Jim Kelly (93) vs Josh Allen (19)

[wppete]

 

 

[blacklabel]

That's neat. It's just that standards for the passing game have elevated so much since '93. Back then, yeah, Kelly's stats looked good. Today, people look at Allen's identical stats and think, "He a bum!" I think he'll get there, though.

[Real McClappy]

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

yeah but   Jim never won anything   We need better 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/ sarc  

[transplantbillsfan]

3 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

That's neat. It's just that standards for the passing game have elevated so much since '93. Back then, yeah, Kelly's stats looked good. Today, people look at Allen's identical stats and think, "He a bum!" I think he'll get there, though.

 

Back then Kelly's stats looked good?

 

How old are you?

[Seasons1992]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

yeah but   Jim never won anything   We need better 

 

[Real McClappy]

Forecast:

 

60.9 comp %

3306 passing yds

20TDs

14ints

494 rushing yds

8 rushing TDs

 

That's not a bad 2nd year for a QB

 

[Bangarang]

Anytime someone compares QB stats to one from nearly 3 decades ago I know they are an idiot.

 

What should we take from this?

Edited November 5, 2019 by Bangarang

[row_33]

Josh is about 1/575th the accomplishments of Jim at this point in his career

 

[badassgixxer05]

Dan Marino was chucking the rock all over back in the 80s too. Passing offense isn't a new thing. Kelly took some time to dial in like anyone else and then saw better days. I think Josh will get there. Its those fn mahomes guys these days that ruin it for everyone. lol Now everyone wants to see MVP level passing day 1 or hes a bust..

[Virgil]

They also had Thurman and KD.  But I get your point and it’s a good one. 
 

Same when you think about Reed never had back to back 1K seasons.   
 

The Bills offense was premier yet you can’t compare them to teams two decades later.   
 

Look at the greatest show on turf.  Even those stats are consistently beaten in today’s NFL and they destroyed everyone.  I can’t remember the last time in 20 years when a teams QB, RB, and top 2 WR’s all went in the top 10 of a fantasy football draft.  It was crazy 

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Forecast:

 

60.9 comp %

3306 passing yds

20TDs

14ints

494 rushing yds

8 rushing TDs

 

That's not a bad 2nd year for a QB

 

I know this is knit-picking, but 20 TDs is too few in today’s NFL if you don’t have the rushing attack and TDs there to support it. 
 

But if this is a trend, that’s good for year 2.  3800+ and 30+ TDs I think would be solid for year 3. 

[syhuang]

I want to see Josh Allen continue to improve and eventually be the guy. However, when I saw this tweet yesterday, I can't help but think it's a misleading comparison due to different eras.

 

in 1993, average comp%: 57.9%, average pass yard/game: 200.6, average TD/game: 1.2, average INT/game: 1.0

 

in 2019, average comp%: 64.8%, average pass yard/game: 238.5, average TD/game: 1.5, average INT/game: 0.8

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

 

I thought that they banned all of the floor mats at OBD 

 

[StHustle]

Cool so all we need now is to add 3-4 future HOFers in their primes to this roster and we'll be all set.

[billsfan1959]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Anytime someone compares QB stats to one from nearly 3 decades ago I know they are an idiot.

 

What should we take from this?

 

Well, I'd say you are more than qualified to know one when you see one...

[gsx95red]

Couldn't be more than fake news on the original graphic. Just someone trying to supportive their own narrative....

 

That's the Jim Kelly stats for his first 6 games played in 2013 (they had TWO byes back then - Week 8 on NFL calendar), and then someone lines up Allen's stats for a full 8 games played (Week 9 by NFL schedule). If you are going to do it this way - please add the 10 fumbles by Allen that are drive killers (3 of them lost which changed possession).

 

Pure nonsense....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I know this is knit-picking, but 20 TDs is too few in today’s NFL if you don’t have the rushing attack and TDs there to support it. 
 

But if this is a trend, that’s good for year 2.  3800+ and 30+ TDs I think would be solid for year 3. 

 

Tainted Tom only has 14 TD's thus far this year and 5 INT's 

Lamar Jackson has 12 TD's thus far this year and 5 INT's 

Jimmy Porn Star G  has 13 TD's thus far this year and 7 INT's 

Josh Allen has 10 TD's thus far this year and 7 INT's 

 

edit

Jarred Goff has 11 TD's thus far this year and7 INT's 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Tainted Tom only has 14 TD's thus far this year and 5 INT's 

Lamar Jackson has 12 TD's thus far this year and 5 INT's 

Jimmy Porn Star G  has 13 TD's thus far this year and 7 INT's 

Josh Allen has 10 TD's thus far this year and 7 INT's 

 

And seven of Lamar Jackson's TDs came in the 1st two games. Since then, 5 TDS, 5 INTS, 4 Fumbles. But hey, he is at least in the discussion for League MVP.

[Virgil]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Tainted Tom only has 14 TD's thus far this year and 5 INT's 

Lamar Jackson has 12 TD's thus far this year and 5 INT's 

Jimmy Porn Star G  has 13 TD's thus far this year and 7 INT's 

Josh Allen has 10 TD's thus far this year and 7 INT's 

I don’t think those are great comparisons this year.  
 

Brady hasn’t been himself and his defense is scoring more touchdowns that some offenses.  He doesn’t need to do as much. 
 

Lamar still isn’t a true QB to me yet, no matter how effective that offense may be.  People eventually adapt to Roman and shut him down. 
 

Jimmy is a decent comparison, but they also are sporting a great D and 3 headed rushing attack.  
 

But I do see the point you are trying to make 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

And seven of Lamar Jackson's TDs came in the 1st two games. Since then, 5 TDS, 5 INTS, 4 Fumbles. But hey, he is at least in the discussion for League MVP.

 

LOL   insanity ...  

3 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don’t think those are great comparisons this year.  
 

Brady hasn’t been himself and his defense is scoring more touchdowns that some offenses.  He doesn’t need to do as much. 
 

Lamar still isn’t a true QB to me yet, no matter how effective that offense may be.  People eventually adapt to Roman and shut him down. 
 

Jimmy is a decent comparison, but they also are sporting a great D and 3 headed rushing attack.  
 

But I do see the point you are trying to make 

 

Why?  Are you choosing to cherry pick Virgil

 

The numbers are what they are.   the QB's (beside Brady and Belicheat ) don't get to pick who and where they play  

 

Every name I listed has STAR power.   All but Buffalo's own Josh Allen.  

Why?    and don't say Josh sucks people 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Well, I'd say you are more than qualified to know one when you see one...

Oh burn

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

And seven of Lamar Jackson's TDs came in the 1st two games. Since then, 5 TDS, 5 INTS, 4 Fumbles. But hey, he is at least in the discussion for League MVP.

Beating an undefeated team with 3 tds helps. 

 

And this is completely misleading.  All qbs from Kelly’s eras laugh at how easy it to play qb now compared when they played. The rules completely favor the offense.

Edited November 5, 2019 by C.Biscuit97

[H2o]

4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

And seven of Lamar Jackson's TDs came in the 1st two games. Since then, 5 TDS, 5 INTS, 4 Fumbles. But hey, he is at least in the discussion for League MVP.

Yes, but Lamar's been getting his RB on in that time so that makes him worthy of league MVP discussion. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

Yes, but Lamar's been getting his RB on in that time so that makes him worthy of league MVP discussion. 

It’s weird how some of you try to put down other QBs. If Allen was completing 64% of his passes, averaging 300 yards/ game, with 18 tds, coming off destroying the Pats, we build a statue for him. 

 

Why is it so hard to Jackson has been really good this year?

[Nextmanup]

Let's stop this nonsense right now.

 

Every poster here would wave their magic wand, if they could, and swap Josh Allen at his current age for Jim Kelly at the same age.

 

Am I right?

 

Thought so.

 

 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Beating an undefeated team with 3 tds helps. 

 

Yep, it does; however, he did most of that damage with his feet. Nothing wrong with that - but, as a passer, he is closer to the bottom of the league than the top. When Allen was doiong that last year, the same people applauding Lamar now were saying that Allen needed to become a better QB with his arm then.

 

Just pointing out the fact that he doesn't take near the criticism that Allen takes as a passer, even though, since the second game of the season he has steadily declined. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Yep, it does; however, he did most of that damage with his feet. Nothing wrong with that - but, as a passer, he is closer to the bottom of the league than the top. When Allen was doiong that last year, the same people applauding Lamar now were saying that Allen needed to become a better QB with his arm then.

 

Just pointing out the fact that he doesn't take near the criticism that Allen takes as a passer, even though, since the second game of the season he has steadily declined. 

Jackson’s best receiver has been hurt for like 3 weeks.  And you can’t be serious about Jackson not getting criticism.  He was a Heisman winning qb who people wanted to switch positions.  

 

 

[blacklabel]

34 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Back then Kelly's stats looked good?

 

How old are you?

 

642. Don't ask again, fella.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I'm all aboard the Josh Allen Express--he will get where we need him to be in order to remain the face of our franchise for many years to come. However, I feel like this type of snippet comparison is misleading as pointed out upthread. 

[TroutDog]

32 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Anytime someone compares QB stats to one from nearly 3 decades ago I know they are an idiot.

 

What should we take from this?

I think it still has value but not for what the OP is saying. Instead, it’s still reasonable to look at how QB’s progress after coming to the league. Even the best (Peyton more recently) had rough starts. 
 

Most positions simply need time to acclimate to the NFL level...although there are outliers. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Just FYI, as well, since why the hell not.

 

since coming back from injury last year Allen is 9-5 as a starter, with 18 Td passes, plus 9 rushing tds for a total of 27 against 14 picks.

 

I didn’t look up the fumbles because I didn’t feel like it.

[freddyjj]

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I'm all aboard the Josh Allen Express--he will get where we need him to be in order to remain the face of our franchise for many years to come. However, I feel like this type of snippet comparison is misleading as pointed out upthread. 

agreed 

Two different era's 

 

But it is still a cool graphic .

 

 

[BillsFanSD]

12 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Let's stop this nonsense right now.

 

Every poster here would wave their magic wand, if they could, and swap Josh Allen at his current age for Jim Kelly at the same age.

 

Am I right?

 

Thought so.

 

 

Yes, I would swap Josh Allen -- a work in progress -- for a guy who I already know will go on to be a first-ballot HOFer.  I would also swap Josh Allen for a 2nd-year Dan Marino, John Elway, Joe Montana, Steve Young, etc.

 

That doesn't mean I'm not optimistic about Allen.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Just FYI, as well, since why the hell not.

 

since coming back from injury last year Allen is 9-5 as a starter, with 18 Td passes, plus 9 rushing tds for a total of 27 against 14 picks.

 

I didn’t look up the fumbles because I didn’t feel like it.

 

7 this season ... lost 4 ?? 

3 last season 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

Yeah, ‘93 was not a great year for the no huddle iirc. It was being figured out by DCs, and the Bills OL had started to decline. I think Reed was out for awhile too, leaving Brooks to pick up the slack. It was the beginning of the end, really. Seems like so long ago, and it’s incredible that the Bills really haven’t had a good QB in 22 years since JK retired. Brady’s been starting for the better part of 19 seasons. Ugh!

[gsx95red]

4 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

 

Thank you for copying in the game logs!

My original point by the original post/meme whatever you want to call it was that is was completely INCORRECT.

 

These game logs are JK's first 8 games - played through Week 10 because of the 2 bye's in 1993. Now it's fair to compare, but if you want to do that makes sure you count the 10 fumbles (3 lost by Allen), all painful to scoring points, but to Allen's defense better count his 4 RUSHING Td's too against Kelly....

[ngbills]

6 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Some transparency here please, here are actual stats from Jim Kelly's first 8 games in 1993

 

Jim Kelly 1993 Season								Passing
Rk		G#	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A
1		1	BUF		NWE	W 38-14	*	13	22	59%	167	4	1	103.6	1	10	7.59	9.18
2		2	BUF	@	DAL	W 13-10	*	16	27	59%	155	1	1	72.3	4	26	5.74	4.81
3		3	BUF		MIA	L 13-22	*	20	39	51%	199	1	2	53.3	4	23	5.1	3.31
4		4	BUF		NYG	W 17-14	*	14	25	56%	142	1	1	69.1	5	30	5.68	4.68
5		5	BUF		HOU	W 35-7	*	15	25	60%	247	3	0	132.8	2	6	9.88	12.28
6		6	BUF	@	NYJ	W 19-10	*	22	35	63%	224	0	2	57.3	1	8	6.4	3.83
7		7	BUF		WAS	W 24-10	*	18	24	75%	238	2	1	116.3	0	0	9.92	9.71
8		8	BUF	@	NWE	W 13-10	*	29	46	63%	317	1	0	90.6	2	19	6.89	7.33
	1st 8 games							147	243	60%	1689	13	8	86.9	19	122	7.2	6.9

 

Different era back then.  bills were 7-1 after 8 weeks in 1993.   Interesting note that in back half of year, 1993 Bills were 5-3 and Jim only threw 5 TDs against 10 INTs in those last 8 games.  

 

Was going to say that those stats were wrong. Thanks for posting the correct ones. Though as many have said you cant compare 30 year old stats. Completely different times. 

[ILBillsfan]

29 minutes ago, Virgil said:

I don’t think those are great comparisons this year.  
 

Brady hasn’t been himself and his defense is scoring more touchdowns that some offenses.  He doesn’t need to do as much. 
 

Lamar still isn’t a true QB to me yet, no matter how effective that offense may be.  People eventually adapt to Roman and shut him down. 
 

Jimmy is a decent comparison, but they also are sporting a great D and 3 headed rushing attack.  
 

But I do see the point you are trying to make 

If those reasons are valid for those guys why can there not be similar reasons behind Josh's?  I guess I don't get the cherry picking when a person brings up comparisons.  I do understand not comparing stats form 30 years ago but then this was posted and its not valid because of the reasons.  C;mon man

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Jackson’s best receiver has been hurt for like 3 weeks.  And you can’t be serious about Jackson not getting criticism.  He was a Heisman winning qb who people wanted to switch positions.  

 

I was not talking about when he came into the league. I have been talking about this year and, so far, he has been the darling of the NFL and talked about for League MVP. The truth is, over his last 5 games, he has been averaging 190 yards per game passing with 5 TDs, 5 INTs, and 4 Fumbles. He has increased his carries during that time to 15 per game and 93 yards per game. I like Jackson and, like Allen, I think he is progressing. However, those are not numbers worthy of League MVP, particularly at QB.

 

He has primarily been doing it with his legs over the last six weeks. Like I said, nothing wrong with thta as he is doing what he needs to do to win. But, let's be honest here. When ALlen was doing that same thing over the last six games of last year, there were a lot of critics, and you were as vocal as anyone, saying he needed to become a better passer and not rely on his legs, and that it was not a sustainable way of playing QB. 

 

I'm not any more critical of Jackson than I am about Allen. But, I am consistent.