Bills have released Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes

[Captain Hindsight]

3 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

He's was bad before just a few games this season.  Carolina wanted to dump him for a reason.  Beane had blind love for this guy...

Eh there were rumors he tried to get guys like Landry and other Wrs. I think he took a shot on a guy he knew and it didnt work out.

 

I'll never fault them for making the move. It made a ton of sense, it filled a need and it it had worked out, they were getting a great talent for fairly cheap. It didnt work, so they moved on

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

He's was bad before just a few games this season.  Carolina wanted to dump him for a reason.  Beane had blind love for this guy...

 

There is no doubt that Beane was wrong about KB.

Here is to hoping he learned from this and does better in the future.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

6 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

He's was bad before just a few games this season.  Carolina wanted to dump him for a reason.  Beane had blind love for this guy...

 

<hard eye roll> 

 

The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded.  He wasn't "bad."

 

Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo.  It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots.  

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

There is no doubt that Beane was wrong about KB.

Here is to hoping he learned from this and does better in the future.

 

I don't even think he was wrong.  He took a chance and it didn't work.  That doesn't make it wrong.  Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo.  It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots.  

 

I don't even think he was wrong.  He took a chance and it didn't work.  That doesn't make it wrong.  Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB.

 

I'm not hating on Beane.  KB failed miserably which surely wasn't "right".

Letting KB go before the end of the season was the right thing to do.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm not hating on Beane.  KB failed miserably which surely wasn't "right".

Letting KB go before the end of the season was the right thing to do.

 

I see being "right" as being based on the decision.  

 

The outcome, however, is a different story. 

 

For example, lets say we trade for Drew Brees in the prime of his career, but two games in he tears his ACL and decides to retire.  The decision was "right," but the outcome was obviously something different.  Now, KB is not Brees, but hopefully you get my point.  

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I see being "right" as being based on the decision.  

 

The outcome, however, is a different story. 

 

For example, lets say we trade for Drew Brees in the prime of his career, but two games in he tears his ACL and decides to retire.  The decision was "right," but the outcome was obviously something different.  Now, KB is not Brees, but hopefully you get my point.  

 

I do get your point.   I also agree a Brees trade is not the same as a KB trade.

 

My original point was about Beane (a new GM) learning from this and minimizing outcomes like this in the future.

Personally, I think he is a pretty smart guy and will learn from this.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 12/5/2018 at 2:37 PM, One Buffalo said:

Interesting stat that confirms what many are saying... definitely an addition by subtraction move.

 

 

 

great gouge.

 

Wow.  Bet it looks even worse if you split out Benjamin and Holmes, since overall Holmes has been running ~50% catch and Benjamin is at 37%.

 

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

great gouge.

 

Wow.  Bet it looks even worse if you split out Benjamin and Holmes, since overall Holmes has been running ~50% catch and Benjamin is at 37%.

At one point it was shown that you were better off to spike the ball than throw to KB, statistically speaking.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

watch him turn his career around now and start catching balls.

 

 

no, he wont do that, will he?

[HeHateMe]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

<hard eye roll> 

 

The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded.  He wasn't "bad."

 

Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo.  It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots.  

 

I don't even think he was wrong.  He took a chance and it didn't work.  That doesn't make it wrong.  Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB.

 

Disagree... it was wrong.. Teams don't dump WRs after a 1,000 yard season unless there are major red flags.. kind of like the guy doesn't give a sh*t about football or care to stay in shape.  We wasted almost 2 years on the guy, someone else could have been getting those reps and built chemistry with JA this yr.    

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

41 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Disagree... it was wrong.. Teams don't dump WRs after a 1,000 yard season unless there are major red flags.. kind of like the guy doesn't give a sh*t about football or care to stay in shape.  We wasted almost 2 years on the guy, someone else could have been getting those reps and built chemistry with JA this yr.    

 

So then the only way to get a WR is through the draft. It’s not unfair, but your premise means we can never get a WR through trade or FA because the team before has given up on the guy. I disagree with the premise, but again I totally get it and think it’s reasonable. 

 

And, honestly, in any event, for a third and a couple years of play, I think it was worth the risk. 

[BigDingus]

On 12/6/2018 at 7:10 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That is true.  The FACT also is, that Watkins was the #4 WR on the Rams last year with 39.5 YPG and a meh 55.7% catch %

He's #3 on the Chiefs team this year with a good catch  % of 73% and 52 ypg.

 

The fact is, Sammy contributed more than that in 2014 with Orton and EJ Manual throwing to him and 2015 with Taylor.

 

Yes, you're right they traded for or paid very well to acquire Watkins, but there has to be disappointment in the pay given the performance.

 

It was a 3rd round pick I believe....

 

It would surprise me if Benjamin plays next year.  I think he doesn't really love playing football.  At this point, he's earned $15M in bonus and salary so why do something you don't love?  Depending upon his tastes and whether he's invested it decently (and I'll say this, at least he doesn't make the news driving around with 'spice' in his car or for club altercations) that's more than enough money to buy a nice house with some property and a nice boat, sit on the porch, and go fishing.

 

If he does play football, it would surprise me if he had a great season.  "Dogging it" gets to be a habit, just like anything else a person keeps doing.

 

 

Those stats for the Rams would be good enough for #1 overall on our team this year. Our best WR is averaging 38.2 YPG, 3 receptions, and has 4 TD's on the year (compared to Watkins' 8 TD's in 15 games). So even as their 4th most used WR, he'd be our #1 even with the stats he had.

In regards to Benjamin, I would be shocked if he didn't play next year. Of course he's going to not look as into the game when you are part of this team compared to being with Super Bowl contenders like the Panthers & Chiefs. He had some of the least WR-friendly QB's throwing to him the past year & a half, and now gets to play on a playoff team, with a likely MVP winner at QB & a great offensive minded coach.

The best he had to look forward to here was run blocking, a handful of targets in a loss, and to watch inaccurate QB's attempt to "manage" the game, as our HC wants to hide their weaknesses & limit the passing game as much as possible. The weather ain't great, the losing ain't great, the QB's ain't great, so how excited can you really be?

Granted, he's a professional and should still put his best effort forward, but these players are human beings & succumb to the same emotions & pitfalls we all do. It's possible that being a 3rd or 4th option on a dominant team may even help his attitude even more than it would had he been pushed to a leading role. Less pressure, the best DB's covering other WR's, and more TD opportunities in the redzone. Winning, playoffs, more targets, a great QB, these things will all improve his mentality imo.

[row_33]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

<hard eye roll> 

 

The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded.  He wasn't "bad."

 

 

Cherry picked stats with no context 

 

Yay!!!!!!!!!

 

more please

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

14 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Cherry picked stats with no context 

 

Yay!!!!!!!!!

 

more please

 

 

 

Its not like it’s an obscure stat. Its the only stat. It’s the sole stat WRs are judged by. I understand cherry picking sucks, but the guy was a thousand yard receiver. That isn’t cherry picking. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Its not like it’s an obscure stat. Its the only stat. It’s the sole stat WRs are judged by. I understand cherry picking sucks, but the guy was a thousand yard receiver. That isn’t cherry picking. 

 

I think his point may have been that while yes, Benjamin racked up a lot of yardage, it was done on a disproportionately large number of attempts due to Benjamin's literally 50/50 catch percentage.  Other WR in 2014 with ~145 targets had 10%-30% more yards.  Similar observation in 2016: other WR more productive with similar # targets due to higher catch percentage.

 

If yardage is in fact the sole stat WR are judged by, perhaps they shouldn't be.  Productivity also matters.

17 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

watch him turn his career around now and start catching balls.

no, he wont do that, will he?

 

TBH, I hope he will.  Living in MO, I have a soft spot for the Chiefs and would like to see them make a good move that will contribute.

 

I tend to believe, though, that 12 games of slacking is not something KB will be able to shed that easily.  Whatever is in his head and causes him to alligator-arm throws he could catch (for TD no less) will likely stay there.  Unless Reid has Some Magic he can work on the guy.

[YoloinOhio]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think his point may have been that while yes, Benjamin racked up a lot of yardage, it was done on a disproportionately large number of attempts due to Benjamin's literally 50/50 catch percentage.  Other WR in 2014 with ~145 targets had 10%-30% more yards.  Similar observation in 2016: other WR more productive with similar # targets due to higher catch percentage.

 

If yardage is in fact the sole stat WR are judged by, perhaps they shouldn't be.  Productivity also matters.

 

TBH, I hope he will.  Living in MO, I have a soft spot for the Chiefs and would like to see them make a good move that will contribute.

 

I tend to believe, though, that 12 games of slacking is not something KB will be able to shed that easily.  Whatever is in his head and causes him to alligator-arm throws he could catch (for TD no less) will likely stay there.  Unless Reid has Some Magic he can work on the guy.

Not sure if it will be “magic” but they can line him up with Kelce in the red zone. The defense won’t be able to bracket Kelce. I don’t think he will be some giant contributor to their playoff run but he doesn’t really need to be. Just someone they can put out there to free up the real players a bit in the passing game, situationally. They aren’t paying him anything, it’s a decent move. If he’s a turd out there they can just move on. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not sure if it will be “magic” but they can line him up with Kelce in the red zone. The defense won’t be able to bracket Kelce. I don’t think he will be some giant contributor to their playoff run but he doesn’t really need to be. Just someone they can put out there to free up the real players a bit in the passing game, situationally. They aren’t paying him anything, it’s a decent move. If he’s a turd out there they can just move on. 

 

Apparently Watkins has been sidelined for 4-6 weeks.  So actually, I think one could argue KC needs Benjamin to be a "real boy" for their team.  KB's story preseason was that he's not a top wideout because he hasn't had an accurate QB throwing to him.  Like the storied "real boy" named Pinocchio, I hope Kelvin's measured his nose because I think it's about to grow longer.

 

Now one can argue at this point in the season, the pickin's at FA WR are slim and perhaps KB is the best of a bad lot.  But one wonders if KC would not have been better off to do what the Bills are doing and give a shot to a hopeful who has been working hard on their ST or scout team.

[Cripple Creek]

On 12/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

<hard eye roll> 

 

The dude had two 1000 yard seasons (almost-second was like 940) and was on his way to a third when he was traded.  He wasn't "bad."

 

Beane thought they could make it work in Buffalo.  It didn't. It happens. But he is right, you gotta take your shots.  

 

I don't even think he was wrong.  He took a chance and it didn't work.  That doesn't make it wrong.  Wrong is making a trade that was destined to fail in the first place. I don't see why that would be true with KB.

Wrong is cutting him so he could move elsewhere. Should have kept him on the roster and on the bench.  It was pretty apparent game 1 that he had no desire to do anything but the minimum for this team.  McDermott was crazy to keep trotting his sorry ass out on the field Sunday after Sunday.  

[cd1]

21 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

watch him turn his career around now and start catching balls.

 

 

no, he wont do that, will he?

 

vvvv THIS vvvv  is why he won't. The guy does not stay in NFL shape and THAT is a very big tell about his attitude!

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, cd1 said:

 

vvvv THIS vvvv  is why he won't. The guy does not stay in NFL shape and THAT is a very big tell about his attitude!

 

 

....Jesus....looks like his water could break any minute..................

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Wrong is cutting him so he could move elsewhere. Should have kept him on the roster and on the bench.  It was pretty apparent game 1 that he had no desire to do anything but the minimum for this team.  McDermott was crazy to keep trotting his sorry ass out on the field Sunday after Sunday.  

I would not want that kind of malcontent around my young team; if they did not want to play him they had to cut him. I can only imagine what the wr coaches had to say about his tape when they looked at it as a group. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....Jesus....looks like his water could break any minute..................

I probably won’t have traded for a fat receiver if I was running the team but what do I know. 

[Magox]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I probably won’t have traded for a fat receiver if I was running the team but what do I know. 

 

No probably not, but you would have wanted to sign an often-injured player who averages 600 yard receiving to a $17 Million a year contract.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I probably won’t have traded for a fat receiver if I was running the team but what do I know. 

 

...could be a slim guard though, right??.......

[3rdand12]

56 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I would not want that kind of malcontent around my young team; if they did not want to play him they had to cut him. I can only imagine what the wr coaches had to say about his tape when they looked at it as a group. 

I would have thought when the WR s room ran game tape Kelvin would would have been ashamed honestly to watch himself.

Cannot see that changing. all he was and will be good for is drawing coverage. Just in case  he accidentally runs a good route. and has the odds on  his side and catches something

 it could happen....

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

I would have thought when the WR s room ran game tape Kelvin would would have been ashamed honestly to watch himself.

Cannot see that changing. all he was and will be good for is drawing coverage. Just in case  he accidentally runs a good route. and has the odds on  his side and catches something

 it could happen....

I'll tell you the words that were never said; "ok guys, let's take a look at what kelvin did on this play, I want you to repeat what he did".

I'm assuming KB's tape was last and more often than not time was up before they got too far.

[dave mcbride]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:25 AM, eball said:

 

Wow -- that is incredibly unlucky for Sammy.  Makes you wonder if his body type isn't suited to the rigors of the NFL.  Some guys just can't stay healthy.

Update: it is indeed his other foot. The current injury is with the right foot (via espn), and the earlier one, which resulted in surgery, was in the left foot.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....and dumped yet again..............

 

Broncos cut Andre Holmes

Posted by Charean Williams on January 23, 2019, 5:57 PM EST

 

The Broncos released receiver Andre Holmes on Wednesday, according to the NFL’s official transaction wire.

 

They claimed Holmes off waivers from the Bills on Dec. 5 after Emmanuel Sanders tore his Achilles’ in practice.

 

Holmes played three games for the Broncos, catching one pass for 5 yards. He had 12 catches for 157 yards with Buffalo this season.

 

Holmes, 30, also has played in Dallas and Oakland in his seven-year career, catching 128 passes for 1,744 yards and 15 touchdowns

[NoHuddleKelly12]

41 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....and dumped yet again..............

 

Broncos cut Andre Holmes

Posted by Charean Williams on January 23, 2019, 5:57 PM EST

 

The Broncos released receiver Andre Holmes on Wednesday, according to the NFL’s official transaction wire.

 

They claimed Holmes off waivers from the Bills on Dec. 5 after Emmanuel Sanders tore his Achilles’ in practice.

 

Holmes played three games for the Broncos, catching one pass for 5 yards. He had 12 catches for 157 yards with Buffalo this season.

 

Holmes, 30, also has played in Dallas and Oakland in his seven-year career, catching 128 passes for 1,744 yards and 15 touchdowns

Ouch...this might be 'all she wrote' for his career unless he somehow storms back in somebody's training camp as an extra body. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Ouch...this might be 'all she wrote' for his career unless he somehow storms back in somebody's training camp as an extra body. 

 

Wasn't KB a game-day inactive for the AFC Championship?

 

Answering my own question:  Yes. &nbsp; Yes, he was.

[Nanker]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wasn't KB a game-day inactive for the AFC Championship?

 

Answering my own question:  Yes. &nbsp; Yes, he was.

He played in three games for KC, was targeted 5 times, made 2 catches for a total of 26 yards.

He wasn't targeted at all in the playoffs.

 

No wonder KC lost to the Pats***

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Nanker said:

He played in three games for KC, was targeted 5 times, made 2 catches for a total of 26 yards.

He wasn't targeted at all in the playoffs.

 

No wonder KC lost to the Pats***

 

 

I forget which game it was, but I saw him alligator-arm a Mahomes pass that hit him just to the L of his numbers about shoulder-pad height.  Was it a perfect pass from Mahomes, No.  Was it a pass a quality NFL WR should have hauled in with no problems, Absolutely.

 

I would be surprised if Benjamin continues with football.  I think he Got Paid and he now wants to build him a nice house with a front porch he can sit on, and enjoy the view.  I think he was kidding himself maybe that the problem was his QBs, but he got his shot with Wonderboy and as you say.....

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wasn't KB a game-day inactive for the AFC Championship?

 

Answering my own question:  Yes. &nbsp; Yes, he was.

Are you sure?  I thought he was they guy they sent back to the KC locker room to pick up Coach Reid’s copy of ‘Using Your Timeouts Wisely’.

[JPP]

No surprise....Benjamin was the "Mike Tolbert" of the WR corp....Holmes was useless here......

[Stank_Nasty]

49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I forget which game it was, but I saw him alligator-arm a Mahomes pass that hit him just to the L of his numbers about shoulder-pad height.  Was it a perfect pass from Mahomes, No.  Was it a pass a quality NFL WR should have hauled in with no problems, Absolutely.

 

I would be surprised if Benjamin continues with football.  I think he Got Paid and he now wants to build him a nice house with a front porch he can sit on, and enjoy the view.  I think he was kidding himself maybe that the problem was his QBs, but he got his shot with Wonderboy and as you say.....

Oh I remember that play and I cracked up watching it! THAT was Allens #1 option for over half the year.... dude couldn't even crack the lineup of a good squad. that's insane...

 

i'm just gonna assume allens accuracy issues are what landed KB on KC's healthy scratch list ?

 

…. that's the trendy thing to blame around here nowadays. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[eball]

To think the Bills went into this season relying upon Benjamin and Holmes as significant members of the WR corps...ouch.  I don't care who you blame -- Beane, McD, Whaley (for the cap situation) -- that's just awful.

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

To think the Bills went into this season relying upon Benjamin and Holmes as significant members of the WR corps...ouch.  I don't care who you blame -- Beane, McD, Whaley (for the cap situation) -- that's just awful.

seriously. the guys couldn't even crack the lineups of other teams. that's absurd.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

It’s crazy to think he was very productive his first couple years. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, JPP said:

No surprise....Benjamin was the "Mike Tolbert" of the WR corp....Holmes was useless here......

 

"It's just a bad season," Benjamin said. "It is what it is. Just football, man. You have good seasons, you have bad seasons. I've had successful seasons in this league. I'll have plenty more. For some reason, it's just not the year."

[JPP]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

"It's just a bad season," Benjamin said. "It is what it is. Just football, man. You have good seasons, you have bad seasons. I've had successful seasons in this league. I'll have plenty more. For some reason, it's just not the year."

Maybe it was too many deserts eaten this past year?