Trent Murphy Cap Hit

[Joeziehmer]

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

[Pbomb]

We need depth for our d line rotation. Why get rid of him and create another hole. When healthy he isn’t that bad. Not sure why people who are battling injuries get crucified. We already will have around 80 mil in cap, how much do we need?

[Joeziehmer]

1 minute ago, Pbomb said:

We need depth for our d line rotation. Why get rid of him and create another hole. When healthy he isn’t that bad. Not sure why people who are battling injuries get crucified. We already will have around 80 mil in cap, how much do we need?

When healthy he gets beat out by Shaq Lawson and has no impact whatsoever.  

[Pbomb]

Just now, Joeziehmer said:

When healthy he gets beat out by Shaq Lawson and has no impact whatsoever.  

He almost had a safety on Sunday,  makes plenty of other plays as well. Maybe Shaq is actually just playing good. I didn’t know Mcbeane lost the locker room too , thanks for the update

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, Joeziehmer said:

When healthy he gets beat out by Shaq Lawson and has no impact whatsoever.  

I'm fine with Hughes, Lawson and Murphy. Think we can get decent production there if we squeeze hard enough.

[Joeziehmer]

3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I'm fine with Hughes, Lawson and Murphy. Think we can get decent production there if we squeeze hard enough.

Maybe, squeezing Murphy into a defensive tackle position might be an incentive for him and give us a return on investment?  

6 minutes ago, Pbomb said:

He almost had a safety on Sunday,  makes plenty of other plays as well. Maybe Shaq is actually just playing good. I didn’t know Mcbeane lost the locker room too , thanks for the update

The gap he was playing and the stunt and x-calls he assigned got gashed.  He makes smart plays but dumb calls and fits a defensive tackle assignment.  

[GunnerBill]

It is $3.5m dead cap to get out after this year, but it is $8.5m to stay tied in. I think it is a no brainer to cut him. His production isn't worth the extra $5m, he has actually been often times a 4th DE behind Hughes, Lawson and Lorax (who plays there generally on pass downs). Add to that we need to draft a young DE early in the 2019 draft - certainly in the first 3 rounds, because Lawson while a fine player isn't a big pressure guy and Hughes will be 31 when next season begins and Lorax will be 36. The wall could come quickly for them and if you are left then with Murphy and Lawson you are in trouble. Dump Murphy, save the cash and take advantage of this excellent class of edge rushers to find a guy you can plug in on your line for the next 10 years.

[Victory Formation]

6 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said:

Maybe, squeezing Murphy into a defensive tackle position might be an incentive for him and give us a return on investment?  

Murphy can get you 8-10 sacks when he's healthy and I haven't given up on Lawson yet he was a 1st round pick. They can hold down that LE spot just fine.

[Rc2catch]

What is the point in cutting Murphy? 

Do we need the cap savings? 

Does his salary next season prevent them from signing anyone? 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

He's battled injuries, but a solid player when healthy. OP is just a whine just to whine type.

[SoCal Deek]

I thought we had the #1 defense in the league. And have been pretty much injury free. Why are we worried about this?

[wppete]

Murphy has looked good the last couple of games. We just have to get Murphy playing at 100% healthy. Might as well sit him out for the rest of the year and assure he is healthy for next year start. 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by wppete

[transient]

And the beat goes on... ? 

[Royale with Cheese]

Why can't we have both Lawson and Murphy?  Is it a bad thing to have at least two solid DE's in a rotation?

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 hour ago, Pbomb said:

We need depth for our d line rotation. Why get rid of him and create another hole. When healthy he isn’t that bad. Not sure why people who are battling injuries get crucified. We already will have around 80 mil in cap, how much do we need?

Agreed. He is a very good rotational player when available.

[Royale with Cheese]

LOL....here's the snap count for the season.  

Only one game this season when both were healthy did Shaq get more snaps.  OP did the same thing yesterday with Charles Clay.  Get your facts straight man....geezus.

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 hour ago, Joeziehmer said:

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

 

I'm sorry, what?  I understand the season, but the locker room?  What have you seen the last few weeks that makes you think he has lost the locker room?  

 

Murphy has decent production for a rotational guy.  Why do we need to cut him?  What do we gain by doing that?  Its not like we need the cap room.  

 

What is this thread? 

[Pete]

Good depth player and very good when healthy.  We are getting out of dead cap hell, why get buried again?  Our cap situation is great.  We have 10 picks.  Lets not create holes, so we can improve upon roster where it is needed

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Why can't we have both Lawson and Murphy?  Is it a bad thing to have at least two solid DE's in a rotation?

Two DEs that can’t rush the passer aren’t worth much. Murphy isn’t moving well at all and bringing him back at 8.5? is an unnessecary gamble. Go back into FA and spin the wheel again.

 

 

[mjt328]

We badly needed help on the D-Line this offseason, and Trent Murphy has been a solid rotational DE when healthy.  

Part of the reason that he's playing less is because the "younger and healthier" Shaq Lawson is developing into one of our better players.  Not because he is playing bad.

 

Overall his cap hit (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/trent-murphy-14456/) the next two years is pretty easy to manage ($6.8 and 7.2 million).  Especially considering the large amount of cap space we have available.  And if the Bills decide to move on, the dead cap is only $3.5 and $1.7 million in 2019-2020 - not the large number that you stated in the original post.

 

I'm also curious about your comment of Beane/McDermott "losing the locker room" this season, which is a total joke with absolutely no basis.

This team was a finger-tip catch away from winning 3 games in a row.

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Commonsense said:

Two DEs that can’t rush the passer aren’t worth much. Murphy isn’t moving well at all and bringing him back at 8.5? is an unnessecary gamble. Go back into FA and spin the wheel again.

 

 

 

I understand bringing new guys in, but why cut Murphy and take the cap hit?  What does that get you?  

[oldmanfan]

They may be looking to add something at that position in the draft.  A very strong defensive draft so getting a edge rusher in round 1 would be a good use of a pick.  Murphy I can go either way given what they get in the draft; Lawson has had a pretty good year, Yarborough is a solid rotational guy. 

 

And to the OP:  McD has done exactly the opposite of losing the locker room.  You have no clue and your rants are ridiculous at this point.

[CommonCents]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I understand bringing new guys in, but why cut Murphy and take the cap hit?  What does that get you?  

The hit is 3.5? The difference is 5 million to keep him? I’d rather keep the 5 million and put it towards a more reliable player. They could also use it on a situational pass rusher if they plan on keeping Lawson. 

 

Trent has done nothing this season and his body looks like it’s toast. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Two DEs that can’t rush the passer aren’t worth much. Murphy isn’t moving well at all and bringing him back at 8.5? is an unnessecary gamble. Go back into FA and spin the wheel again.

 

 

 

When Murphy is healthy, he gets pressure.  It's not Demarcus Ware/Von Miller duo but Murphy has complimented Hughes well.  Our entire defensive line has and pressure/sacks have gone up this year.  Murphy is a part of that.  He's getting the snaps because he's doing a good job while out there.  McDermott isn't afraid to sit someone not producing.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Commonsense said:

The hit is 3.5? The difference is 5 million to keep him? I’d rather keep the 5 million and put it towards a more reliable player. They could also use it on a situational pass rusher if they plan on keeping Lawson. 

 

Trent has done nothing this season and his body looks like it’s toast. 

 

Few things.  First, the cap hit is not year to year.  When you sign and cut guys, you do some based on how it affects the cap over a period of years.  So it is not that simple of a trade off.  

 

Second, an extra 5 million on the tens of million we already have does not make the difference. 

 

Third, who are they bringing in during Free Agency that plays better than Trent at DE, necessitating the extra cap space? 

 

Fourth, Trent has 4 sacks in 8 games(?)  That isn't "nothing." A half sack per game is not great, but it is perfectly average, in a league where average is really hard to find (Also, DE is wayyyyy more than just pass rushing; setting the edge and run stops matter, things which he does well).   

 

Do I want better? Sure.  But creating holes just to create holes, especially on a team that needs upgrades all over the offense, is the opposite of "common sense."

[colin]

cut him for who?  why?  90 sticks in cap and we want to get an extra 5?

 

none of this makes any sense at any level.

[Magox]

I didn't know McD/Beane lost the locker room.    Anyone have a link of that?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

I didn't know McD/Beane lost the locker room.    Anyone have a link of that?

 

Yesterday he said that we turned down Bill Cowher for a HC job.

[hemma]

I can't believe Beane misplaced an entire locker room.

Where do they put their stuff?  Do they even get to shower?

[Captain Hindsight]

53 minutes ago, wppete said:

Murphy has looked good the last couple of games. We just have to get Murphy playing at 100% healthy. Might as well sit him out for the rest of the year and assure he is healthy for next year start. 

 

 

He needs another month off before taking off 7 months before TC?

[Bill_with_it]

2 hours ago, Joeziehmer said:

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

Man this is a terrible thread. No The Gm and Hc most certainly did not lose the locker room. 

[CommonCents]

25 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Few things.  First, the cap hit is not year to year.  When you sign and cut guys, you do some based on how it affects the cap over a period of years.  So it is not that simple of a trade off.  

 

Second, an extra 5 million on the tens of million we already have does not make the difference. 

 

Third, who are they bringing in during Free Agency that plays better than Trent at DE, necessitating the extra cap space? 

 

Fourth, Trent has 4 sacks in 8 games(?)  That isn't "nothing." A half sack per game is not great, but it is perfectly average, in a league where average is really hard to find (Also, DE is wayyyyy more than just pass rushing; setting the edge and run stops matter, things which he does well).   

 

Do I want better? Sure.  But creating holes just to create holes, especially on a team that needs upgrades all over the offense, is the opposite of "common sense."

4 sacks and 17 tackles from a guy that is in and out of the trainers room as much as anyone. “Common sense” says bail on that player and be thankful that the cap hit is minimal. Don’t double down on a dissapointing signing, admit a mistake and move on.

 

As Gunner said above, now would be a great time to get younger at DE and get a stud in place behind Hughes. This won’t be popular here but if I’m in charge I’m paying Trey Flowers big money, he is worth it and is just 25. Then I’d still be able to use the most valuable picks on the other side of the ball. 

 

Other options are Frank Clark, take a flyer on Fowler etc. I’m not heading into the 19’ season with one legit rusher. The Bills are in position for a big turn around next season and have plenty of flexibility in FA and in the draft. Their hands aren’t tied and staying the course at DE is a fail.

 

You can disagree without being snarky. 

[BuffAlone]

Anybody have the Vegas line on the OP's duration on this board? I'm trying to create some cap space before Xmas ?

[RyanC883]

Murphy will improve when we add another Josh Allen in the 1st round

 

https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/06/14/kentucky-wildcats-josh-allen-nfl-draft

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

46 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

4 sacks and 17 tackles from a guy that is in and out of the trainers room as much as anyone. “Common sense” says bail on that player and be thankful that the cap hit is minimal. Don’t double down on a dissapointing signing, admit a mistake and move on.

 

As Gunner said above, now would be a great time to get younger at DE and get a stud in place behind Hughes. This won’t be popular here but if I’m in charge I’m paying Trey Flowers big money, he is worth it and is just 25. Then I’d still be able to use the most valuable picks on the other side of the ball. 

 

Other options are Frank Clark, take a flyer on Fowler etc. I’m not heading into the 19’ season with one legit rusher. The Bills are in position for a big turn around next season and have plenty of flexibility in FA and in the draft. Their hands aren’t tied and staying the course at DE is a fail.

 

You can disagree without being snarky. 

 

That's fair.  

 

The only thing I will say is that Flowers has 4.5 sacks and 19 tackles, but he has played the whole year.  On a per game basis, he has less production.  That is without considering the DL rotation the Bills use.  That isn't a need thing.  McDermott firmly believes in rotating his guys, whether its Hughes, Williams, or Star.  Flowers would have less production on this defense.  He isn't an upgrade. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Joeziehmer said:

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

Players like Clay and Murphy just destroy a teams ability to improve and move forward. Mostly injured and way overpaid based on their production. I don't have the answer on what to do with these 2 based on the huge cap hit? But it sure would be nice to replace them both with promising healthy rookies. 

[CommonCents]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That's fair.  

 

The only thing I will say is that Flowers has 4.5 sacks and 19 tackles, but he has played the whole year.  On a per game basis, he has less production.  That is without considering the DL rotation the Bills use.  That isn't a need thing.  McDermott firmly believes in rotating his guys, whether its Hughes, Williams, or Star.  Flowers would have less production on this defense.  He isn't an upgrade. 

40 tackles.

 

It’s hard to accurately guesstimate numbers when switching schemes and supporting casts. I get stuck watching the Pats game a lot and I’m confident that Flowers is much better than Murphy/Lawson. I take the better player and expect his stats to follow suit when being put into a better situation. 

 

I read a good article back during camp comparing Flowers and Hunter from the Vikings. Similar careers so far though Flowers hasn’t been afforded the opportunity of playing with another pass rusher. Hunter got 5/72 with 40 million guaranteed. No small commitment, you sign Flowers you need to expect his numbers to grow.

 

DE is one of the few positions I’d overpay for. With Allen on his rookie deal and the abundance of dead money coming off the books this signing would make sense. They could then use the draft picks on a few blue chip offensive guys. The Bills have spent some good resources on building a defense, another pass rusher would make it next level. 

 

I’m not picking on Lawson/Murphy. Murphy’s health is the concern and even with Lawson’s improvements the Bills aren’t in position where they have to settle on a serviceable player. I’d be open to keeping a guy like Lawson as depth if he comes on a reasonable deal, I value him more than Murphy.

[Joeziehmer]

4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Players like Clay and Murphy just destroy a teams ability to improve and move forward. Mostly injured and way overpaid based on their production. I don't have the answer on what to do with these 2 based on the huge cap hit? But it sure would be nice to replace them both with promising healthy rookies. 

And, he got gashed running stunts and x-calls oh his side defensively.  We are stuck for three years with Trent Murphy and could squeeze him down into a tackle spot to free up that gap and lane for a younger healthier body. 

[Niagara Dude]

3 hours ago, Joeziehmer said:

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

This is a loser and put together with tape, cut him

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

10 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

40 tackles.

 

It’s hard to accurately guesstimate numbers when switching schemes and supporting casts. I get stuck watching the Pats game a lot and I’m confident that Flowers is much better than Murphy/Lawson. I take the better player and expect his stats to follow suit when being put into a better situation. 

 

I read a good article back during camp comparing Flowers and Hunter from the Vikings. Similar careers so far though Flowers hasn’t been afforded the opportunity of playing with another pass rusher. Hunter got 5/72 with 40 million guaranteed. No small commitment, you sign Flowers you need to expect his numbers to grow.

 

DE is one of the few positions I’d overpay for. With Allen on his rookie deal and the abundance of dead money coming off the books this signing would make sense. They could then use the draft picks on a few blue chip offensive guys. The Bills have spent some good resources on building a defense, another pass rusher would make it next level. 

 

I’m not picking on Lawson/Murphy. Murphy’s health is the concern and even with Lawson’s improvements the Bills aren’t in position where they have to settle on a serviceable player. I’d be open to keeping a guy like Lawson as depth if he comes on a reasonable deal, I value him more than Murphy.

 

My bad, I read the wrong column.  

 

I suppose part of this is I just don't trust a Pats DE.  Jones was good, but aside from that, how many go on to play well?  Its such a scheme defense. Maybe I'm still jaded by Anderson?  

 

The key to not getting in salary cap hell is evaluating how much of an upgrade you get for your dollars.  Whatever we pay Flowers, which will be more than we pay Murphy, you will have to tack on the extra $5 million you paid to cut Murphy.  Does he get you enough additional value?  I have a hard time believing that.  But that is also because I think Murphy is a really good player when he is on the field.  I just don't think his injury problems with the Bills have been that bad.  Most if it has to do with the narrative that followed him.  If he gets hurt again this year, maybe.  Otherwise, I am just as comfortable sticking with him.