Should we Trade Zay Jones?

[wppete]

Zay Jones has not looked good as a Buffalo Bill. He hasn’t been impressive this offseason and we will have some tough decisions to make at WR this year. Do you guys think it’s a good idea to trade Zay and make room for the guys that are showing well in preseason?  This could be our WR this year If we trade Zay.

 

John Brown

Cole Beasley

Robert Foster

Duke Williams

Isaiah Mckenzie

Andre Roberts

 

 

[CaptnCoke11]

I doubt they’d get any compensation for him.  Other teams are also aware he’s not very good 

[Coach Tuesday]

Yes.  Won’t sign him to a second contract and he fits better in a precision offense that schemes to get him open.  Cut bait.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I doubt they’d get any compensation for him.  Other teams are also aware he’s not very good 

They are also aware that he might be released.

[SCBills]

If they think Duke Williams play translates to Regular Season Football, yes - or just cut him. 

 

It just seems like Zay is never on the same page with JA and maybe he just needs a fresh start.   

 

If Roberts is a lock.. Foster backs up Brown as the speed guy.  McKenzie backs up Beasley as the shifty guy and then Duke is the big, physical WR.  

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by SCBills

[eee1776]

Yes-cut him. That holding call last night killed a nice run by McCoy. I believe 24 yards.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

I don't believe they trade or cut Zay. For what they get out of him & what they are paying him(1.8 million cap hit this year, 2.15 million next) why would you do that? He was tied for 16th in the league last year with 7 TD Rec. with a cap hit of 1.5 million. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I'd try and trade Zay for a backup tackle or picks.  If as some suggest Zay has little trade value, (personally I disagree) then would keep him and consider releasing Foster to make room for McKenzie and Williams

 

Zay was one the same page as JA something like 54 times last year.

 

I also think many here are over valuing these WR at the bottom of the depth chart.  They all bring unique attributes to the team, but are also similar in overall abilities.  Are they really better than one of the top 5 or is it just "We can't lose this guy"

[GG]

Should we reopen the miles long thread that discussed this topic?

[Rc2catch]

I think Zay could be a much better player than what he’s shown here, and maybe he just doesn’t click with the coaches here and get it. He may shine on another roster, with that said nobody is going to trade anything of actual value for him. Your talking maybe some sort of conditional 6th or 7th or if we’re lucky some fringe player maybe looking on the outside of another teams 53. I expect he’ll be cut and signed up by someone like Tennessee or Baltimore or something 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

I'd try and trade Zay for a backup tackle or picks.  If as some suggest Zay has little trade value, (personally I disagree) then would keep him and consider releasing Foster to make room for McKenzie and Williams

 

Zay was one the same page as JA something like 54 times last year.

 

I also think many here are over valuing these WR at the bottom of the depth chart.  They all bring unique attributes to the team, but are also similar in overall abilities.  Are they really better than one of the top 5 or is it just "We can't lose this guy"

 

If Duke never off-the-fielded himself out of Auburn and was a 2nd Round Pick, and Zay was the guy we took a flyer on... would we think differently?

 

A guy like Darryl Johnson was a 7th Round Pick but he’s dominating other teams 2nd units and probably makes the team as the 4th DE.  

 

At some point you have to evaluate who guys are now, not where they were/weren’t drafted.  

 

I’d love to keep Zay and he plays well and everyone’s happy, but it just seems like we’re trying so hard to “make Zay happen”.    

 

It shouldn’t be this frustrating with mistakes, drops and miscommunications every game. 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by SCBills

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

If Duke never off-the-fielded himself out of Auburn and was a 2nd Round Pick, and Zay was the guy we took a flyer on... would we think differently?

 

A guy like Darryl Johnson was a 7th Round Pick but he’s dominating other teams 2nd units and probably makes the team as the 4th DE.  

 

At some point you have to evaluate who guys are now, not where they were/weren’t drafted.  

 

I’d love to keep Zay and he plays well and everyone’s happy, but it just seems like we’re trying so hard to “make Zay happen”.    It shouldn’t be this frustrating.  

 

What do you need to see out of Zay? Obviously he's not a #1 WR in the NFL, but I could see him being a good #2 WR in the league. With no #1 WR on the team last year, a bunch of bad QB play from 4 different starters and no running game he had 56 Rec, 652 Yds & 7 TDs with a 1.5 million dollar cap hit. The 7 TDs was tied for 16th in the league last year. That's really, really good value for 1.5 million. He has 2 years left on his contract with cap hits of 1.8 & 2.15 respectfully, there's no good reason to get rid of him when he makes that little.

[Big Turk]

I thought Zay has been fine this preseason.  He is a roster lock and will be much better as a #2 or #3 WR than a #1 WR. He gets open, he makes plays.  Sometimes he drops catchable balls but he has been much better. He also led the Bills in TD catches last year.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

If Duke never off-the-fielded himself out of Auburn and was a 2nd Round Pick, and Zay was the guy we took a flyer on... would we think differently?

 

A guy like Darryl Johnson was a 7th Round Pick but he’s dominating other teams 2nd units and probably makes the team as the 4th DE.  

 

At some point you have to evaluate who guys are now, not where they were/weren’t drafted.  

 

I’d love to keep Zay and he plays well and everyone’s happy, but it just seems like we’re trying so hard to “make Zay happen”.    

 

It shouldn’t be this frustrating with mistakes, drops and miscommunications every game. 

 

 

But the counter argument to that is after he got cut by was it the Rams, no other teams jumped up and signed him then either.

 

Evaluate who guys are now you say.  Well Williams is a guy who couldn't make an NFL roster the last two years.

 

I do have to give Zay somewhat of a pass as the past two seasons QB play has been such a mess, easy to have mistakes and miscommunications

 

Personally I'd rather let see them cut Foster if we want to make room for both.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...first I've heard about any "trade Zay" proposal.......fill me in on to whom and for what please...any INITIAL thoughts on a Shady trade?...just askin'..........

Edited August 24, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[EasternOHBillsFan]

If Duke Williams doesn't make this roster -and- Zay does, I will be shocked.

 

Leading the Bills in TD catches last year is like the player on the USA Soccer Men's Team leading the team in scoring... so what? Our offense was pathetic last season.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, matter2003 said:

I thought Zay has been fine this preseason.  He is a roster lock and will be much better as a #2 or #3 WR than a #1 WR. He gets open, he makes plays.  Sometimes he drops catchable balls but he has been much better. He also led the Bills in TD catches last year.

Exactly!! He's not great, but as a, most likely #3 WR, he will be much better than the average #3 WR. And he makes next to nothing the next 2 years.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

If Duke Williams doesn't make this roster -and- Zay does, I will be shocked.

 

Leading the Bills in TD catches last year is like the player on the USA Soccer Men's Team leading the team in scoring... so what? Our offense was pathetic last season.

He was tied for 16th in the league with 7 Tds, even with our pathetic line, running game, QBing and nothing even close to a #1 WR to draw coverage away from him.

[BarleyNY]

He would net little, if anything, in trade so he stays until the position is upgraded.  He’s certainly not in any long term plans, but this is not a strong or deep WR roster. 

 

He might have a role as Beasley’s back up or second slot WR.  I hate him on the outside. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

22 minutes ago, eee1776 said:

Yes-cut him. That holding call last night killed a nice run by McCoy. I believe 24 yards.

 

That "holding" call consisted of Zay getting pancaked. Weak azz call

[123719bwiqrb]

Say no to Zay, trade him today.  Get a LG that can play, now that Spain is in a boo-tay.  

[Brian3488]

25 minutes ago, eee1776 said:

Yes-cut him. That holding call last night killed a nice run by McCoy. I believe 24 yards.

He looked like he was trying to block a small high school kid, stance was terrible, so he got demolished by the LB and held. Zays time is over, he had enough chances

3 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

That "holding" call consisted of Zay getting pancaked. Weak azz call

He held him the whole way down to take him with him going down

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

9 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

What do you need to see out of Zay? Obviously he's not a #1 WR in the NFL, but I could see him being a good #2 WR in the league. With no #1 WR on the team last year, a bunch of bad QB play from 4 different starters and no running game he had 56 Rec, 652 Yds & 7 TDs with a 1.5 million dollar cap hit. The 7 TDs was tied for 16th in the league last year. That's really, really good value for 1.5 million. He has 2 years left on his contract with cap hits of 1.8 & 2.15 respectfully, there's no good reason to get rid of him when he makes that little.

 

This makes sense. Zay has certainly become the new "whipping boy" for Bills fans. I get that he's had a few gaffes, and a naked bloody escapade, but his production last season (considering the circumstances) probably won't be matched by Foster, Williams, or McKenzie.

[BBills88]

I thought it took 3 years for most NFL receivers be considered a bust or not.

I would see how he does this year.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

4 minutes ago, Brian3488 said:

He looked like he was trying to block a small high school kid, stance was terrible, so he got demolished by the LB and held. Zays time is over, he had enough chances

He held him the whole way down to take him with him going down

 

Meh, he was going down with him anyways IMO. It's a weak call in football. 

[Alphadawg7]

If only someone had suggested that possibility in February around here...

 

I bet if someone DID suggest that in February, then everyone would say "no way",  "that is crazy", "he had a great 2nd year", "thats just a LAMP post", "Your thread title is wrong" and people would suggest he will never live that suggestion down forever.  

 

Good thing no one suggested that...???

Edited August 24, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, BBills88 said:

I thought it took 3 years for most NFL receivers be considered a bust or not.

I would see how he does this year.

?? Only if it's a player they like, otherwise it's the old "eye test".??

[Reader]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If only someone had suggested that possibility in February around here...

 

I bet if someone DID suggest that in February, then everyone would say "no way",  "that is crazy", "he had a great 2nd year", "thats just a LAMP post", "Your thread title is wrong" and people would suggest he will never live that suggestion down forever.  

 

Good thing no one suggested that...???

 

We both know that admitting that someone was wrong is a big no-no on the internet. It's okay, I'm sure you're kicking yourself for not posting something you wish you had ?

[VW82]

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If only someone had suggested that possibility in February around here...

 

I bet if someone DID suggest that in February, then everyone would say "no way",  "that is crazy", "he had a great 2nd year", "thats just a LAMP post", "Your thread title is wrong" and people would suggest he will never live that suggestion down forever.  

 

Good thing no one suggested that...???

 

The problem with that is Zay, Foster, and McKenzie were the only NFL wrs on the roster in Feb. Imagine if we'd traded him (assuming Zay was even tradeable) and FA hadn't gone as planned? I still think Zay gets this season to sink or swim. Foster looks like the guy far more entrenched in the doghouse.   

[eanyills]

10 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

He was tied for 16th in the league with 7 Tds, even with our pathetic line, running game, QBing and nothing even close to a #1 WR to draw coverage away from him.

 

There’s a reason that respected analysts don’t use TD’s to measure players. TD’s aren’t a great indicator of a WR’s actual contributions to the passing game.

 

So Zay caught 7 TD’s last year. If Beasley, Brown, or Duke was in the lineup instead, those TD’s are probably still there just spread out between different pass catchers.

 

Zay’s contributions to the passing game are slightly above replacement level, all things considered, in my opinion.

[Brian3488]

Tbh IMO zay has good route running, stone hands. I think he catches 6/10 balls thrown his way, if not less. Did you guys see the play that should of been OPI on him? The ball was caught in his forearms, they had to rush the next play because they weren't sure he held onto it hitting the ground. If the guy cant get separation from 3rd stringers there's an issue. 

[BuffaloBillies]

Zay's usually good for a couple nice catches in the 4th quarter when we're losing by 32 points.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Not for nothing, but Zay also punched my dog, hates the Toy Story movies and eats his wings with Russian dressing.

[Mikie2times]

I mean, if we can get a great return sure. But you have to figure the injury bug bites at some time. So whatever his role is he will have to contribute and we will need him. 

[purple haze]

19 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

If Duke Williams doesn't make this roster -and- Zay does, I will be shocked.

 

Leading the Bills in TD catches last year is like the player on the USA Soccer Men's Team leading the team in scoring... so what? Our offense was pathetic last season.

One can say the same thing about pre-season stats...  

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

The problem with that is Zay, Foster, and McKenzie were the only NFL wrs on the roster in Feb. Imagine if we'd traded him (assuming Zay was even tradeable) and FA hadn't gone as planned? I still think Zay gets this season to sink or swim. Foster looks like the guy far more entrenched in the doghouse.   

 

I hear ya, but if you recall the post...I said I thought Zay would be traded in preseason, not then the offseason. I made that post before Free Agency and I predicted we would bring in 2 to 3 new WR's, and we brought in 3 with Duke, Brown, and Cole.  I said I thought he would get every shot at this team but would struggle to stand out against better competition.  And if he slipped down the depth chart he could be a guy Beane would try and get some value for before being in a reserve role for a season would kill all trade value.  

 

Everything I suggested in February has pretty much gone that way so far.  The only thing left, is will he be traded (or even cut, but I still doubt he would get outright cut).  Brown took the top spot, Cole took the slot spot, and Zay has failed to lock down a starting spot and has not risen to the occasion anywhere during preseason and even dropped a TD last week and a first down this week with the ones.  

 

He still clearly has a shot to be a part of this team, but I think its proven out that the concerns I voiced then are still the concerns now and that his roster spot is not a lock.  

Edited August 24, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yet it was by Foster last year over the same stretch of games.  Also, Foster had three 100 yard games in the last 7 games...Not only has Zay not matched that, he has never had a single 100 game in 31 career games.  

 

He had 3 TDs. Zay more than doubled that.

 

Foster certainly offers more big play ability than Jones, and has a higher target %. I personally am not opposed to moving on from Jones, nor would I be surprised. His extensive playing time last night may be an indicator that the staff is more willing to move on than we thought. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If you recall the post...I said I thought Zay would be traded in preseason, not then.  I made that post BEFORE Free Agency...I predicted we would bring in 2 to 3 new WR's, and we brought in 3 with Duke, Brown, and Cole.  I said I thought he would get every shot at this team but would struggle to stand out against better competition.  And if he slipped down the depth chart he could be a guy Beane would try and get some value for before being in a reserve role for a season would kill all trade value.  

 

Everything I suggested in February has happened exactly as I laid out.  The only thing left, is will he be traded (or even cut, but I still doubt he would get outright cut).  Brown took the top spot, Cole took the slot spot, and Zay has failed to lock down a starting spot and has not risen to the occasion anywhere during preseason and even dropped a TD last week and a first down this week with the ones.  

 

He still clearly has a shot to be a part of this team, but I think its proven out that the concerns I voiced then are still the concerns now and that his roster spot is not a lock.  

 

 

I begrudge you nothing.  It hasn’t happened yet, but your thoughts and comments from that time are spot on so far and do warrant a victory lap, to a degree.

 

 

[Rocket94]

Appears to be a consensus to cut Zay Jones. Question is, how long does a coaching staff wait on a 2nd round pick? The window appears to be closing because the Bills have so many young and determined players.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

He had 3 TDs. Zay more than doubled that.

 

Foster certainly offers more big play ability than Jones, and has a higher target %. I personally am not opposed to moving on from Jones, nor would I be surprised. His extensive playing time last night may be an indicator that the staff is more willing to move on than we thought. 

 

Zay had 4 against MIAMI.  Pump the brakes.