Owners with Conservative/Defensive Minded Coaches have some SOUL SEARCHING to do.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

 

what went down in LA tonight is what fans of all 32 teams deserve as much as possible.  On a weekley basis if possible.

 

there is too much competition former attention with streaming services, tickets are expensive and game day experience is blah with all the drunks.

 

You want to keep us?  Give us 54-51.  Give us nearly 1000 yards passing and 11 Tds from the QBs.  Give us the razzle dazzle 

 

I know we are keeping our Defensive Guy so its pointless to say it and I like McDermott and maybe we get the Defensive Coach who lands a Franchise QB 50/50

 

but to the fans of Jets, Browns, Ravens and Arizona...don’t let your owners either speak to anyone on defense.

 

Offense now.  Offense forever!

 

[leonbus23]

[John from Riverside]

Wentz is thriving?

[Bing Bong]

DEFENSE IS HALF THE GAME. Just because you saw a MNF shootout doesn't mean a more balanced team is better AT HALF THE GAME than the other. The better defensive teams always make the runs in the playoffs.. that's why the NFC is loaded right now they have offensive juggernauts with good running, passing, and defense to boot.

 

I mean we don't have to be dog**** on offense absolutely that kills us. But the teams that are dog**** on defense ain't gonna win either.

Edited November 20, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Big Blitz]

Pat Schurmer (who replaced a 'brilliant' OC)

Adam Gase

Doug Pederson (great year 1; not good right now)

Dirk Koetter 

Kyle Shanahan (looks like QB is more important than HC?)

Jay Gruden 

Jason Garrett 

McCarthy 

Nagy---dont be fooled; they're where they are bc of that D.  It's a good O.  But really how good?  

 

 

That's 8 very men coaches---plus Pederson but he has been brutal this season.  And yes McCarthy is meh.  

 

The elite OCs are going to go where there is the most talent.  So it's too easy to say "get the O minded guy for HC."   They flop too.

 

You don't have to have an offensive minded HC (they're more likely to flop as much as the DCs) but you absolutely better have a good OC and staff.  If you have the elite QB ready it shouldn't matter.  I'm pretty sure the Packers will be open to a D minded coach.  

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Big Blitz

[Warcodered]

Didn't the team with the better defense win?

[GunnerBill]

On 10/2/2018 at 7:57 PM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

Kyle Shanahan?  Was that closest we got to a young Offensive mind?  That was what before Gailey or Marrone was hired?

 

Before Rex. The Pegulas hated him by the way. He was their least favourite candidate of the 9 they interviewed. Hence even when he was THE hot name 2 years later they had no interest in interviewing him again. 

[Alphadawg7]

Wow, people still throwing this false narrative around?  A great coach is a great coach, doesn’t matter if he came from offensive or defensive background.

 

Two highest scoring offenses in NFL history led by defensive head coaches and neither team won the SB.  Patriots set the record and lost undefeated season to Giants where their offense was shut down.  Manning breaks record in 2013 and gets BLOWN out in SB.

 

Furthermore:  Top 5 NFL scoring offenses in NFL history:  0 Super Wins. 

 

14 of last 20 SBs won by defensive head coaches.

 

There are many ways to win the SB, but this notion it’s only with a high octane offense or offensive HC is completely false.  

 

.  

Edited November 20, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Big Blitz]

Tomlin 

BB

Rivera (all he does is win)

Lewis (several playoff trips with Andy Dalton)

Pete Carroll 

Dan Quinn

 

They all had good OCs to develop the QB or inherited good QBs.

 

3 of these guys have won Super Bowls.  

And the list of "new hotness" we'd all love:

 

McVay

Shannahan

Nagy? 

 

I'm not going to include Payton bc hes not new and he might have thr best QB and GM in football.  And with that QB...one of the best ever, they had hardly made the playoffs until last year since that 2010 SB.

 

But anyway, it's not a long list.  I'm not arguing an offensive guy as HC isnt preferable.  Its just not as simple as "just get one."  They are just as likely to bust.  

 

Get the QB settled.  And surround with good offensive coaches----those guys are out there.  I fear some HCs that are defensive minded might be a little threatened by them.  I don't know what McD has here with Dabol.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Big Blitz

[Bing Bong]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Wow, people still throwing this false narrative around?  A great coach is a great coach, doesn’t matter if he came from offensive or defensive background.

 

Two highest scoring offenses in NFL history led by defensive head coaches and neither team won the SB.  Patriots set the record and lost undefeated season to Giants where their offense was shut down.  Manning breaks record in 2013 and gets BLOWN out in SB.

 

Furthermore:  Top 5 NFL scoring offenses in NFL history:  0 Super Wins. 

 

14 of last 20 SBs won by defensive head coaches.

 

There are many ways to win the SB, but this notion it’s only with a high octane offense or offensive HC is completely false.  

 

.  

Defense wins championships. But dog**** offenses go 4-12

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Defense wins championships. But dog**** offenses go 4-12

 

Agreed...certainly not saying a crap offense is the way to go, but so far the best offenses in history have yet to win a Super Bowl.  Defense matters in playoffs, just ask Manning who set an NFL record for being “one and done” 9 times in Indy with all those high powered offenses.  

[John from Riverside]

22 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Defense wins championships. But dog**** offenses go 4-12

Balance is what wins championships.......

 

If we can fix our offense next year we will have that

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Balance is what wins championships.......

 

If we can fix our offense next year we will have that

Yep.. we got a long way to go on the offensive side to be balanced. I think we are one step behind a team like the Bears, a young roster that looks like it will only get better for the years.

 

But it ain't easy getting that balance at the best possible level.

[row_33]

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Balance is what wins championships.......

 

If we can fix our offense next year we will have that

 

Balance with 1151 yards total in last years Super Bowl and a 54-51 score in the 2018 regular season game of the year

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yawn.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 10/2/2018 at 2:53 PM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

 

 

Nnnnnnnnnope

[twoandfourteen]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

Balance with 1151 yards total in last years Super Bowl and a 54-51 score in the 2018 regular season game of the year

 

 

 

The "Get Off My Lawn/Field Position" crowd around here are unable to see that the train has already left the station. 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Don't have to be either O or D oriented to be a good HC as many have pointed out.  Just need a good OC.  Marv had Ted.

 

 

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

 

Nnnnnnnnnope

I love this narrative about the Eagles. They were a top 15 offense the four years (top 4 in two of those years) before Pederson took over. The primary difference in that team last year was the defense going from 30th to 4th in two years. Yes, their offense was great in the Super Bowl; however, they would not have gotten there without the defense playing at the level they played last year.

 

Also, I asked this question in another thread for the people praising Pederson and wanting McDermott fired for turning a "playoff team" into a 3-7 team this year: Is Pederson the genius offensive mind that took his team to the Super Bowl, or should he be fired and run out of town for turning a Super Bowl team into a 4-6 team that is struggling offensively and defensively - and the team that was an absolute embarrassment on the field this last week? Got no answer.

Edited November 20, 2018 by billsfan1959

[uticaclub]

When your two best QB performances in the last 5 years are from Kyle Orton & Matt Barkley, doesn’t matter how good the D is. 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, uticaclub said:

When your two best QB performances in the last 5 years are from Kyle Orton & Matt Barkley, doesn’t matter how good the D is. 

Don't worry my friend, we have Matt Barkley now. He's never really had a chance, in six years with four different teams, to show what he can do. It's a good thing we picked him up off the street before the Patriots got a chance to bring him in to succeed Brady.....

[GimmeSomeProcess]

McDermott has stated numerous times you can’t win 9 to 7 in today’s NFL. They understand this but it also means you can still and try to stop them. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I love this narrative about the Eagles. They were a top 15 offense the four years (top 4 in two of those years) before Pederson took over. The primary difference in that team last year was the defense going from 30th to 4th in two years. Yes, their offense was great in the Super Bowl; however, they would not have gotten there without the defense playing at the level they played last year.

 

Also, I asked this question in another thread for the people praising Pederson and wanting McDermott fired for turning a "playoff team" into a 3-7 team this year: Is Pederson the genius offensive mind that took his team to the Super Bowl, or should he be fired and run out of town for turning a Super Bowl team into a 4-6 team that is struggling offensively and defensively - and the team that was an absolute embarrassment on the field this last week? Got no answer.

You're on to something here.  How many of these offensive geniuses are doing it without a competent QB, a solid offensive line, and a group of good to great RB/WR/TE's?  Which of these offensive guys would turn the current Bills offensive roster into a 34 point a game offensive machine?  And take last night's KC/LA game for example.  You transport the Chiefs or Rams offense onto the Bills roster without the offensive genius coach and all of a sudden those offenses won't be able to score because McDermott is their head coach?  The genius needs to be the guy finding and getting the players.   

[Big Turk]

Football goes in cycles. Or do you only look at short term trends instead of long term ones?

[corta765]

Dabol seems pretty progressive scheme wise with what he wants the Jets game and Vikings show what he can do with any form of talent. I am willing to give him that opportunity to prove himself the next year or so which if it works credits McD.

 

BUT... yea the league is soo offensively driven the D/conservative guys better be ready to adjust and I would hire an offensive type guy if I was an owner.

[oldmanfan]

Five years from now innovative defensive minds will have figured out they need to have 11 guys that can cover and blitz from any spot on the field.  The large defensive linemen who anchor will be relics.  Guys like Milano and Edmunds will be worth their weight in gold.  And then offenses will have to figure out how to adjust.  Probably by going back to pounding the ball.

[Simon Says]

On 10/2/2018 at 3:14 PM, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

They need to bring in Ken Dorsey. Get rid of the current QB coach. Let Dorsey soak in this system and if Daboll doesn’t pan out Dorsey can make it his own.

 

Sounds like a solid plan. i dont expect wholesale changes,,perhaps a new QB coach, maybe O-Line coach. Beane and McDermott will get at least the 2019 season, to show what they can do with the draft and salary resources coming available

[Bing Bong]

24 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Five years from now innovative defensive minds will have figured out they need to have 11 guys that can cover and blitz from any spot on the field.  The large defensive linemen who anchor will be relics.  Guys like Milano and Edmunds will be worth their weight in gold.  And then offenses will have to figure out how to adjust.  Probably by going back to pounding the ball.

We have a great secondary, something the SB teams, and the MNF teams lacked. 

 

Jags had a great secondary last year and made waves with a poor quarterback. Secondaries can stop these teams. We saw it against the Patriots. One thing I can't fault McDermott for is his prowess there and I think that's clearly an important group to maintain and invest in.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I love this narrative about the Eagles. They were a top 15 offense the four years (top 4 in two of those years) before Pederson took over. The primary difference in that team last year was the defense going from 30th to 4th in two years. Yes, their offense was great in the Super Bowl; however, they would not have gotten there without the defense playing at the level they played last year.

 

Also, I asked this question in another thread for the people praising Pederson and wanting McDermott fired for turning a "playoff team" into a 3-7 team this year: Is Pederson the genius offensive mind that took his team to the Super Bowl, or should he be fired and run out of town for turning a Super Bowl team into a 4-6 team that is struggling offensively and defensively - and the team that was an absolute embarrassment on the field this last week? Got no answer.

 

Probably got no answer because the question is phrased very confusingly. You've created a false choice.

 

But it's pretty simple, Super Bowl win > scoring 3 pts in wildcard and 1 embarassing game against a top team > I have lost count of embarassing games McDermott has presided over (against some bad teams at that)

Edited November 20, 2018 by Chemical

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Chemical said:

 

Probably got no answer because the question is phrased very confusingly. You've created a false choice.

 

But it's pretty simple, Super Bowl win > scoring 3 pts in wildcard and 1 embarassing game against a top team > I have lost count of embarassing games McDermott has presided over (against some bad teams at that)

Not that confusing, nor is it a false choice. It also was not about whether a Super Bowl win was better than a Wild Card loss. Most of us understand that - but, thank you for pointing out the obvious.

 

The point was that I have heard over and over about how McDermott should be fired for taking a “playoff” team and turning it into a 3-7 team with some embarrassing losses. I have also heard from those same posters how Pederson is a shining example of what we need. Well, Pederson has taken a Super Bowl winning team and turned it into a 4-6 team with some embarrassing losses - like the one this past week. Some might argue Pederson’s failure this year might be more egregious due to the superior talent he has to work with. Just looking for a little consistency...

Edited November 20, 2018 by billsfan1959

[BillsFan2313]

On 10/2/2018 at 3:32 PM, Haze_21 said:

1 game against a terrible pass d does not give trubisky thriving status.

 

1524 yards, 12 tds and a 4-2 record since the "1 game against a terrible pass d"

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

We just have to be patient. 

 

Bowles will likely be fired at the end of this season so the Jets will be a year ahead of us in switching to an offensive head coach. Hopefully they get a dud. 

 

McDermott will eventually be fired by not this off-season. But probably by the end of next season.

[MJS]

Well, the Eagles are struggling mightily, so there you go.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

Well, the Eagles are struggling mightily, so there you go.

They just won a super bowl with a QB having an MVP caliber season and a back up QB winning the super bowl MVP. I think they get a pass this year.

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, Chemical said:

 

Probably got no answer because the question is phrased very confusingly. You've created a false choice.

 

But it's pretty simple, Super Bowl win > scoring 3 pts in wildcard and 1 embarassing game against a top team > I have lost count of embarassing games McDermott has presided over (against some bad teams at that)

Lol. We weren't even close to good as the Eagles last year or this year. I'd friggin love to have a Superbowl hangover team some day.

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

They just won a super bowl with a QB having an MVP caliber season and a back up QB winning the super bowl MVP. I think they get a pass this year.

 

Nobody gets a pass. If you think anyone is going to give the Eagles the benefit of the doubt if they miss the playoffs this year, you're wrong. The fans and the entire NFL were expecting them to be Superbowl contenders.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, MJS said:

 

Nobody gets a pass. If you think anyone is going to give the Eagles the benefit of the doubt if they miss the playoffs this year, you're wrong. The fans and the entire NFL were expecting them to be Superbowl contenders.

 

So is Pederson on the hot seat or does he get a pass? 

[billspro]

On 10/2/2018 at 11:53 AM, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Eagles invested heavily in Trading up for Carson Wentz.  Spent that off season building and Offensive Coaching Room...Wentz now thriving.

 

Los Angeles Rams invested 1st Overall Pick in Jared Goff.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (Jeff Fisher).  Brought in young Offensive guy in Sean McVay...Goff now thriving.

 

Chicago Bears invested heavily in trading up for Mitch Trubisky.  Shortly after fired their Defensive Minded Head Coach (John Fox).  Brought in Offensive Guy in Matt Nagy...Trubisky now thriving.

 

 

Buffalo Bills and New York Jets invested heavily in trading up for Josh Allen and Sam Darnold.  And they will do what with their DEFENSIVE MINDED HEAD COACHES after their Young QBs struggle in 2018???

 

I definitely like that philosophy. Saying that, if Daboll continues to call good games down the stretch Allen will be fine. We definitely need good coaching on the offensive side of the ball.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

So is Pederson on the hot seat or does he get a pass? 

 

Neither. If they miss the playoffs they'll have to go back to the drawing board and identify what the problems are.

 

And, BTW, McDermott is also not on the hot seat, like many fans want. McDermott's job, at this time, is just as safe as Pederson's.

 

But neither coach gets a "pass". They have to help their teams improve.

[Haze_21]

1 hour ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

1524 yards, 12 tds and a 4-2 record since the "1 game against a terrible pass d"

He is playing much better. i still think he is a limited qb but he is in a great system and can use his legs to open things up.