Refs this year...opinion?

[row_33]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

At some point, Nantz and Romo were complaining about penalties on every play, but I agree with you.  It wasn't the refs' fault.  You might have argued with one call or another, but they were obviously bad calls.  They were the result of guys trying to make plays and committing fouls.  

As I said, I agree with about the fans.  And I agree about bad bounces.   That's the breaks of the game.   

 

But when officiating could be better and the league doesn't do anything about it, I do feel for the players.   I calculated once that true full-time refs, with real weekly training and real weekly evaluation, so that the refs would be as good as they could be and the worst officials were regularly removed the field, would cost about $30 million a year more than they pay for refs now.  That's $1 million per team.   These franchises are making $100 million a year, and they refuse to spend a tiny fraction of that money to minimize human error in the officiating.  

 

it's only half the year at most, this isn't a full time job requirement

 

fans are simply too biased and rabid in football, they don't accept that their weaker team is getting beat out there....

 

 

[Happy]

40 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Lmao they haven’t been great! They have been rather awful! I mean awful like inconsistent.. if they had some sort of consistency coaches could go “ok they always call X let’s coach them up make sure they don’t do it”  same goes for consistently not calling something like say “illegal contact” on a CB.  Which was the case back in the early 2000.  That’s why Indy complained to the committee to get it unforced more moving forward. (No I don’t consider it cheating by a HC knowing how the refs call a game and using it to his advantage. Their is nothing stopping the other coach from doing the same thing.) 

 

I was being facetious in my post.  They're pretty terrible for multiple seasons, to the point where the NFL needs to get full time, trained refs that are held accountable for bad calls. 

 

The bolded part I agree with; it's actually very smart.  I know Belichick, and now Matt Patricia, do this.

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, H2o said:

This is the problem.  It is hard to tell blatant incompetence from being paid off.  The bad calls tarnish the game and its outcomes.  If the NFL does not address, the fans will lose interest if they believe it is rigged.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

9 minutes ago, row_33 said:

it's only half the year at most, this isn't a full time job requirement

 

fans are simply too biased and rabid in football, they don't accept that their weaker team is getting beat out there....

couldn't of been said better by a patsie* fan.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html

 

The Bills are 13th fewest!!!   

 

The Putrids 6 th fewest

 

Wait What?  The worst offense in the NFL (in scoring) has the 2nd least flags?!?!    Pity from the Refs??   

 

[row_33]

15 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

couldn't of been said better by a patsie* fan.

 

the Bills for about 6-8 years with Kelly were a colossus of the AFC and fans still whined about the refs and mummy-daddy-mummy-daddy

 

 

17 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

couldn't of been said better by a patsie* fan.

 

you going senile, old-timer?

 

so bitter, it doesn't work for an old man

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, row_33 said:

the Bills for about 6-8 years with Kelly were a colossus of the AFC and fans still whined about the refs and mummy-daddy-mummy-daddy

like I said, a patsie fan, whether closet fan or not, couldn't of said it better.

 

as for the mummy/daddy comment. you're not as high on that pedestal as you may believe you are so it's real easy to overlook such a childish comment.

 

carry on pats* fan. 

[row_33]

You've chosen to ignore content by DaBillsFanSince1973.

 

heaven..... I'm in heaven....

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by row_33

[Radar]

Been going down hill for awhile. They miss the obvious at this point weekly.

[Patrick Duffy]

My opinion is they are bad, just like they have been over the past (lot) of years. It's not going to change, only get worse with new rules every time you turn around IMO. But anyways.......is what it's gona be I guess.

[CLTbills]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is blatantly untrue.  There were 3 straight calls against the NYJs on the drive - all of them correct.  Then there were 2 straight calls against Dallas, both of which were correct.  That put Dallas in a 1st and 27 and then Jamal Adams was overly aggressive and got a call against him.  
 

The calls were not bad calls and for the most part they were not even questionable.  I am not sure what the Refs are supposed to do - the Jets were all over the receiver long before the ball arrived.  Are they supposed to ignore it because they have flagged the other team already a couple of times.

 

I get it there are some very questionable calls, but try an suggest it was inappropriate to flag the Jets on that drive or they were trying to help the Cowboys - ignores logic and the fact that 2 of the calls went against Dallas.

How dare you spew all of that logic?!?!?!?

[Vod Kanockers]

1 hour ago, RU5781 said:

 

This...every time there is an incompletion, I hold my breath. 

I just wonder why it's worse this year? What has changed to make it appear to be so much worse?

Legalized sports gambling. 

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Agreed.  Fish rot from the head.

 

Solution:  make all plays reviewable, allow incorrect penalties (like the hands to the face calls on Detriot last night) to be overturned.

 

Or like this:   

 

This play completely pissed me off. The DB had his arms around the receiver! How is that not PI???

[Shaw66]

46 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

it's only half the year at most, this isn't a full time job requirement

 

fans are simply too biased and rabid in football, they don't accept that their weaker team is getting beat out there....

 

 

Baseball umpires are full-time with a big off-season.  Football should be no different.  Pay them $150,000-$200,000 a year, plus travel and benefits, you'll get plenty of guys looking for that job.  It just wouldn't be very hard to do.   

 

I mean, when a guy is a high school principal Monday through Friday, gets on a plane Friday night to fly to his NFL assignment, then has to fly home Sunday night to be at school the next morning, do you really believe he'll be as sharp calling games as a guy whose focus all week is on calling the games as well as he can?   

[Steve Billieve]

Fine. I'll say it.  I love the officiating.  Best. Year. EVER.  Thanks to replay we get the right call almost all the time. And almost all egregious mistakes have been removed from the game.  Remember when you couldn't even trust the officials to get field goals and xtra points right?

[LSHMEAB]

The most absurd thing is their refusal to overturn PI calls. What's the point of the replay system if they're just gonna let the play stand? I'm sure there's been a reversal or two, but I haven't seen it. Maybe a DB bodyslammed a receiver and they HAD to change the call.

 

Baseball replay is pretty much the same thing; very rarely are plays overturned.

 

They should really do away with the notion that the replay must show "indisputable" evidence that the call was incorrect. It gives the replay officials too much wiggle room. Even a jury trial doesn't require "indisputable" evidence. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, badassgixxer05 said:

IDK, when we are winning I don't notice the refs that much. Hope it stays that way.. ?

 

THIS^^^

The Bills have been the benefactor of a few calls this year. (2 TD's called back and 4 missed FGs in TEN) We have won 4 games with a total point differential of +20. A few timely flags and this team is as likely to be 1-4 as it is 5-0 even though they are playing good football. 

[The Wiz]

17 minutes ago, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

This play completely pissed me off. The DB had his arms around the receiver! How is that not PI???

Look at the logo on the field and you'll know why. 

[Bangarang]

Just like I say in every game day thread when people say the refs are out to get us....it’s a league wide problem.

 

Im sure it’s going to be a major talking point at the owners meetings.

[Direhard Fan]

The NFL should be ashamed.  I'm really surprised the players, a coach or fan haven't clocked a ref right on the field for their terrible job performance.  Players get job performance reports for every game and too many of these plays effect the out come of a game and their evaluation.   Really sad.  

[Nextmanup]

The game has been slowly evolving over time until now, when it has reached critical mass.

 

The entire approach to the game is overly officious, detail oriented, and the rules system is excessively complex.

 

It's a football game.  It should not be approached the same as a legal proceeding.

 

How to fix it?  First, immediately eliminate all "instant replay" and review processes from the game.  Go back to the old days.

 

Then weed out the handful of penalties that cause most of the trouble and re-write the rules so that they are much simpler, clear, and easier to enforce in an objective manner, on the field.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Nextmanup

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, Direhard Fan said:

The NFL should be ashamed.  I'm really surprised the players, a coach or fan haven't clocked a ref right on the field for their terrible job performance.  Players get job performance reports for every game and too many of these plays effect the out come of a game and their evaluation.   Really sad.  

They are and they feel really bad about it.

 

See.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by The Wiz

[fan_in_tx]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

When the Raiders move to Vegas .. who will Vegas favor?   Are we looking at a possible Raiders 10 yr dynasty?

 

[Gugny]

It's getting to the point where I'm close to believing that games are fixed.  That is sad.

[Dablitzkrieg]

They are supposedly meeting today with the head of officiating.  I would imagine a significant decrease in calls this week.  If I'm Frazier, I tell the defensive back to mull the Dolphin WR's.  Don't think it will matter though

55 minutes ago, Steve Billieve said:

Fine. I'll say it.  I love the officiating.  Best. Year. EVER.  Thanks to replay we get the right call almost all the time. And almost all egregious mistakes have been removed from the game.  Remember when you couldn't even trust the officials to get field goals and xtra points right?

You are either a troll or an idiot

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Just Joshin' said:

This is the problem.  It is hard to tell blatant incompetence from being paid off.  The bad calls tarnish the game and its outcomes.  If the NFL does not address, the fans will lose interest if they believe it is rigged.

Pretty crappy pay off! $20 lmao... I see what you mean, IMO they are not rigging the games I think it’s a few other reasons like:

 

1. Fan Boys — let’s face it some of them are fans and ref their favorite team thus less flags..

 

2. Blatant Incompetence — some are just god awful bad! This is true in every profession.. just so obvious with refs..

 

3. Poor Training —- as someone mentioned this is a part time job for them and most I bet do not know a majority of the rule book. 
 

All three are correctable especially the last two by full time refs who are taught all new rules in the off season as well as reinforcing old rules.

[H2o]

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

It's getting to the point where I'm close to believing that games are fixed.  That is sad.

The 2006 SB had me REALLY contemplating this. Ben did not score on his attempted dive into the endzone, but even after review they called it a TD. Numerous suspect flags were thrown against Seattle, especially when they had made a positive gain of some kind. Matt Hasselbeck throws an INT, runs after the guy who picked him off, throws his body in front of his legs in an attempt to tackle him, and gets called for a "Chop Block"? I remember saying, "What the  kind of call is that?" How can a guy trying to make a tackle be committing a chop block? It just so happened to be Jerome Bettis' final game as well. It all seems pretty shady to me until this day. 

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Pretty crappy pay off! $20 lmao... I see what you mean, IMO they are not rigging the games I think it’s a few other reasons like:

 

1. Fan Boys — let’s face it some of them are fans and ref their favorite team thus less flags..

 

2. Blatant Incompetence — some are just god awful bad! This is true in every profession.. just so obvious with refs..

 

3. Poor Training —- as someone mentioned this is a part time job for them and most I bet do not know a majority of the rule book. 
 

All three are correctable especially the last two by full time refs who are taught all new rules in the off season as well as reinforcing old rules.

 

I mean this in the nicest way possible, really ..... you have no right to weigh in on this subject.

[DC Tom]

I want to say they're no worse than they've ever been.  But subjectively, I have a hard time believing that.

 

I think it might be more accurate to say that officiating is worse than it's ever been, in that it's not just the people but the entire system that's thoroughly cockeyed.  How much can you pin on "the refs" when they're bound to an overly-nitpicky rule book ("We cant' define 'catch,' so lets compound the problem by ***** up the definition of 'pass interception!'") and hide-bound procedures that are arbitrarily applied?   

5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Pretty crappy pay off! $20 lmao... I see what you mean, IMO they are not rigging the games I think it’s a few other reasons like:

 

1. Fan Boys — let’s face it some of them are fans and ref their favorite team thus less flags..

 

2. Blatant Incompetence — some are just god awful bad! This is true in every profession.. just so obvious with refs..

 

3. Poor Training —- as someone mentioned this is a part time job for them and most I bet do not know a majority of the rule book. 
 

All three are correctable especially the last two by full time refs who are taught all new rules in the off season as well as reinforcing old rules.

 

I forget...have I ever claimed to like you in the past?

 

If not, then ***** off and die like any good Patriots fan.

 

If so, then ***** of and die like any good Patriots fan, pretty please with sugar on top.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

7 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

I want to say they're no worse than they've ever been.  But subjectively, I have a hard time believing that.

 

I think it might be more accurate to say that officiating is worse than it's ever been, in that it's not just the people but the entire system that's thoroughly cockeyed.  How much can you pin on "the refs" when they're bound to an overly-nitpicky rule book ("We cant' define 'catch,' so lets compound the problem by ***** up the definition of 'pass interception!'") and hide-bound procedures that are arbitrarily applied?   

 

I forget...have I ever claimed to like you in the past?

 

If not, then ***** off and die like any good Patriots fan.

 

If so, then ***** of and die like any good Patriots fan, pretty please with sugar on top.

This is the crux of the problem, overly technical......an NFL rules monger would say......rule 63 subsection 35 section A paragraph 3 says...if the player......blah blah blah...then its not this....for further clarification refer to appendix five C...new rule this year...you didn't know?

[DC Tom]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

This is the crux of the problem, overly technical......an NFL rules monger would say......rule 63 subsection 35 section A paragraph 3 says...if the player......blah blah blah...then its not this....for further clarification refer to appendix five C...new rule this year...you didn't know?

 

When you need a play-by-play person in the booth to explain the refs, you've done gone screwed up your sport.

[flomoe]

Nothing will change until the 2026-2027 season So we might as well get used to it.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/28/nfl-referees-association-announces-new-seven-year-labor-deal/

[KollegeStudnet]

It needs to change. 

[Bookie Man]

Refs have always made crappy calls. It's unfortunate that these calls affect the outcome of games and even seasons for some. Detroit just went from 1st to worst in the NFCN, after last nights debacle. They need to simplify the refereeing. Only make calls that are blatant and that affect the play. The game would be 10 x better. Easily. Nothing worse than phantom holding calls that erase a big play. Especially if the phantom hold is away from the play. Oh and start fining refs for mistakes. Bigger the screw up, bigger the fine. Last night, the ref should have been fined the maximum amount. 

[row_33]

7 minutes ago, NC Book said:

Refs have always made crappy calls. It's unfortunate that these calls affect the outcome of games and even seasons for some. Detroit just went from 1st to worst in the NFCN, after last nights debacle. They need to simplify the refereeing. Only make calls that are blatant and that affect the play. The game would be 10 x better. Easily. Nothing worse than phantom holding calls that erase a big play. Especially if the phantom hold is away from the play. Oh and start fining refs for mistakes. Bigger the screw up, bigger the fine. Last night, the ref should have been fined the maximum amount. 

 

fans are biased and rabid and want all calls made, especially the imaginary penalties against their team

 

they see them on every single play in the NFL

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by row_33

[BobbyC81]

5 hours ago, TigerJ said:

It sure seems as if the bad officiating of the past has become the terrible officiating of the present.  I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

Every broadcast now includes a former ref to comment on calls under review, etc.  Those guys are doing a good job of analyzing the plays but it seems half the time, the decision from NY is the opposite from them, including plays where it is obvious to us viewers what the decision should be.

[Chill]

Terrible. It has become obvious that this league is rigged. 

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, ColeB said:

Every broadcast now includes a former ref to comment on calls under review, etc.  Those guys are doing a good job of analyzing the plays but it seems half the time, the decision from NY is the opposite from them, including plays where it is obvious to us viewers what the decision should be.

 

yes, NY just does whatever the bleep it wants to with it

 

i have learned for decades now that plays i thought were 100% obvious (with no interest or $$ riding on the outcome) were apparently so wrong that they could be overturned

 

it's a total crock, i usually fast forward now to the next play, it can only get you upset following the narrative of a replay....

 

 

[eee1776]

It seams to me that the worst of the bunch( there are some good ones) and I hope this crew does not officiate a Bills game is Shawn Hochuli's crew.

[Matt_In_NH]

I am sure I am in the minority but I'll throw this out there anyway.   

 

I get why people are upset but I also think people forget how bad it used to be before replay.   I think what has changed more than anything are more rules and a million times more scrutiny with frame by frame analysis, social media gifs, 24/7 NFL networks, non stop analysis of the bad calls....that is what is more different than the actual performance of the refs which has always been and always will be inconsistent and subjective.   To some extent you get some calls you lose others, that has and always will be part of the NFL, NHL and every other sport.   

 

The refs cant see everything in real time, I think most people can understand that,so use technology to get it right if you can.Before replay, there were obvious called scoring plays that today would be reversed, obvious called turnovers that today would be reversed, obvious called catches that today would be reversed, etc.   My point is there are aspects of review they are doing well.

 

Now this stupid idea to carve out pass interference as reviewable for called AND NON-called penalties is just terrible to watch it play out.   I really think the refs are just doing "silent protest" of sorts and not reversing any of these.  Not sure why they are doing it when some of these are so obvious other than reviewing  non called penalties opens up a pandora's box I don't think we really want to open.   Today its PI, tomorrow its holding, hands to the face, helmet to helmet contact and other things that might happen on every play but lets just wait for a big play by the opponent and then find a reason to reverse it.   

 

Personally, I would like to see reviews for called penalties to get rid of obvious calls they got wrong but to go to replay to throw a flag is a terrible idea in my opinion.

Edited October 15, 2019 by mattynh