Best Team since when?

[foreboding]

We are nothing if not optimists every damn year.

 

When is the last time you truly think we had a team that you think seemed to have this level of talent?

And also, why do only a few media pundits see it? Are we all wearing the proverbial red, white and blue glasses?

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/01/mmqb-buffalo-bills-have-their-best-roster-in-years/

 

 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

2015 coming off a 9-7 season with an elite defense and then adding harvin, clay, and Richie.... and the hype got even more crazy after the home opener when they dismantled the colts and the old qb looked for real.

 

EDIT: we also traded for McCoy. how could I forget that? HAHA.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[brianb386]

If Allen takes the step I predict he will, then this will be the best team since at least 1999.

[Buffalo Boy]

Truthfully, When Whaley won the offseason. 

However, JA seems like the real deal and better than any QB we’ve had since Bledsoe.

McDermott seems like a better coach than any since Phillips.

Beane seems like a better GM since Polian

I truly believe we are at the beginning of perennial playoff contention..

 

[CountryCletus]

1999

 

[thurst44]

3 minutes ago, foreboding said:

We are nothing if not optimists every damn year.

 

When is the last time you truly think we had a team that you think seemed to have this level of talent?

And also, why do only a few media pundits see it? Are we all wearing the proverbial red, white and blue glasses?

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/01/mmqb-buffalo-bills-have-their-best-roster-in-years/

 

 

 

I'd say as of now, this is probably the best I've felt about the team since 2004 and a couple late acquisitions or early wins from feeling like it could be best I felt about team since before that dark day the three Hall of Famers were released.

 

As for national press, the one thing I find telling is that the local press, which is usually fairly negative, but sees all that is happening, have been cautiously optimistic. I've seen three post-draft predictions and they've been 9-7, 9-7, 10-6. The national press is looking for what sells and there can only be so many chic teams. The Jets and Browns are sucking up all the atmosphere. It's ultimately that their moves have been more splashy, while ours have been methodical. While their moves were splashy (Bell, Mosley), we built more depth than they did, because we were a better team going in. People forget what a train wreck the Jets were at the end of the season, while after we gave the Jets their only win in the last 11 games, we had a winning record after that. It's harder to put what the Bills are doing into a sound bite. People understand Le'Veon Bell more than Beane's unique manner of fixing the line so Allen can grow.

 

What I marvel at a bit is the cognitive dissonance. There's a general consensus that the Bills had one of the better off-seasons and one of the better drafts, but also that they are going to somehow not improve or even backtrack.

Whatever: usually this bothers me more than it should, but I feel like regardless we are going to have an interesting pre-season full of compelling stories, and an exciting team to watch, a team that actually plays with passion and direction who we will feel happy for which to root. 

[Jay_Fixit]

2004.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Jay_Fixit

[row_33]

cripes... hmmmmm............... well........

 

the third year of the Jim Kelly Era, the first two were pitiful and then mediocre despite expectations.

 

Not sure if you can jump to AFC Championship Game in one year from pitiful in this day and age.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by row_33

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Good article over in the news section I wanted to highlight in case you haven't seen it yet, relevant to this thread:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2019/05/01/could-the-buffalo-bills-be-on-the-threshold-of-a-new-golden-age/#17d79c326812

 

He makes a compelling argument, imho. The question is, will it take 3 years for this era to get really really good like the K-Gun Bills, or can we fast forward in the second year of Allen?  

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

2015 coming off a 9-7 season with an elite defense and then adding harvin, clay, and Richie.... and the hype got even more crazy after the home opener when they dismantled the colts and the old qb looked for real.

 

 

Yeah the 2015 roster was better than what it looks like they have now.    

 

One of the things that stands out about this roster is the lack of actual star players.

 

There are some guys we hope will be........Allen, Edmunds, Foster, Dawkins, Oliver.........but no actual hardware like the recent All Pros like the 2015 team sported.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the 2015 roster was better than what it looks like they have now.    

 

One of the things that stands out about this roster is the lack of actual star players.

 

There are some guys we hope will be........Allen, Edmunds, Foster, Dawkins, Oliver.........but no actual hardware like the recent All Pros like the 2015 team sported.

also traded for McCoy. how in the world could I have forgotten that part. LOL.

[foreboding]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the 2015 roster was better than what it looks like they have now.    

 

One of the things that stands out about this roster is the lack of actual star players.

 

There are some guys we hope will be........Allen, Edmunds, Foster, Dawkins, Oliver.........but no actual hardware like the recent All Pros like the 2015 team sported.

I guess that is where the faith in McDermott and his ability to actually coach the best talent and scheme out of his players comes into play. 6 wins out of that squad last year was something.

[row_33]

but i'm not wanting a team to piddle around with a fluke playoff season, i want serious building and contention

 

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Really. Never played a game yet.  Paper champs. Seen this many many times

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the 2015 roster was better than what it looks like they have now.    

 

One of the things that stands out about this roster is the lack of actual star players.

 

There are some guys we hope will be........Allen, Edmunds, Foster, Dawkins, Oliver.........but no actual hardware like the recent All Pros like the 2015 team sported.

I hear you, but I feel like New England has shown many times that you can still win it all in today's NFL with a group of good, not necessarily great, supporting casts around a franchise QB. I feel like we're getting plenty solid, now it's time to see how it all gels on the actual field.  

[Chuck Wagon]

We have 1 blue chip player (White), a couple guys just below that level (Hyde, Hughes) and some very interesting young players (Allen, Edmunds, Oliver).  Other than that it's a roster full of very solid role players or huge question marks.

 

Frankly I don't see what some see where they think we are a piece or two away from Super Bowl contention and we are getting hated on nationally.  Seems like national perception is pretty spot on, it's pretty widely recognized McBeane seem to be doing a pretty solid job of adding "blue collar" guys who put the work in and are capable of being better than the sum of the parts, but still need a lot of things to go right to make a playoff appearance.

 

I think it's entirely possible we are a much improved team but don't catch some breaks and end up back at 6-10 again.

[CuddyDark]

Toughest team to judge. Given Beane's record with FA it's tough to say the OL will be better. There will be tape on the QB. It could be a stagnate season or they could blossom. Have to at least see game one for a true understanding of who they are. Probably out to game 3 really. I trust McDermott is the only reason I think they'll be better than 7 wins. How much better, who knows?

[4_kidd_4]

Ah yes, this ol’ annual chestnut....

[eball]

14 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

2004.

 

Probably this, although I did have high hopes in 2015.  I was still under the delusion Rex was a good coach based upon the year he got 8-8 out of a crappy Jets team.

[bkep32]

Hopefully the FA signings and a solid draft it can translate to on field success.  It still may not partake until 2020.  But i do bill-eve this is the best team we had in 15 years going into the new season.  Once again buffalo rings you back in with high hopes.

[eball]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the 2015 roster was better than what it looks like they have now.    

 

One of the things that stands out about this roster is the lack of actual star players.

 

There are some guys we hope will be........Allen, Edmunds, Foster, Dawkins, Oliver.........but no actual hardware like the recent All Pros like the 2015 team sported.

 

Hughes, McCoy, Morse (we think), Ford (we hope), Tre White, Hyde/Poyer -- in addition to those you've mentioned.  Of course, Hughes and Shady were around in 2015.

 

With a good coach and better QB the 2015 team should have been a playoff team.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Hughes, McCoy, Morse (we think), Ford (we hope), Tre White, Hyde/Poyer -- in addition to those you've mentioned.  Of course, Hughes and Shady were around in 2015.

 

With a good coach and better QB the 2015 team should have been a playoff team.

i'd put most of that 2015 season on the coach. it was the one real solid season for the qb…. if ryan even just holds serve with the defensive side they go no less than 10-6 IMO. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, foreboding said:

I guess that is where the faith in McDermott and his ability to actually coach the best talent and scheme out of his players comes into play. 6 wins out of that squad last year was something.

 

I think McD made an awful mistake switching from the Roman offense that they had in place.   Terrible choice on his part.   The offense the past 2 seasons has been an epic disaster even by Bills standards.   At one point well into last season they were on pace to be the worst scoring team since the merger I believe.   His defense works well though.

 

In fairness to the perception of Rex not coaching his team up.........in 2013 he did his best coaching job and of course there were the years that he got the lowly Jets deep into the playoffs and even beat the Pats in the playoffs.   He got a ton of effort and production out of patched together rosters.    Wheels came off in 2014 but that happens when a coach is dead man walking........see Andy Reid's 4-12 finish in Philly.

 

So it wasn't yet entirely clear that Rex was going to mail in his coaching effort on defense.      

[NewEra]

1999.  2004 is a close 2nd

Edited May 2, 2019 by NewEra

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, foreboding said:

We are nothing if not optimists every damn year.

 

When is the last time you truly think we had a team that you think seemed to have this level of talent?

And also, why do only a few media pundits see it? Are we all wearing the proverbial red, white and blue glasses?

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/01/mmqb-buffalo-bills-have-their-best-roster-in-years/

 

I'll believe when we're playing well and consistently in games. 

I'm happy with the draft.  I'm happy with the way the D played at times this year.  I'm hopeful about Allen and hopeful the OL coaching change and FA additions on OL plus Ford addressed the OL issues.  I think our WR corps is in its best shape since 2016.  I want to believe that Daboll can be a good OC and was just missing enough tools last year.  But none of it is proven yet.  It's all potential.  So I'll wait and see.

 

Honest answer to your question:  I thought the team had more talent going into 2015.   We had just fielded the #4 D the previous year, and it was solid #4 on yards, #4 on points not the mismatch between yds and points we had last year which tells us stats mavens "eh, something's not as it seems, look under the hood further".  It was legit, everyone across the league acknowledged it.  No reason the D couldn't repeat or improve, and a top-10 unit on one side of the ball with a top-half unit on the other - teams can see playoffs with that. 

 

Would we get that top-half offense without a QB?  Roman and his proven record of winning with a strong run game/run-threat limited passer combined with Taylor and McCoy looked like a plausible strategy to improvefrom bottom-half of the league to at least #10-12 (and I was exactly right about that).  I liked the addition of 'Cog and thought Henderson would trend up at RT in his 2nd season.  I liked Kromer as OL coach. Watkins, Woods, Hogan, and Goodwin were a talented WR corps. 

I was skeptical about Sexy Rexy but after a parent's party where a HOF NFL player whose kids went to school with mine told me all the wonderful things Rex would do with the team and stories about how difficult his D scheme was to play against, how could I not believe?   Long term we would still need "The Man" at QB and some good draft additions, but meanwhile we seemed to have a plan to make the team genuinely competitive.   It was "on".  Playoffs, get ready.  We're going. 

 

Ahem. 

I'm happy you're happy, and I hope all your dreams for this team come true, because they're my dreams too.  But the media pundits don't see it because so far it's all potential, and while we should have improved the team, it remains to be seen how far.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

As for national press, the one thing I find telling is that the local press, which is usually fairly negative, but sees all that is happening, have been cautiously optimistic. I've seen three post-draft predictions and they've been 9-7, 9-7, 10-6.

 

I agree, it's a positive sign.  On the one hand, bear in mind that the Chief Nabobs of Negativity are no longer part of the local press corps.  Still, more measured reporters who genuinely know something such as John Wawrow seem positive about the new regime.

 

At least there are no longer allusions to churn behind the scenes and dysfunction junction.  When Beane and McDermott disagree (and I'm sure they do at times), they seem able to shut the door and take the gloves off and hash it out in private, as should be done. 

 

Part of me says the more positive local media coverage is a good sign, and part of me says "well, but, that's kind of a low bar".

 

Let me ask you this: would 9-7 this year satisfy you as a sign the team is moving in the right direction?  We were 9-7 in 2017.  We had 3 games that we lost by 7, 4, and 4 points last year - meaning we were a couple of dropped balls, penalties, or missed tackles away from 9-7 this year.  I guess for me, it would depend on the other games.  If the blowouts stop, we improve substantially in offensive production, and we're within 12-15 points of going 12-4, I would feel pretty good about 9-7.

 

41 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

The national press is looking for what sells and there can only be so many chic teams. The Jets and Browns are sucking up all the atmosphere

 

The national press sees Mayfield as "all that" and Darnold as high potential, but Allen as "fool's gold", a meme generator "Josh Allen Jumping Over Things", and a surprisingly effective RB with a Howitzer arm.  That's how it's going to be until Allen demonstrates he can lead an NFL-level passing game - make the reads, hit the slants, throw the dumpoff to enable YAC.

 

[Flip Johnson]

59 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Truthfully, When Whaley won the offseason. 

However, JA seems like the real deal and better than any QB we’ve had since Bledsoe.

McDermott seems like a better coach than any since Phillips.

Beane seems like a better GM since Polian

I truly believe we are at the beginning of perennial playoff contention..

 

 

I feel better about the franchise than I have in 25+ years - smart people with the trust of ownership that are implementing a cohesive vision.

 

Similar to the Bears in 2018, we are setup to contend for the next 3 years of JA's contract. If he ascends into a star and gets elite money, then we could have a 10-year run of contention. But he is good enough today to have this team in the mix for the playoffs this year.

[skibum]

2015, which was a stacked roster on paper at that time. Mario, Jerry, Richie, McCoy, Cordy Glenn, Aaron WIlliams, Sammy and Robert Woods at WR, a full compliment of solid OL, Kyle, Dareus, GIlmore/Darby, Clay (who was still considered really good at the time). 

 

And what happened? Mediocrity. 

 

That's why I'm not getting too pumped up about this year. Remember, there are 31 other teams also trying to win. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, row_33 said:

cripes... hmmmmm............... well........

 

the third year of the Jim Kelly Era, the first two were pitiful and then mediocre despite expectations.

 

Not sure if you can jump to AFC Championship Game in one year from pitiful in this day and age.

 

Good Q. 

Rams took 2 years.  Pitiful 2016, WC 2017, SB 2018.

Colts, Pitiful 2017, Division 2018 - may be a special case because their QB returned from injury?

Vikes, mediocre 2016, Championship 2017, back to mediocre this year - probably not what you're thinking of for turn around

Iggles, 2016 7-9 - not pitiful, but certainly mediocre or hapless - SB 2017 in Pederson's 2nd year, division in 2018 albeit with "meh" record

Falcons, 2015 8-8,  2016 SB, 2017 Division

Seasnakes 7-9 in 2011 (Carroll's 2nd year), 11-5 and Division 2012, SB 2013

 

Kind of looks like maybe 3 years to go from pitiful to AFC Champ game in a sustainable way, maybe.  Shorter road if you're "meh"

 

 

 

 

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

2004.

 

This would be my guess.  It's all up to Allen.

[K-9]

The beginning of time!

 

Or at least since sliced bread. 

[Buffalo Boy]

22 minutes ago, skibum said:

2015, which was a stacked roster on paper at that time. Mario, Jerry, Richie, McCoy, Cordy Glenn, Aaron WIlliams, Sammy and Robert Woods at WR, a full compliment of solid OL, Kyle, Dareus, GIlmore/Darby, Clay (who was still considered really good at the time). 

 

And what happened? Mediocrity. 

 

That's why I'm not getting too pumped up about this year. Remember, there are 31 other teams also trying to win. 

One difference ......QB  innate leadership ability.

Josh Allen is the man, not because he says so. He’s the man because he’s out there laying it on the line Fearlessly.  

[jletha]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

One difference ......QB  innate leadership ability.

Josh Allen is the man, not because he says so. He’s the man because he’s out there laying it on the line Fearlessly.  

People also loved Tyrods leadership. He was very impressive in the beginning and, like JA, everyone assumed he would take steps to develop as he played more, but he really didnt. That 2015 was stacked, especially with offensive talent. That team was much better than the team that eventually made the playoffs IMO.

 

I also remember being very excited for 2012. We had just come off the season when we started 5-2 before we stalled and finished 7-9 but we signed Mario and Mark Anderson. Fitz and Stevie had good chemistry, Spiller was supposed to be a top RB, drafted Gilmore.

[Jobot]

2008 when Donte Whitner guaranteed we'd make the playoffs.  I was 100% on board.

 

We started 5-1 > Trent Edwards Injury > Finished 7-9

[Buffalo Boy]

19 minutes ago, jletha said:

People also loved Tyrods leadership. He was very impressive in the beginning and, like JA, everyone assumed he would take steps to develop as he played more, but he really didnt. That 2015 was stacked, especially with offensive talent. That team was much better than the team that eventually made the playoffs IMO.

 

I also remember being very excited for 2012. We had just come off the season when we started 5-2 before we stalled and finished 7-9 but we signed Mario and Mark Anderson. Fitz and Stevie had good chemistry, Spiller was supposed to be a top RB, drafted Gilmore.

    SOME people liked TT’s leadership.

I was in the “ Didn’t see it” camp. He didn’t have a lick of Rah Rah in him. I didn’t see his demeanor ,on or off the field, have a noticeable effect in his teammates.

    The last one we had was Fitsy. God bless him, he has created a long career for himself on “ Moxie”. But he doesn’t hold a torch to JA due to arm strength and stature. One thing they both share that TT didn’t posses was a belief in their ability to put the ball into a tight spot....... back to JAs arm strength, at least when throwing digs and outs.

    

[bigK14094]

53 guys who mostly didn't know each other until now, doesn't make a team.  Especially in complex offensive situation.  Allen will have familiar pieces around him  NOT!!!  He will have lets see....Shady....a couple of receivers...one TE and Demarco who know the O.  the rest will be learning and will be rookies to some degree, even though they are experienced pro's in many cases.  I am not looking for a big improvement this year,, that comes next year imho.  8-8 max.......

[Buffalo Boy]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Bledsoe sucked here.... no idea why people thought he was good outside of an 8 game stretch. His 2003 season was truly awful. Should've been cut after that year.

Breaking some of our all time greatest QBs passing records means he must have done something laudable that first year. 

But, yes, that second season was BRUTAL.

[Rico]

2005, I was much more optimistic that year than 2004. 2003 was a disaster. In 2005, they were coming off a great run where they should’ve been in the playoffs, and Brain Dead Drew was finally gone. 

 

Unfortunately, the JP-era didn’t go as planned.

[Pete]

1999

[thurst44]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The national press sees Mayfield as "all that" and Darnold as high potential, but Allen as "fool's gold", a meme generator "Josh Allen Jumping Over Things", and a surprisingly effective RB with a Howitzer arm.  That's how it's going to be until Allen demonstrates he can lead an NFL-level passing game - make the reads, hit the slants, throw the dumpoff to enable YAC.

 

Thing is, Allen has already shown himself better at winning games than Darnold thus far. It does feel like the narrative has changed slightly where I'm starting to hear a lot of "mind you, I was down on him on draft day but I may have been wrong" (while not a pundit, I am in that camp myself) and hear him mentioned more often as one of the great young QBs. 

 

I'm not convinced that he's going to be a superstar, but I do like what I've seen, and feel like he has the potential (if he does all the things you say) of being an all-time great, and if he takes a step anywhere near that, if the defense stays stout (or improves, as it very well could with Oliver), this team could be very, very good. It could also be a nightmare.

 

However, as much as I'm generally an optimist, this is the first time since Levy (or maybe pre-Music City Wade P.) that I've loved the coaching. I'm fascinated by Beane's plan and how in sync he seems with McD. So, while I've predicted good things in some bad years, I haven't been this excited since 2005, yet, weirdly, it is still cautious optimism. Either way, the pre-season portends to be fun, between Allen's growth, determining the o-line, the great stories (many of whom may not even make the team) of players like Sills, Wade, Duke Williams part deux, and a host of other things.