Logic Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Kevin Johnson Mitch Morse Tyler Kroft Spencer Long The above players have all battled through injuries and missed games the past few seasons. Even Frank Gore, at 36, is a bit of a medical risk. It's clear to me that one of the ways in which Beane finds value in free agency is to sign players coming off injuries. Heck, one of the biggest reasons players even make it to free agency to BEGIN with is medical struggles. With this approach, though, comes the chance that not every signing can remain healthy. Witness the Bills tenures of EJ and Philip Gaines, for instance.Let me say this, lest I be accused of anything less than cautious optimism: I LOVE what the Bills have done so far this offseason. Love it. I think they've improved the team tremendously and found great value. That being said, it is imperative that the Bills medical staff has done their homework, and that their opinions of the medical prognoses for these individuals is on point. Luckily, they seem to be front-loading most of these contracts, such that if any of the players CAN'T stay healthy, the Bills can get out of their contracts pretty easily in year 2 or 3. Nevertheless, with the monetary bargain of oft-injured players comes also the risk that they will remain, well...oft-injured. Time will tell on this one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Yup, always a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Breaking News: NFL players get injured 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) Honest question...who has been in the year for 4+ years and hasn't battled injuries? I would suspect that list is pretty small. That is why you don't overpay for "elite" FAs and then you have the money to build solid depth just in case. Edited March 12, 2019 by Mark80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyWhiteShows Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 That same staff didn’t so well with Trenton Murphy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Very logical post. Username checks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 They still all have to pass a physical before they officially sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said: They still all have to pass a physical before they officially sign Exactly. And this is my point. The Bills medical staff said these guys were healthy enough to sign, and time will tell if they were correct. That's what the thread is about. And by the way, with the guys mentioned, we're beyond "news flash, players get injured". Morse missed FIVE games with a concussion AND battled lower extremity issues the year before that many Chiefs fans/analysts say he never fully recovered from. Long has been so injury prone that he was forced to sign a cheap prove-it deal. Kevin Johnson was a 1st round pick whose entire career has been derailed by injuries. Kroft was limited in 3 of 4 seasons due to multiple injuries, so much so that the Bengals chose not to re-sign him despite a huge need at TE for them. It's not run-of-the-mill stuff, its potentially injury-prone players. I'm not trying to be negative. As I said, I love the signings, and I get why Beane strikes in FA the way he does. I'm just saying I hope the Bills medical staff is right on their evaluations of these players. Simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNYfan Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, VW82 said: Very logical post. Username checks out. I especially liked the correctly spelled "Acumen" in the Title. Bravo. I like the post in general. Nice thoughts and well said. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 This is the NFL. There is not one current active player that plays at 100% physical health. They're all dealing with something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 any player stepping on the field is at risk of injury. regardless of injury history. I'm all in on what beane has done to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Bills fans in 2017- Cordy Glenn and Sammy Watkins are injury prone. The best ability is availability Bills fans in 2019- All NFL players get injured. Trust the process. The offseason is wild sometimes man.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) The biggest signing is the guy with a concussion history, which is the thing that scares me the most. It’s always a gamble, and I’ll just pray it all goes well. . Edited March 12, 2019 by Augie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 True, it's a calculated risk, but I'm happy that they're rolling the dice on these guys. We can draft decent backups to groom as their long-term replacements or to step in sooner if needed. Meanwhile, assuming most of them stay healthy, we're building the future while being competitive right away. Remember when Miami's medical staff said Drew Brees was too much of a gamble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian3488 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 We are suppose to have the most expensive gym/fitness facility out of all other NFL clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Vonte Davis and Anquan Boldin weren’t injured during their tenure, and k benj never got going fast enough to get hurt... So there’s that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Breaking News: NFL players get injured This ^^^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I like what they've done as regards filling holes, even if not all are starters, they've certainly improved the roster. But, injury evaluations are a concern for me, as iirc, we still have the same medical staff we've had for years. I'm not too impressed with their track record tbh. Some of which would be from guys who have had off season work done, yet appear to be hurried back, only to get injured again. While I understand the pressure to get players back fit, I've got the impession that the Bills quacks are rather overly optimmistic in their assessments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: This ^^^. Right. I get it. As I posted in a reply above, the medical histories of the guys I mentioned are beyond your run-of-the-mill NFL injuries. Not all injuries and injury histories are created equally. To pretend that signing a guy with Tyler Kroft's injury history, for instance (miseed games in 3 out of his 4 NFL seasons) is completely the same as signing a guy who HASN'T missed substantial time, is being disingenuous. Again, people need not get defensive, because as I said, I LOVE what the Bills have done so far. I don't see why people are hesitant to admit that a common theme among Bills signings so far is a checkered medical history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Logic said: Right. I get it. As I posted in a reply above, the medical histories of the guys I mentioned are beyond your run-of-the-mill NFL injuries. Not all injuries and injury histories are created equally. To pretend that signing a guy with Tyler Kroft's injury history, for instance (miseed games in 3 out of his 4 NFL seasons) is completely the same as signing a guy who HASN'T missed substantial time, is being disingenuous. Again, people need not get defensive, because as I said, I LOVE what the Bills have done so far. I don't see why people are hesitant to admit that a common theme among Bills signings so far is a checkered medical history. I agree about Kroft. Long's injury, though, is a garden variety bump and bruise (we're talkin' the NFL here). I'd say the same about Morse and Johnson. A player who avoids a semi-major injury in an NFL career that stretches beyond 4 years is a rare creature. Dealing with injuries is a cost of doing business in the NFL. 8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Vonte Davis and Anquan Boldin weren’t injured during their tenure, and k benj never got going fast enough to get hurt... So there’s that! I'd argue that Benjamin never really recovered from his knee injury in his time with the Bills. Edited March 12, 2019 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 We had the fewest Man Games Lost last year, so let's hope it wasn't pure luck, but instead a great Training staff that will pull off another good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 In Morse case he came back from injury and played like a monster against NE in the AFC Championship game. They saw what they needed to see there. No need to depend on the medical staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Logic said: Exactly. And this is my point. The Bills medical staff said these guys were healthy enough to sign, and time will tell if they were correct. That's what the thread is about. And by the way, with the guys mentioned, we're beyond "news flash, players get injured". Morse missed FIVE games with a concussion AND battled lower extremity issues the year before that many Chiefs fans/analysts say he never fully recovered from. Long has been so injury prone that he was forced to sign a cheap prove-it deal. Kevin Johnson was a 1st round pick whose entire career has been derailed by injuries. Kroft was limited in 3 of 4 seasons due to multiple injuries, so much so that the Bengals chose not to re-sign him despite a huge need at TE for them. It's not run-of-the-mill stuff, its potentially injury-prone players. I'm not trying to be negative. As I said, I love the signings, and I get why Beane strikes in FA the way he does. I'm just saying I hope the Bills medical staff is right on their evaluations of these players. Simple. Your point is well made and it's an interesting observation; these players can be tied together via a knack for being injured. Perhaps this will prove to be a way to get good value for money; perhaps this will instead result in a lot of injuries and failed stints in Buffalo. It's too bad you feel you have to bend over backward so as not to appear "negative" in a bid to appease the kool-aid brigade around here, but that is the culture of this forum unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 51 minutes ago, Augie said: The biggest signing is the guy with a concussion history, which is the thing that scares me the most. It’s always a gamble, and I’ll just pray it all goes well. . I hope the Bills can get him to wear one of those Great Gazoo helmet like Kelso wore. I know the ProCap helmet is no longer being produced but there are several innovative helmets out there which help vs concussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I agree about the moves so far this year, I like them a lot. But I don't think it's as much about the acumen of the medical staff as it is about risk analytics. The post that mentioned how he is front loading those contracts I think is the most applicable part of that argument. Frankly, I liked whaleys Pro Player Personnel scouting staff a lot more than I like beane's so far during his tenure in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRA3196 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Bones break and ligaments tear, but I get concerned when I hear the word concussions associated with FA signings. I am sure the finest Dr.'s, the most advanced technology is used but at the end of the day, the effect head injuries have on players is hard to measure. I am excited about the additions to the team, but cautiously optimistic that they will all work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Breaking News: NFL players get injured how many guys tear ACL'S in non-contact camp?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: how many guys tear ACL'S in non-contact camp?....... wtf you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, CaptnCoke11 said: wtf you talking about? ...simply as you stated.....NFL players get injured whether in a game, camp, OTA's, contact or non-contact.......what did you miss in my agreement WITH YOU??........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...simply as you stated.....NFL players get injured whether in a game, camp, OTA's, contact or non-contact.......what did you miss in my agreement WITH YOU??........ Potential top 15 pick in draft tore his ACL prior to the combine working out. What do you want me to tell you? ??♂️ Edited March 12, 2019 by CaptnCoke11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Logic said: Kevin Johnson Mitch Morse Tyler Kroft Spencer Long The above players have all battled through injuries and missed games the past few seasons. Even Frank Gore, at 36, is a bit of a medical risk. It's clear to me that one of the ways in which Beane finds value in free agency is to sign players coming off injuries. Heck, one of the biggest reasons players even make it to free agency to BEGIN with is medical struggles. With this approach, though, comes the chance that not every signing can remain healthy. Witness the Bills tenures of EJ and Philip Gaines, for instance.Let me say this, lest I be accused of anything less than cautious optimism: I LOVE what the Bills have done so far this offseason. Love it. I think they've improved the team tremendously and found great value. That being said, it is imperative that the Bills medical staff has done their homework, and that their opinions of the medical prognoses for these individuals is on point. Luckily, they seem to be front-loading most of these contracts, such that if any of the players CAN'T stay healthy, the Bills can get out of their contracts pretty easily in year 2 or 3. Nevertheless, with the monetary bargain of oft-injured players comes also the risk that they will remain, well...oft-injured. Time will tell on this one. I agree and believe this (recovering from significant injury) is why nothing has been heard from Williams (Panthers OT). He has to be medically cleared and screened by potential suitors before any contract will be offered. Teams can’t have FAs in for visits/physicals until tomorrow. 2 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Potential top 15 pick in draft tore his ACL prior to the combine working out. What do you want me to tell you? ??♂️ Calm down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 It's a little weird to me the amount of "it's football, people get injured" responses I've seen so far. Why are people afraid/unwilling to admit that the crop of FAs the Bills have signed so far seem to be more injury prone than your typical, occasional football injury. Like I said, look at a guy like Kroft: Missed so much time in 3 of 4 seasons that the team that spent a high pick in him didn't even want to keep him around. Ditto Kevin Johnson. There are typical, freak football injuries, and then there are players who seem to have a history of CHRONIC, RECURRENT injuries that keep them from living up to their potential as players. We seem to be signing a lot of the latter this offseasn. I'm fine with it, I'm just point out that its a reality. Why the pushback on that simple statement? I have no idea. Why the refusal/unwillingness to admit that there's a difference between random, regular football injuries and players who are SO chronically injured that it has affected their career? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Kroft is the one who scares me. That’s not a knock on the Bills doctors, broken bones in the foot is often a prolonged problem for the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said: Potential top 15 pick in draft tore his ACL prior to the combine working out. What do you want me to tell you? ??♂️ ..WTF ARE YOU MISSING?...i am in agreement....JESUS............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elltrain22 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Most definitely a good point. At the end of the day, we gotta keep picking good players, and especially develop them properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 An old injury means almost nothing. Persistent nagging injuries are the real problem McCoys groin Sammy Watkins foot, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mob16151 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I trust the Bills medical staff. Have ever since Kevin Everett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 hours ago, dave mcbride said: I'd argue that Benjamin never really recovered from his knee injury in his time with the Bills. Could be. Sometimes it’s just never the same. Also sometimes people don’t rehab hard enough to get it there. That why PEDelman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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