CardinalScotts Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 he is why you saw Milano and Edmunds step forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Is a teammate going to say their teammate isn’t worth the money? I don’t know ask Bell and Brown in Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 ACTIVE PLAYERS (49) POS. BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS ROSTER BONUS OPTION BONUS WORKOUT BONUS RESTRUC. BONUS MISC. DEAD CAP CAP HIT CAP % Star Lotulelei DT $7,150,000 $2,600,000 $1,500,000 - $250,000 - - ($12,400,000) $11,500,000 5.80 Jerry Hughes DE $6,350,000 $1,400,000 $1,000,000 $1,500,000 $150,000 - - ($2,900,000) $10,400,000 5.25 LeSean McCoy RB $6,175,000 $2,625,000 - - $250,000 - - ($2,625,000) $9,050,000 4.57 Charles Clay TE $4,500,000 $2,000,000 - - - $2,500,000 - ($4,500,000) $9,000,000 4.54 Trent Murphy OLB $5,725,000 $1,750,000 $906,250 - $100,000 - - ($3,500,000) $8,481,250 4.28 Micah Hyde SS $3,950,000 $1,600,000 $968,750 - $100,000 - - ($4,800,000) $6,618,750 3.34 Josh Allen QB $570,000 $3,371,461 $872,865 - - - - ($121,846,866) $4,814,326 2.43 Jordan Poyer FS $2,700,000 $875,000 $150,000 - $100,000 - - ($1,750,000) $3,825,000 1.93 Shaq Lawson DE $1,851,679 $1,418,907 - - - - - ($3,270,586) $3,270,586 1.65 Steven Hauschka K $2,000,000 $1,000,000 $250,000 - - - - ($1,000,000) $3,250,000 1.64 Chris Ivory RB $1,500,000 $750,000 $406,250 - $250,000 - - ($750,000) $2,906,250 1.47 Tremaine Edmunds LB $1,055,434 $1,821,735 - - - - - ($10,357,809) $2,877,169 1.45 Russell Bodine C $1,900,000 $500,000 $206,244 - $200,000 - - ($500,000) $2,806,244 1.42 Tre'Davious White CB $1,382,374 $1,369,747 - - - - - ($4,121,869) $2,752,121 1.39 LOL someone screwed up Josh Allen Dead Cap $121,846,866 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: They went from 24th in the league in 2017 defensive YPA to 9th in 2018. No. That idea that the rush defense didn’t improve is incorrect. What was the average YPA prior to the release of Dareus in 2017? Star is graded poorly by virtually all grading outlets for a reason. If he wasn't on the field for over half the snaps, hard to imagine you can point to him being a difference maker. But I'll give you credit for finding that stat. They were middle of the pack statistically for overall rush defense, but that particular stat is encouraging I suppose. There's no rule against space eaters making plays and Star has declined big time since he first burst on to the NFL scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Stultifyingly stacked stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, Logic said: Shaw said it all. You want to know one of the crucial pieces that helped the Bills defense jump to #1 in the league this year? Star Lotulelei. A space-eating DT that commands double teams is absolutely VITAL to the success of McDermott's scheme. If you want to argue that they overpaid for him, fine, but I disagree with that, too. You allocate X amount of money to each position group. Typically, the 3-technique would be the guy making big money amongst the DTs. However, since Kyle is retiring and the Bills don't currently HAVE a 3-technique worth a big payday, they decided to give a bigger chunk of money to Star. I'd expect them to draft a youngster at 3-technique now, and by the time he's ready for a big contract extension, Star's deal will be nearing its end, and Harrison Phillips may step into that full time double-team-commanding 1T role. Aside from that, if you look at how much the salary cap goes up each year and factor in that you often have to overpay a bit in free agency to get good players -- ESPECIALLY in Buffalo -- you realize that Star's contract isn't that far out of whack. It's also better than the contract we were paying Dareus, and Star gives us VASTLY more production. Bottom line: Many fans will likely always take issue with Star's contract because he plays a non-glamorous position. The truth, though, is that said non-glamorous position is critical to the defense's success. If the endorsement of a grizzled veteran like Lorenzo Alexander doesn't change these fans' minds, though, nothing likely will. There were a ton of impact plays, that's the thing. They were being made by the linebackers and safeties that were freed up to run to the ball by Star's commanding of double teams. Impact plays, galore. Then why were they 18th in points allowed and near DFL in red zone defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, ******* said: Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games That surely didnt help the cap situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: What was the average YPA prior to the release of Dareus in 2017? Star is graded poorly by virtually all grading outlets for a reason. If he wasn't on the field for over half the snaps, hard to imagine you can point to him being a difference maker. But I'll give you credit for finding that stat. They were middle of the pack statistically for overall rush defense, but that particular stat is encouraging I suppose. There's no rule against space eaters making plays and Star has declined big time since he first burst on to the NFL scene. Starting in 2015, the Bills ranked 25th in defensive rush YPA. In 2016 they were 28th. In 2017 (McDermott's first year) they were 24th. Last season they improved to 9th. I'm not giving all the credit to Lotulelei. But to say the rush defense hasn't improved with him coming to the Bills is inaccurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said: he is why you saw Milano and Edmunds step forward Please. Milano is a playmaker and Edmunds wasn't particularly good. Milano made plays as a rookie and got even better in his second year. I don't know. I guess I like guys who make plays. There is NO other DT in the league getting paid 1 million bucks a tackle with no sacks and no TFL's. It was a bad signing. No big deal. Just do better. Just now, GoBills808 said: Starting in 2015, the Bills ranked 25th in defensive rush YPA. In 2016 they were 28th. In 2017 (McDermott's first year) they were 24th. Last season they improved to 9th. I'm not giving all the credit to Lotulelei. But to say the rush defense hasn't improved with him coming to the Bills is inaccurate. What was the rush defense YPA prior to the release of Dareus in 2017? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Then why were they 18th in points allowed and near DFL in red zone defense? It was all Star's fault. OBVIOUSLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Starting in 2015, the Bills ranked 25th in defensive rush YPA. In 2016 they were 28th. In 2017 (McDermott's first year) they were 24th. Last season they improved to 9th. I'm not giving all the credit to Lotulelei. But to say the rush defense hasn't improved with him coming to the Bills is inaccurate. It was slightly improved I suppose and you cited a valid stat to rebut my statement. Doesn't sway my opinion that I don't want to pay a space eating DT who never makes plays 10 mil/year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, thurst44 said: The Bills Run D was 29th in 2017 and 16th in 2018, giving up 10 fewer yards per game. shhhhhh. There's no room for facts here when we can use metrics like "the eyeball test" and random conjecture instead! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, Logic said: It was all Star's fault. OBVIOUSLY. No. It was because they lack elite talent in the front 7. Not all on Star OBVIOUSLY. That's why I'd rather not pay a guy like that 10 mil. Save it for playmakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: It was slightly improved I suppose and you cited a valid stat to rebut my statement. Doesn't sway my opinion that I don't want to pay a space eating DT who never makes plays 10 mil/year. And this gets to the meat of what you're not understanding: a space eating DT is necessary so that OTHER PLAYERS can make plays. The great years Milano, Hyde, and Poyer had? Guess who was often doing the dirty work in the trenches so that they were free to run to the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Logic said: And this gets to the meat of what you're not understanding: a space eating DT is necessary so that OTHER PLAYERS can make plays. The great years Milano, Hyde, and Poyer had? Guess who was often doing the dirty work in the trenches so that they were free to run to the ball! Nonsense. Poyer and Hyde were outstanding in 2017 and Milano looked great down the stretch. Edit: I want to add that I understand the theory of a space eating DT allowing those around him to make plays. However, a space eater is allowed to make plays(see Ted Washington). I just don't think Star had the kind of impact expected and his PFF grades aligns with the eyeball test. I don't think he's a terrible player; just much rather allocate resources elsewhere. Edited January 15, 2019 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeane Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That percentage looks much worse in the context of our salary cap space. What is the number as a percentage of the total salary cap? these were kind of my thoughts... When was that percentage tabulated? Including dead money? Only current number of salaries on contract? With $80+m under the cap or total salary cap? Lots of unanswered questions about the OP's 5% claim. Amazing thing I learned about statistics in college. You really can make them say any story you wish it to say. On another side, we brought him in to improve our Run D and our run D got better. Better ILB play from our young kid and run D gets even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan1988 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: It was slightly improved I suppose and you cited a valid stat to rebut my statement. Doesn't sway my opinion that I don't want to pay a space eating DT who never makes plays 10 mil/year. 9 minutes ago, Logic said: shhhhhh. There's no room for facts here when we can use metrics like "the eyeball test" and random conjecture instead! The stat i would like to see is how good was our defense on 3rd or 4th and short. I dont remember us blowing teams up on that play. Espeacilly Star. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, teef said: my world is turned completely upside down. Mine too- I may have to crawl into the bottle tonight 13 minutes ago, Logic said: And this gets to the meat of what you're not understanding: a space eating DT is necessary so that OTHER PLAYERS can make plays. The great years Milano, Hyde, and Poyer had? Guess who was often doing the dirty work in the trenches so that they were free to run to the ball! That right there is the truth! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Everyone overpays in free agency, Buffalo is no exception. In fact they probably have to bump up their offers a bit more than others because Buffalo can be a tough draw for free agents. If you watch the All-22 you see the Lotulelei is doing exactly what they're paying him to do despite not showing up much on the stat sheet. And it's not his fault he's playing 49% of the snaps. McDermott prefers to rotate guys on the DL and that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, TheBeane said: these were kind of my thoughts... When was that percentage tabulated? Including dead money? Only current number of salaries on contract? With $80+m under the cap or total salary cap? Lots of unanswered questions about the OP's 5% claim. Amazing thing I learned about statistics in college. You really can make them say any story you wish it to say. On another side, we brought him in to improve our Run D and our run D got better. Better ILB play from our young kid and run D gets even better. OP's 5.8% claim is based off of the assumed $189,000,000 2019 Cap with the 9 million 2018 rollover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, billspro said: Are you sure the run D didn’t improve?They had two bad games but were solid outside of that. I have conceded the point. They improved statistically speaking and my initial statement was incorrect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Why do people care? Beane said last year after the signing that he is a 1st,2nd down player with sometime on 3rd down to eat up space for others. in the context of what he is asked to do he didn't fall on his face. it was a good signing. The Bills were 2nd on defense. Get over it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: What was the average YPA prior to the release of Dareus in 2017? Star is graded poorly by virtually all grading outlets for a reason. If he wasn't on the field for over half the snaps, hard to imagine you can point to him being a difference maker. But I'll give you credit for finding that stat. They were middle of the pack statistically for overall rush defense, but that particular stat is encouraging I suppose. There's no rule against space eaters making plays and Star has declined big time since he first burst on to the NFL scene. I guess my counter would be with Dareus in Jacksonville for the full year was their run defense better or worse than our this year? Did they improve from last year or get worse? Did we improve from last year or get worse? The correct answers are the Bills with Star had a better run defense than Jacksonville with Dareus in both yards per game and average. Additionally the Bills rush defense and overall defense got better with Star versus last year - whereas Jacksonville got worse and that was with Buffalo eating a majority of the Dareus contract. Yes it would be nice to pay Star less, but the contract is not prohibitive to do whatever they want and I believe with the bonuses paid - he is not tied to the team for any length - they can move on as they groom replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: It was slightly improved I suppose and you cited a valid stat to rebut my statement. Doesn't sway my opinion that I don't want to pay a space eating DT who never makes plays 10 mil/year. He's a good player on a good defensive unit. You have to overpay for those guys in free agency, it's just the nature of the NFL. He draws double teams consistently. He's quick off the snap. He opens gaps for the LBs and he's consistently strong against the rush. Not flashy but definitely a big part of the defensive line. I have no problem with his salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: I think all of us amateur GMs don't know what we're talking about. Truer words were never spoken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Another reason why I'm not concerned about Star's contract is that I doubt we even get up to the cap ceiling this year or next. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, ******* said: Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games Decent out after 2020 and we have no cap issues so i don't really see this as an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This is why I didn’t like the signing and feel it’s outdated thinking (though I love Samoans). He is a one dimensional player that can be schemed off. I’d rather have a couple of DTs, run stuffer and pass rusher, than one Star. He certainly helped with the run defense but he rarely made impact plays. he is good at his role. However, his role just isn’t important anymore. He probably won’t get on the field if we played the Chiefs. Yeah he can be "schemed" around, in other words wont get any pressure or tackles as the Pats did in the last game but that scheming comes at a cost, he on average probably takes 1 1/2 lineman per snap. He many not be worth the money but it is not as dire as some make it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I just want some more impact plays for that much money. I feel like a space eater can be found for cheaper. Wrong D position for that. If you want that then look at the 3 Tech. I hope we get a Beast to plug in there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: It was slightly improved I suppose and you cited a valid stat to rebut my statement. Doesn't sway my opinion that I don't want to pay a space eating DT who never makes plays 10 mil/year. That cost 14-22.5 mil annualy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The percentage of snaps that Star played would not be Star's fault. It's the coaching staff that decides who's on the field....and I believe they're the same regime that signed his current deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Career low of 17 combined tackles, 0 sacks, 0 QB hits. Star has trended downward for the last 3 years. Once again one of the lowest rated dts in the league. Just read a Carolina article about how glad they are to not be on the hook for his $11.5 million 2019 cap hit. https://www.catscratchreader.com/2019/1/15/18183035/which-2017-panthers-players-were-missed-the-most-in-2018-defense-and-special-teams-edition Say what you want about occupying blockers but that's the type of player he's always been, except he used to get in on tackles and pressure the QB a lot more. His role hasn't changed but his numbers keep heading down. I hated this signing, especially the fact the Bills are stuck with this guy for years to come. Edited January 15, 2019 by Turk71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Is he the only 'space eating' dt in the league? If not, do the others almost never make plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I didn't like the signing. $10 million a year seemed ridiculous to me. I still think it's too much for a guy who just stands there and ties up two blockers. New England proved with their game plan that you can double team Star and devise schemes to take out the other people in the front 6 or 7, and they ran right through us. Brady had a terrible game, but the game plan called for them to run all over us. Which they did. Star was taking up two blockers, but the other ones were busy clearing space for the RB's to waltz on through. I hardly ever noticed Star during any of the games. However, the overall defense did finish 2nd in the league. This was while missing rookie Taron Johnson for half the year, and Milano for several games. They had a really good defense this year. Imagine how good they'll be if the offense can do its job and take time off the clock while scoring points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said: I didn't like the signing. $10 million a year seemed ridiculous to me. I still think it's too much for a guy who just stands there and ties up two blockers. New England proved with their game plan that you can double team Star and devise schemes to take out the other people in the front 6 or 7, and they ran right through us. Brady had a terrible game, but the game plan called for them to run all over us. Which they did. Star was taking up two blockers, but the other ones were busy clearing space for the RB's to waltz on through. I hardly ever noticed Star during any of the games. However, the overall defense did finish 2nd in the league. This was while missing rookie Taron Johnson for half the year, and Milano for several games. They had a really good defense this year. Imagine how good they'll be if the offense can do its job and take time off the clock while scoring points. Awesome #1 pass defense, average run defense and sacks. Need a stud playmaker up front on d. A better offense will definitely help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 7 hours ago, ******* said: Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games First did Beane bully you as a kid? Frazier, Sean, and Beane have both stated in the past that the goal is to keep the defensive line fresh. Seeing how we were number two in total yards given up per game and number one in passing yards given up I’ll take there stance rather than a message board specialist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Too much money for a part time space eater. Get him in there 60% of the snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Too much money for a part time space eater. Get him in there 60% of the snaps. Absolutely. Try to quantify his value in terms of making a difference to the win/loss total. It's hard to do, I admit, but it's probably close to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: Absolutely. Try to quantify his value in terms of making a difference to the win/loss total. It's hard to do, I admit, but it's probably close to zero. I understand the logic of why McD chose him. The problem is he's not an every down NT in a 3-4. I know you have to spend extra money in fa to land that guy, But with Star they just overshot the contract. I find it hard to believe that Mcd was ever gonna play him the majority of the game. Maybe McD will target Dexter Lawrence?? The Star & KB $ was basically wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 hours ago, ******* said: Currently DT Star Lotulelei will take up a team-high 5.8% of the #Bills salary cap in 2019 after signing a five-year, $50 million deal with Buffalo last offseason. Despite this, he only played in 46.9% of defensive snaps last season & he played in all 16 games Such a horrible signing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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