Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bangarang said: And circle gets the square. Groomed by Andy Reid in an offense with loads of talent. Or groomed by a WR coach in an offense with no talent. That only gets you so far. If your comparison is the determining factor on if a QB is good or not, the Bills may never have a good one. When was the last time the Bills had an offensive guru and a QB whisperer on staff ? I guess it doesn’t matter which player they draft, they don’t have the staff to make them into the great players they could be. If only.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Klaista2k said: Someone needs to be held accountable for this. If it was McDermott and Beane's decision get their asses the hell out of Buffalo. They don't deserve to be running the team anymore. Maybe this will help you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, BBills88 said: I believe they go hand in hand. The QB is far more important. He can’t do it alone, but the talent and skill will be obvious. If he has franchise QB ability, he will raise the level of those around him. Mahomes is very good already, might even be great. He’d be good in Buffalo too. Look what he does on the move. No air mailed passes. They’re on target. He played one game last year, this is essentially his rookie campaign with more film prep and an extra training camp. If that’s enough to make chicken salad out of chicken poop, every team would be doing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I don't get this argument. Andy Reid put those pieces together and ensured Mahomes sat behind Smith (one of the league's best game mgrs). it was brilliant, and their records reflects that. McD and staff rid themselves of both Watkins, Woods, and any competent vet QB. They're on OC number 2, and have suffered deafening losses. these excuses need to stop. the Bills are working backwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I rest my case. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/02/von-miller-patrick-mahomes-is-a-great-quarterback/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, 87168 said: I don't get this argument. Andy Reid put those pieces together and ensured Mahomes sat behind Smith (one of the league's best game mgrs). it was brilliant, and their records reflects that. McD and staff rid themselves of both Watkins, Woods, and any competent vet QB. They're on OC number 2, and have suffered deafening losses. these excuses need to stop. the Bills are working backwards. Thats kind of the point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 If Mahomes had started last year, he would be just as good right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: That only gets you so far. If your comparison is the determining factor on if a QB is good or not, the Bills may never have a good one. When was the last time the Bills had an offensive guru and a QB whisperer on staff ? I guess it doesn’t matter which player they draft, they don’t have the staff to make them into the great players they could be. If only.... ...Marchibroda....RIP................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: #1 Mahomes was able to sit behind a vet and just watch for a year. (Something I still think we should trade for and do) #2 KC has an incredible supporting cast #3 No one on this earth had any clue Mahomes would be good other then KC fans and there crystal ball and management hoping so. #4 I truly think the person that is really screwing with our current QB is our OC. Example.. 3rd and 4 and 3 out of the 4 receivers out on a rout go deep. Tell me why? Another example, constantly running McCoy up the middle in a bad line. Pitch it to him.. do something different. #5 our supporting cast is near worst in league right now. Fans are BITTER! could of had.. would have.. and its because our rookie is looking bad right now. Fans you want to be ticked off? BE ticked off at these things.. #1 Why didn't they work harder fixing this OL in FA, Draft. when your a team in a draft its normally BPA. But when your have a team that is in bad shape like this O'Line you don't just do very little about it and hope backups will hold up. #2 How come they didn't work harder getting better, faster receivers in here? #3 How come they didn't see how bad Peterman really is? Why not junk him now for a vet and let Josh Allen learn and play? those are the things fans should be ticked off about... You build an Line at same time you get your QB. When you get your what you think is a Franchise QB.. That line at the very least is strong.. I mean seriously? how many times are we going to see the left or right guard help pinch on a DT for no reason what so ever and watch a LB run right around him? be ticked off at these things. Wrong me Billsareback and Jeffsmagic did we called our shots and said he was hall of fame material and once in a generation QB and would lead the chiefs to multiple superbowls. We both started threads about this during the draft process and we were ridiculed and ran off the boards. Jeff quit over it. I Love josh allen but mahomes is better. So please just stop there were a few of us on these boards that warned you all and all you did was ridiculed us and made fun of us. Step up and take your medicine Nay sayers. What will you say this week when he goes into Jacksonville and destroys them. What he does can not be taught He is a once and a life time talent. The chiefs said that right after drafting him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 46 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Nature or nurture ? That is the question. I’ll say it’s the former, and while Mahomes has a lot around him he still must be given credit. Watch what he does when pressured, look at his accuracy. He has great instincts. While he might not have the same exact results in Buffalo, the talent would still be obvious. He sat and waited in KC, but while probably beneficial it was not likely a transformative experience. Simply put, you’re either good or you’re not. The Bills organizational ineptness led to this. That's your opinion. That Mahomes transcends his surroundings. I think Mahomes would look like what Allen has looked like if he were in this situation. There's a reason there are 10 other players on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Maybe if they drafted Mahomes or Watson last season, they could have spent this off season and draft building around one of them and we would be a year in to this "build" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsatlastin2018 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 If there was only ONE great choice on the board, my expectation is that OBD will punt it... for a touchback... from the 32 yard line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 42 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said: To be clear it is largely McBeane’s doing. They gutted the roster, they traded away multiple picks on a rebuilding team. People act like these guys inherited this team and draft board. Even if you believe it is part of “the process,” they created this mess. I never said they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Actually, someone needs to be fired over the fact that in the history of the modern NFL, it’s unlikely that any team has fielded a team so entirely devoid of offensive weapons. It’s almost impossible to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Okay, Sal. But what were you saying in April 2017? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, 87168 said: I don't get this argument. Andy Reid put those pieces together and ensured Mahomes sat behind Smith (one of the league's best game mgrs). it was brilliant, and their records reflects that. McD and staff rid themselves of both Watkins, Woods, and any competent vet QB. They're on OC number 2, and have suffered deafening losses. these excuses need to stop. the Bills are working backwards. And how long has Andy Reid been with KC versus how long McDermott has been here? Beane wasn't here to run the 2017 draft. Whaley and his crew were here. They were not going to let a lame duck GM choose the QB. McDermott wasn't ready to select his QB of the future. I think he wanted to wait for Beane and evaluate the team together to see what they had to build from...knowing that this year's class was going to have a number of QB's with first round grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills88 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The QB is far more important. He can’t do it alone, but the talent and skill will be obvious. If he has franchise QB ability, he will raise the level of those around him. Mahomes is very good already, might even be great. He’d be good in Buffalo too. Look what he does on the move. No air mailed passes. They’re on target. He played one game last year, this is essentially his rookie campaign with more film prep and an extra training camp. If that’s enough to make chicken salad out of chicken poop, every team would be doing it. Nobody had Patrick Mahomes going in the 1st round 2017 draft. He landed in a better situation than Josh Allen in regards to coaching and skill players around him. Josh Allen has the physical tools and smarts to be a good QB. Andy Reid is one of the best QB developers in the game (Farve, Kolb, Foles, McNabb, Alex Smith) all had great seasons under Andy Reid. So I would not expect anything but goodness from Mahomes. Josh Allen will get there, his road to the top is different. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: Okay, Sal. But what were you saying in April 2017? That’s a good catch, but the bottom line is that Sal is not a scout or GM for the Bills. It doesn’t change the fact that there was a major fail that took place in last year’s draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, mannc said: That’s a good catch, but the bottom line is that Sal is not a scout or GM for the Bills. It doesn’t change the fact that there was a major fail that took place in last year’s draft. Sure, but doesn't it kill you to see writers who do a 180 when trying to bash a team for it's decisions? If it was so obvious why didn't Maiorana stump for Mahomes? Edited October 2, 2018 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBills88 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: Sure, but doesn't it kill you to see writers who do a 180 when trying to bash a team for it's decisions? Us as fans also, how many people wanted Mahomes or knew about him. to draft him at 10 in the 2017 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookieG Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, 87168 said: I don't get this argument. Andy Reid put those pieces together and ensured Mahomes sat behind Smith (one of the league's best game mgrs). it was brilliant, and their records reflects that. McD and staff rid themselves of both Watkins, Woods, and any competent vet QB. They're on OC number 2, and have suffered deafening losses. these excuses need to stop. the Bills are working backwards. mmhmm The year before the process began, the Bills O actually outscored the Chiefs' offense (with all of those weapons) and by a pretty significant margin... offensive TD's (after subtracting defensive and ST TD's) 2016 Bills 46 2016 Chiefs 34 There was an offense available at the time for Mahomes to fit into. They CHOSE to dismantle it. Its on the Process. They bought this offense, its up to them to answer for it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, BBills88 said: Us as fans also, how many people wanted Mahomes or knew about him. to draft him at 10 in the 2017 draft. Fans want to draft every player. They remember the ones that hit and forget the duds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 29 minutes ago, 87168 said: I don't get this argument. Andy Reid put those pieces together and ensured Mahomes sat behind Smith (one of the league's best game mgrs). it was brilliant, and their records reflects that. McD and staff rid themselves of both Watkins, Woods, and any competent vet QB. They're on OC number 2, and have suffered deafening losses. these excuses need to stop. the Bills are working backwards. Not enough rage. Wouldn't recommend. 3/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Early returns are that Mahomes is really talented and better than what the Bills have. So be it, this debate is not settled but only beginning. Mahomes is good now, has been developed, and through 4 (!) games is in a better spot career wise. He will have his ups and downs as coaches get more film on him. The real issue is McCoach and Beane have prioritized defense above offense in an era where the latter wins games and you just need enough of the former. Next off-season, they'll need to significantly upgrade the offense and it won't be easy. Their strategy is still open for debate and not settled, as is Mahomes' and Allen's NFL careers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevo Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 These threads are dynamite...the proclamation of the next great qb...was hearing the same thing about bob griffin and the kneeler....Mahomes has looked awesome but my goodness let’s slow that roll.....4 games....let him do it over 4 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I thought Mahomes was going to be a project coming out of Texas Tech and didnt want the Bills to take him. Thought Watson was the much better quarterback. In saying that, no other quarterback reminded me more of Mahomes in this years class than Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Watson is ramping things up in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: That's your opinion. That Mahomes transcends his surroundings. I think Mahomes would look like what Allen has looked like if he were in this situation. There's a reason there are 10 other players on the field. The facts do not support your belief. The eye in the sky doesn’t lie. While no one would choose the Bills talent over that of the Chiefs, take a look at the all 22. There are open WRs ( they may drop accurate passes at a high rate) , the QB often has time but takes unnecessary sacks. JA also looks confused, lacks instincts and places passes all over the place whether on the run or stationary. To think that a player such as Mahomes would suddenly lose his abilities due to the players around him is folly. He would not be experiencing the same team success perhaps, but he’d still be a mobile, instinctive player with accuracy and arm strength. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: I thought Mahomes was going to be a project coming out of Texas Tech and didnt want the Bills to take him. Thought Watson was the much better quarterback. In saying that, no other quarterback reminded me more of Mahomes in this years class than Allen. i think that how the majority of fans saw it by far, at least from what i can remember. it's amazing how many posters suddenly were so sure they wanted him in the first place. i'll give the chiefs and mahomes credit though...it's being done the right way there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, Boatdrinks said: The facts do not support your belief. The eye in the sky doesn’t lie. While no one would choose the Bills talent over that of the Chiefs, take a look at the all 22. There are open WRs ( they may drop accurate passes at a high rate) , the QB often has time but takes unnecessary sacks. JA also looks confused, lacks instincts and places passes all over the place whether on the run or stationary. To think that a player such as Mahomes would suddenly lose his abilities due to the players around him is folly. He would not be experiencing the same team success perhaps, but he’d still be a mobile, instinctive player with accuracy and arm strength. I didn't know the All-22 for the Packers game was released already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: I agree with this, but one thing I think getting left out here is how the Pegulas said that it made more sense to have the FO turn over after the draft rather than January. They praised themselves for it, and I remember seeing crap articles saying how they were redefining the NFL hiring calendar. That was all going on while the national media were like "the !@#$ you guys doing up there?", and scratching their heads. Everyone blew off the national media around here, and guess what, this year, any team making a GM change and turning over the FO did it in January. It was another stupid decision by the pegulas and another sign that they are totally inept owners. I'm not blaming McDermott on this one, it's the clowns that own the team. I'm becoming very frustrated with their arrogance and incompetence. Agreed. The whole lame-duck Whaley thing was stupid. He should have been fired 15 minutes after the 2016 season ended. I don't blame McD either. You can't realistically expect a first time HC to put his team all in on a QB before the GM is even hired. What if the GM shows up and says he hated the pick? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, BBills88 said: Us as fans also, how many people wanted Mahomes or knew about him. to draft him at 10 in the 2017 draft. I liked him but was not upset that we didn't draft him. OTOH I remember some posters loved him and for the right reasons if memory serves. Those guys deserve some credit for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeby Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 12 hours ago, Klaista2k said: you sound like a typical troll that just supports whatever the team does. You sound like the typical bills fan who just complains instantly and is the reason why we never get nice things. Had Peyton manning started here in his first season against the four teams we just played and with this offense you would tarred and feathered him out of town. Try decafe or may an herbal tea tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: I thought Mahomes was going to be a project coming out of Texas Tech and didnt want the Bills to take him. Thought Watson was the much better quarterback. In saying that, no other quarterback reminded me more of Mahomes in this years class than Allen. I wanted the Bills to select Watson over Mahomes, but not taking a QB when one was desperately needed was an egregious error. That they passed on both players due to functional ineptness with a lame duck GM in place is horrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Just now, BillsVet said: Early returns are that Mahomes is really talented and better than what the Bills have. So be it, this debate is not settled but only beginning. Mahomes is good now, has been developed, and through 4 (!) games is in a better spot career wise. He will have his ups and downs as coaches get more film on him. The real issue is McCoach and Beane have prioritized defense above offense in an era where the latter wins games and you just need enough of the former. Next off-season, they'll need to significantly upgrade the offense and it won't be easy. Their strategy is still open for debate and not settled, as is Mahomes' and Allen's NFL careers. This a million times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I didn't know the All-22 for the Packers game was released already. It was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Thank God. It's been two days since I heard any bitching about Mahomes. I was going in to withdrawal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Thank God. It's been two days since I heard any bitching about Mahomes. I was going in to withdrawal. We're way overdue for a Whitner over Ngata thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The facts do not support your belief. The eye in the sky doesn’t lie. While no one would choose the Bills talent over that of the Chiefs, take a look at the all 22. There are open WRs ( they may drop accurate passes at a high rate) , the QB often has time but takes unnecessary sacks. JA also looks confused, lacks instincts and places passes all over the place whether on the run or stationary. To think that a player such as Mahomes would suddenly lose his abilities due to the players around him is folly. He would not be experiencing the same team success perhaps, but he’d still be a mobile, instinctive player with accuracy and arm strength. Wait, so a rookie QB in his 3rd game on the road at Lambeau looking confused now condemns his career? Let’s all take a chill pill, Allen’s ceiling is through the roof, and he’s playing on a terrible roster. Steve Young (a guy Allen reminds me of with his big arm and ability to make plays with his legs) was terrible on an awful expansion Bucs team. Goes to SF and plays so well the 49ers traded the GOAT Montana before he was done to get Young on the field and he became one of the all time great QBs on that talented roster. Im puzzled by the over reaction from the expected ups and downs of a rookie QB on the least talented offense in the entire NFL 3 starts into his career. Especially since Allen is smart and tough and will learn from these mistakes. Edited October 2, 2018 by Alphadawg7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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