Tremaine Edmunds: He was the worst player on the field Dec 23 (vs NE)

[PolishPrince]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

why is this confusing? I have not really seen him burned in the passing game since the Chargers game, but I do notice him make nice pass break ups or very tight coverage multiple times a game... For a MLB I am not expecting him to hip cover a top WR all over the field lol

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

It’s not “unearned confidence” so much as zero accountability for making mistakes.  These guys know they’re unfireable.

What does this mean?  What accountability would you like to see?

 

We had a GM who was afraid to make mistakes.  He drafted EJ and was afraid to draft a QB for the 4 years after that.

[SWATeam]

I think he is just "over-thinking" it right now.  Appears to be playing slow because of it.  The game will slow down for him and he'll play faster.  I don't see them moving him, they've basically tried to make him the leader of the defense since day one. 

[HappyDays]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

It’s not “unearned confidence” so much as zero accountability for making mistakes.  These guys know they’re unfireable.

 

It's the same mistake made by a bunch of executives in the NFL. They don't know what they don't know. Draft mistakes will happen no matter what and the best way to minimize that is use all your picks or trade down for more. I would never trade up for a player that isn't a QB.

[Mark Vader]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

We need to stop trading up. The only player you can justify that for so far is Allen just because he plays QB. Dawkins, Jones, and now Edmunds have not been worth the trade ups. Our best player was drafted in a trade down. I don't get the unearned confidence in the scouting.

I don't mind the trade-ups that much, but I agree that with the upcoming draft that we need to use all the picks we have.

 

I would much rather trade down in the next draft.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Makes the decision to let Preston Brown walk for peanuts all the more unusual.  PB was not really all that good, but he had decent instincts and could command the defense.  Edmunds has the range that McD likes, but all the athleticism in the world doesn't matter when you pick the wrong hole.

 

 

Brown lead the NFL in tackles in this defense last year............it's a defense that by design can make a MLB look good.

 

2017 Preston Brown probably makes 20 stops against that list of plays today.........of course they get off the field more and NE maybe even throws more if Edmunds isn't out there being spun around all day.

Edited December 23, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[The Now Moment]

13 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He's been bad for most of the year.

 

No progress since week 1. Obviously you can't give up on such a high first round pick, but it's worrisome and they'd be taken a risk starting him at MLB going into the season next year.

I think they could look into moving him to the outside but he's a young player with a lot of talent who did look better with Milano next to him.  I can't express how young he is enough.  He'd be a young junior in college this year.  He's not there yet physically.  Although he's a specimen, he doesn't know how to use his body just yet.  Certainly something that can be taught but we are at a point right now where you certainly could move him to another position.  He's such a raw player.  He was always a project when we drafted him. He will indeed take a few years to develop.  He reminds me a bit of Clowney.  Big specimen who were just learning how to use their physicality.  They didn't have to much in college because they were just better athletes than anyone else.  The mental game was also a bit behind for him because he relied on his athleticism which you can't get away with in the NFL.  

Edited December 23, 2018 by Buffalo30

[34-78-83]

I think Edmunds will be fine but man he sure played poorly today.

[ColoradoBills]

Edmunds has struggled a lot this year.

Looking to Free Agency for an ILB that can play some OLB would be a wise move on Beane's part.

One thing that Edmunds needs to become is a lot more aggressive, I think he can improve his technique with time.

 

For all the Preston Brown fans he is available in FA.

[LSHMEAB]

The guy we're paying a fortune to eats space isn't doing him any favors, but I agree with the consensus that Edmunds is best suited as a WLB.

 

I'm starting to think Star is an ironic nickname. Like a fat guy everyone calls Tiny. On the plus side, Lorax balled out even if his physical limitations were evident a couple of times. True pro.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Brown lead the NFL in tackles in this defense last year............it's a defense that by design can make a MLB look good.

 

2017 Preston Brown probably makes 20 stops against that list of plays today.........of course they get off the field more and NE maybe even throws more if Edmunds isn't out there being spun around all day.

Yep.

 

We needed our Luke Kuechly-type player, though.  Drafting for needs, always fun.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

On the defensive side he was brutal and here is why

- Consistently out of position

- Over pursues

- Plays too tall

- Never lowers his shoulder pads

- Weak tackler- everytimehe tackles the player goes forward a few more yards

- Takes horrible angles- misses way to many tackles.

this one is on the regime.

He should be playing OLB

 

this was true.  and yet it is possible that he looked particularly bad this week because the Evil One designed plays to exploit his tendencies.

[Scott7975]

24 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

On the defensive side he was brutal and here is why

- Consistently out of position

- Over pursues

- Plays too tall

- Never lowers his shoulder pads

- Weak tackler- everytimehe tackles the player goes forward a few more yards

- Takes horrible angles- misses way to many tackles.

this one is on the regime.

He should be playing OLB

He also consistently gets sucks in on a run fake.

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

this was true.  and yet it is possible that he looked particularly bad this week because the Evil One designed plays to exploit his tendencies.

This is my problem with the front seven. What you say is true as you're often the voice of reason. That being said, you can't "gameplan" for a dominant defensive line. That's where I'd be focusing my resources this offseason. Baltimore has a great defense. Buffalo has a good defense.

[bigK14094]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

He's been poor most of the season and I think today was on par with or as bad as he's been all season.

 

Critically poor instincts........big target who can't get off blocks.........not strong or physical enough.......poor leverage........doesn't move well thru traffic........doesn't make plays in a scheme where he should be making a ton of them.

 

He's young........yeah........but this isn't the QB position.......good MLB's are almost without exception tremendous right out of the gate.

 

Don't be surprised if he's at OLB next season folks.

 

Yes, he is definitely not a run plugging MLB.  Played outside in college, and headed back there I am guessing also.

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

He also consistently gets sucks in on a run fake.

 

That was his knock coming out of college.  It's almost that he reacts too fast.

Holding his position before committing seems like a problem.

[billsfan_34]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

He also consistently gets sucks in on a run fake.

Yep- he doesnt have a high football iq

[mannc]

26 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

He should play Wlb. He’s not physical enough or good enough against the run to play MLB. 

Now you tell us!  Pretty sure we traded up to draft our MLB of the future.  Another trade up that’s not looking too good right now.  I’m sensing a trend...

[billsfan_34]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

this was true.  and yet it is possible that he looked particularly bad this week because the Evil One designed plays to exploit his tendencies.

Oh mr evil will exploit- he has had many of the same issues all year long thou

24 minutes ago, Heitz said:

 

Says the anonymous guy on the message board... ?

 

Wait, what - this is an interesting turn, Allen was the second worst player on the field today!? o_O

Wait? Who is anonymous? Not me ? Am I? Hmmmmmm

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

 

For the record, Edmunds had a bad game, but there's no reason to give up on him.

 

Also, enough with the wining about not taking Vander Esche. Sheesh! I guess the Bears blew it too, when they took Roquan Smith instead of Vander Esche. Right?

 

 

Well..........yeah........there is a reason to give up on him at MLB............because you want a competent starting MLB.

 

This isn't the QB position where you have a 15% chance of finding one you can win with..............good MLB's are pretty easy to find.

 

Just put Edmunds somewhere that his lack of instincts for the MLB position don't hurt the defense and see how he does.

 

Unfortunately they probably wasted a season where they could have been honing his abilities as an OLB/edge rusher type..........but hey,  he's young, right?

[Iverwig]

I agree but to be honest he should be given another year as the second year is usually when MLB's lights come on.  I do not think he should be playing MLB and should probably be moved to the outside but either way he plays soft.

[ALLEN1QB]

Buffalo well get rid of him in a year or two he will go to the Patriots and kick our a$$ for the next 10 years

Edited December 23, 2018 by ALLEN1QB

[nedboy7]

I hope they learn and stop moving up in the draft. 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well..........yeah........there is a reason to give up on him at MLB............because you want a competent starting MLB.

 

This isn't the QB position where you have a 15% chance of finding one you can win with..............good MLB's are pretty easy to find.

 

Just put Edmunds somewhere that his lack of instincts for the MLB position don't hurt the defense and see how he does.

 

Unfortunately they probably wasted a season where they could have been honing his abilities as an OLB/edge rusher type..........but hey,  he's young, right?

So you’re saying we gave up a premium pick to move up in the draft to select a player who it turns out might or might not have an actual position he can play in the NFL?  

[Lurker]

8 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Yes, he is definitely not a run plugging MLB.  Played outside in college, and headed back there I am guessing also.

 

I'd agree with this.  If McD keeps him at MLB out of stubborness, it will be another nail in his HC coffin...

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I don't mind the trade-ups that much, but I agree that with the upcoming draft that we need to use all the picks we have.

 

I would much rather trade down in the next draft.

 

Our drafting overall has been pretty good the past 2 years and we've found solid players like Milano and Taron Johnson in the later rounds. That's why I don't understand their willingness to part with later picks for a couple of lottery tickets. Beane said after the draft they traded up for Edmunds because he was a lot higher on their draft board. And that's fine if the draft falls according to your draft board. Just don't put so much unearned faith in yourself that you're giving up chances on other players.

So many GMs make this mistake. Milano has been a better player than Edmunds and I don't think anyone would have predicted that, but smart GMs should know the draft is unpredictable. Edmunds wouldn't be a bad pick in a vacuum, if we end up moving him to OLB for example I wouldn't hate it, but giving up players for him makes it a bad value.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

this was true.  and yet it is possible that he looked particularly bad this week because the Evil One designed plays to exploit his tendencies.

 

 

Edmunds has usually been bad.   Fairly consistent in that regard.

 

As others mentioned Milano was playing out of his head so he was covering Edmunds mistakes up a bit.

 

But mainly todays magnification of his issues was just because a solid running team chose to run at him and stuck with it.

 

They also intentionally swept all of that outside trash right at Levi Wallace and Levi was ATROCIOUS in run support in the first half.............but I am guessing his coaches called him out at halftime because Wallace actually started trying to tackle people in the second half.     

[Mr. WEO]

44 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The people who have been claiming Edmunds has been good are the same people who don't have a clue what they are watching.

 

 

What are their thoughts about the "underrated Jerry Hughes"?

[Capco]

In his defense, the whole damn team is weak against the run.  The DEs can't contain or set the edge, the DTs don't establish the line of scrimmage, and our safeties just don't have the strength to take on bigger runners, receivers, and blockers.  

 

If Edmunds had an average run defense around him, I still think he's a good fit for what McD wants to do with his defense.  But you can't sell out against the run personnel-wise as much as the Bills seem to be doing.  

 

I do think Edmunds fills out his body a bit more and becomes stouter against the run both physically and (more importantly) mentally over time, but right now it's the weakness in his game. 

 

He may as well stop biting on play action and drop back every snap since he's so bad against the run right now anyway lol. 

[Mark Vader]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well..........yeah........there is a reason to give up on him at MLB............because you want a competent starting MLB.

 

This isn't the QB position where you have a 15% chance of finding one you can win with..............good MLB's are pretty easy to find.

 

Just put Edmunds somewhere that his lack of instincts for the MLB position don't hurt the defense and see how he does.

 

Unfortunately they probably wasted a season where they could have been honing his abilities as an OLB/edge rusher type..........but hey,  he's young, right?

If they choose to move him to a different position, that suits him better, fine.

 

It worked for Aaron Williams when he went from Corner to Safety.

 

I'm just saying that there is no reason to give up on Edmunds entirely.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

So you’re saying we gave up a premium pick to move up in the draft to select a player who it turns out might or might not have an actual position he can play in the NFL?  

 

 

It's possible but it's also possible he could be a tremendous pass rusher and those are second only to QB's in terms of positional value in the NFL.

 

And the thing about pass rushers is that they are almost always "made" thru training and experience.........pretty common for those guys to make huge strides 3-4 years into their careers.

 

MLB's usually show right away that they can do it.

 

Now maybe I'm wrong and Edmunds is an exception...........a guy without instincts for the MLB position who goes from awful to great when a "light turns on" in his head.....but MLB's aren't so valued that I could understand sacrificing games developing him there again next season.

[Mark Vader]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Not sure anyone is.

 

I think the point of the thread is to consider giving up on Edmunds at the MLB position.

Trust me, there are people here who think Edmunds is hopeless, the same way they feel about Josh Allen.

 

Maybe not a lot of people, but enough.

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

He's been poor most of the season and I think today was on par with or as bad as he's been all season.

 

Critically poor instincts........big target who can't get off blocks.........not strong or physical enough.......poor leverage........doesn't move well thru traffic........doesn't make plays in a scheme where he should be making a ton of them.

 

He's young........yeah........but this isn't the QB position.......good MLB's are almost without exception tremendous right out of the gate.

 

Don't be surprised if he's at OLB next season folks.

 

 

Afraid to say I agree. 

[TN Bills Fan]

Edmunds was awful. He was bullied all day.  Think he will have to add muscle mass to play inside.  My guess is he'll put on 20 lbs. by preseason.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's possible but it's also possible he could be a tremendous pass rusher and those are second only to QB's in terms of positional value in the NFL.

 

And the thing about pass rushers is that they are almost always "made" thru training and experience.........pretty common for those guys to make huge strides 3-4 years into their careers.

 

MLB's usually show right away that they can do it.

 

Now maybe I'm wrong and Edmunds is an exception...........a guy without instincts for the MLB position who goes from awful to great when a "light turns on" in his head.....but MLB's aren't so valued that I could understand sacrificing games developing him there again next season.

Anything might happen, but has Edmunds shown any ability as an edge rusher, even at Va Tech?  If not, it’s hard to put much faith in his ability to do it consistently in the NFL. 

[LABILLBACKER]

54 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thank you. Nothing against this kid but he’s not been out of position as much as he’s simply been blown off the ball. He’s simply not the right body type at this level of competition.

He'll have to put on weight and get stronger this offseason.  He has not finished the season strong.  He's not a MLB.

[Capco]

1 minute ago, TN Bills Fan said:

Edmunds was awful. He was bullied all day.  Think he will have to add muscle mass to play inside.  My guess is he'll put on 20 lbs. by preseason.

 

I was kind of surprised to see him listed at 250.  At his height, he doesn't just need more muscle (which I agree he needs and I'm sure he'll get), he literally needs to cultivate more mass.  His body is too long to play adequately against the run at 250. 

 

Ideally, long-term I seem him playing above 260, stronger than he is now, and just as fast as he is today.  

[BillyWhiteShows]

46 minutes ago, Kemp said:

I can think of a more important player who was worse, but...

 

If you mean Allen, your flat out wrong 

[Jpsredemption]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thank you. Nothing against this kid but he’s not been out of position as much as he’s simply been blown off the ball. He’s simply not the right body type at this level of competition.

Qouted for truth. Successes of D Leonard and LVE hurts

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

If they choose to move him to a different position, that suits him better, fine.

 

It worked for Aaron Williams when he went from Corner to Safety.

 

I'm just saying that there is no reason to give up on Edmunds entirely.

 

Saying people are giving up on him as a football player entirely is a straw-manesque attempt to defend him at best.

 

But you are right about the Aaron Williams comparison...............Williams was considered a safety prospect coming out of Texas but the Bills tried to jam him into CB and he was ATROCIOUS.   Even worse than Edmunds has been at MLB.   But AW was a very good safety.  Unfortunately he speared himself out of the league with his insistence on leading with the helmet.