Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-Season Game 1

[Joe Miner]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That pass hit him in the hands, in stride. A mediocre NFL WR catches it 9/10 times.

 

It looked exactly like a pass potential NFL players get at the combine that they're expected to catch.

 

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

I thought Singletary had a great game and looked good

 

 

This^^^^ I did not see the OP’s take on the guy.  He was not drafted for speed and athletic prowess.  He was drafted for what is being called elite vision and the ability to hit small holes making something out of nothing.  Is the guy headed for Canton?  Probably not.  Will the guy make the roster and become a solid rotational player? Yes, this appears to be the case.  I really think the Bills are headed in the direction of most NFL teams, running back by committee.  If so, they have some horses in the stable to play this way.

[thebandit27]

Just now, DCOrange said:

I mean, sure he could have led him a little more than that, but it pretty much hit him dead on. He didn't have to reach back for it or anything. Ignoring the incoming tackler, this is a very easy catch.

 

Great throw that should've been a TD.

 

Case closed...unless someone's got an agenda 

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The defender was about to take his head off

 

See I thought the hit to the head only happened because he dropped the ball and fell to the ground fumbling for it. And I'd have more patience for that reasoning if he had ever made a single contested catch in his career. Still waiting for him to hit that milestone.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

I mean, sure he could have led him a little more than that, but it pretty much hit him dead on. He didn't have to reach back for it or anything. Ignoring the incoming tackler that might have been able to knock it loose, this is a very easy catch.

 

The only time I think it's really behind a WR is he has has to stop his momentum in one direction and change it.  Zay didn't have to do that.  So the ball was in the middle of his face mask instead of 3 inches on the right side of his face mask.  This is not just one of those catchable balls...this is a ball that needs to be caught and equivalent to a short stop letting a ground ball go through his legs.

[SirAndrew]

12 minutes ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

I think that was the play where Tasker wanted to blame the sun and not Jones.  It was definitely not a perfect pass, but it did hit both hands.

Didn’t some people blame the sun when he dropped that pass against Carolina his rookie season? 

[Canadian Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

This^^^^ I did not see the OP’s take on the guy.  He was not drafted for speed and athletic prowess.  He was drafted for what is being called elite vision and the ability to hit small holes making something out of nothing.  Is the guy headed for Canton?  Probably not.  Will the guy make the roster and become a solid rotational player? Yes, this appears to be the case.  I really think the Bills are headed in the direction of most NFL teams, running back by committee.  If so, they have some horses in the stable to play this way.

 

 

I would even say he will become our starting RB in 2-3 years

[SirAndrew]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

See I thought the hit to the head only happened because he dropped the ball and fell to the ground fumbling for it. And I'd have more patience for that reasoning if he had ever made a single contested catch in his career. Still waiting for him to hit that milestone.

Yep, that’s why when you’re in traffic you might as well catch the ball. No use for alligator arms when you’re going to get hit anyway. Easy for me to say, but as a pro that’s what you need to do. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by SirAndrew

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Great throw that should've been a TD.

 

Case closed...unless someone's got an agenda 

Yeah, should have caught, tucked and got down. DB came in with forearm after Zay knee hit. Dirty hit?

[Solomon Grundy]

Is Bad Ducasse cut yet??

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

20 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Catchable, but behind him. You throw that in the hole between the DBs and lead the WR into the endzone.

 

I see people at my touch football league make that catch.  That throw is fine.  It's in a place where the DB cannot make a play on the ball.

[AllenLongBall]

18 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That pass hit him in the hands, in stride. A mediocre NFL WR catches it 9/10 times.

 

But it was not in stride...

[chris heff]

I’m still not convinced Zay is anything, he heard footsteps and flat out dropped that ball. I hope they don’t keep him just because they drafted him.

 

Shaq is better than Trent.

 

Defense is going to be good and has depth.

 

Offensive line will be better, but it would have to be. Still worried about center. 

 

Was it just me or were TE invisible?

[oldmanfan]

22 minutes ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

Hit both hands yes, but the pass was behind.  Don't know if you saw the Cards game after the Bills game at all, but watching Murray throw with anticipation, leading receivers etc, that's accuracy....  A poorly thrown ball can hit a receiver on both hands, but if the receiver has to react/contort to catch, it reduces the odds of completion.  Having said that, Jones being the receiver is the biggest problem on that play

It was not behind him.  It was right on him.  What game were you watching?

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Didn’t some people blame the sun when he dropped that pass against Carolina his rookie season? 

 

Yep it's been the same excuses for 3 years. It's time to admit he just isn't any good as a starter. He would be a solid #4 option.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

On the Zay drop, the throw wasn't bad. It did look like the sun played a role. The shadows on the field were very long, and it looked like the ball traveled from being under the shadow of the stadium, into sunlight just before it got to Zay, and the ball was in his face. That being said, it looked like Zay took his eyes off the ball before he caught it, maybe sensing an incoming defender. Should he have caught it? Yes, but it may have been a bit more difficult of a catch as it's being made out to be. I think we've seen worse drops from Zay.

[DCOrange]

3 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

On the Zay drop, the throw wasn't bad. It did look like the sun played a role. The shadows on the field were very long, and it looked like the ball traveled from being under the shadow of the stadium, into sunlight just before it got to Zay, and the ball was in his face. That being said, it looked like Zay took his eyes off the ball before he caught it, maybe sensing an incoming defender. Should he have caught it? Yes, but it may have been a bit more difficult of a catch as it's being made out to be. I think we've seen worse drops from Zay.

 

Yeah, that's kind of the problem lol

[GG]

21 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Great throw that should've been a TD.

 

Case closed...unless someone's got an agenda 

 

You can make an argument that the drop led to the injury.  If he holds on to the ball, he'd be in a better position to brace for the hit.  Instead, he's flailing for the loose ball and is totally unprotected when he comes down awkwardly.

[cd1]

36 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I may be in the minority, but maybe we should give Zay Jones a break on that drop.

 

Nobody wants to get hurt in preseason, on a meaningless play that won't count.

The defender was about to take his head off.  You really can't blame him for bracing himself and losing focus.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I believe this is Zay's last chance to prove himself as a starter on the Bills.  The talent around him is getting much better.  If the drop problems continue into this season,  I don't see him getting much playing time going forward.  

 

 

 

 

Just how far away should a defender be for it to be SAFE for a receiver to catch a ball? 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by cd1

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

38 minutes ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

Hit both hands yes, but the pass was behind.  Don't know if you saw the Cards game after the Bills game at all, but watching Murray throw with anticipation, leading receivers etc, that's accuracy....  A poorly thrown ball can hit a receiver on both hands, but if the receiver has to react/contort to catch, it reduces the odds of completion.  Having said that, Jones being the receiver is the biggest problem on that play

Maybe you should change your Avatar to Kyler Murray.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I mean, sure he could have led him a little more than that, but it pretty much hit him dead on. He didn't have to reach back for it or anything. Ignoring the incoming tackler that might have been able to knock it loose, this is a very easy catch.

 

Yep. If he had dropped it while being smashed in the neck then I would cut Zay some slack. But he was fighting with the ball the moment it reached him and he had dropped it before the defender made contact. 

[SirAndrew]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You can make an argument that the drop led to the injury.  If he holds on to the ball, he'd be in a better position to brace for the hit.  Instead, he's flailing for the loose ball and is totally unprotected when he comes down awkwardly.

Awkward is the best word to describe Zay on the field. Nothing about his athletic motion is fluid or smooth. Whether running his routes, or attempting to catch the football, I haven’t seen someone who positions their body in such awkward ways so frequently on the football field. 

[oldmanfan]

If people are going to nitpick Allen on the throw to Jones on the 2 yard line, then you might as well just say there will never be a successful QB in Buffalo in the eyes of such fans.  If hitting a guy right in the hands doesn't suffice for some there's really not much to say.  And spare me the he should have led him more on that throw; if he had the safety that was closing would have either knocked the ball out or knocked Jones out. 

 

Allen missed a throw or two, no question.  That throw wasn't one of them   I saw him going through progressions more than he did last year, going to his outlet in Beasley (who will be very busy this year it seems), throwing it away (the ball to the TE was put where only he could catch up to it, and if not then a good throw away).  Things you want to see a young QB start to get. 

Just now, SirAndrew said:

Awkward is the best word to describe Zay on the field. Nothing about his athletic motion is fluid or smooth. Whether running his routes, or attempting to catch the football, I haven’t seen someone who positions their body in such awkward ways so frequently on the football field. 

I think it's mental. The guy set an NCAA pass receiving record;  it's not like he can't catch a football.  But he fights it.  I thought he'd catch the first TD pass of te year; I'm not so sure he makes the roster if guys like Phillips keep playing well.

[Royale with Cheese]

43 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

I may be in the minority, but maybe we should give Zay Jones a break on that drop.

 

Nobody wants to get hurt in preseason, on a meaningless play that won't count.

The defender was about to take his head off.  You really can't blame him for bracing himself and losing focus.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I believe this is Zay's last chance to prove himself as a starter on the Bills.  The talent around him is getting much better.  If the drop problems continue into this season,  I don't see him getting much playing time going forward.  

 

 

 

 

 

If he secures the catch immediately, he’s not taking as big a shot.  When he bobbled it, he slowed down his own momentum.  He catches it cleanly, he’s should be running in the end zone up right or at least a dive into the endzone.  

 

 

Am I right @Alphadawg7?

Edited August 9, 2019 by Royale with Cheese

[Juice_32]

1 hour ago, SWATeam said:

Tremaine looked to be playing much faster.  This D is going to be tremendous.

 

Loved the throws to Beasley, and the comeback to Brown.

 

This was my main takeaway on the defensive side. Edmunds looks be reading things at an incredible pace. He was in the right gap instantly on every run. Granted its pre-season and there wasnt a ton of misdirection from the Colts, which he struggled with some last year, but he played at warp speed last night.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

12 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

Yeah, that's kind of the problem lol

 

And I think that might be a part of why he is being chastised as much for this one in particular. 

[bigK14094]

39 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Didn’t some people blame the sun when he dropped that pass against Carolina his rookie season? 

That drop was the game, would have put the Bills up by one.  I remember it well.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, bigK14094 said:

That drop was the game, would have put the Bills up by one.  I remember it well.

 

Wasn't a drop.... he didn't get close enough to it for it to be a drop..... on that occassion though it was 50/50 on Zay and a poor throw from the Quarterback. This time there was nothing wrong with Allen's throw.

[Juice_32]

46 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I mean, sure he could have led him a little more than that, but it pretty much hit him dead on. He didn't have to reach back for it or anything. Ignoring the incoming tackler that might have been able to knock it loose, this is a very easy catch.

 

Perfect throw, Zay had his eyes on the safety and not the ball.

[yungmack]

49 minutes ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

Hit both hands yes, but the pass was behind.  Don't know if you saw the Cards game after the Bills game at all, but watching Murray throw with anticipation, leading receivers etc, that's accuracy....  A poorly thrown ball can hit a receiver on both hands, but if the receiver has to react/contort to catch, it reduces the odds of completion.  Having said that, Jones being the receiver is the biggest problem on that play

A comment never forgotten from a friend when we were kids playing football in the street: "If you can touch it you can catch it." 

[cage]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Zay Jones might be the least efficient WR, and pound for pound possibly the worst player, in the entire league.  I am not exaggerating.

 

How is that measured??

[TigerJ]

I don't think there is much evaluation of Tyree Jackson going on.  He will make the PS or not mostly based on his athleticism and skill set, and what he does in a practice setting.  He's not a threat at all to make the 53 man roster.

[Juice_32]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Allen is never going to be a top completion % guy, IMO. He just isn't the most accurate QB and likes to take his low % shots down the field, but will make up for the misses with the big plays he hits down the field and his athletic ability, IMO. He really is a unique QB. 

 

This is a fair take and I agree.

[Royale with Cheese]

31 minutes ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

But it was not in stride...

 

It seems as though you have an agenda.  Zay didn't need to slow down or change his direction to catch this ball.

 

The ball literally, and I mean literally was right between his eyes.  If that ball goes through his hands and he's not wearing a helmet, he's going to have a lump right above the bridge of his nose.  It's a terrible drop.

[AllenLongBall]

2 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

Perfect throw, Zay had his eyes on the safety and not the ball.

 

He did not lead Zay into the endzone, Zay had to rotate his torso 90 deg.  That is NOT a "perfect" pass like some here want to claim.  It should have been caught, but c'mon with the perfect pass stuff.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, CLTbills said:

Only really saw one bad throw from Josh, which was the one at Zay's feet on 3rd and I think 5. 

 

There was also the deep overthrow. I think to Zay. It was over thrown quite a bit. Probably close to 5 yards.

 

And I hate those 11 yard sacks on the naked bootlegs. Remember seeing those at least a couple times last year. Drive killers and sometimes FG killers. I know you can't really put that at the feet of Josh Allen. But maybe we should consider blocking the outside linebacker.

 

I'm worried about Haushka. He missed a 30 something yarder last night and is coming off a sub par year.

[AllenLongBall]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It seems as though you have an agenda.  Zay didn't need to slow down or change his direction to catch this ball.

 

The ball literally, and I mean literally was right between his eyes.  If that ball goes through his hands and he's not wearing a helmet, he's going to have a lump right above the bridge of his nose.  It's a terrible drop.

 

No agenda, just was not a perfect pass like some here want to claim.

 

You know, hoping Allen is great won't make him great

 

I want him to be great, but in order for that to happen I need to see more consistent accuracy.

 

In their first starts, Daniel Jones & Kyler Murray showed better accuracy. This is disconcerting for Allen IMO.

Edited August 9, 2019 by AllenLongBall

[Juice_32]

Just now, AllenLongBall said:

 

He did not lead Zay into the endzone oncoming defender, Zay had to rotate his torso 90 deg.  That is NOT a "perfect" pass like some here want to claim.  It should have been caught, but c'mon with the perfect pass stuff.

 

Fixed. He gave him a perfect window to make the pay and not get killed. Zay botched it and got killed anyway.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, AllenLongBall said:

 

He did not lead Zay into the endzone, Zay had to rotate his torso 90 deg.  That is NOT a "perfect" pass like some here want to claim.  It should have been caught, but c'mon with the perfect pass stuff.

 

So the better option would have been to lead Zay directly into the safety for a big hit?

[Jay_Fixit]

I remember many, if not most people saying how Ronald Darby was getting burned left and right in his first preseason. How he was going to be a bust.

 

I saw differently and said that he was actually playing quite well. Was always in position and was always stuck to his guy.

 

He went on to have a great rookie year.

 

I feel the same way about Singletary after one game.