Chris66 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Speaking of fumbles: When you have seen 5 losing one isnt a big deal. I was happy for that 101 year old man that finally got to see his team win a superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Mark Vader said: So it's all a lost cause. Josh Allen will never be successful in this league. Is that the bottom line? allow me: yes. that's his answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Chris66 said: When you have seen 5 losing one isnt a big deal. I was happy for that 101 year old man that finally got to see his team win a superbowl. You were...happy...that they lost? I mean, I get that, so was I. Guess I'm just surprised...though it does make sense that, over a long enough time period, even a Pats***** fan would start to hate their own team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 18 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Look at his stats from his rookie year. That is what really is troubling. CJB was competent out of the box. Meanwhile, JA has a lot of trouble executing a basic NFL passing play. Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen -- all of them have at least exhibited the ability to produce respectable passing production at this early stage in their careers. 200 yards seems impossible right now for Josh Allen. 18 hours ago, BuffaloSkills said: Allen struggles to read defenses, holds the ball and then looks to run. he certainly doesn't look like a QB you take top 10 HELLLLOOOOOOO. Everyone with a clue knew Josh Allen was abysmal and should have never been drafted. Only the Bills could possibly employ a scout dumb enough to think he's an early round pick let alone top ten. Here is only.one example. https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/dan-orlovsky-2018-nfl-draft-class-quarterback-breakdown Fire the QB scouting Dept and just draft whomever this guy likes next tine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: some of you guys a being SUPER TROLLS C.J. Beathard was 1-4 last season 54.9 % comp 4 TD and 6 INT 19 sacks Now he's a stud? SMH. For a kid in his 8th career start, he sure looked like one in the making last night. Better than anything the Bills have currently or have had since Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: You were...happy...that they lost? I mean, I get that, so was I. Guess I'm just surprised...though it does make sense that, over a long enough time period, even a Pats***** fan would start to hate their own team. Who could possibly like that team? Can’t blame Pats fans for finally coming around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, jkirchofer said: They drafted him under the understanding that they would teach him to read a defense. They have not accomplished that goal. Nor have they built the game plan that allows him to grow. They play it safe and vanilla because that is all McDermott and Dabol are capable of doing. If this kid washes out of the NFL, it is their fault. This is something that I definitely can't argue, especially given the current state of the position on this team. To this point, they have shown that they have absolutely zero clue how to manage the most important position in professional sports. 2 hours ago, Mark Vader said: So it's all a lost cause. Josh Allen will never be successful in this league. Is that the bottom line? It's not trending in a good direction at this point in time and he appears to be miles and miles and miles behind other comparable, young QBs. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I see where you're coming from now. I would say he looks better in some ways even comparing to the Vikings game. The things folks are getting on him about are his ability to get pre-snap reads and go to a guy quickly, his pocket presence, and his accuracy particularly on short passes. I think he looked pretty good on all those Sunday. Now, that may be because the plays are calling for less reads. I don't know that; none of us would without knowing the play calls. But on most of his drop backs Sunday he looked like he knew right where he wanted to go with the ball and delivered it. That to me is progress. Other than the horrible first pass he either was putting the ball right on guys, or missing where it was a smart miss and where defenders could not make a play on the ball. He still needs to hang in the pocket longer on some throws. I think that will come with time. If what you are saying is that progress can only be defined as being better week 1, vs 2, then 2, vs 3, and so on, I would disagree. Young QB's will have ups and downs, good games and bad. Mayfield for example had a tough day this past Sunday, but I would not say he regressed. He just had a day that will happen with young QBs as they figure things out. That would be a pretty good definition for regression, not progression. Just how old are you, Oldmanfan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: That would be a pretty good definition for regression, not progression. Just how old are you, Oldmanfan? You want to discuss regression analysis? You really want to go there? Young QBs tend to fluctuate, have good games and bad. The person I was responding to seemed to suggest progression involved game to game to game improvement. That's not necessarily the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Shhhh You don't confuse them with facts I've already explained why this point should make Bills fans even more concerned about the current state of the position. CJB is clearly an upgrade over Josh Allen right now. It's so glaring that they appear to be playing two different sports at times. Bills fans would throw a parade at this point for 235 and a couple of TDs and an offense that scores 30 points in a game. However, the 49ers didn't believe CJB was good enough and made a huge move in an attempt to upgrade even more. That should tell you something -- we'd be thrilled with CJB, but he's not even good enough for his current team. That's how far behind the rest of the league this Bills team is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: 3-more-career-starts and a Year riding the pine learning CJB didn't really "ride the pine" & learn. He played a bunch last year, 6 games with 5 starts on a really, really bad 49ers team. 9 games (8 starts) -- 196/338 57.4% 2322 yds 10TD 11INT 75.3RTG He's averaging 258 yds/gm. Not too bad for a rookie QB taken in the 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 32 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: For a kid in his 8th career start, he sure looked like one in the making last night. Better than anything the Bills have currently or have had since Orton. The Packers Defense was hot trash last night per the sports media I have listened to today Im not saying he is garbage but 1 great game doesn’t prove anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Clyde Smith said: Well look at the QB's that was throwing to him prior to going to SF. That is why is numbers are low. Imagine if he had QB's that can consistently get him the ball....Oh wait! excellent point which people on here constantly miss. a WR cant throw the ball to himself.If you are a WR and have a crappy QB you are screwed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: CJB didn't really "ride the pine" & learn. He played a bunch last year, 6 games with 5 starts on a really, really bad 49ers team. 9 games (8 starts) -- 196/338 57.4% 2322 yds 10TD 11INT 75.3RTG He's averaging 258 yds/gm. Not too bad for a rookie QB taken in the 3rd round. Look purely at his numbers from his rookie season...they are eerily similar to Allen's. Not surprising considering he was a rookie playing on a bad team (of course, I'd take the 2017 49ers' non-QB offensive personnel 10 times out of 10 over the 2018 Bills' non-QB personnel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 12 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: CJB didn't really "ride the pine" & learn. He played a bunch last year, 6 games with 5 starts on a really, really bad 49ers team. 9 games (8 starts) -- 196/338 57.4% 2322 yds 10TD 11INT 75.3RTG He's averaging 258 yds/gm. Not too bad for a rookie QB taken in the 3rd round. riding the range was a joke. See last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Tcali said: excellent point which people on here constantly miss. a WR cant throw the ball to himself.If you are a WR and have a crappy QB you are screwed. The bigger issue with Goodwin was health and dedication to football prior to getting to SF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 He was benched for JG after 1 win. The 9ers were bad this season josh kicked ass in Minnesota. Is he good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 50 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: For a kid in his 8th career start, he sure looked like one in the making last night. Better than anything the Bills have currently or have had since Orton. He lost. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: riding the range was a joke. See last post. My fault, I'll go take a lap. 2 minutes ago, FLFan said: He lost. Again. W-L is too subjective a stat. The Bills' QB recently lost a game that the defense should have won. Mark Sanchez & Brock Osweiler have winning records at QB. I'm simply looking at production only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 19 hours ago, zow2 said: Someday, I hope and pray Josh Allen can become as good as CJ Beathard. ....and Dabumble as good as Shanahan may help......naw, it's all Josh............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, twoandfourteen said: My fault, I'll go take a lap. W-L is too subjective a stat. The Bills' QB recently lost a game that the defense should have won. Mark Sanchez & Brock Osweiler have winning records at QB. I'm simply looking at production only. Win/loss is too subjective a stat, but the crap you are relying on is not? Do you even hear yourself? Your arguement is foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, FLFan said: Win/loss is too subjective a stat, but the crap you are relying on is not? Do you even hear yourself? Your arguement is foolishness. You mean Passing yards, TDs, & games started? I'm judging QB production, not launching a rocket. Edited October 16, 2018 by twoandfourteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: You mean Passing yards, TDs, & games started? I'm judging QB production, not launching a rocket. I already explained my logic in a previous post, but in the real world, QB production is ultimately gauged by wins and losses. He lost last night, as he a,ways does. His team scored 6 points in the second half. That's is not good production. He is a semi- adequate backup at this point. Yes, I wish he was our backup because I certainly think he is better than Peterman. Your conclusions in comparing him to Allen are faulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, FLFan said: I already explained my logic in a previous post, but in the real world, QB production is ultimately gauged by wins and losses. He lost last night, as he a,ways does. His team scored 6 points in the second half. That's is not good production. He is a semi- adequate backup at this point. Yes, I wish he was our backup because I certainly think he is better than Peterman. Your conclusions in comparing him to Allen are faulty. Then you would obviously view Mark Sanchez & Brock Osweiler as titans at the position because they have winning records. I'm looking to gauge basic competence at the position and skill development. Yards & TDs are the basic measures of skill at the QB position. For example, if I were looking to figure out how tall a guy was, I'd look at how many feet & inches he stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: The bigger issue with Goodwin was health and dedication to football prior to getting to SF During his time with the bills he was on kickoff return team, in Frisco none. Might have something to do with his health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 21 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: At this point, Beathard is leaps and bounds better than Josh Allen. Great...another backup QB better than our starter...where have I seen this movie before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 2 hours ago, thebandit27 said: The bigger issue with Goodwin was health and dedication to football prior to getting to SF thats true--but i went to the bigger picture to make a point. you are correct though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Great...another backup QB better than our starter...where have I seen this movie before? The truth is he’s probably not. Haters gunna hate How many wins? 2 each of does Bethard now have 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceman_16 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 22 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Check his career game log: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeatC.00/gamelog/ Only one time has this kid been under 200 yards passing in a game. Looks like a star in the making tonight on MNF. Meanwhile, Josh Allen is regularly failing to break 100 yards in a game. Beathard looked competent as a rookie last season with a group of no-name receivers, too. Only 3 more career starts. Allen needs to get really good, really quickly. Oh snap... what round was he drafted in this year??? Oh wait - wrong draft? So he isn't a rookie? Next thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Beathard and Osweiler each played OK this week. And odds are big they will have poor games coming up. But because of one game their history is ignored and some here complain we don't have either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Tim Tebow..... whats he doing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Beathard and Osweiler each played OK this week. And odds are big they will have poor games coming up. But because of one game their history is ignored and some here complain we don't have either of them. This is utterly and completely false. I encourage all of you to take a good long look at CJ Beathard's career log -- especially his production as a rookie last year. In fact, last year I was using CJ Beathard as an example of how limited Tyrod was and how far behind the Bills were as an offense. Here was a 3rd round rookie who was able to produce respectable passing yardage, and yet our 7th year vet couldn't crack 200 half the time. I didn't think it could get any worse. But, leave it to the Bills to consistently redefine "rock bottom". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: This is utterly and completely false. I encourage all of you to take a good long look at CJ Beathard's career log -- especially his production as a rookie last year. In fact, last year I was using CJ Beathard as an example of how limited Tyrod was and how far behind the Bills were as an offense. Here was a 3rd round rookie who was able to produce respectable passing yardage, and yet our 7th year vet couldn't crack 200 half the time. I didn't think it could get any worse. But, leave it to the Bills to consistently redefine "rock bottom". His career: 58% completion rate, 10TD/11Int, rating around 78. About what I'd expect of a backup guy. Some good, some bad. Seems like a pretty good second guy to have. And not utterly false, just at odds with your opinion that you apparently confuse with fact. Allen has played 5 games with a weaker supporting cast. We'll see how he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YodaMan79 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 4 hours ago, FLFan said: He lost. Again. Not until McMahon showed up on that BS penalty on a 3rd down sack. Officials bailed GB out big time. That's not the QBs fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: His career: 58% completion rate, 10TD/11Int, rating around 78. About what I'd expect of a backup guy. Some good, some bad. Seems like a pretty good second guy to have. And not utterly false, just at odds with your opinion that you apparently confuse with fact. Allen has played 5 games with a weaker supporting cast. We'll see how he does. I agree -- pretty solid performance for a #2 guy who has only played 11 games with a pretty bad team. The problem is that his career is just a shade longer than Allen's and his numbers are far superior. What does that say about our guy? Do you see my point now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I can't remember who the poster was, but someone here was propping this guy up last season, saying he was a late round gem and could be a real player. He had some crappy games last year but looked pretty solid last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Helpmenow said: During his time with the bills he was on kickoff return team, in Frisco none. Might have something to do with his health Not really. He was often injured on fairly routine looking tackles while playing WR. He was training for track , and not for survival as an NFL WR. When his Bills contract was winding down , then he got serious about staying in the league. 7 hours ago, FLFan said: He lost. Again. Beathard is much better than Allen at this point. I can say that with confidence. SFs defense isn’t as good as the Bills. The Bills with Beathard would have a decent chance of beating the Packers at Lambeau. They were unable to compete with Allen at the helm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Not really. He was often injured on fairly routine looking tackles while playing WR. He was training for track , and not for survival as an NFL WR. When his Bills contract was winding down , then he got serious about staying in the league. Beathard is much better than Allen at this point. I can say that with confidence. SFs defense isn’t as good as the Bills. The Bills with Beathard would have a decent chance of beating the Packers at Lambeau. They were unable to compete with Allen at the helm. Again he had 16 kickoff returns in 2013. 10 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Tim Tebow..... whats he doing??? Better than peterman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: I agree -- pretty solid performance for a #2 guy who has only played 11 games with a pretty bad team. The problem is that his career is just a shade longer than Allen's and his numbers are far superior. What does that say about our guy? Do you see my point now? No I don't see your point. Beathard has been around the league a lot more with better players around him. Allen is just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 24 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Better than peterman that was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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