Mind numbing as to why Daboll isnt doing what McVay did with Goff last year

[Big Turk]

I just dont get it. You have a raw QB who has problems with recognition, why wouldnt you get to the line so the D has to show their alignment and Daboll then has 10 or 12 seconds to talk through it with Allen? It did wonders for Goff. I mean he literally showed everyone how to do it with a young QB but nobody seems to follow suit.

 

This is just inexcusable. Its one thing to teach him after the play and on film. Its another thing to help him diagnose and make the right decisions on the field so he can see and feel what it looks like to do that in real time.

 

This is just bad coaching. He needs help, you have the ability to help him and you choose not to. Why? What justification could he possibly have for not doing this?  Why aren't the Buffalo media all over McDermott and Daboll for not doing this with Allen? He needs it badly. He looks lost whenever they blitz and doesnt read it.

Edited October 3, 2018 by matter2003

[Bills Fan in Beantown]

This is a good breakdown of how Josh is not picking up the blitz: 

https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1047182491688341505

Amazing that we're going from, let's win games, to let's make sure he doesn't get killed out there. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Bills Fan in Beantown

[uticaclub]

Josh isn't like most rookie QBs, he wasn't that good in college. He's going to take a lot of time to maybe turn into a NFL QB, the upside is there purely from this physical tools, the actual playing football and being a well rounded QB

[DJB]

Because  Daboll is incompetent ?  

 

Why doesn't Daboll just watch every play Mcvay ,  Andy Reid and Pedersen  run for their teams and combine it to make it the Bills play book ? 

 

Instead most of these guys are so stuck in their ways and Daboll only seems to call go routes. Not slants, not WR screens, nothing.

[Commish]

32 minutes ago, Bills Fan in Beantown said:

This is a good breakdown of how Josh is not picking up the blitz: 

https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1047182491688341505

Amazing that we're going from, let's win games, to let's make sure he doesn't get killed out there. 

The OP may have a good idea, but read this before you start giving Orlovsky to much credit:

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

4 minutes ago, DJB said:

Because  Daboll is incompetent ?  

 

Why doesn't Daboll just watch every play Mcvay ,  Andy Reid and Pedersen  run for their teams and combine it to make it the Bills play book ? 

 

Instead most of these guys are so stuck in their ways and Daboll only seems to call go routes. Not slants, not WR screens, nothing.

Exactly. The best NFL coaches (or coaches in any sport) learn and adapt on the fly. Most importantly they learn to put the success of the team before their stubbornness. I thought in the Minni game we might have had a breakthrough on this with Daboll, however the Packers game looked like a relapse back to the same stubborn game plan of forcing the square peg in the round hole that Daboll did in games 1 and 2 that resulted in garbage. I cannot believe how many mediocre coaches there are out there in this league, getting paid top dollar for uninventive and ineffective performance. 

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, Bills Fan in Beantown said:

This is a good breakdown of how Josh is not picking up the blitz: 

https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1047182491688341505

Amazing that we're going from, let's win games, to let's make sure he doesn't get killed out there. 

 

It is his single biggest failing so far. Blitzes are killing us because we can't work out who is coming. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Daboll threw Allen into the deep end of the pool. 

 

Then after he saw Allen flailing and splashing - nearly drowning - decided against throwing him a lifejacket and instead tossed an anchor on top of him which finished the job.

 

Giving Shady five total touches and allowing your raw rookie QB to drop back time after time against a Pettine defense with no adjustments is absolutely inexplicable.

[HeHateMe]

This is Brian "no success in the NFL" Daboll we're talking about here.  He was always a terrible hire.

[Bray Wyatt]

I believe if Daboll wanted to do this, then he would need to get out of the booth. People in the booth are not allowed access to the headset in the Qb's ear iirc, Daboll calls the play down to the sideline and then the guy calls the play in to Allen

[zow2]

Well, as Phil Simms has said,  if Josh does not make it in Buffalo it's not on him,  it's on the Bills organization and the failure to develop him properly.  

 

McVay is a genius.  Kirk Cousins credits McVay for his entire career development.   We have a buffoon here running the O.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Bills Fan in Beantown said:

This is a good breakdown of how Josh is not picking up the blitz: 

https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1047182491688341505

Amazing that we're going from, let's win games, to let's make sure he doesn't get killed out there. 

 

I'd just like to point out that below Orlovsky's tweet, there is disagreement with his breakdown from Kurt Warner.

Yes, that Kurt Warner, 3x superbowl, 2x 1st team all-pro QB Kurt Warner.

 

This is actually being discussed in the all-22 film thread and in another thread.

 

Of course I agree with you that if this keeps up, Allen will get killed out there and also develop bad habits of feeling phantom pressure and reverting to poor mechanics.

[Retselpais]

Lets face it. For the Buffalo Bills to hire Daboll , he must be a third rate coach. Nobody else wants him

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

I believe if Daboll wanted to do this, then he would need to get out of the booth. People in the booth are not allowed access to the headset in the Qb's ear iirc, Daboll calls the play down to the sideline and then the guy calls the play in to Allen

 

That used to be the rule, but apparently it changed in 2016  so the booth coach can now talk directly to the QB or the mic'd defender.

[Bray Wyatt]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That used to be the rule, but apparently it changed in 2016  so the booth coach can now talk directly to the QB or the mic'd defender.

 

Ok then yeah absolutely no reason not to be doing this

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I enjoy a good mind numbing from time to time. 

 

But yeah Daboll resume coming in wasn’t inspiring.  

 

Sure hope he figures it it out soon. Offense looks aweful. Just putrid 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Retselpais said:

Lets face it. For the Buffalo Bills to hire Daboll , he must be a third rate coach. Nobody else wants him

 

Here, I think, we have an example of BBBFS (Battered Buffalo Bill Fan Syndrome). 

The Bills did go to the playoffs last year with a winning record and what looked like a stout defense.

We looked as though we had a lot of pieces in place last year.

 

Daboll had a well-paid OC job at which he was still under contract and had just had Championship success and a promising young QB.

[Roundybout]

Guess we should fire Dabol too I guess. 

 

 

Wait, who ARENT we firing?

[DrDawkinstein]

Jesus H, give the guys a CHANCE.

 

Allen isnt Goff. He wasnt at Goff's level when they were drafted. He (rookie) isnt at Goff's level now (3rd year) or when McVay came in (2nd year).

 

The kid is going to flounder. He was always going to flounder this year as everyone knew he was a major project. These are just the early stages. It doesnt happen overnight.

 

R-E-L-A-X.

[ctk232]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'd just like to point out that below Orlovsky's tweet, there is disagreement with his breakdown from Kurt Warner.

Yes, that Kurt Warner, 3x superbowl, 2x 1st team all-pro QB Kurt Warner.

 

This is actually being discussed in the all-22 film thread and in another thread.

 

Of course I agree with you that if this keeps up, Allen will get killed out there and also develop bad habits of feeling phantom pressure and reverting to poor mechanics.

Biggest worry - we gave up valuable draft capital to draft this kid, who we all knew wasn't meant to start this season. He'll adapt as well as learn, and what he is adapting to right now is concerning.

 

But in reference to the quoted above, give the kid credit for playing in games with an incomplete excuse of an offense, who was never meant to start until the 2019 season. Allen has shown great instinct and reads at various points, most notably in the Minnesota game. He's learning and adapting now, but how he's coached through this initial year will very much affect his overall timeline to get to where we'd like to see him perform. We have 12 more games to see how this all plays out, we (likely) aren't making the playoffs this year so let's at least enjoy the ride and watch how this kid (and other young players) develop. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by ctk232

[BillsfanAZ]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That used to be the rule, but apparently it changed in 2016  so the booth coach can now talk directly to the QB or the mic'd defender.

 

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

I just dont get it. You have a raw QB who has problems with recognition, why wouldnt you get to the line so the D has to show their alignment and Daboll then has 10 or 12 seconds to talk through it with Allen? It did wonders for Goff. I mean he literally showed everyone how to do it with a young QB but nobody seems to follow suit.

 

This is just inexcusable. Its one thing to teach him after the play and on film. Its another thing to help him diagnose and make the right decisions on the field so he can see and feel what it looks like to do that in real time.

 

This is just bad coaching. He needs help, you have the ability to help him and you choose not to. Why? What justification could he possibly have for not doing this?  Why aren't the Buffalo media all over McDermott and Daboll for not doing this with Allen? He needs it badly. He looks lost whenever they blitz and doesnt read it.

The communication with the QB is cut when there are 15 seconds left on the play clock and whenever the ball is snapped. If the Bills can get to the line with 20 seconds to go then the OC can have 5 seconds to give his thoughts. 

[Big Turk]

27 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

 

The communication with the QB is cut when there are 15 seconds left on the play clock and whenever the ball is snapped. If the Bills can get to the line with 20 seconds to go then the OC can have 5 seconds to give his thoughts. 

5 seconds? Why not just get to the line immediately? Then he'd call the play and have 10 or 12 seconds.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

46 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Guess we should fire Dabol too I guess. 

 

 

Wait, who ARENT we firing?

 

..the Rockpile Beerman is safe..........for now.........

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

I just dont get it. You have a raw QB who has problems with recognition, why wouldnt you get to the line so the D has to show their alignment and Daboll then has 10 or 12 seconds to talk through it with Allen? It did wonders for Goff. I mean he literally showed everyone how to do it with a young QB but nobody seems to follow suit.

 

This is just inexcusable. Its one thing to teach him after the play and on film. Its another thing to help him diagnose and make the right decisions on the field so he can see and feel what it looks like to do that in real time.

 

This is just bad coaching. He needs help, you have the ability to help him and you choose not to. Why? What justification could he possibly have for not doing this?  Why aren't the Buffalo media all over McDermott and Daboll for not doing this with Allen? He needs it badly. He looks lost whenever they blitz and doesnt read it.

There is no one to help him.

No quality qb coach, Culley is a joke. No offensive minded HC. Josh has a OC who's bounced around all over. It was stupid and inexcusable to see how many 5-7 drop deep routes Daboll called last week. Right now your only objective with this kid is keep him alive and try to instill a little confidence with quick reads. Daboll is doing the opposite. 

[Jobot]

Unfortunately the defense will die if we go 3 and out as fast as you describe.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

I just dont get it. You have a raw QB who has problems with recognition, why wouldnt you get to the line so the D has to show their alignment and Daboll then has 10 or 12 seconds to talk through it with Allen? It did wonders for Goff. I mean he literally showed everyone how to do it with a young QB but nobody seems to follow suit.

 

This is just inexcusable. Its one thing to teach him after the play and on film. Its another thing to help him diagnose and make the right decisions on the field so he can see and feel what it looks like to do that in real time.

 

This is just bad coaching. He needs help, you have the ability to help him and you choose not to. Why? What justification could he possibly have for not doing this?  Why aren't the Buffalo media all over McDermott and Daboll for not doing this with Allen? He needs it badly. He looks lost whenever they blitz and doesnt read it.

I think most would argue that Goff was a better prospect. His going #1 overall was uncontroversial.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I think most would argue that Goff was a better prospect. His going #1 overall was uncontroversial.

Ok but how is that relevant? If anything that should make it MORE crucial he does this not less.

6 minutes ago, Jobot said:

Unfortunately the defense will die if we go 3 and out as fast as you describe.

What are you talking about? They dont run a hurry up to snap it, they run a hurry up to get to the line so the defense has to line up and Daboll could point out things to look at or his reads on the play.

 

The snap comes at the normal time when they do now.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Bills Fan in Beantown said:

This is a good breakdown of how Josh is not picking up the blitz: 

https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1047182491688341505

Amazing that we're going from, let's win games, to let's make sure he doesn't get killed out there. 

good back and forth with Kurt Warner in the comments too. Warner disagrees with Orlovsky's take.

6 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Ok but how is that relevant? If anything that should make it MORE crucial he does this not less.

 

I don't disagree; I'm just saying that one QB may be better than the other. I guess the larger point is whether our head coach is Jeff Fisher redux - a defensive guy incapable of fielding a creative offensive scheme because of conservative-approach-is-the-best-approach priors.

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ctk232 said:

Biggest worry - we gave up valuable draft capital to draft this kid, who we all knew wasn't meant to start this season. He'll adapt as well as learn, and what he is adapting to right now is concerning.

 

But in reference to the quoted above, give the kid credit for playing in games with an incomplete excuse of an offense, who was never meant to start until the 2019 season. Allen has shown great instinct and reads at various points, most notably in the Minnesota game. He's learning and adapting now, but how he's coached through this initial year will very much affect his overall timeline to get to where we'd like to see him perform. We have 12 more games to see how this all plays out, we (likely) aren't making the playoffs this year so let's at least enjoy the ride and watch how this kid (and other young players) develop. 

OK, but if we didn't, who'd be our starting QB? TT? Lamar Jackson (another rookie), Peterman? McMCarron? Not inspiring options....

[jrober38]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

Because  Daboll is incompetent ?  

 

Why doesn't Daboll just watch every play Mcvay ,  Andy Reid and Pedersen  run for their teams and combine it to make it the Bills play book ? 

 

Instead most of these guys are so stuck in their ways and Daboll only seems to call go routes. Not slants, not WR screens, nothing.

 

It's hard to call a quality NFL offense when you don't have good enough players at QB, WR, TE and the OL has protection issues. 

 

The Bills have arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL right now, the worst group of receivers in the league, next to nothing at Tight End, and an inconsistent OL that struggles to pass protect.

 

And people are blaming the Coordinator? 

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Guess we should fire Dabol too I guess. 

 

 

Wait, who ARENT we firing?

 

Stop hiring ****ty coaches and no one would ever have to be fired.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Um ... because he's Daboll?  A career mediocrity as a OC who has failed to develop any QB he has been associated with that I know of.  Just curious though: If BD gets fired, that will make two OC's in two years - is THAT part of THE PROCESS?

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

It's hard to call a quality NFL offense when you don't have good enough players at QB, WR, TE and the OL has protection issues. 

 

The Bills have arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL right now, the worst group of receivers in the league, next to nothing at Tight End, and an inconsistent OL that struggles to pass protect.

 

And people are blaming the Coordinator? 

 

Yes. As they should be.

 

Having poor personnel doesn’t make an OC immune from criticism over awful gameplans and play calling.

[Roundybout]

20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The Pegulas. While it is deserved, we obviously can't. 

 

San Diego Bills has a nice ring to it

[CaptnCoke11]

McVay knows offense.. Daboll not so much

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Yes. As they should be.

 

Having poor personnel doesn’t make an OC immune from criticism over awful gameplans and play calling.

 

I find it impossible to evaluate the play calling when you're not dealing with NFL calibre talent on offense.

 

We have an unprepared, over matched rookie QB, the worst collection of wide receivers in the NFL, a bunch of backup calibre tight ends, and a bottom 5 offensive line.

 

The cupboard on offense is completely bare. We need 8 or 9 new starters on offense next year. 

1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

McVay knows offense.. Daboll not so much

 

McVay is a great coach, but people seem to be ignoring that they're wide receivers are unbelievably good, they have arguably the best RB in the NFL, and a very good offensive line.

 

The Rams are stacked with quality offensive personnel.

[5 Wide]

If Allen wasn't meant to start this year, how can you insulate him with Nathan Peterman?  He of 5 first half INT last season?  I know McBean loves Petermans intelligence and work ethic, but if you're going to keep the raw rookie QB on the bench, I would have an experienced QB taking the snaps while also trickling down some vet knowledge to the kid.  Instead, Josh Allen is now the guy in the QB room with the most NFL starting QB experience (including the coaches).

Edited October 3, 2018 by 5 Wide

[Nihilarian]

It really is mind numbing that Daboll is this lame. He keeps trying to run a deep, quick strike passing offense with a rookie QB that can't yet read coverages.  Allen needs help in reading that defensive front from the experienced linemen, center. The entire offense should be coached up to take on a rusher if they see someone unblocked. Line, receivers, RB's.

 

Then, there really is no reason as to why this offense isn't utilizing their best player on offense in McCoy. He is one of the very best RBs in the league and one of the very best receivers and without question he is the Bills best receiver too.

 

Shady McCoy should be seeing 25-30 touches a game regardless of the score.

 

If this Imbecile Daboll can't get this offense working by week 8 the Bears game he should be fired and replaced by senior OC and current receivers coach Terry Robiskie.  If I were McD I wouldn't wait that long because Allen might be brain dead by then, two more games against the Titans, Texans and if this offense isn't giving LeSean McCoy 25 touches per then FIRE the Daboob! 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Nihilarian

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Jesus H, give the guys a CHANCE.

 

Allen isnt Goff. He wasnt at Goff's level when they were drafted. He (rookie) isnt at Goff's level now (3rd year) or when McVay came in (2nd year).

 

The kid is going to flounder. He was always going to flounder this year as everyone knew he was a major project. These are just the early stages. It doesnt happen overnight.

 

R-E-L-A-X.

Did ppl think there were not going to be growing pains starting a rookie QB that everyone knew needed to hold a clipboard for a year?

 

He is on the Trubisky path now....he is gonna flop around a little bit while he learns....his support system is absolute crap......the team CANT RUN THE BALL to take pressure off of him......

 

See the situation for what it is and stop blaming Josh Allen because he isnt willing the team to win in his first year

 

Christ

[Wayne Arnold]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I find it impossible to evaluate the play calling when you're not dealing with NFL calibre talent on offense.

 

Shady was given five touches and they put a goose egg on the scoreboard.

 

If you find it impossible to evaluate play calling in light of those two simple facts, then I don’t know how to help you.