Josh Allen - Draft night retrospect

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, foreboding said:

No chance, Josh's physical gifts are too great. Even if he wasnt improving at the rate he is...he's the kind of qb that gets multiple chances. 

This is so true.   QBs with big arms get a lot of chances, just like guys with 4.3 speed. 

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, RobbRiddick said:

I have noticed something in this forum: during the gameday threads there's always a lot of posters who turn up whenever Allen has made a mistake or the team is struggling, then disappear when the he brings them back to win.

 

I guess if NE do the expected and give the Bills a beating there will be hundreds of them crawling out the woodwork

It's certainly possible...but judging by the number of members above who have said they weren't high on Allen but would give him time, we all have to judge him based on the good (last four regular season games) and the bad (hero ball throws, misfires, etc).

[Nextmanup]

7 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

I have noticed something in this forum: during the gameday threads there's always a lot of posters who turn up whenever Allen has made a mistake or the team is struggling, then disappear when the he brings them back to win.

 

I guess if NE do the expected and give the Bills a beating there will be hundreds of them crawling out the woodwork

It works in reverse too.  When we win or things go well, the clueless kool aid crowd becomes emboldened and they start all manner of post-game threads talking about Josh Allen being better than Mahomes, us going to the Super Bowl this year, and all manner of other nonsense.

 

This forum usually swings between 2 extremes.  Most commentary is not fair, balanced, accurate, and well reasoned.

 

 

 

[ColdFront_USAF]

It's crazy seeing how much opinions have changed in a year and change. I admittedly was a Rosen guy, but my opinion on Allen changed a lot when I listened to the Move the Sticks podcast episode that featured him and interviewed him. He came off as such a humble and honest guy, I knew he would fit in here personality wise, so I was more disappointed that we didn't take my guy than I was about picking Allen in general. Looking back on it, so far I'm really glad I'm not the GM of this team. We might have been in "Tank for Tua" mode right now instead of playing the Pats at home for first place in the AFCE. 

[Capco]

Before the draft, I was hoping that Allen would go first to Browns in the All-Time Brownsie move, Mayfield third, and that we'd get Darnold at 7.  

 

At this point I'm much happier with Allen than I think I would be with Darnold.  Allen just fits this team and city like a damn glove.  

[Radar]

5 hours ago, Juice_32 said:

I wanted Rosen, I’m dumb.

Don't be so hard on yourself. Take comfort knowing there's a lot of us here keeping you company in your problem.

[Nextmanup]

30 minutes ago, Capco said:

Before the draft, I was hoping that Allen would go first to Browns in the All-Time Brownsie move, Mayfield third, and that we'd get Darnold at 7.  

 

At this point I'm much happier with Allen than I think I would be with Darnold.  Allen just fits this team and city like a damn glove.  

I have no interest in how he fits the team or city! 

 

I have an interest in how well he plays quarterback during games.

 

Does Brady fit Boston like a glove?  What does that even mean?

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Nextmanup

[Capco]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Does Brady fit Boston like a glove?  What does that even mean?

 

Yes! 

 

"Insufferable douche" can be used to describe both Brady and your generic Bostonian ?

[BillsCuse]

I yelled at the tv and fell back on my couch in disbelief and my wife and mother in law looked at me like I was an idiot.  I wanted Rosen and did not want to trade up at all for Allen.  I'm glad I'm not the one making the picks, lol

[ndirish1978]

I wanted Baker and Darnold, was going to be ok with Rosen and was unhappy with the pick. I now believe I was wrong.

[KingBoots8]

 

 

 

I was cautiously optimistic, although I was in the process of moving into a hotel with my wife and kids since our house flooded so my mood was a bit sour. I sat in a hotel lobby as they made the pick and was sitting with a few businessmen who were watching as well. One guy laughed, the other two said they wished he went to NY. I sat in silence, said “alright then” and ventured back to my room. I missed the trade up after that entirely lol.

Edited September 25, 2019 by KingBoots8

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

I meant “tame” compared to some of the “I’m outta here” and “&$!#%” that night 

 

I have a lot of respect for the “I’m outta here” if they leave and do not return with an alias.

[zow2]

I'm curious how Allen's QB passer rating inside the pocket stacks up this year against the other young QB's (5 years or less).  Last season i believe he was 2nd last of 16 guys.  This year Josh looks much better and is hanging in there to scan the D as long as possible.

 

As for this thread, i was hoping Darnold would be there.  All i knew about Allen was that he was another big arm, no big game experience, raw talent.  

[thebandit27]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

You mean the anti-semitic trolls who spammed the board for the month leading up to the draft, only to have completely disappeared ever since? (Or gone back to their real usernames and are still among us)

 

My family is Jewish and I thought (and still think) that Rosen's a jerk.

 

Not sure why not liking him has to be politically-motivated or bigoted.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

My family is Jewish and I thought (and still think) that Rosen's a jerk.

 

Not sure why not liking him has to be politically-motivated or bigoted.

 

I wasnt talking about you. I was talking about the specific troll posters who made new screen names and accounts, and blew this board up for an entire month with plenty of anti-semitic rhetoric. A number of them were removed and banned because of their behavior. It happened.

 

I never said "anyone who doesnt like Rosen hates Jews!" or anything along those dumb lines.

 

Dont strawman me bro!

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by DrDawkinstein

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I wasnt talking about you. I was talking about the specific troll posters who made new screen names and accounts, and blew this board up for an entire month with plenty of anti-semitic rhetoric. A number of them were removed and banned because of their behavior. It happened.

 

I never said "anyone who doesnt like Rosen hates Jews!" or anything along those dumb lines.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess somehow I missed all of those posts. I have literally no recollection of that--and believe me I'd have noticed (for obvious reasons).

[Magox]

I loved Mahomes coming into the draft and just thought he had that "it" "wow" thing going on.

 

Allen about a month away from the draft I hated.   Then as I began to see more of him leading up to the draft I began liking him more and more as each day passed to the point that I came to the conclusion that if we drafted him I'd be perfectly ok with him.  To the point on the day or day after we drafted him I created a thread attempting to dispel the notion that he was an inaccurate passer and that with better mechanics, supporting cast and reign in his deep ball mentality that he'd be just fine with his accuracy on his throws.

 

Also I mentioned that he could possibly end up being one of the best QB's in the league outside of the pocket.   And that I thought that there was a pretty good chance that he'd have a better career than Rosen.   Alot of folks disagreed.

 

I'm just stoked that we got the RIGHT JOSH!

[MJS]

I wanted Rosen, but that's because the media said I should want him. I don't watch college ball. The media said Rosen was the most accurate and pro ready, they said he had a good arm and made good decisions. I didn't think the criticism of him being a rich kid without the need to play football was important (still don't), and I figured that if he had an attitude problem he could stand in line with the countless other QB's who are/were pompous, weren't good teammates, and demanded special treatment.

 

The media told me that Josh Allen was never going to amount to anything and that his accuracy was so bad that he could never perform. They told me that completion percentage was something you couldn't improve that much. So I ate it up. I was down on Allen. I wanted Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen, but I knew Darnold and Mayfield wouldn't be there.

 

So the whole exercise taught me a lot. Don't believe everything the media, analysts, and experts say. They are guessing like the rest of us. They don't measure drive, determination, leadership, and especially don't account for the strength of the offensive line and skill positions around these QB's, or the scheme and coaching in which they operate. The people who look at the full package are the ones who actually work in the NFL and help teams make decisions, not the ones who are on TV.

 

When the Bills picked Allen I was disappointed, but I didn't go online and bash the team. I knew I wasn't qualified to judge the pick. So I took a wait and see approach. After watching highlights and reading up on Josh, wasn't hard to start liking him. Seeing him perform in his rookie year completely sold me on him. He just has that "it" factor.

[GoBills808]

I was an Allen guy from the start so suck it

[MJS]

12 minutes ago, Magox said:

I loved Mahomes coming into the draft and just thought he had that "it" "wow" thing going on.

 

Allen about a month away from the draft I hated.   Then as I began to see more of him leading up to the draft I began liking him more and more as each day passed to the point that I came to the conclusion that if we drafted him I'd be perfectly ok with him.  To the point on the day or day after we drafted him I created a thread attempting to dispel the notion that he was an inaccurate passer and that with better mechanics, supporting cast and reign in his deep ball mentality that he'd be just fine with his accuracy on his throws.

 

Also I mentioned that he could possibly end up being one of the best QB's in the league outside of the pocket.   And that I thought that there was a pretty good chance that he'd have a better career than Rosen.   Alot of folks disagreed.

 

I'm just stoked that we got the RIGHT JOSH!

 

I also liked Mahomes, but since I don't follow college football I didn't know much about him besides his stats. Everyone said you couldn't trust the stats because he was in an air raid offense, but to me, watching the highlights, it just seemed like he could play ball. If we were going to take a QB that year I hoped it would be him.

 

But I totally get the Bills passing on him. They weren't in a good position to make a franchise altering decision like that. Lame duck GM and a coach brand new on the job. I definitely saw the reasoning behind getting the GM in place first and having a full year of evaluation before going down that road. Ultimately I hope Mahomes and Allen both have long, successful, championship filled careers and that the trade worked out for both teams.

[gobills1212]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

Lol. Ok Kevin Costner 

That was the point! And why she rolled her eyes and laughed... I was hoping that by my walking arnd w it all day would be good juju and the football gods wld sway McBeane. It didnt help, but thats all right by me!!

[Chandler#81]

Fun re-read.

My observation; the thread reads like a Who’s Who of Banned posters.

 

juss sayin’

[DrDawkinstein]

37 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I guess somehow I missed all of those posts. I have literally no recollection of that--and believe me I'd have noticed (for obvious reasons).

 

Mods did a good job of cleaning them up quick. ?

[berg1029]

I had no horse in the QB race that year, but I feel like any time a player is labeled a "project"... it's a huge red flag.  I mean think about it, labeling someone a project basically means that they aren't there yet.  You never know if they will actually get there or not. 

 

I'm glad the Bills drafted Allen, but if I was in management I would not have had the balls to draft him knowing that he was a project.  Props to Beane for following through on what he felt was the right QB choice.  In retrospect, I think he made a great choice

[thebandit27]

For me, that thread should teach one very important lesson:

 

No, you don't KNOW any prospect's career arc before he's drafted.

[Logic]

I was firmly on the "Anyone but Allen" train. I was scarred from JP Losman and EJ Manuel. I didn't like the idea of a kid with "prototypical size" and a "cannon arm" but who, by most accounts, couldn't actually play football very well. I bought into the whole analytics movement against Allen hook, line, and sinker.

The moment Allen became a Bill, my attitude changed. Why? Because I don't root against players on my own favorite team. Unlike some people, I'd rather be wrong about a prospect I don't like and watch him succeed for my team than be right about him and watch him fail. So I said "let's give him a chance", and I watched all the college highlights I could find, and I talked myself into the notion that he had a chance to be very good.

It's early, of course, but it sure seems like I was wrong. It seems like ALL the anti-Allen folks were wrong. At the very least, Allen's FLOOR seems to be "average NFL quarterback", which is ALREADY way better than most people thought he'd be. The Allen haters said he'd be an outright bust, and he certainly isn't that. At worst, he's a replacement level player. But he's only 15 games into his career, and I think he'll wind up being much better than that.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Logic

[Boatdrinks]

I hated the pick when it was made and facepalmed it at a draft party. I wanted Rosen ?at that point as he seemed “ safe” and Allen was a big risk. I thought of Mahomes the previous year as a boom or bust pick, and Allen seemed like that with a lot less boom. He’s definitely impressed me thus far and has probably already exceeded what I thought he might be capable of. He’s not there yet, but he seems headed in that direction. The arrow is pointing up. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

Fun re-read.

My observation; the thread reads like a Who’s Who of Banned posters.

 

juss sayin’

 

 Robert Woods is f-ing crazy.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Nextmanup

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

When we win or things go well, the clueless kool aid crowd becomes emboldened and they start all manner of post-game threads talking about Josh Allen being better than Mahomes, us going to the Super Bowl this year,

 

If you can show me 3 examples of the above I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice.

[TigerJ]

I tend not to make snap judgments.  During the pre-draft process I thought Allen's skill set was intriguing, but that he was likely a project.  When the Bills drafted him, I felt things were going to be interesting, but I did not pretend to know whether or not Josh Allen would be a successful starting QB.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, berg1029 said:

I had no horse in the QB race that year, but I feel like any time a player is labeled a "project"... it's a huge red flag.  I mean think about it, labeling someone a project basically means that they aren't there yet.  You never know if they will actually get there or not. 

 

I'm glad the Bills drafted Allen, but if I was in management I would not have had the balls to draft him knowing that he was a project.  Props to Beane for following through on what he felt was the right QB choice.  In retrospect, I think he made a great choice

 

Same here and used those identical words.  I left it all in Beane's hands.  So far it looks like he could of done a lot worse.

Josh Allen is on a pretty good trajectory so far, really hoping it continues.

[BringBackFergy]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I was an Allen guy from the start so suck it

Link??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Link??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

?

Do your own research!

[WideNine]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not sure about Jackson yet. There was a time when he was my #1 QB in the draft. I love a mobile QB. I don't understand why so many people are resistant to that. A good QB with elite mobility is impossible to defend. I saw Jackson's next level mobility and a good deep ball and I saw a successful NFL QB. Then he took the wonderlic and I lost all interest in him. You cant make it as a dumb QB in the NFL these days. I've watched a lot of his plays this year and something still seems a little off. It doesn't feel sustainable. But maybe he'll prove me wrong.

 

 

Was my take on Lamar as well.

 

Mobility is important and there have been QBs who have excellent mobility and ability to throw on the run, but they usually have a short run at success in the league.

 

Roman will get the most out of him, and maybe he does shed the "gimmick" label and over time can pickup more than a read option play book.

 

Time will tell, but he has played well for the Ravens and I will not take that from him.

 

I did not want Mayfield, but was on the fence regarding other top 3. Each had some positives and some things to worry about. 

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, foreboding said:

Well, I think we have already established how meaningless your opinion is, but thank-you for chiming in.

 

I have no desire to have a pissing contest but if you want to play credibility comparison on this message board then let's go. 

[JaCrispy]

11 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Hated the pick. I’m not sorry. I’ll be wrong again.

Yup...I almost lost my mind for the Bills ruining my draft weekend. ???

[LSHMEAB]

Wouldn't shock me if Josh and YES, LJAX, end up having more success than the top 3 QB's taken. They both appear to be proving detractors wrong.

 

I HATED the pick. I figured we'd already be looking for a new QB. I generally trust the numbers/analytics. I was slightly discouraged by that third quarter, but this kid is not going to "fail." I've seen enough to have full confidence in that. Will he remain mired in the middle of the pack and continue to have long stretches of head scratching play or will he minimize the bad and maximize the good? That will ultimately determine whether he moves into the upper echelon.

 

Zero doubt about his work ethic, character, and most importantly, mettle in late game situations. That's huge to me personally. There are certain guys you can just tell are rattled when the lights are on. Allen appears completely unfazed by the moment and even seems to enjoy it. Can't overstate the importance of that(in my book anyways).

 

He just MIGHT be the outlier of all outliers. But I'm not gonna put the cart before the horse considering our history with QB's. The kid "seems" different.

[NickelCity]

I hated the pick. I'm high on Josh now.

[BringBackFergy]

4 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Wouldn't shock me if Josh and YES, LJAX, end up having more success than the top 3 QB's taken. They both appear to be proving detractors wrong.

 

I HATED the pick. I figured we'd already be looking for a new QB. I generally trust the numbers/analytics. I was slightly discouraged by that third quarter, but this kid is not going to "fail." I've seen enough to have full confidence in that. Will he remain mired in the middle of the pack and continue to have long stretches of head scratching play or will he minimize the bad and maximize the good? That will ultimately determine whether he moves into the upper echelon.

 

Zero doubt about his work ethic, character, and most importantly, mettle in late game situations. That's huge to me personally. There are certain guys you can just tell are rattled when the lights are on. Allen appears completely unfazed by the moment and even seems to enjoy it. Can't overstate the importance of that(in my book anyways).

 

He just MIGHT be the outlier of all outliers. But I'm not gonna put the cart before the horse considering our history with QB's. The kid "seems" different.

Certainly would be a helluva story if he succeeds considering he had not one Div 1 scholarship offer and played JuCo football for a year. Kind of a Kurt Warner type backstory. We’ll see over the next few years. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, BringBackFergy said:

Certainly would be a helluva story if he succeeds considering he had not one Div 1 scholarship offer and played JuCo football for a year. Kind of a Kurt Warner type backstory. We’ll see over the next few years. 

Pretty much everything about his story is anomalous. A guy with that talent not getting D1 offers? I don't care that he was 180 pounds. That's weird right there. Then he comes out and every analytic metric says that his accuracy at Wyoming portends utter failure in the NFL. Yet he's chosen because of his arm/size. Then as a rookie, he demonstrates ridiculous mobility that nobody expected. It's almost like both sides are "correct," but the positives appear to be outweighing the negatives at this stage. He still makes throws that you don't expect even the worst NFL QB to make. Then he turns around and makes a throw you don't expect the BEST NFL QB to make. 

 

Regardless of what you think of Allen, the story is certainly interesting.