CJ Beathard only has 3 more career starts than Josh Allen

[BuffaloSkills]

Josh Allen is tall JP Loseman.

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, BobDVA said:

If Jesus was on the Bills, the trolls here would want to trade him for taking too long between the crucifixion and the resurrection. 

Who is this Jesus? And can he throw a 12 yard out accurately?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

21 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen hasn't looked like an NFL QB so far.

 

For the past 3 games he's looked like a 3rd string QB who you have to completely hide to have any chance of winning a game.

 

As I said, Beathard has hardly any talent, but he's accurate and he's in command of the offense.

 

Who cares if you can throw a football 80 yards if you can't read a defense? 

WGR has nailed this theme for awhile - are we supposed to be surprised? 

 

That a middling prospect from the Mountain West, with pedestrian stats and shaky accuracy is playing exactly like his Scouting Reports? 

 

The chances were always slim that he would defy the odds and become a top end starter. 

 

Our GM loved him because he was tall, strong arm and reminded him of Cam Newton. 

[Augie]

Could this be the longest, most painful year ever on this board?

 

The D is looking terrific. We expected the offense to be a mess. It is.  Allen has no weapons and he’s hurt. A Superstar offensive guru like Shanahan could change the looks of things overnight. Oh, and we might need a few offensive players with talent. That would help....

 

Relax.  

[Virgil]

This is my argument for coordinators.  Scheme some easy throws, build confidence, everything gets better 

[IDBillzFan]

1 minute ago, BobDVA said:

If Jesus was on the Bills, the trolls here would want to trade him for taking too long between the crucifixion and the resurrection. 

 

Never underestimate those who love to be miserable, and who need to make everyone miserable with them.

[Ray Finkel]

8 minutes ago, GG said:

Another stroke of bad luck for Bills not to have its administration in order last year for the draft.   Forget the Mahomes trade.   By moving up to select Zay Jones, Bills gave up picks that could have been used on Smith-Schuster AND Beathard.  

 

Just think of that draft to start the McDermott era.  Chances are that Beathard doesn't crap the bed vs Chargers, he rides until the end of the year into thre playoffs, possibly scores into double digits and Bills don't need to spend all the draft capital to move up for Allen.  

 

Amazing how one bad move can set the team back by years.

It has been going on for years.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Ya, they also didn't play in 2018 when the rules are stacked in favour of it being pretty damn easy to throw for a lot of yards. 

 

In 1985 one QB threw for more than 4,000 yards. Last year eight guys did it.

 

80 yards passing nowadays is simply pathetic. 

We had a huge thrown down in another thread today about this. 

 

Could the best QBs today play back in the 1980's, or would they be beaten down by the physicality?

[IDBillzFan]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

Could this be the longest, most painful year ever on this board?

 

The D is looking terrific. We expected the offense to be a mess. It is.  Allen has no weapons and he’s hurt. A Superstar offensive guru like Shanahan could change the looks of things overnight. Oh, and we might need a few offensive players with talent. That would help....

 

Relax.  

 

Hush, and let the misery consume you.

[Brand J]

When I heard the Browns were deciding between drafting Allen or Mayfield, I actually felt sorry for Browns fans, thinking that organization would screw up by taking the biggest question mark in the draft. I didn’t like Allen and it wasn’t because of the often referenced accuracy issues, I didn’t like him as a prospect due to his decision making. He failed to look like a man among boys in the Mountain West conference and often struggled to throw for 200 yards. He’s a Buffalo Bill now, so I’m going to continue hoping he miraculously turns into something he never was, but if he doesn’t, the Bills deserve to toil in mediocrity. 

[batmanfreek]

Of course.  Has nothing to do with the team that is surrounding him or coaching.  It's all QB talent.  Just like Mahomes.  They would both flourish here.  ?

9ers were playoff contenders before Jimmy G went down.  And it wasn't ALL because of him.  It was the combination of couching, QB AND the pieces around him. 

 

We don't have that here.  So before we get into the "Finger of shame to 1BD for not drafting this kid!", that kid and most others would SUCK here. 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 minutes ago, kbarrettb said:

This site defended EJ Manuel for 3 plus years. Even if Allen is garbage which so far he has been it’ll take 3 plus years for anyone to come to some consensus and even then. I imagine some people here still think Manuel got a raw deal and if given the chance he can be an all pro qb. Right not CJ is light years ahead of Allen and it’s really not even close. 

EJ got murdered on draft night here.  I was one of the few EJ defenders.  Sad part is he had a better start to his career than Allen.

Edited October 16, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[zow2]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloSkills said:

Josh Allen is tall JP Loseman.

 

So according to this site he’s a tall Losman, and a white version of Tyrod

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

WGR has nailed this theme for awhile - are we supposed to be surprised? 

 

That a middling prospect from the Mountain West, with pedestrian stats and shaky accuracy is playing exactly like his Scouting Reports? 

 

The chances were always slim that he would defy the odds and become a top end starter. 

 

Our GM loved him because he was tall, strong arm and reminded him of Cam Newton. 

 

The WGR radio guys (minus John Murphy) are all forward thinking football fans. 

 

None of them wanted Allen before we picked him, and they all already know this is going to end badly. 

 

This was the first week they got really critical of him. There were a lot of calls for them to put Allen on the bench for a month and let him learn, because he's obviously not learning anything on the field otherwise he'd show signs of improvement on the field. 

 

Guys like Allen never work out in the NFL. I don't know what we're hoping for but it's overwhelmingly likely it's not going to happen. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, batmanfreek said:

Of course.  Has nothing to do with the team that is surrounding him or coaching.  It's all QB talent.  Just like Mahomes.  They would both flourish here.  ?

9ers were playoff contenders before Jimmy G went down.  And it wasn't ALL because of him.  It was the combination of couching, QB AND the pieces around him. 

 

We don't have that here.  So before we get into the "Finger of shame to 1BD for not drafting this kid!", that kid and most others would SUCK here. 

Allen was the 7th overall pick.  All I here is excusss for him why he isn’t better.  People said that about Wyoming and now here.  I never expected him to light it up.  But it’s ok to expect more than a struggle to get to 100 yards every game. 

[Augie]

I wish Allen had ZERO starts at this point. That’s where the plan went wrong. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

So according to this site he’s a tall Losman, and a white version of Tyrod

Light skinned EJ!

[unclepete]

2 minutes ago, batmanfreek said:

Of course.  Has nothing to do with the team that is surrounding him or coaching.  It's all QB talent.  Just like Mahomes.  They would both flourish here.  ?

9ers were playoff contenders before Jimmy G went down.  And it wasn't ALL because of him.  It was the combination of couching, QB AND the pieces around him. 

 

We don't have that here.  So before we get into the "Finger of shame to 1BD for not drafting this kid!", that kid and most others would SUCK here. 

9ers we’re struggling this year. Last year jimmy put together a string a wins but they were fr from contenders. Their offense is better for sure but Beathard still looks worked bette me than Josh Allen. 

[Teddy KGB]

35 minutes ago, Success said:

Is this really a thread?

 

Are you really not watching him shred the Packers in lambeau ? 

[quinnearlysghost88]

“Looked good last year” 1-5 4tds and 6ints. Nice. 

[unclepete]

13 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The WGR radio guys (minus John Murphy) are all forward thinking football fans. 

 

None of them wanted Allen before we picked him, and they all already know this is going to end badly. 

 

This was the first week they got really critical of him. There were a lot of calls for them to put Allen on the bench for a month and let him learn, because he's obviously not learning anything on the field otherwise he'd show signs of improvement on the field. 

 

Guys like Allen never work out in the NFL. I don't know what we're hoping for but it's overwhelmingly likely it's not going to happen. 

Sub 60% completion percentage + Small School = Red Flag

 

at least Rosen, Darnald, and Mayfield played against high level college competition. It was such a Bills move. And still people will justify it. 

 

Some of us have been fans enough to remember ill advised picks like JP Losman and EJ Manuel. I hope he works out. But I could see him getting beat out by a veteran next year and him fading away into obscurity like EJ if this keeps up 

Edited October 16, 2018 by unclepete

[LeGOATski]

He's what they thought Peterman could be...

[JinxedBill1]

Scheme is a big deal. Play calling is huge.  I really think this is more the difference then anything.

 

See Jared Goff

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The WGR radio guys (minus John Murphy) are all forward thinking football fans. 

 

None of them wanted Allen before we picked him, and they all already know this is going to end badly. 

 

This was the first week they got really critical of him. There were a lot of calls for them to put Allen on the bench for a month and let him learn, because he's obviously not learning anything on the field otherwise he'd show signs of improvement on the field. 

 

Guys like Allen never work out in the NFL. I don't know what we're hoping for but it's overwhelmingly likely it's not going to happen. 

Among other things that this FO has done, it's concerning how hook line and sinker this regime fell for him. 

 

They ended the drought, but this season is a slog and so it's going to be an offseason where they need to hit a home run. 

 

This team is scoring 12.7 ppg right now. 

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, JinxedBill1 said:

Scheme is a big deal. Play calling is huge.  I really think this is more the difference then anything.

 

See Jared Goff

 

Goff was an elite college QB with high end production.

 

Allen was just a guy in the Mountain West Conference. 

[unclepete]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Goff was an elite college QB with high end production.

 

Allen was just a guy in the Mountain West Conference. 

A guy who struggles in the Mountain West 

[CincyBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

“Looked good last year” 1-5 4tds and 6ints. Nice. 

 

Bingo.  I'm also curious as to why people seem to discount the enormous difference a year can make in a QB's development? 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Bingo.  I'm also curious as to why people seem to discount the enormous difference a year can make in a QB's development? 

Exactly he was garbage last year 

[BuffaloSkills]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Bingo.  I'm also curious as to why people seem to discount the enormous difference a year can make in a QB's development? 

Goff had talent in college as a passer.  Allen had arm strength and mobility everything else was suspect

has there ever been a college QB who was a "project" with accuracy, footwork, reading defenses that just one day got nfl good?

 

 

[Success]

1 minute ago, BuffaloSkills said:

Goff had talent in college as a passer.  Allen had arm strength and mobility everything else was suspect

Honestly, most scouts still had him as top 10.  He’s tough as nails and has a great work ethic.  

 

Can’t we just give him more than 5 games before making all kinds of conclusions?

[BuffaloSkills]

Just now, Success said:

Honestly, most scouts still had him as top 10.  He’s tough as nails and has a great work ethic.  

 

Can’t we just give him more than 5 games before making all kinds of conclusions?

yes.  absolutely.  just not seeing signs of hope at this point.  

[Fadingpain]

22 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Bingo.  I'm also curious as to why people seem to discount the enormous difference a year can make in a QB's development? 

That's why you'd like to hold onto Nate Peterman and see how he progresses with more playing time, right?

 

He and Josh Allen have both played 5 games now.  

 

A year can make an enormous difference in a QB's development.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Success said:

Honestly, most scouts still had him as top 10.  He’s tough as nails and has a great work ethic.  

 

Can’t we just give him more than 5 games before making all kinds of conclusions?

Any reason why that doesn't apply to Nate Peterman?

 

 

[Jauronimo]

12 hours ago, BobDVA said:

If Jesus was on the Bills, the trolls here would want to trade him for taking too long between the crucifixion and the resurrection. 

Jesus was a 155 pound pacifist with lead feet.  Anyone with NFL speed would never have been caught by the Romans in the first place.  Even if he Stevie Johnson jukes his way to some separation how the hell is he going to catch the ball with nails in his hands? Do you even watch football?

Edited October 16, 2018 by Jauronimo

[Tim Tindale]

Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford were both dumpster fires their rookie years with numbers that look very similar, if not worse, to what Allen is putting up.  In fact, I remember thinking there was no way Goff would develop into a decent QB because he had such a poor pocket presence in year 1.  Drew Brees’ numbers were still really weak in year 3 with the Chargers (57 pct comp pct, 11 TD, 15 INT, 67 QBR). He didn’t break out until his 4th year. 

 

Here is the NFL.com link to the stats of Rookie QB’s by year.  There is little discernible correlation between rookie and long term success.  Based on their numbers, RGIII, Mike Glennon, and Zach Mettenberger would have looked like potential Top 15 QB’s in the NFL for a long time...

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=0&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go

 

i think history would show that a team has to be willing to invest the time with a QB - certainly beyond one year - to come to any real conclusions.  At the very least, rookie numbers don’t tell us much of anything. 

[cgg716]

It’s like people don’t understand coaches exists. Play designs, schemes. Give Shanahan Allen’s mobility and Arm strength he would be salivating. The game is all schemes, have an elite scheme and these soft rules and production is easy, even with minimal talent 

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said:

Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford were both dumpster fires their rookie years with numbers that look very similar, if not worse, to what Allen is putting up.  In fact, I remember thinking there was no way Goff would develop into a decent QB because he had such a poor pocket presence in year 1.  Drew Brees’ numbers were still really weak in year 3 with the Chargers (57 pct comp pct, 11 TD, 15 INT, 67 QBR). He didn’t break out until his 4th year. 

 

Here is the NFL.com link to the stats of Rookie QB’s by year.  There is little discernible correlation between rookie and long term success.  Based on their numbers, RGIII, Mike Glennon, and Zach Mettenberger would have looked like potential Top 15 QB’s in the NFL for a long time...

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=0&tabSeq=0&qualified=false&Submit=Go

 

i think history would show that a team has to be willing to invest the time with a QB - certainly beyond one year - to come to any real conclusions.  At the very least, rookie numbers don’t tell us much of anything. 

I looked up the stats today.  Allen through 6 weeks (a little over 5 games of action) has very comparable numbers to Goff's 7 or so games his rookie year.  It gives me hope.  Goff looked flat out scared to paly his rookie season.  Allen doesn't look good but he doesn't look like hes scared for his life.  Just hesitant.

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, twoandfourteen said:

Check his career game log:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeatC.00/gamelog/

 

Only one time has this kid been under 200 yards passing in a game. Looks like a star in the making tonight on MNF.

 

Meanwhile, Josh Allen is regularly failing to break 100 yards in a game.

 

Beathard looked competent as a rookie last season with a group of no-name receivers, too. 

 

Only 3 more career starts. Allen needs to get really good, really quickly. 

 

 

Yet the 49'ers believe in Jimmy Garoppolo.

[clayboy54]

Cut him NOW

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said:

At this point, Beathard is leaps and bounds better than Josh Allen. 

Every starter in the NFL and most backups sans Peterson are playing better than Allen unfortunately.

[BobDVA]

46 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Jesus was a 155 pound pacifist with lead feet.  Anyone with NFL speed would never have been caught by the Romans in the first place.  Even if he Stevie Johnson jukes his way to some separation how the hell is he going to catch the ball with nails in his heads? Do you even watch football?

Lead feet yet he walked on water, with nails in his hands he could spike the ball when he caught it not after, he could even cure you, remember the leper thing?