Did I watch a different game? Allen under pressure all day & made play after play

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I think he had a fair amount of good and a fair amount of bad. The pick throw seemed less a reaction to the grounding play than to the awful decision he made to throw across his body while under duress to sweeney in the red zone in the first half. He got lucky and it was a catch, but that was a ball that should NEVER have been thrown. He’s a cocky player, which i like, but he’s gotta eliminate the stupid. 

 

One other issue: the next deep ball he completes will be his first of the season. He’s 0-4 or 0-5 on those throws this year, and he’s either missing by a fair amount or throwing into double coverage.

 

Great final drive, of course.

Yup. There were two IIRC that he got away with throwing against the grain that somewhat rewards bad behavior. But the INT was just a brain fart. There is no way whatsoever that he should be attempting that pass. Just inexcusable. Especially under the game circumstances. 

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

Nobody is overlooking their weaknesses. Some of us just prefer to not look for ONLY the weknesses...

Our defensive line continues to look good at batting down passes, both safties look great as always, Hausch is money, the line is much improved and the interior are fantastic on the runs. The thread is about Allen and thats what I'm talking about. His happy feet and deep throws into coverage are weaknesses that will be exploited by better teams. This team is a huge improvement over last year. Everyone has excuses for why he is playing the same way he did in college.  

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Why are you arguing with me? You are missing my point. I'm fine with those plays. Just pointing out that they are the culprit and we will have to live with them. 

I am not arguing with you. I am merely pointing out that all QBs make these same throws every game, even the great ones. For some reason, there is a segment of this fan base - not particularly you, that seem to feel that one or two bad plays like this from Allen overshadow all the good plays he maks.

 

It's all good, brother

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

Yup. There were two IIRC that he got away with throwing against the grain that somewhat rewards bad behavior. But the INT was just a brain fart. There is no way whatsoever that he should be attempting that pass. Just inexcusable. Especially under the game circumstances. 

Yeah there was another one too and it was a great throw to brown. But he wasn’t 15 yards behind the LOS while being dragged down on that one.

[Billsfan1972]

BTW Brady threw a pick 6 today.  He need s to learn from those....

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Bills haven't played the historically bad Dolphins or the Jets with their 3rd string QB. That could also be part of the difference too. Oh and maybe we aren't as good as the six time super bowl champion dynasty Patriots too which would be totally understandable in Josh Allen's second year and less than one full season starting.

 

Do you have a point?

[Numark3]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's a pattern. He's being doing it since his days at Wyoming. 

 

Nah

 

He has a pattern of winning in the NFL though.  

Edited September 22, 2019 by Crayola64

[mjt328]

Josh Allen has been mostly positive this season, combined with a bunch of frustrating mistakes.

 

You can see Pro-Bowl superstar potential.  You can see the clutch-gene, and the ability to completely take over when things are clicking.  He's understanding defensive coverages and seeing the field better every week.  His accuracy has improved greatly, and should no longer be a big concern.  He's making plays from the pocket first, and using his legs as a secondary weapon.  At the same time, he's often careless with the football and needs to learn when to take a sack or incompletion.  He also seems to hold the ball too long at times.

 

Let's not forget that Allen has only started 14 games in the NFL.  He's still got PLENTY of time to improve the weak points of his game.  

[DRA3196]

These types of posts make the board fun... Josh was Josh. A young ultra talented QB that can make things happen some good plays some bad. But ya know what they WON. Did the team play good enough to win the SB today? Nope not close...BUT ya know what.. They didn't have to play at that level today. They had to play better than the Bengals today. And they did. Sometimes life isn't about the destination. It's about the journey. The o-line wasn't great today. We still won. The team is 3-0 with a HUGE division showdown coming up against the vile, Patriots. We are young, we are talented and we are learning. 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

BTW Brady threw a pick 6 today.  He need s to learn from those....

 

No he didn't.

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

And some prefer to not look at ONLY the strengths.  Simple as that really.

Well come on over to the glass half full side and hang out for awhile. Really. You would enjoy it, I think - so much less angst and hand wringing than over on the glass half empty side.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Made some nice throws; made some tough runs.

 

A mix of good, great, bad, and really bad.  As usual.

 

A young QB is a mix of flashes, promise, and dumb.  Alert the media

[Ethan in Cleveland]

There was QB pressure but not much more than ordinary. He made some great plays. He made some terrible decisions and some terrible throws.

He's learning. Stay the course. Learn from mistakes.

So far I see great improvement on short to mid range throws. And serious regression on touch deep passes.  I don't know enough to say if that is footwork or what the issue is but it has to be corrected or teams will play us like they did Fitz. Just drop 6 or 7 in the short to medium zones and dare him to throw deep. So odd because the deep ball is the part of his game that seemed to be fine.

[DuckyBoys]

I dont see happy feet or lack of accuracy at all.  I see a young guy who is so confident of his arm and his ability to break tackles/escape sacks that at times he tries to do too much. He  might never stop doing that stuff completely.  Some bad habits showed up late in the game Locking into one receiver and throwing the deep post right into the safety are too examples.  Wasnt perfect but  he stood in and got the job done and got the W

[Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yup. There were two IIRC that he got away with throwing against the grain that somewhat rewards bad behavior. But the INT was just a brain fart. There is no way whatsoever that he should be attempting that pass. Just inexcusable. Especially under the game circumstances. 

 

When watching the play live on TV, my wife and I both said when he released the ball, "...good he's throwing it away out of bounds.  He learned from that intentional grounding call."   

 

Then the play continued and our jaws droped when we realized the ball was still in the field of play...

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

A young QB is a mix of flashes, promise, and dumb.  Alert the media

Add 3 wins in 3 games with two 4th quarter comebacks into that mix and you have something really intriguing brewing there...

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Well come on over to the glass half full side and hang out for awhile. Really. You would enjoy it, I think - so much less angst and hand wringing than over on the glass half empty side.

 

When is the "we're 3-0!" parade? It sure was fun in 2008 and 2011.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When is the "we're 3-0!" parade? It sure was fun in 2008 and 2011.

Who cares what happened in 2008 and 2011. Seriously....

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

When watching the play live on TV, my wife and I both said when he released the ball, "...good he's throwing it away out of bounds.  He learned from that intentional grounding call."   

 

Then the play continued and our jaws droped when we realized the ball was still in the field of play...

On the intentional grounding? Yeah, he was just trying to throw it away. The defender hit hit as he was throwing that stopped the ball from going further, which would have been just an incompletion. He could probably have thrown it further which would have negated the penalty. I just assumed he thought he'd get it away before being hit. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When is the "we're 3-0!" parade? It sure was fun in 2008 and 2011.

 

Jesus you are unbearable. Why are you even on here after a win? Maybe you will get your wish and season will end like it did in 2008 and 2011. 

[Westside]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When is the "we're 3-0!" parade? It sure was fun in 2008 and 2011.

Damn, we won. Be happy!?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

9 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Do you have a point?

Yes. But it flew right over your head apparently. 

[BillsFanSD]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

When is the "we're 3-0!" parade? It sure was fun in 2008 and 2011.

I don't understand why it's bad to be happy that we're undefeated after three games?

[Meatloaf63]

14 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Our defensive line continues to look good at batting down passes, both safties look great as always, Hausch is money, the line is much improved and the interior are fantastic on the runs. The thread is about Allen and thats what I'm talking about. His happy feet and deep throws into coverage are weaknesses that will be exploited by better teams. This team is a huge improvement over last year. Everyone has excuses for why he is playing the same way he did in college.  

Yes you’re right, he looks exactly like how he played in college LOL. I’m quite certain you watched all of his college games too!!! Some people... SMH Hilarious I say hilarious....

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, westside2 said:

Damn, we won. Be happy!?

 

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Jesus you are unbearable. Why are you even on here after a win? Maybe you will get your wish and season will end like it did in 2008 and 2011. 

 

I was relieved to beat another bad team and it's better to be 3-0 than not.

 

But I see things for what they actually are and I'll be happy when the Bills are legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

 

Until then I'm not going to hand out free cotton candy and puppies and fart rainbows.

 

But you guys are certainly welcome to do that if that's your jam.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

I was relieved to beat another bad team and it's better to be 3-0 than not.

 

But I see things for what they actually are and I'll be happy when the Bills are legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

 

Until then I'm not going to hand out free cotton candy and puppies and fart rainbows.

 

But you guys are certainly welcome to do that if that's your jam.

Do you honestly believe they should have just soundly beat each of these three teams by 14 points or so and never have to come from behind in three games? 

[ny33]

Plays such as today's interception are simly unacceptable for "developed" quarterbacks in the NFL. Truly elite quarterbacks commit minimal obvious errors, and Josh makes more poor/irrational decisions than most successful quarterbacks did through c. 16 games/in their second season.

 

The pass blocking was extremely poor at times (though often gave him more than enough time to make a decision; the right side gets beaten too early too often, but pass blocking is probably above average otherwise), and, given that the game is still a little fast for him combined with his tendency to lock his vision, loose rushers make me hold my breath. It's incredible how many times today, as in many other games, he dodged free rushers in his peripheral vision at the last second. While his athleticism, strength, and resolve mean that he is not best off just taking the hit and protecting the ball in the pocket, he has far too high a rate of fumbles, or rash passes into coverage due to the above characteristics).

 

But when Josh turns a sack into two missed tackles and jukes a linebacker on the way to a first down or major gain, I gasp in awe at what his athletic ability, refusal to give up on plays, and leadership under pressure enable him to do. Josh has improved measurably, both statistically and via the "eye test," over his short career, not only from last year to this, but also game-by-game. Josh holds onto the ball for far, far, too long still and still has a tendency to lock his eyes and progressions onto a receiver or two. He also has a long way to go with regards to his ability to throw at the right velocity and placement. Last year, Josh would probably have scrambled upfield after evading tacklers in the backfield and heading upfield towards the sideline; this year, we saw a number of plays such as the throw to Knox that he felt comfortable making after being forced to use his legs. Russell Wilson does this extremely well, while lesser QBs generally are just concerned with getting away from the hit.

 

Despite the high frequency of impactful and avoidable mistakes, he's made significant strides in his decision-making with regards to ending a play and moving on to the next down, with an increased propensity to throw the ball out of play, slide, and otherwise reducing the potential for a turnover, and is doing a better job of ensuring that his runs are efficient and prioritize moving the chains/taking himself out of play rather than going for the extra yards. Those were some of his major flaws last year that talented players like Rex Grossman failed to correct over the course of their careers and frustrate fans and management to no end.

 

Barring the interception and a few other plays- I'm most concerned with the lack of improvement in consistently progressing through his looks and exposing himself to blind side hits- I thought his play was generally at the level of a difference maker, at least in the first half and on the game-winning drive. Josh has clearly made significant progress on of his weak points, and I believe that the boneheaded decisions and "heroball tendencies" should continue to become less prevalent with experience. He's clutch, driven, and is truly remarkable, especially for his age, in his belief that any deficit is surmountable and that you should never, never give up.

 

While Darnold was my preference going into last year's draft (obviously we would have had to trade up to get him), and had a number of impressive games last season, the Jets QB is hard to evaluate given the change in coaches from his first to second year, poor leadership, mentorship, and game-planning/execution from Gase, current illness, along with a mediocre offensive line and inconsistent/oft-injured receivers (barring Crowder). While any team should be happy with Mayfield's performance last year, even given the expectations for a #1 pick, it seems that he lacks the maturity, confident humility, and self-reflection/awareness that are so important for success at the highest level, and likely won't be more than an average QB. Bills fans should be thrilled to have Josh; I will happily take his special skill set, mentality, and fortitude along with the wild and rash plays. 

 

Consider Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford. While Ryan is certainly an elite quarterback and future Hall of Famer, there isn't much in his game that stands out (when compared to other elite QBs). Roethlisberger is famed for his ability to take hits and complete a play and will/ability to throw deep balls into coverage; Manning stands out from other Hall of Famers for his ability to make calls on the line and throw off off defenses' tempo/formation. Ryan does everything very well, has a strong mental makeup, and leads the league in fourth quarter comebacks since joining the league. He has virtually everything you could ask for in a quarterback, but there is nothing in his game that we will remember 20 years from now when we reflect on what made the current crop of Hall of Fame quarterbacks special; as such, he's a few notches below Brady and Manning, and slightly behind Roethlisberger in my book.

 

Any NFL team should, of course, be thankful for a QB on Ryan's level, and Josh has a long, long way to go to be in the same stratosphere. But his unique skillset means that the potential is there for Allen to be something truly special if he continues to improve at this rate and corrects the (major) flaws in his game. Stafford has far more talent than Ryan, yet is a middling QB due to his failure to improve the weaknesses in his game that were present at the start of his career, primarily holding the ball too long, inconsistent velocity, and relatively high rate of throws into coverage within 10-20 yards (vs. high risk/high reward throws downfield that would place the opponent in poor field position if intercepted, which Mahomes is never afraid to do). Unlike Stafford, Josh seems to be making major strides in the mental and reactive components of the game, and seems to truly be able to lead under pressure and inspire his teammates through hard work and a desire to just win. I believe that exceptionally talented players drafted 1st overall are often too comfortable with mediocrity, especially when paired with the record contracts that Stafford and Russell received, if they lack the desire to win above everything else. Allen, as the 7th overall pick, obviously doesn't have the same chip on his shoulder as a sixth rounder who was underscouted, in part, due to the worst QB combine performance like Brady, or the undrafted grocery bagger, Kurt Warner. But he should continue to benefit from going the extra mile in preparation and review and the satisfaction of silencing talking heads who look at rookie year completion percentage in isolation as validation that he is fundamentally "inaccurate," or ignore his statistically and visually measurable improvement over the course of last year in favor of simply pointing to his rookie year statline as confirmation that he will not succeed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by ny33

[Jerome007]

I'm a huge Allen fan from day one. This one he was all over the place from great to good to average to bad. A 2nd year player and people expect perfection and mistake free football...

 

Overall, not of his best performance, for sure. But in the end he was clutch, the Bills won, and I'm sure his learning curve took some good steps up!

 

 

[skibum]

Even some of his completions were a little terrifying today.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, ny33 said:

Plays such as today's interception are simly unacceptable for "developed" quarterbacks in the NFL. Truly elite quarterbacks commit minimal obvious errors, and Josh makes more poor/irrational decisions than most successful quarterbacks did through c. 16 games/in their second season.

 

The pass blocking was extremely poor at times, and, given that the game is still a little fast for him combined with his tendency to lock his vision. It's incredible how many times today, as in many other games, he dodged free rushers in his peripheral vision at the last second. While his athleticism, strength, and resolve mean that he is not best off just taking the hit and protecting the ball in the pocket, he has far too high a rate of fumbles, or rash passes into coverage due to the above characteristics).

 

But when Josh turns a sack into two missed tackles and jukes a linebacker on the way to a first down or major gain, I gasp in awe at what his athletic ability, refusal to give up on plays, and leadership under pressure enable him to do. Josh has improved measurably, both statistically and via the "eye test," over his short career, not only from last year to this, but also game-by-game. Josh holds onto the ball for far, far, too long still and still has a tendency to lock his eyes and progressions onto a receiver or two. He also has a long way to go with regards to his ability to throw at the right velocity and placement.

 

Despite the high frequency of impactful and avoidable mistakes, he's made significant strides in his decision-making with regards to ending a play and moving on to the next down, with an increased propensity to throw the ball out of play, slide, and otherwise reducing the potential for a turnover, and is doing a better job of ensuring that his runs are efficient and prioritize moving the chains/taking himself out of play rather than going for the extra yards. Those were some of his major flaws last year that talented players like Rex Grossman failed to correct over the course of their careers and frustrate fans and management to no end.

 

Barring the interception and a few other plays- I'm most concerned with the lack of improvement in consistently progressing through his looks and exposing himself to blind side hits- I thought his play was generally at the level of a difference maker, at least in the first half and on the game-winning drive. Josh has clearly made significant progress on of his weak points, and I believe that the boneheaded decisions and "heroball tendencies" should continue to become less prevalent with experience. He's clutch, driven, and is truly remarkable, especially for his age, in his belief that any deficit is surmountable and that you should never, never give up.

 

While Darnold was my preference going into last year's draft (obviously we would have had to trade up to get him), and had a number of impressive games last season, the Jets QB is hard to evaluate given the change in coaches from his first to second year, poor leadership, mentorship, and game-planning/execution from Gase, current illness, along with a mediocre offensive line and inconsistent/oft-injured receivers (barring Crowder). While any team should be happy with Mayfield's performance last year, even given the expectations for a #1 pick, it seems that he lacks the maturity, confident humility, and self-reflection/awareness that are so important for success at the highest level, and likely won't be more than an average QB. Bills fans should be thrilled to have Josh; I will happily take his special skill set, mentality, and fortitude along with the wild and rash plays. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post.

[Alaska Darin]

Allen is a gamer.  He's still a kid and is occasionally going to make stupid plays...but he's the exact opposite of guys like Tyrod.  He plays his absolute best when the team needs him to lead. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said:

Allen is a gamer.  He's still a kid and is occasionally going to make stupid plays...but he's the exact opposite of guys like Tyrod.  He plays his absolute best when the team needs him to lead. 

 

 

YES. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Alaska Darin said:

Allen is a gamer.  He's still a kid and is occasionally going to make stupid plays...but he's the exact opposite of guys like Tyrod.  He plays his absolute best when the team needs him to lead. 

I don't understand why this is not more obvious to people. It's a huge difference. In 14 or so starts he has five come from behind wins.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I don't understand why this is not more obvious to people. It's a huge difference. In 14 or so starts he has five come from behind wins.  

 

Not only that he's proved pretty effective in situations that used to be guaranteed punts.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes & one stupid play under immense pressure.  

 

And yet again bad mid-game adjustments.....

 

Oh yea the game winning drive was all Allen.....

 

But sure tell me otherwise.

 

Hes playing early career Favre ball where he counters incredibly stupid plays that fail, wth incredibly stupid plays that work, and a whole lot of solid awesomeness in between ... its fun 

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Not only that he's proved pretty effective in situations that used to be guaranteed punts.

He converted a 3rd and 17 and a 1st and 20, something we would have been sunk with the last couple decades. And he does it a lot. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

He converted a 3rd and 17 and a 1st and 20, something we would have been sunk with the last couple decades. And he does it a lot. 

 

Exactly. But hey people are gonna believe what they want to believe.

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Excellent post.

I get woozy after 5,000 words in a post

 

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, Crayola64 said:

Yup, a young qb made a dumb play.  Who cares?  

 

38 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's a pattern. He's being doing it since his days at Wyoming. 

 

Also, winning. That too.

 

[Orlando Tim]

I said before the season that Josh would lose a couple of games with his decisions this year- he had a game today where he almost lost it but was just good enough. I expect his improvement by end of year to be substantial but he is right now not good enough.