Has the bills offense shown any improvement from week 1 until now?

[uticaclub]

I think we have already seen Allen's ceiling, it's pretty low. You overcome being outcoached if you have talent & a franchise QB, we have neither. We have a process. 

[BananaB]

11 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Ravens went to AFC Championship his rookie season.  Couldn't have been that bad.

A big part of it had to to with a great D and a solid run game. Flacco was  far from good his rookie season, he did improve in his second season, but was still not a finished product then. 
 

You could also put Eli on that list in my opinion. 
 

Some QBs struggle some don’t, they are all different players in different situations. There is a lot we don’t see on a day to day basis with these guys.  Allen rookie season was a terrible setting for him, that’s why almost everybody who surrounded him isn’t on the team anymore. He’s showed improvement, completion percentage up, yards per game up, INTs starting to go down.  I like how he plays his best football in the fourth quarter. Bills fans are just so desperate for the the answer they have no patience and pick every little aspect of his game apart. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by BananaB

[reddogblitz]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

 I like how he plays his best football in the fourth quarter.

 

I agree but he certainly did not yesterday.  He had several opportunities to win in the 4th  but came up short each time.

[Big Turk]

Not really if i am being honest.

[gobills1212]

11 hours ago, Steptide said:

This is the most frustrating thing for me. We're listening to the coaches say week after week how they have to get better and score more points. After last week, I kind of thought they were starting to figure it out using singletary more, but here we are again. I like that the bills wanna be a passing team, I don't want a run first offense, but there has to be a good balance. I'm really curious what the coaches are doing during the week to make the offense better. I have seen almost no difference between week 1 and week 10 when it comes to the offense 

I dont know, but ive learned when people ask questions in their title if you click on the topic they arent really ASKING... but theyll answer their own question!! It seems the answer is no;)

Edited November 12, 2019 by gobills1212

[BananaB]

17 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I agree but he certainly did not yesterday.  He had several opportunities to win in the 4th  but came up short each time.

He put us ahead and then put us in position for a FG try. I think that’s pretty solid. 

[jrober38]

59 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I would add Alex Smith to that list.  But can't think of any others.

 

I dunno if he was ever elite but fine.

 

He turned into a decent pro but pretty much every team he played for was looking to replace him which goes to show how high their regard of him was. 

 

Otherwise that's it. What you get at the end of year 2 is typically what you'll get in the future. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Nope.  In fact we've regressed.  Things that work, such as Singletary with the ball and going to Beasley, appear to be afterthoughts these days.  Plus things that can be exceptionally effective, such as play action, screens, and throws to running backs we've basically ignored.

[Augie]

Josh’s interceptions are trending down. Sure bring up something else, like fumbles. OR, just wait until next week when my jinx makes him throw 4. Oops! 

 

But seriously, he’s throwing balls away that used to be bad throws into pressure....resulting in picks.  The question was “any improvement”, so the answer is “yes”. That’s going to disappoint some people. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

In some ways it has in others it has not. 

I’d rank it about the same. It feels worse than it is because I was expecting it to progress through out the season. Still hoping! 

[DJB]

Two words. 

 

Brian Daboll. 

[Steptide]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

Josh’s interceptions are trending down. Sure bring up something else, like fumbles. OR, just wait until next week when my jinx makes him throw 4. Oops! 

 

But seriously, he’s throwing balls away that used to be bad throws into pressure....resulting in picks.  The question was “any improvement”, so the answer is “yes”. That’s going to disappoint some people. 

I agree with you on that. However, I'd rather see a more risk taking offense than a conservative one. I dont want Allen playing hero ball all the time, but some creativity on offense would be nice. The jet sweep seems to work well for the bills (which we ran alot against the redskins) but then only ran it like once yesterday. Just frustrating 

[Tcali]

11 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

The lack of success on deep passes tells me they don’t practice them enough. Those should be almost automatic when they are open. Watching Rodgers yesterday, he makes it look so easy to just throw a deep ball his guy can make a play on. Seems like Josh is all over the map in his trajectories on those throws. Coaches should be working with him to get the optimal trajectories on each type of deep throw. It’s disconcerting that our guys can’t even get a finger on these throws. They clearly aren’t giving enough attention to this area.

so in other words teach a QB how to throw a football from scratch. never gonna happen.

[Augie]

Just now, Steptide said:

I agree with you on that. However, I'd rather see a more risk taking offense than a conservative one. I dont want Allen playing hero ball all the time, but some creativity on offense would be nice. The jet sweep seems to work well for the bills (which we ran alot against the redskins) but then only ran it like once yesterday. Just frustrating 

 

As I’ve said, I’m not the pink slip kind of guy. I don’t want to have to start all over again from scratch. I’d rather fix what we have and do it better and smarter. BUT, I think 41 pass attempts and 14 hand offs is not all that conservative, or smart. If we had twice as many run plays and some more balance in the attack, maybe we could work some jet sweeps in? 

[Tesla03]

we should just let Allen play his game and scramble. he obviously isn't improving throwing from the pocket. 

 

he was arguably better at the end of last season than any game this year. 

[jrober38]

20 minutes ago, DJB said:

Two words. 

 

Brian Daboll. 

 

Not the best, but Allen is struggling badly to execute the offense.

 

Daboll often schemes guys open, and Allen either doesn't find them or doesn't hit them. 

[billsfan89]

Josh and the offense have improved at not making turnover worthy plays. I think the offense has made progress but they do lack a consistent identity. 

[Lfod]

I had more fun watching the Bills lose to the Browns than I did watching the Bills lose the Jaguars in the playoffs. 

 

I'm just a casual fan and I just want to be entertained. I am more entertained with the offense now than I was before. At least some plays happened to get excited about. 

 

I agree that flaws do exist. I see people in the first and second half threads of every game leaving those reminders. People just hoping that the Bills will lose so the world will be convinced that the Bills suck. 

 

I'm just riding out the year hoping for the best. I don't understand how people can enjoy the games if they already have thier minds made up that the Bills suck. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Lfod

[billspro]

15 hours ago, beacon said:

No difference to me. Dump OC now. I vote for hurry-up with 4 wide, Singletay lone back and let it rip. Let Allen scramble/run all he wants. Just slide!!!!!!

 

Are you sure it’s an OC issue? Seems more like a talent issue to me. It’s hard to find a worse WR core and RB core than ours and the oline is average. All of those groups are much more talented than the 2018 crew though.

[Fixxxer]

32 minutes ago, Lfod said:

I had more fun watching the Bills lose to the Browns than I did watching the Bills lose the Jaguars in the playoffs. 

 

I'm just a casual fan and I just want to be entertained. I am more entertained with the offense now than I was before. At least some plays happened to get excited about. 

 

I agree that flaws do exist. I see people in the first and second half threads of every game leaving those reminders. People just hoping that the Bills will lose so the world will be convinced that the Bills suck. 

 

I'm just riding out the year hoping for the best. I don't understand how people can enjoy the games if they already have thier minds made up that the Bills suck. 

 

 

 

Some will call your post naive, but I like it.

 

In the off-season fans yelled they wanted a modern offense, passing in the NFL is the way to win games, ground and pound is for dinosaurs or for toe lickers, your offense needs to be innovative. After a couple 40 pass attempt games, people are convinced they need to be a running football.

 

I hate that we lost Sunday. I feel every part of the team had a low point in the game where they caused this to be an L in the column.

 

The offense lacks rhythm because we have a second year raw product trying to develop as a franchise QB, people complain about Daboll, but you see people open in passing game, then you see this offense is very prolific in the redzone (we rank 2nd in scoring percentage there) but the bottom line this offense needs to score more points as the defense needs to force more turnovers. Every aspect of this team can still get better.

 

 

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

We’ve gotten a little bit better passing but worse at running. 

[Boatdrinks]

One could argue they were making more big plays earlier in the year. The coaches have drilled the “ don’t throw INTs “ mantra into Allen, but that’s meant a more conservative offense. The big plays have dropped off a lot the last 4 or 5 games. Some of that is also defenses catching up , and Daboll hasn’t done much to counter. The offense has actually gotten worse. 

[Augie]

16 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

We’ve gotten a little bit better passing but worse at running. 

 

Maybe we should try it a bit more? THAT is certainly a problem. It’s not that it hasn’t worked, we just refuse to try! We had 41 passes to 14 handoffs, against the 30th ranked run defense. Singletary was averaging 5.2 ypc. I don’t get it. 

 

 

.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Augie

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

One could argue they were making more big plays earlier in the year. The coaches have drilled the “ don’t throw INTs “ mantra into Allen, but that’s meant a more conservative offense. The big plays have dropped off a lot the last 4 or 5 games. Some of that is also defenses catching up , and Daboll hasn’t done much to counter. The offense has actually gotten worse. 

We are playing not to lose instead of playing to win and this is what happens 

[reddogblitz]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Maybe we should try it a bit more? THAT is certainly a problem. It’s not that it hasn’t worked, we just refuse to try! We had 41 passes to 14 handoffs, against the 30th ranked run defense. I don’t get it. 

 

Singletay averaged 5.4 yards per carry on the 8 carries he got. So it wasn't like the run game wasn't working.

[Augie]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

Singletay averaged 5.4 yards per carry on the 8 carries he got. So it wasn't like the run game wasn't working.

 

....and we were not down by 20. That was not our finest hour of play calling. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I know this O has potential to do good things consistently and with an aggressive spirit, but for whatever reason Dabs has seen fit to outsmart himself by not featuring Singletary despite the fact no one has proven capable of actually stopping him yet! He’s the key to unlocking the deeper, longer developing route trees of 30+ yds that we haven’t seen gel yet, imho. Give him the freaking ball and then pounce on play action/screens when the rush over pursues/plays the run gaps—how is this rocket wizardry again? I’ll be the first to admit I’ve vacillated on Daboll going from the fire bandwagon early last year to being stoked he was sticking around for this year, to now wondering what is going on with his apparent Andy Reid-like distaste for the run, but without the timely screen attack that Reid could substitute with. 

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, jrober38 said:

Absolutely not.

 

We have an extremely limited QB, who has never led a prolific offense at any point in his life. 

 

The notion he was going to develop into a top NFL QB never made any sense.

 

Our offensive coordinator is also not functioning properly. Why don't we run the ball more? Why is Lee Smith ever on the field?

 

 

 

Yeah, you're right, QBs never get better. Oh, wait ...

 

That's a stunningly dumb take. Some QBs get better. Some don't. The idea in your post that doesn't make sense is that Allen can't develop into a very good NFL QB. He might, or might not. It's too early to know.

 

And as for your other brilliant take here, that Josh "has never led a prolific offense at any point in his life," you've found yet another way to increase the wrongness out there in the world. The 2016 Wyoming Cowboys, who had a fairly decent cast on offense around Josh, only averaged 37.6 points per game during their 12 games. Who could ever call that prolific, except anyone with a brain?

 

 

8 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Brees, Eli and Stafford are the only first round QBs who struggled their first two seasons who went on to become franchise guys.

 

That's the extent of the list.

 

 

 

More wrongness to a startling degree.

 

I'd put up Hall of Famer Terry Bradshaw's first two years stats but people wouldn't believe how awful they were. Suffice it to say he threw two and a half times as many INTs as TDs. Troy Aikman threw nearly twice as many INTs as TDs his first two years, 36 INTs to 20 TDs. Aaron Rodgers was awful his first three years at camp. Take a look at his preseason stats. Carson Palmer wasn't awful, but he sure struggled, a year on the bench and then 18 TDs and 18 INTs his second year.

 

And what round a guy was drafted in has no bearing. The only thing that does is limit the number of names that are eligible, to make it easier to make your dumb argument. There are plenty of guys who were bad for more than two years and then became franchise guys. What round they were picked in is beside the point. Some guys who aren't good enough at the beginning become good enough.

 

Alex Smith. Tony Romo. Kurt Warner couldn't even get in the league for four years and it was his third year before he was good. Jake Delhomme. Chad Pennington, who would've been a Hall of Famer without those shoulder injuries. Mark Rypien couldn't get on the field his first three years and would've been an HOFer if not for what we now know was a terrible concussion that destroyed his career. Kirk Cousins couldn't get on the field much his first three years but when he did he was bad, with 19 INTs and 18 TDs.

 

I could - very easily - go on.

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Chandler#81]

10 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

You say of course there's been improvement but you don't mention where.  Mostly you just made excuses.  Are we scoring more points?  Gaining more yards?  Getting more first downs?

 

The only thing I could point to is Josh hasn't made any ill advised passes into a crowd like he did last year and earlier this year in the last few games.

 

I'm pleased as punch we're 6-3 and hats off to team for that.  However our offense looks as bad as ever.  Unless I'm missing something.  Help out a bills brother and tell me what please.

 

You don't get a pass because players aren't good enough. they are the ones the coaches picked.

What cocktail of drugs are you on??

If your mind was clear, you’d know the Bills have settled on Feliciano & Nsehke for the Right side of the OL, Knox as starting TE, Singletary @ RB and J. Phillips @ 3technique. That’s an improvement over Feliciano/Ford-Ford/Nsehke combos, Sweeney/Smith @TE & Oliver. The complete makeover on OL, TE, WR & RB (sans DiMarco) rooms are growing stronger by the Eye Test every week. I already spoke to the Ever-improving team continuity evident from the 9 new players on Offense. But I get the impression these team improvements don’t sate your appetite nor your gloom & doom agenda, so here’s a few Stats -which I know are candy for the ‘I wanna be right in my disgust’ crowd.

 

Avg. Total Yards per game Pre-Bye 275. Post-Bye 340

Avg. 1st Downs Pre-Bye 16. Post-Bye 20.25

Avg. Pass Yards Against Pre-Bye 187.2. Post Bye 172

Turnovers/Avg. per game Pre-Bye 11/2.2. Post Bye 1/0.25

 

Is it a complete team? No, and they won’t be at any time this year. But they’re incrementally improving each week.

 

Seriously, the drugs. What are they and where can I get some??

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Considering we were down to the jets 16 points, yes.

 

every game isnt going to be better than the next but what we really need to do is run more and then we will have more games like the Redskins victory.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Considering we were down to the jets 16 points, yes.

 

every game isnt going to be better than the next but what we really need to do is run more and then we will have more games like the Redskins victory.

 

 

Especially with the weather turning. 

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

What cocktail of drugs are you on??

If your mind was clear, you’d know the Bills have settled on Feliciano & Nsehke for the Right side of the OL, Knox as starting TE, Singletary @ RB and J. Phillips @ 3technique. That’s an improvement over Feliciano/Ford-Ford/Nsehke combos, Sweeney/Smith @TE & Oliver. The complete makeover on OL, TE, WR & RB (sans DiMarco) rooms are growing stronger by the Eye Test every week. I already spoke to the Ever-improving team continuity evident from the 9 new players on Offense. But I get the impression these team improvements don’t sate your appetite nor your gloom & doom agenda, so here’s a few Stats -which I know are candy for the ‘I wanna be right in my disgust’ crowd.

 

Avg. Total Yards per game Pre-Bye 275. Post-Bye 340

Avg. 1st Downs Pre-Bye 16. Post-Bye 20.25

Avg. Pass Yards Against Pre-Bye 187.2. Post Bye 172

Turnovers/Avg. per game Pre-Bye 11/2.2. Post Bye 1/0.25

 

Is it a complete team? No, and they won’t be at any time this year. But they’re incrementally improving each week.

 

Seriously, the drugs. What are they and where can I get some??

 

 

Thanks for clarifying your position. You make some good points.  I had mentioned the fewer turn overs, but that's OK.  One you didn't mention which is important is points pre per game. Pre bye - 18. Post bye - 22.  Wins are down however. 4-1 pre bye, 2-2 post bye. 

 

So, some improvements, but all in all still not very good.  Would you agree?

 

Maybe we just have a difference in opinion which is fine.

 

But really, is all the condescending insulting stuff I bolded necessary?  

[Chandler#81]

51 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Thanks for clarifying your position. You make some good points.  I had mentioned the fewer turn overs, but that's OK.  One you didn't mention which is important is points pre per game. Pre bye - 18. Post bye - 22.  Wins are down however. 4-1 pre bye, 2-2 post bye. 

 

So, some improvements, but all in all still not very good.  Would you agree?

 

Maybe we just have a difference in opinion which is fine.

 

But really, is all the condescending insulting stuff I bolded necessary?  

Drug reference was a joke. As for snark, it was retaliatory. You jumped all over my post, bashing it and demanding more evidence to sooth your bleeding heart. You just found a willing combatant and I’m better at it. 

No, I don’t agree that all in all the Bills aren’t very good. 6-3 says they are. Regardless of many opinions here on the quality of our opponents this season, they are all established NFL Clubs with solid ownership, rabid fan bases, high expectations held to League mandates on structure, Draft sequence and salaries. The quality of players are equal from New England to Cincinnati and it’s hardy been more evident than this year. It comes down to what teams do with their 53 players. We are winning at a 2-1 clip. We’re doing well. We can do better.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Avg. Total Yards per game Pre-Bye 275. Post-Bye 340

Avg. 1st Downs Pre-Bye 16. Post-Bye 20.25

Avg. Pass Yards Against Pre-Bye 187.2. Post Bye 172

Turnovers/Avg. per game Pre-Bye 11/2.2. Post Bye 1/0.25

 

Good stuff; thanks for posting.

 

I'm sure the stats for our defense pre vs. post bye will not be as impressive.

 

I know Daboll is taking a beating right now and I think it's warranted.  But you are correct ... this is not a bad team.  We just need to get better.  I think we have the right players on the roster (not the best; just the right ones for right now); this coaching staff needs to put its collective EGO aside and put these players in the right positions/scenarios.

 

Stop keeping Lee ***** Smith active just because he's "your kind of guy," (McDermott).  Stop keeping Duke on the sidelines when Josh might actually benefit from a big target who actually fights for the ball because he's hungry.

 

I'll stop there.

 

The offense has clearly improved, but needs to (and can) improve more.

The defense has clearly regressed.

The coaches need to stop being so rigid and stubborn ... and fix the problems.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Consistency is what we are lacking--we DO have sufficient personnel in place to run an efficient and well oiled offensive machine--the proof of that is when things have been clicking in spurts, such as Josh's 4th Q league-topping ratings and at other times where the Bills look unstoppable, in rhythm and marching down the field for 75+ yard scoring drives--the issue is when those sorts of drives are followed up with sad 3 and out duds, too often and make our D's margin for error that much more "living on the edge." I do feel like those issues are fixable--but it starts at the top and that has just not been good enough in our losses, particularly against a Browns team that was doing everything in its power to still give away the game to us.  

[reddogblitz]

18 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

You say of course there's been improvement but you don't mention where.  Mostly you just made excuses.  Are we scoring more points?  Gaining more yards?  Getting more first downs?

 

The only thing I could point to is Josh hasn't made any ill advised passes into a crowd like he did last year and earlier this year in the last few games.

 

I'm pleased as punch we're 6-3 and hats off to team for that.  However our offense looks as bad as ever.  Unless I'm missing something.  Help out a bills brother and tell me what please.

 

You don't get a pass because players aren't good enough. they are the ones the coaches picked.

 

5 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Drug reference was a joke. As for snark, it was retaliatory. You jumped all over my post, bashing it and demanding more evidence to sooth your bleeding heart. You just found a willing combatant and I’m better at it. 

No, I don’t agree that all in all the Bills aren’t very good. 6-3 says they are. Regardless of many opinions here on the quality of our opponents this season, they are all established NFL Clubs with solid ownership, rabid fan bases, high expectations held to League mandates on structure, Draft sequence and salaries. The quality of players are equal from New England to Cincinnati and it’s hardy been more evident than this year. It comes down to what teams do with their 53 players. We are winning at a 2-1 clip. We’re doing well. We can do better.

 

I quoted my original snarky post.  Sorry if it came off that way,.  I did say i was pleased as punch we are 6-3. Is that not good enough to still be considered a Bills fan?  I'll put my Bills fan manhood against yours any day.  I am a season ticket holder. I live in on the west coast and fly to Buffalo for at least 2 games a year and will be coming back if we have a home playoff game.  I pay for Sunday NFL Ticket so I can watch ALL the games.  What do you do besides insult fellow Bills fan on TBD that have a different opinion than you?

 

I asked you to clarify a statement you made. Don't make 'em if you don't want to be asked to back them up.  You did.  Thanks.

 

Your drug jokes were funny, I guess.

 

But yes, I am not happy with our offensive production.  Sorry if that offends you.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Go BILLS !!

Edited November 12, 2019 by reddogblitz

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

 

I quoted my original snarky post.  Sorry if it came off that way,.  I did say i was pleased as punch we are 6-3. Is that not good enough to still be considered a Bills fan?  I'll put my Bills fan manhood against yours any day.  I am a season ticket holder. I live in on the west coast and fly to Buffalo for at least 2 games a year and will be coming back if we have a home playoff game.  I pay for Sunday NFL Ticket so I can watch ALL the games.  What do you do besides insult fellow Bills fan on TBD that have a different opinion than you?

 

I asked you to clarify a statement you made. Don't make 'em if you don't want to be asked to back them up.  You did.  Thanks.

 

But yes, I am not happy with our offensive production.  Sorry if that offends you.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Go BILLS !!

 

You weren't actually going for less-snarky, here, were you?

[reddogblitz]

8 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

You weren't actually going for less-snarky, here, were you?

 

Over and out.

 

Have fun.

 

go BILLS !!

[Socal-805]

 

 

No.

 

 

[NewEra]

They look much worse to me.  
 

give me gunslinger Josh over complacent wuss josh every day of the week.  Might as well turn him into Lamar Jackson and let him run every other play.  We have a better chance of moving the chains.