Dion Dawkins

[Rigotz]

I've seen this in a number of threads now:

"We need to draft a Left Tackle #1 and move Dawkins inside because ______"

Why? Everyone said the same thing about Cordy Glenn and I didn't understand that either.

 

1. He's the only player on our Offensive Line that has an above average PFF grade:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/dion-dawkins/11818

 

2. "He's not long enough to play tackle" ... what? He has 35'' arm length, which is above average for any tackle.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dion-dawkins?id=2557875

 

3. He has ZERO help inside ... which is important, because bad guard play is making him do more iso with worse communication.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-6

 

Most importantly he's 24 years old.  ... he can run block and pass block ... and he plays with a mean streak.

Please stop this stupid narrative that we desperately need a Left Tackle.

We need Wide Receivers and basically every other O-Line position first.

 

[GoBills808]

I am not as enamored of Dawkins as are some. I think he's merely serviceable. 

[blacklabel]

Yeah, I think Dawkins is fine. They wanted out of Glenn's contract and things kinda happened organically at that position. Glenn got hurt, Dawkins stepped in and played well. I'm sure Incognito helped him along but overall, he's been solid. And Ducasse hasn't been as abysmal as people think. Any OL has to play well as a unit and right now I'd say Bodine and Miller are the weak links. I thought Miller could bounce back to his 2016 form but he hasn't. Bodine is serviceable but he gets man-handled far too often. MIlls on the right side has actually been decent.... until he faces a speed rusher like Khalil Mack.

 

Oh, lil' Nate... be prepared to run for yo' life!

[thenorthremembers]

He is an above average left tackle who is still incredibly young.  He is the least of our worries.  Does he whiff sometimes, yes he does.  Do most tackles, yes they do.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I've seen this in a number of threads now:

"We need to draft a Left Tackle #1 and move Dawkins inside because ______"

Why? Everyone said the same thing about Cordy Glenn and I didn't understand that either.

 

1. He's the only player on our Offensive Line that has an above average PFF grade:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/dion-dawkins/11818

 

2. "He's not long enough to play tackle" ... what? He has 35'' arm length, which is above average for any tackle.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dion-dawkins?id=2557875

 

3. He has ZERO help inside ... which is important, because bad guard play is making him do more iso with worse communication.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-6

 

Most importantly he's 24 years old.  ... he can run block and pass block ... and he plays with a mean streak.

Please stop this stupid narrative that we desperately need a Left Tackle.

We need Wide Receivers and basically every other O-Line position first.

 

Because Cordy Glenn was a better LT  then Dion Dawkins is.......

 

You just didnt see Cordy get beat.....Dawkins does at times.   This does not mean that Deon cannot play LT...he can....but if we can find a guy who can play LT for us Dion probably has all pro potential as a LG (which is woeful for us right now)

[Rubes]

He's serviceable. However, he did have the "olé" move that allowed the sack/strip of Anderson against the Pats****.

 

[Paulus]

PFF had Demitris Bell rated highly. So many Bills' fans ate that poo up, and cited PFF as fact and gospel.

 

Bell was a bastard, which by default means he had a mean streak. 

 

People claimed he was a great pass blocker and a well-rounded run blocker. 

 

Fans and "experts" maintained that the Bills o-line was in no way a problem. 

 

They were wrong.

 

That said, Dawkins is solid, young, and there are not many people who think that LT is a position of need (outside of OL depth, that is).

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Paulus

[TheBeaneBandit]

I don't think most are using the term desperate, but LT is absolutely upgradable. It would also improve the line as a whole quite a bit. Dawkins would be a killer LG and possibly a great RT so you gotta at least leave the option on the table.

[Peter]

Dawkins would be better with Richie next to him and even better if he were on the right side and Cordy were playing left tackle. 

 

P.S. I never saw Cordy beaten the way I have seen Dion beaten sometimes.  He seems like a great kid but it is clear that he misses Richie next to him.

 

P.P.S. This is another example of the process guys mismanaging a position group.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Peter

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because Cordy Glenn was a better LT  then Dion Dawkins is.......

 

You just didnt see Cordy get beat.....Dawkins does at times.   This does not mean that Deon cannot play LT...he can....but if we can find a guy who can play LT for us Dion probably has all pro potential as a LG (which is woeful for us right now)

 

This is rare for me - but I agree totally with what John said. Dion Dawkins is most definitely not Cordy Glenn. He is a serviceable NFL left tackle. He is a middle of the league guy. He is one of only two people on our offense (with Shady the other) who I believe is capable of starting for another NFL team. But I do think he would be potentially elite at LG and thought that guard was a long term fit for him coming out - I never thought that about Cordy who I always saw as a franchise LT. 

 

My first choice for upgrading the line would be to find an elite LT because I still believe that is a premium position in the NFL and I believe Dawkins would be elite inside.... so there is your elite left side straight away. But that is going to be difficult. Not sure if there is one there in the draft and there definitely isn't in FA. So I am comfortable keeping Dawkins at LT and picking up a couple of the good interior FAs and a FA RT as a good second option. 

[Big Gun]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I am not as enamored of Dawkins as are some. I think he's merely serviceable. 

Same here.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Dawkins will be a pro bowler once Castillo is fired after the bye or at the end of the year.

[Soda Popinski]

Dawkins is the kind of LT that you can win with if you have a great QB.   I think we have more pressing needs on the OL than LT at this point.   That said Van Noy really got him bad on that sack fumble.   so he's got work to do.   I was always adamant they should not move Glenn under any circumstances.   Dawkins...ehh, move him, don't move him, whatever.  just improve the Oline.  

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is rare for me - but I agree totally with what John said. Dion Dawkins is most definitely not Cordy Glenn. He is a serviceable NFL left tackle. He is a middle of the league guy. He is one of only two people on our offense (with Shady the other) who I believe is capable of starting for another NFL team. But I do think he would be potentially elite at LG and thought that guard was a long term fit for him coming out - I never thought that about Cordy who I always saw as a franchise LT. 

 

My first choice for upgrading the line would be to find an elite LT because I still believe that is a premium position in the NFL and I believe Dawkins would be elite inside.... so there is your elite left side straight away. But that is going to be difficult. Not sure if there is one there in the draft and there definitely isn't in FA. So I am comfortable keeping Dawkins at LT and picking up a couple of the good interior FAs and a FA RT as a good second option. 

Thanks....I think

 

I think Dawkins has movement skills that at OG he could get out and block on screens and get on guys at the second level.....something Decausse simply cannot do.

 

With our current OG's we cannot set up and run screens to at all....its pretty bad

[Jpsredemption]

They wanted to get out of Glenns contract...you know the left tackle we had that was really good.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Peter said:

Dawkins would be better with Richie next to him and even better if here were on the right side and Cordy were playing left tackle. 

 

 

I don't think he would be better at RT actually. From what we saw the only time he tried it (pre-season 2017) he looked very unnatural on that side. I think he is a natural left sider and has much more T/G flexibility than R/L flexibility. If Richie and Cordy were both here I'd have flipped Richie to RG (where he had played before both for Miami and the Rams) left Cordy at LT and slipped Dawkins into LG. 

 

I did bang on about Cordy being the 2nd best player on our team after Lesean and being majorly undervalued by many fans for about 3 years before he left. Only now he is gone are people properly appreciating him. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

They wanted to get out of Glenns contract...you know the left tackle we had that was really good.

He WAS good till he started taking on injuries.

 

I would not have moved him because when he is healthy he is was one of the under rated LT's of the league......but I understand why he was moved.   You dont just replace those guys though that is why conflicted when we moved him.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

They wanted to get out of Glenns contract...you know the left tackle we had that was really good.

No question this regime wanted out of the contract but because he was dealt we were able to move up the draft board and select our qb. In my mind the priority was getting the qb. The overall price was steep but it was necessary. On balance it worked out for us. 

[Peter]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he would be better at RT actually. From what we saw the only time he tried it (pre-season 2017) he looked very unnatural on that side. I think he is a natural left sider and has much more T/G flexibility than R/L flexibility. If Richie and Cordy were both here I'd have flipped Richie to RG (where he had played before both for Miami and the Rams) left Cordy at LT and slipped Dawkins into LG. 

 

I did bang on about Cordy being the 2nd best player on our team after Lesean and being majorly undervalued by many fans for about 3 years before he left. Only now he is gone are people properly appreciating him. 

 

At least we can agree that it was foolish to get rid of Cordy (wherever one might play Dion).  Getting rid of Cordy was especially idiotic in light of our huge investment in drafting a very, very raw QB.

 

One would have thought that a guy who came back from a kidney removal would have the character to be part of the "process."

 

COYG

[nucci]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is rare for me - but I agree totally with what John said. Dion Dawkins is most definitely not Cordy Glenn. He is a serviceable NFL left tackle. He is a middle of the league guy. He is one of only two people on our offense (with Shady the other) who I believe is capable of starting for another NFL team. But I do think he would be potentially elite at LG and thought that guard was a long term fit for him coming out - I never thought that about Cordy who I always saw as a franchise LT. 

 

My first choice for upgrading the line would be to find an elite LT because I still believe that is a premium position in the NFL and I believe Dawkins would be elite inside.... so there is your elite left side straight away. But that is going to be difficult. Not sure if there is one there in the draft and there definitely isn't in FA. So I am comfortable keeping Dawkins at LT and picking up a couple of the good interior FAs and a FA RT as a good second option. 

and from many reports...Glenn is playing very well

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is rare for me - but I agree totally with what John said. Dion Dawkins is most definitely not Cordy Glenn. He is a serviceable NFL left tackle. He is a middle of the league guy. He is one of only two people on our offense (with Shady the other) who I believe is capable of starting for another NFL team. But I do think he would be potentially elite at LG and thought that guard was a long term fit for him coming out - I never thought that about Cordy who I always saw as a franchise LT. 

 

My first choice for upgrading the line would be to find an elite LT because I still believe that is a premium position in the NFL and I believe Dawkins would be elite inside.... so there is your elite left side straight away. But that is going to be difficult. Not sure if there is one there in the draft and there definitely isn't in FA. So I am comfortable keeping Dawkins at LT and picking up a couple of the good interior FAs and a FA RT as a good second option. 

exactly,  he only looks amazing at times because the other 4 knuckleheads are so pathetic. We need to replace 3-4 OL spots and draft at least 3 wrs. Not to mention we'll need to draft 25's replacement. That will leave 1 defensive position for mcclappy.....

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

At least we can agree that it was foolish to get rid of Cordy (wherever one might play Dion).  Getting rid of Cordy was especially idiotic in light of our huge investment in drafting a very, very raw QB.

 

One would have thought that a guy who came back from a kidney removal would have the character to be part of the "process."

 

COYG

Its just one of the things you dont do.....not with a Rookie QB

 

They will get it fixed...i do believe that.  Not every decison made by the front office was the right one.

[ctk232]

23 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because Cordy Glenn was a better LT  then Dion Dawkins is.......

 

You just didnt see Cordy get beat.....Dawkins does at times.   This does not mean that Deon cannot play LT...he can....but if we can find a guy who can play LT for us Dion probably has all pro potential as a LG (which is woeful for us right now)

Not just that, but it opens the possibility of swinging Dion to RT and having Mills as depth. What would be amazing is if Teller comes out of nowhere and studs out at RG, but by drafting a tackle we at least can move other lineman around to minimize the immediate needs. Looking at free agency, there aren't many tackles worth picking up, but getting an interior lineman has more chance and worth, albeit not too much in this year's FA crop.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

They wanted to get out of Glenns contract...you know the left tackle we had that was really good.

 

When he wasn't guarding the training table, you mean.

 

[DasNootz]

Getting a stud LT means upgrades at 2 positions (LT and LG) all in one roster add, after moving Dawkins inside.  Getting a LG instead, only improves one position.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, ctk232 said:

Not just that, but it opens the possibility of swinging Dion to RT and having Mills as depth. What would be amazing is if Teller comes out of nowhere and studs out at RG, but by drafting a tackle we at least can move other lineman around to minimize the immediate needs. Looking at free agency, there aren't many tackles worth picking up, but getting an interior lineman has more chance and worth, albeit not too much in this year's FA crop.

Yeah I really would not want Dawkins at RT

 

We need athletic OG's that can pull and get out in front of screens downfield.......the RT has to stay in and block pass rushers

[Peter]

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

When he wasn't guarding the training table, you mean.

 

 

Correction:

 

"When he isn't guarding Andy Dalton."

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

At least we can agree that it was foolish to get rid of Cordy (wherever one might play Dion).  Getting rid of Cordy was especially idiotic in light of our huge investment in drafting a very, very raw QB.

 

One would have thought that a guy who came back from a kidney removal would have the character to be part of the "process."

 

COYG

 

I am the biggest Cordy Glenn fan going. I would not have traded him.

12 minutes ago, nucci said:

and from many reports...Glenn is playing very well

 

Not a single bit surprised. He is an outstanding Left Tackle when healthy. 

[Minotaur]

I have a slightly different take, but different options that I have no preference on:

1) Take a top tackle in the 1st, put him at RT, and check out Mills at G, or

2) Take a G in the 2nd, or

3) Take a C in the 2nd.

 

Of course, this depends on the Board...

[ctk232]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah I really would not want Dawkins at RT

 

We need athletic OG's that can pull and get out in front of screens downfield.......the RT has to stay in and block pass rushers

Good point - Mills has been serviceable, but an absolute liability at times I just don't have faith in the right side of our line. Dawkins at guard for that reason makes sense, but given his performance thus far, it's hard to argue him out of LT for anyone but Little or a franchise tackle.

 

Tangentially, I've been begrudgingly surprised by Ducasse - I still hold to my belief that he is no longer a starter in the league, but he's performed well this season overall. Just not sure if it's a case of big fish small pond given our overall line talent, or if he's starting a renaissance of his career...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

when healthy. 

 

Key words.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

34 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because Cordy Glenn was a better LT  then Dion Dawkins is.......

 

You just didnt see Cordy get beat.....Dawkins does at times.   This does not mean that Deon cannot play LT...he can....but if we can find a guy who can play LT for us Dion probably has all pro potential as a LG (which is woeful for us right now)

 

 

Back to LG NOW?  

 

Two seasons in that genie is out of the bottle........he and his agent will not go for that.

 

You'd better be sure you aren't going to want to upgrade if you move a young player to a high dollar $ position.

 

If they play well and you move them you are messing with their money.

 

[Rigotz]

I love the revisionist history on this message board.

I remember everyone wanting Cordy's big contract gone because he had two injured feet and barely saw the field.

 

Now it's another horrible "McBeane" decision I guess ... because we hate them now ... for some reason.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Rigotz

[Misterbluesky]

38 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I am not as enamored of Dawkins as are some. I think he's merely serviceable. 

He's pretty solid if we're talking power run blocking...I can't wait for the day McDermott wakes up and gives Wyatt Teller his shot at LG.Teller has nice feet and pulls out,just like Richie did....Dawkins bulls up..swing out Teller and you can get a running game going.Just my two cents worth.Peace

[freddyjj]

19 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

Getting a stud LT means upgrades at 2 positions (LT and LG) all in one roster add, after moving Dawkins inside.  Getting a LG instead, only improves one position.

gold star.  Dion at LG would make us forget Richie quickly.  Big, strong, fast and we could use screens again.

[Peter]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am the biggest Cordy Glenn fan going. I would not have traded him.

 

Not a single bit surprised. He is an outstanding Left Tackle when healthy. 

 

Trading Cordy was foolish for so many reasons.

 

P.S. Jenkinson is in the starting 11 today.  Good for Carl.  Perseverance.

[Lurker]

31 minutes ago, JohnC said:

because he was dealt we were able to move up the draft board and select our qb.

 

That was a big miss on Beane's part, IMO.    The better alternative would have been to include a 2019 draft pick in the package needed to move up for the QB.   He would then have the franchise QB and his LT position locked down, allowing Dawkins to fill another spot on the O-line.

 

Instead, he went the high wire route and fell off.     He's still falling and we haven't heard the splash yet, either...

[Peter]

15 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I love the revisionist history on this message board.

I remember everyone wanting Cordy's big contract gone because he had two injured feet and barely saw the field.

 

Now it's another horrible "McBeane" decision I guess ... because we hate them now ... for some reason.

 

Everyone???

 

Not me.

 

You have to pay good players.  That is just the way it is. 

[Tenhigh]

31 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

Getting a stud LT means upgrades at 2 positions (LT and LG) all in one roster add, after moving Dawkins inside.  Getting a LG instead, only improves one position.

A good guard could have the same effect (boosting LG and LT play) and it won't completely ruin any chance we have or resigning DD. 

[Lurker]

1 minute ago, Peter said:

 

Everyone???

 

Not me.

 

You have to pay good players.  That is just the way it is. 

 

Me neither.   Glenn missed roughly 16 games spread across two seasons with an injury that takes about a year to heal.    The same old impatient voices on TSW and elsewhere locked on to a "damaged goods" refrain.  This may have even colored McBeane's thinking, given their lack of history with him.  

 

Sigh...