Tremaine Edmunds: He was the worst player on the field Dec 23 (vs NE)

[stevestojan]

HE’S TWENTY ***** YEARS OLD. 

[Mark Vader]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Saying people are giving up on him as a football player entirely is a straw-manesque attempt to defend him at best.

 

But you are right about the Aaron Williams comparison...............Williams was considered a safety prospect coming out of Texas but the Bills tried to jam him into CB and he was ATROCIOUS.   Even worse than Edmunds has been at MLB.   But AW was a very good safety.  Unfortunately he speared himself out of the league with his insistence on leading with the helmet.

And Williams had his career ended by a cheap shot hit from Jarvis Landry.

 

As for my defense of Edmunds, I am not saying that Edmunds is an All-Pro. He's a rookie who has had some bad games and does not make the best decisions. He's also had some good moments. Maybe he should not be an MLB. If they move to a different position, I'm ok with that.

 

What I get sick of are all the fans that constantly bemoan our rookie players, who then want to give up on them after one year of play. This happens a lot on this board, and it just pisses me off.

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

HE’S TWENTY ***** YEARS OLD. 

 

But is he related to any famous golfers?

[skibum]

Maybe he can play tight end. 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

 

If you mean Allen, your flat out wrong 

 

 

Allen had a bad day but Edmunds strung together series after series of poor plays in a row...........it was astounding how ineffective he was.

[BillyWhiteShows]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen had a bad day but Edmunds strung together series after series of poor plays in a row...........it was astounding how ineffective he was.

 

Sure he was confused by the defense...but he also had throws that were dropped, including 2 or 3 which should have gone for TD’s, plus Croom’s fumble inside the 10.  IMO he played pretty well and was victimized by terrible talent.

 

Edmunds was straight-up a liability today

11 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

HE’S TWENTY ***** YEARS OLD. 

 

He had a terrible rookie season

[BubbaT]

To me it was Corey Thompson. He looked totally lost. Didn't fill his gaps and ran himself out of plays etc. I would imagine communication wasn't great either when Julian Stanford went out early in the game. Young free agent undrafted types playing vs veteran Pats team is a recipe for disaster. Not trying to totally exonerate Edmunds who clearly struggled too but I think it was a collective linebacker failure. Sort of the same on O with rookie QB throwing to rookie free agent types with only 1 2nd year player who doesnt seem to know when a back shoulder throw is coming.

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He is a “watcher” - he sits back and watches the play develop in front of (and then behind) him.  He’s almost always late to the action.  And he has zero functional strength - the next drive-tackle he makes will be his first one.

 

Wouldnt be shocked to see him moved to edge rusher - he can be like Chandler Jones, maybe.  But he’s just not a MLB.

Lacks aggression. Any nose for the ball. Scary thing to say about an MLB

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, BubbaT said:

To me it was Corey Thompson. He looked totally lost. Didn't fill his gaps and ran himself out of plays etc. I would imagine communication wasn't great either when Julian Stanford went out early in the game. Young free agent undrafted types playing vs veteran Pats team is a recipe for disaster. Not trying to totally exonerate Edmunds who clearly struggled too but I think it was a collective linebacker failure. Sort of the same on O with rookie QB throwing to rookie free agent types with only 1 2nd year player who doesnt seem to know when a back shoulder throw is coming.

 

Post more.  Not kidding.  Good post.

[BringBackOrton]

51 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Well..........yeah........there is a reason to give up on him at MLB............because you want a competent starting MLB.

 

This isn't the QB position where you have a 15% chance of finding one you can win with..............good MLB's are pretty easy to find.

 

Just put Edmunds somewhere that his lack of instincts for the MLB position don't hurt the defense and see how he does.

 

Unfortunately they probably wasted a season where they could have been honing his abilities as an OLB/edge rusher type..........but hey,  he's young, right?

Wasted seasons don’t matter for rookie first round picks 

 

Signed,

 

Shaq Lawson’s fifth year option

[Lenigmusx]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The people who have been claiming Edmunds has been good are the same people who don't have a clue what they are watching.

I agree that today he was not good and looked very confused where he should peruse or fill etc.. I will argue though that Lawson and Murphy did a flat out awful job setting the edge and or filling gap assignments. I think the DE's consistently read the blocking schemes wrong in the run game all day. When this has happened at other times this year Milano has been there to cover up the error with his speed and ball persuit. When Milano plays he provides a safety net that allow Edmunds to flow to the ball and run downhill. Without Milano and The Stanford injury we were very thin at LB and sometimes he was on an island. This was a role he was not ready for. The depth at LB on this team is horrible. This combined with the fact that as good a Alexander is playing he is not fast made giant gashes in the run D that the Patriots exploited. If Milano and Stanford were healthy This would have gone differently. I know what I am seeing and I also know that Edmunds has a long way to go. I think you will see enourmous growth next year.  

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Lacks aggression. Any nose for the ball. Scary thing to say about an MLB

 

Interesting way to put it - you may be right - a certain type of personality is needed for the Mike, gotta love getting your nose dirty.  Edmunds may not WANT to play the position.  Contrast him with a guy like London Fletcher who was 5’9” but willing to put all of his frame at risk on every single play - a UDFA no less.

 

At the very least they need a contingency plan for the position next season.

[Da webster guy]

1 hour ago, DuckyBoys said:

probably a better fit at OLB  Go sign another tackler to man the middle with Milano and move him over  He is such a athlete/freak they will figure out how to get the most out of him

Exactly.  I think they'll add ten pounds to him in the offseason either way, and the kid can start camp inside with another solid rookie prospect or free agent competing for the middle.

His strengths are tackles in the flat, batted balls, and running/covering side to side.  Weakness is power n leverage at point of attack and shedding blocks.

We got Milano late, and Taron.  Look for *****/McD to move on an MLB in 4th or 5th round (our double pick rounds).

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, BubbaT said:

To me it was Corey Thompson. He looked totally lost. Didn't fill his gaps and ran himself out of plays etc. I would imagine communication wasn't great either when Julian Stanford went out early in the game. Young free agent undrafted types playing vs veteran Pats team is a recipe for disaster. Not trying to totally exonerate Edmunds who clearly struggled too but I think it was a collective linebacker failure. Sort of the same on O with rookie QB throwing to rookie free agent types with only 1 2nd year player who doesnt seem to know when a back shoulder throw is coming.

 

Eh.

 

Thompson and Lorenzo Alexander both got abused at times but they also battled thru it and made big plays that could have turned the tide of the game.

 

Edmunds got in a way of an errant pass on the first drive and then was INVISIBLE the rest of the game despite a TON of action that he should have been in on.

 

Any time you give up around 300 yards rushing you have a number of issues but Edmunds just could not get untracked.    Brutal game for him.  Brutal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lenigmusx]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think you'll need to see it early on if you start him at MLB.

 

The Bills can't afford Edmunds looking completely lost again next season and essentially helping them lose games.

Agree but much like Allen the supporting cast makes a huge difference. Milano and Alexander allow him to play "free" and there have been some moments of what he can be. Those will be the dominant moments next year I think. 

[Roundybout]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

His big weakness is instincts.

 

Hes slow to the ball and doesn't react quickly at all. He just stands there watching the play. Not sure how that gets fixed.

 

 

It gets fixed through experience I think. 

[Estro]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

He's been poor most of the season and I think today was on par with or as bad as he's been all season.

 

Critically poor instincts........big target who can't get off blocks.........not strong or physical enough.......poor leverage........doesn't move well thru traffic........doesn't make plays in a scheme where he should be making a ton of them.

 

He's young........yeah........but this isn't the QB position.......good MLB's are almost without exception tremendous right out of the gate.

 

Don't be surprised if he's at OLB next season folks.

 

Exactly what Greg Cosell said he was in the lead up to the draft.  Hes awful in the run game.  Takes bad angles and is super slow to diagnose.  Our other 1st round pick looked like a train wreck out there today too.  

[LSHMEAB]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's possible but it's also possible he could be a tremendous pass rusher and those are second only to QB's in terms of positional value in the NFL.

 

And the thing about pass rushers is that they are almost always "made" thru training and experience.........pretty common for those guys to make huge strides 3-4 years into their careers.

 

MLB's usually show right away that they can do it.

 

Now maybe I'm wrong and Edmunds is an exception...........a guy without instincts for the MLB position who goes from awful to great when a "light turns on" in his head.....but MLB's aren't so valued that I could understand sacrificing games developing him there again next season.

It could be argued that Edmunds as a pass rushing OLB could be MORE valuable than a MLB. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Edmunds has usually been bad.   Fairly consistent in that regard.

 

As others mentioned Milano was playing out of his head so he was covering Edmunds mistakes up a bit.

 

But mainly todays magnification of his issues was just because a solid running team chose to run at him and stuck with it.

 

They also intentionally swept all of that outside trash right at Levi Wallace and Levi was ATROCIOUS in run support in the first half.............but I am guessing his coaches called him out at halftime because Wallace actually started trying to tackle people in the second half.     

 

WTF is N’Orleans D playing at in the RZ?  Stillers de-pantsing them.  Sorry. Distracted.

 

I’m curious why you call NE a “solid running team”?  They are near league bottom in YPC and mediocre in total yardage.  Where they excel IMO is that the Evil One excels at figuring out what their opponents do badly.  And what Edmunds does badly is he can be baited into overpursuing, as well as the other gaps in his game you and others have mentioned.  Maybe we’re really making the same point in different words - Edmunds has been consistently bad at covering some aspects of the run game and Bellycheat figured that out and said, as he does, we’re gonna do that until you stop us.  The aspects of his game where he’s been OK or sometimes even good, weren’t there today because Bellycheat wasn’t trying them.

 

I agree that the loss of Milano hurts.

 

I also agree that of all the personnel decisions we made, letting some solid defensive players move on along sits very poorly with me

[Estro]

Once again credit Bill B for attacking our weaknesses he ran at Edmund's all day.  Expect other coaches to follow suit.  

[CommonCents]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

He was awful today.

 

Worst player on the field.

 

He's been poor most of the season and I think today was on par with or as bad as he's been all season.

 

Critically poor instincts........big target who can't get off blocks.........not strong or physical enough.......poor leverage........doesn't move well thru traffic........doesn't make plays in a scheme where he should be making a ton of them.

 

He's young........yeah........but this isn't the QB position.......good MLB's are almost without exception tremendous right out of the gate.

 

Don't be surprised if he's at OLB next season folks.

 

You can’t have a MLB that is afraid to come down hill. He would be a much better fit at OLB, he is a liability inside.

[MJS]

Rookie wall.

[CommonCents]

Just now, MJS said:

Rookie wall.

It has nothing to do with a rookie wall. A

MLB needs to be crazy, he ain’t crazy. Put him outside and let him tackle with his arms.

[ColoradoBills]

11 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Exactly.  I think they'll add ten pounds to him in the offseason either way, and the kid can start camp inside with another solid rookie prospect or free agent competing for the middle.

His strengths are tackles in the flat, batted balls, and running/covering side to side.  Weakness is power n leverage at point of attack and shedding blocks.

We got Milano late, and Taron.  Look for *****/McD to move on an MLB in 4th or 5th round (our double pick rounds).

 

I say no to another rookie.  Bills need a FA that has actually played the middle. 

Stanford is not an experienced MLB.  He's got a total of 64 combined tackles in 6 years.  He's a ST player.

When you think about it Edmunds doesn't even have a player on the roster who he can get advice from.

 

[leonbus23]

Edmunds wasn't so good, but that Allen was fantastic. 

[BADOLBILZ]

32 minutes ago, Lenigmusx said:

I know what I am seeing and I also know that Edmunds has a long way to go.  I think you will see enourmous growth next year.  

 

 

What's the frame of reference?

 

Curious what starting rookie MLB was terrible in.....let's say the past 20 years.........and then went that "long way" and became outstanding the next season?

[wppete]

It seems like he doesn’t like contact and is not a very physical guy despite his size. I feel your MLB should be the most physical guy out there. I wonder if a move to WLB or even DE on passing downs is a better position for him. 

[TonyBeets]

He'd be fine if he had DTs that played better.  

[LSHMEAB]

Just now, TonyBeets said:

He'd be fine if he had DTs that played better.  

What are you talking about? He's got one of the best space eaters in the league clogging up the line making his job super easy.

[TonyBeets]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

What are you talking about? He's got one of the best space eaters in the league clogging up the line making his job super easy.

 

Did you watch the game today?

[CEN-CAL17]

I’m starting to think picks 8-10 in this draft ILB Devin White LSU might be in play.

 

I get it. Bills needs OL but I think that will come through FA. Plus at 10 Devin White May be the BPA. That would allow Edmunds, Milano and D White to play anywhere. All three are 3 down LBs. You can line up any of them anywhere.

 

But man do the Bills need to improve the pass rush as well. That’s another card in play 8-10.

[Lenigmusx]

4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What's the frame of reference?

 

Curious what starting rookie MLB was terrible in.....let's say the past 20 years.........and then went that "long way" and became outstanding the next season?

The Vikings Eric Kendricks is a prime example of someone who developed into a MLB. He started only playing in the nickel and by many reports had physical talent but was slow to read and react. He has become one of the better starters in the league in 3 years. 

 

Preston Brown is also a good example of someone who has grown into the role. In recent times.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, wppete said:

It seems like he doesn’t like contact and is not a very physical guy despite his size. I feel your MLB should be the most physical guy out there. I wonder if a move to WLB or even DE on passing downs is a better position for him. 

 

 

He got a pretty bad concussion trying to tackle a fullback head up and missed a game and since then he's appeared to be much more contact shy.

 

Julian Stanford outplayed him in his absence.

 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

I agree, it's time to be worried about him.

 

I’m certainly concerned, but I’m not willing to panic. This is a year of growth. Am I thrilled? Of course not! Might he better outside? Maybe. Too soon to be too sure of anything. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Lenigmusx said:

The Vikings Eric Kendricks is a prime example of someone who developed into a MLB. He started only playing in the nickel and by many reports had physical talent but was slow to read and react. He has become one of the better starters in the league in 3 years. 

 

Preston Brown is also a good example of someone who has grown into the role. In recent times.

 

 

Preston Brown is a good example of the opposite of Edmunds......a LB who was playing efficiently and near his ceiling as a rookie.

 

That's the norm really.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Would have been nice to have Vander Esch but i think Edmunds will be be next year.

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Preston Brown is a good example of the opposite of Edmunds......a LB who was playing efficiently and near his ceiling as a rookie.

 

That's the norm really.

He's going to be our starting MLB next year. He certainly did struggle in making the right reads and getting in the right gap on plenty of plays. This was his learning year as it was for the qb. I agree with you that in general Stanford outplayed Edmunds. But it shouldn't be surprising that a five year veteran sometimes outplayed a rookie at a challenging position. What's also obvious is that Edmunds has much more raw/physical talent than Stanford has and that with experience he is going to be an exponentially better player. That's why the rookie is getting extensive playing time than the veteran player. You might not acknowledge the obvious but by playing the more mistake prone rookie now it will in the not too distant long run will pay off more than playing a pedestrian veteran. 

 

If your logic was carried out of comparing rookies to veterans and playing the less mistake prone player the Bills would be starting Barkley over Allen. Edmunds is a good fit for McDermott's defense in that he is very athletic and fast and can cover a lot of territory. He is not a thumper and will never be. In our system it is more important for the MLB to cover a wide range of territory rather than being a run stuffing thumper. If we wanted that style of MLB we would have kept Spikes. 

[Heitz]

25 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m certainly concerned, but I’m not willing to panic. This is a year of growth. Am I thrilled? Of course not! Might he better outside? Maybe. Too soon to be too sure of anything. 

 

Dude, if you're not worried you're not worried enough! ?

[Socal-805]

 

 

273.  Yards.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2018 by Socal-805

[Heitz]

2 minutes ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

273.  Yards.

 

 

 

 

 

All.

 

On.

 

Edmunds.