Some Allen/Offense Stats

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

This is Nonsense and you know it.

Fair. We don't LIKE to turn the ball over. Josh is just prone to it. I honestly wouldn't even have a problem with turnovers if there was something going on downfield. People keep talking about Allen as a gunslinger; ok; cool. Take chances. Go downfield. But for holy sake, make some things happen. Where is the production?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Fair. We don't LIKE to turn the ball over. Josh is just prone to it. I honestly wouldn't even have a problem with turnovers if there was something going on downfield. People keep talking about Allen as a gunslinger; ok; cool. Take chances. Go downfield. But for holy sake, make some things happen. Where is the production?

1 INT in the last 5 games when he was criticized for playing "hero" ball is a big improvement. He just needs to find the balance.

[whatdrought]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Ok. I'll bite. What does that even mean? Allen may be better than Taylor, but this doesn't make sense.

 

We still suck on offense, but now, we like to turn the ball over as well. That's the difference. 

 

Tyrod was better than Josh has been AT THIS POINT. Facts.

 

It means that on third and long we actually have a chance of picking up the first down with Allen. It happens regularly. The 3rd and 18 against Washington is example of that. Tyrod run offenses never accomplished that. 3rd and over 7 was always a punt coming. 

 

I dont that is a fact. Statistics don’t show the whole story. There have been games won by josh Allen this year and last that TT would not have won. He was better at not turning the ball over, but in a lot of situations he was gunshy about throwing the football. He rarely took chances and that incredibly limited his capacity. 

[Questionable]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

C'mon guys, look at whats happening here!

 

This young QB is being developed by a guy who thought Nathan Peterman should start ahead of him!!! 

 

The entire Bills world wants to see Singletary get the ball more and  what does this brainiac OC do? Has the young, inexperienced QB throw 41 times against a team that is #7 in passing yards allowed along with the #2 sacker in the league.

 

Meanwhile, "Motor" went 8 rushes for 42 yards against a supposed "stacked" defense with a 5.3 yards per carry average. In the first half Allen had 19 passes, Singletary 3 rushes. WTF! 

 

Just pray that this team doesn't get behind in points over the next 7 games! Because this lame OC then forces the QB to carry the team by going pass happy and forgets the run game. He did it a lot last season too. 

 

Not sure where you are getting those stats from.  The Browns rank in the middle of the league in passing  yards allowed.  14th before this weeks game.

[whatdrought]

9 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I think we'd be 7-2 with Tyrod and the facts would back that up. We would have likely beat NE without the TO's.

 

That doesn't matter because anyone with a working brain realizes Tyrod wasn't good enough. But is Allen? I honestly don't think so, but the jury is out more so than it was Taylor as a veteran.

 

Thats what makes the question so dumb. Comparing peak, veteran Tyrod to rookie/second year and still learning Allen. It’s apples and oranges. Josh is father along than everyone thought he’d be through 20 starts. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sundancer said:

 

You must be so happy that you can finally say this! Bully for you.

 

Just don’t ask him how Right Josh’s completion percentage is. 

 

Half this board is still salty that, not only did we pick Wrong Josh, but he’s already much better than Right Josh. The anti-Allen hatred will live well past his retirement and HOF enshrinement.

Edited November 13, 2019 by whatdrought

[ngbills]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

Thats what makes the question so dumb. Comparing peak, veteran Tyrod to rookie/second year and still learning Allen. It’s apples and oranges. Josh is father along than everyone thought he’d be through 20 starts. 

 

 

 

Just don’t ask him how Right Josh’s completion percentage is. 

Who is everyone? I can agree people did not expect instant Brees/Rodgers/Brady. But he still makes some horrible decisions that I would be mad my college QB makes. He misses horribly on some passes that an NFL QB just has to make. Those are the concerns. I am fine with the he needs time angle, but there are basic high school/college level concerns. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Thats what makes the question so dumb. Comparing peak, veteran Tyrod to rookie/second year and still learning Allen. It’s apples and oranges. Josh is father along than everyone thought he’d be through 20 starts. 

Agree the discussion is a futile exercise of hypotheticals. I'd argue that peak veteran Tyrod was not his last 20 starts, but his first 20 (his stats pretty consistently declined, along with our offensive talent). Unfortunately, I think where the discussion stems from is that the offense is not producing. And Tyrod was the QB of our most sustained prolific offense since Kelly. I think we actually set a record for consecutive home games with 20+ points!

 

I want nothing to do with the silliness, but the way to kill it is to put up points and make everyone forget! Here's hoping the fearless unleashing is a step towards making that happen.

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Who is everyone? I can agree people did not expect instant Brees/Rodgers/Brady. But he still makes some horrible decisions that I would be mad my college QB makes. He misses horribly on some passes that an NFL QB just has to make. Those are the concerns. I am fine with the he needs time angle, but there are basic high school/college level concerns. 

 

Everyone who paid attention to his pre-draft assessments that saw him as a project. Mike Mayock, Lance Zierline, Matt Miller, Daniel Jeremiah... ya know, professionals. The same professionals (DJ at least) who say a player needs 48 games before you know what they are. Allen has 20 and he’s shown immense growth. 

 

 

Also, what decisions are you referring to? He’s been pretty clean the past 5 or so games. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by whatdrought

[Real McClappy]

This thread seems about right.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Questionable said:

 

Not sure where you are getting those stats from.  The Browns rank in the middle of the league in passing  yards allowed.  14th before this weeks game.

 

 

They haven't had Ward and Greedy most of the season.  

 

This point will not be discussed in low info Buffalo sports media however.  

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Lazy takes by Sullivan.

For Ty Dunne, want to know stats on 30+ air yard passes and 20+ air yard passes for other QBs before I get all bothered.

 

 

zero point zero

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

Everyone who paid attention to his pre-draft assessments that saw him as a project. Mike Mayock, Lance Zierline, Matt Miller, Daniel Jeremiah... ya know, professionals. The same professionals (DJ at least) who say a player needs 48 games before you know what they are. Allen has 20 and he’s shown immense growth. 

 

 

Also, what decisions are you referring to? He’s been pretty clean the past 5 or so games. 

 

 

Yea but Howard "it has to be Rosen" Simon told me this morning he's going to know for sure at the end of this season whether Josh is "the answer."

 

The only way he's not coming back next season is if he completely implodes and even then he's going to be here.  Will a vet come in and Josh have to compete in this scenario (that I don't see happening) sure its possible.  

 

Critics can't handle they may have been wrong about him.  Would rather he fail so they can say "we told you so" and are refusing to be objective.  

 

Of course he isn't playing great.  Does he show he doesn't belong on the field?  Absolutely friggin not.  There is plenty here to be encouraged about it and they could, if their egos let them, harp on those things (need a #1, get more from the running game, get a more urgent aggressive mind set on O, throw more slants to our big boddi....oh never mind) rather than immediately want to kick him to the curb. 

 

 

Howard had the audacity to say this morning that he was very happy with Josh's development thru mid October.  That's a crock.  He has NEVER led that morning show in the first 7 weeks with anything good to say about the QB.  He posted a twitter poll 3 weeks or so ago asking what are you more concerned with going forward the D or the O.  We were 5-1 at the time.  And since BOTH have either flatlined (the O) or completely fell off (D).  

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Questionable said:

 

Not sure where you are getting those stats from.  The Browns rank in the middle of the league in passing  yards allowed.  14th before this weeks game.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2019.htm

 

Lg Rank Defense	21	17			26	20	12		7	7	22	26	15		24	27	15	28						23	27	18

 

 

Also, ESPN has them at 6th in passing yards allowed,

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/table/passing/sort/netPassingYards/dir/asc

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I mean.... he's completed ZERO of them.... do you really need any other qb's numbers for enough context to see that's pretty bad? I don't need to see other qb's stats there to be bothered by the fact that it seems allen cant hit the broad side of a barn from 30+..... and FTR i'm cool with allen.

 

 

How dare you grasp Ralphs' sacred crank in that avatar and then send negative vibes thru your keyboard with that same hand about this franchise!    What kind of Bills fan art thou?! 

[Putin]

3 hours ago, ngbills said:

Confusion...

Tyrod did play with KB as his best WR and a worse OL (Mills, Ducasse and rookie Dawkins).

And just like a seasoned politician you conveniently (forgot?) about Eric Wood and Incognito 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Putin

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Z-Mann said:

 

GREAT points.  Coaching does not and should not escape criticism.  Ultimately I feel like a great QB can overcome questionable coaching to at least be "average" (or an outlier like Aaron Rodgers, be excellent), but I am not sure if we have the leadership in place to get the best out of Allen.  I also feel like they aren't THAT bad which is contributing to him being one of the worst in the league.

Thanks. 

 

Look at last season to see that while Josh Allen's completion percentage was an abysmal 52.8% and he was more of a gunslinger in taking chances with a 10 passing TDs, 12 Interceptions. Meanwhile, Allen was hitting a lot of deep passes. In fact, the Buffalo Bills led the league in deep passes. Allen's win/loss record was 5-6.

 

This season the deep passes are almost nonexistent while Allen is hitting more shorter passes. QB record of 6-3 and has thrown for 1919 yards 10 TDs, 7 INTs with a better completion percentage and QBR. 

 

Its my take that while Allen is in a more controlled QB in a sort of game manager type role this season. But this scheme is not him and not allowing him to be his best self and I think its holding him back.

 

What I'm saying here is this OC is calling plays like he has that experienced QB behind center instead of a young inexperienced QB who needs an offense / QB guru that will allow him to develop into an elite QB. Daboll "might" be a good enough OC if he had an elite franchise QB. However, no QB is going to do well being forced to carry the team without a run game support like we saw against the Redskins. Teams need a balanced attack and especially teams with young, inexperienced QBs. 

 

Allen's win/loss record is 6-3 with many games he needed to make a comeback drive to win the game. I don't see him as being one of the worst in the league because he is 22nd in passing yards. 

[Boca BIlls]

9 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

I'm guessing this is your analysis because that is not what I her when listening to people who understand the game way more than me.  Unless I'm missing information about your credentials than just a fan

That is the credentials of those people you listen to just FYI.

[ganesh]

11 hours ago, Virgil said:

Do with these what you will

 

 

 

 

 

Apples to Oranges comparison...Tyrod was a 5year veteran when he joined the Bills....JA is a rookie who was thrown to the wolves.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

7 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Apples to Oranges comparison...Tyrod was a 5year veteran when he joined the Bills....JA is a rookie who was thrown to the wolves.

....And did not play for a Power 5 team with a high powered passing attack, like Oklahoma or Texas Tech. He lacks experience, is raw but improving, and is learning at the NFL what some of these guys experienced in college. Let's give the player some patience, he has a lot of positive characteristics.

[transplantbillsfan]

Part of this is just a coaching problem, plain and simple.

 

McDermott coaches conservative. I would love for his comments today to his team about "play(ing) fearless" to be an indicator of some serious systemic changes on offense, but I'm fearFUL it won't be.

[T master]

Found this to chew on Allens ranking slipping but the writer has some sound thoughts at the end of the article !! I hope Dabol reads this stuff ...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001076653/article/veteran-qb-market-top-10-potentially-available-passers-in-2020

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:32 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Lazy takes by Sullivan.

For Ty Dunne, want to know stats on 30+ air yard passes and 20+ air yard passes for other QBs before I get all bothered.

 

...huh?...I'm terribly confused....always thought the OBD "White Smoke" meant Jerry was the "Pope of Bills Football".....SMH....

[PolishDave]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:22 AM, BillsRdue said:

 

He designed an offense to play to his QB's strengths and now is doing it in Baltimore. 

 

 

No he didn't.   He ran his run first offense like he always has.  They just got a QB who could run too.   You are giving him credit where it isn't due.   Roman is the best run game coach  in the NFL.    But he didn't modify his offense in a way that best suited anybody.   He would run the same damn offense with Tom Brady as QB.   That, unfortunately, is his biggest drawback as a coach.

[Mat68]

Taylor was at his peak. He was 25 or 26.  Sat behind a Superbowl MVP for 5 years.  Allen isnt 23 yet and is similar to the best Qb Buffalo had since Kelly mid way through year 2?  No Allen isnt Kelly.  If Taylor led 4th quarter comebacks or was tops in the league in Redzone TD efficiency Taylors still the Qb in Buffalo.  I get it losing to Cleveland hurt.  There is no way you watched the game Sunday and blame Allen for the loss.  No way.  The offense went conservative, Hauscka missed 2 FGs. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

6 hours ago, PolishDave said:

He would run the same damn offense with Tom Brady as QB.   That, unfortunately, is his biggest drawback as a coach.

This part I can't buy. I agree he is a great run game coach, but he uses running QB's as part of it, so it is part of his design. He's tearing it up in Baltimore and I think he'd do the same in Buffalo with our current group, much better than DaBoll.

[CorkScrewHill]

A really nice, unbiased (though a bit more positive) review of Josh Allen vs Browns .. some good .. some bad. The missed deep ball to Isaiah in particular  thought was interesting as it looked like an overthrow, but Isaiah was just lost.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by CorkScrewHill

[ILBillsfan]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:45 PM, whatdrought said:

 

It means that on third and long we actually have a chance of picking up the first down with Allen. It happens regularly. The 3rd and 18 against Washington is example of that. Tyrod run offenses never accomplished that. 3rd and over 7 was always a punt coming. 

 

I dont that is a fact. Statistics don’t show the whole story. There have been games won by josh Allen this year and last that TT would not have won. He was better at not turning the ball over, but in a lot of situations he was gunshy about throwing the football. He rarely took chances and that incredibly limited his capacity. 

yep been a long time since I can remember when the bills where in a first in long to a third in long that I think the Bills have a chance at picking up the first.  So many QBS 3rd and 8...three yard pass more frustrating than throwing it 10 yards and missing

[ILBillsfan]

2 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

A really nice, unbiased (though a bit more positive) review of Josh Allen vs Browns .. some good .. some bad. The missed deep ball to Isaiah in particular  thought was interesting as it looked like an overthrow, but Isaiah was just lost.

 

more people need to watch these guys

[Locomark]

On 11/13/2019 at 9:34 AM, Stank_Nasty said:

I mean.... he's completed ZERO of them.... do you really need any other qb's numbers for enough context to see that's pretty bad? I don't need to see other qb's stats there to be bothered by the fact that it seems allen cant hit the broad side of a barn from 30+..... and FTR i'm cool with allen.

To compare with other QBs, Let’s pair that with other meaningful stats like the number of drops or How about the # of catches in the careers of the people he is throwing to, or the catch % of those players, or the indoor versus outdoor of those throws,etc. 

 

i am not saying he shouldn’t be better. He defiantly must be. However,  I have been at games this year watching Zay Jones and Robert Foster both stop running and then later dove for passes where had they kept running through the ball, as taught in pop warner, they would have had TDs. Those guys shouldn’t even be on the field. That is part of the issue. The other part is clearly McD’s obsession with no turnovers which means Allen is now poorly conditioned for overthrows to avoid them at all costs. The reality is they should be working on lots of deep ball placement at least one full practice period per week but McD probably has them working on dump offs to the FB instead. Yes Daboll is the OC but he reports to McD. McD owns fixing it. If he was meant to be a defensive coach only he should be a DC and not a HC.  

 

[ILBillsfan]

19 minutes ago, Locomark said:

To compare with other QBs, Let’s pair that with other meaningful stats like the number of drops or How about the # of catches in the careers of the people he is throwing to, or the catch % of those players, or the indoor versus outdoor of those throws,etc. 

 

i am not saying he shouldn’t be better. He defiantly must be. However,  I have been at games this year watching Zay Jones and Robert Foster both stop running and then later dove for passes where had they kept running through the ball, as taught in pop warner, they would have had TDs. Those guys shouldn’t even be on the field. That is part of the issue. The other part is clearly McD’s obsession with no turnovers which means Allen is now poorly conditioned for overthrows to avoid them at all costs. The reality is they should be working on lots of deep ball placement at least one full practice period per week but McD probably has them working on dump offs to the FB instead. Yes Daboll is the OC but he reports to McD. McD owns fixing it. If he was meant to be a defensive coach only he should be a DC and not a HC.  

 

you should watch that video on the McKenzie overthrow that was more on the WR than Josh but knee jerk reactions are easier than actually watching the all 22 film

[Locomark]

1 minute ago, ILBillsfan said:

you should watch that video on the McKenzie overthrow that was more on the WR than Josh but knee jerk reactions are easier than actually watching the all 22 film

Saw it and agree. And Lofton called out Foster the other week during the broadcast on a deep post where he slowed down, and shouldn’t have which would have went for big yards. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Locomark

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

A really nice, unbiased (though a bit more positive) review of Josh Allen vs Browns .. some good .. some bad. The missed deep ball to Isaiah in particular  thought was interesting as it looked like an overthrow, but Isaiah was just lost.

 

 

Thanks.  That was a great video.

[DuckyBoys]

Taylor padded his stats taking a 2 yard check down on 3rd and 15 He also played a ton better before McDermott took over  He would at least take chances along the boundaries for big plays in 1-1's  He never worked the middle of the field. His low int totals are directly linked to him not throwing the ball past the marker and into tight windows.  Some of the routine throws Allen makes Tyrod would never even try.  Looking at a qbr rating is not the same as watching the actual plays  A qb could take short checkdowns that dont have a chance at a first down and have a high qbr.  I dont know if Josh Allen will ever be a top qb but I do have my doubts if it can happen under Mcdermott.  It would help if they gave Josh a elite talent on offense to feed the ball to

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 11/13/2019 at 8:39 AM, Z-Mann said:

As Bills fans, we have something that no other fan has for Allen - faith.  Faith that he will be "the guy" and is capable of carrying the offense on his back when needed.

 

I agree with a lot of what you are pointing out. As to faith, one of the reasons we have faith is we have already seen Allen carry the offense when it is needed at the end of games. We know he is capable of this and he hasn't even finished his second full season yet. We have good reason to have faith in his abilities up to this point.

 

The other thing that makes us gravitate towards  Allen is how different he is from past Bills QB's. With the exception of Fitzpatrick all the other recent QB's were gun shy game manager types. Josh Allen is most definitely not that. And for better or worst this early in his development, that is a huge breath of fresh air for most of us fans. He's been so close to having a couple of ridiculously good highlight reel throws already in his young career. The one last year @ Miami that would have won the game. And then he had one earlier this year, can't remember against who, but it looked like a play Mahomes would have made, faking a run and then pulling up late to throw a pass to the end zone near the pylon. I think the defender broke it up. Both in-completions but I like the mindset that he plays with.

 

I do think absent all or most of his 4QC and GW drives most all of us would be quite a bit more salty on Allen than we currently are. But he stepped up in some big moments. Now we just need to see if Allen and the offense can put things together more consistently for 60 minutes so we can beat teams like the Bengals and Dolphins by 17-20 instead of with comebacks in the 4th quarter. 

[dakrider]

3 hours ago, ILBillsfan said:

you should watch that video on the McKenzie overthrow that was more on the WR than Josh but knee jerk reactions are easier than actually watching the all 22 film

 

yeah that was very informative.  McKenzie looked twice outside over his right shoulder when definitely should have been looking only over his left inside shoulder.  That makes no sense at all why he would even do that.  Only way he should be doing that is if he is running towards sideline and he clearly wasn't.  Allen has had some poor throws on deep balls but I'm not sure the Bills receivers even know how to run a deep route either as there's been a few where they seem to stop running or looking the wrong way or just giving up on the play.  

[Scott7975]

This is a stat I have just seen.  Not sure if it's already been posted.  I apologize if so.

 

Quote

Allen is completing 64.4% of passes traveling 10-20 yards (seventh in the NFL) this season.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

20 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

This is a stat I have just seen.  Not sure if it's already been posted.  I apologize if so.

 

 

I posted the tweet 1 page back.  
 

no one else seemed to care much.  
 

Seems like posting bad stats gets more attention lol ? 

it also listed this

 

Josh Allen ranks second on this @ESPN quarterbacks list: http://bufbills.co/ESFyO8

Edited November 16, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Behindenemylines]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:22 AM, BillsRdue said:

 

The truly sad part is that Roman had Tyrod playing his best football. He designed an offense to play to his QB's strengths and now is doing it in Baltimore. We fire him while Rex ruins a great Schwartz defense.  McD comes in and blows up the offense, while hiring an OC that plays to the QB's weaknesses.  I have no doubt Josh could be doing what Lamar is doing and more in the right offense.

 

This conservative ball coddling, sack of sh*t offense is holding everyone else down. Don't tell me Baltimore has more playmakers on offense than us. It's a wash. It's just this horrible offensive "wannabe-a-patriot" bulls*t that's screwing up what could be a great season.  TBD posters are right!  Unleash the F'Kin Kracken!

 

I agree!!!  Unleash that F’en Kracken and let’s destroy the whole lot of ‘em.   

 

Ive been screaming this at the TV all season

[cd1]

On 11/13/2019 at 10:49 AM, The Frankish Reich said:

Mr Silver Lining sez: I guess the good news is that Allen’s overall mediocre performance shows that he’s become quite an efficient short/medium range passer. Remember the knock on him was he’d air it out on the run and complete ridiculous passes way down field but then wildly miss on short passes and dinks and dunks ...

Daboll is creating a mobile Trent Edwards! (Maybe that’s not such a bad thing?)

 

 

OR - 

 

Josh Allen has spent the entire off-season AND pre-season working solely on the shorter, intermediate throws and has not developed any timing on deep routes with his new receivers...