FIRE Daboll ASAP

[jahbonas]

Do we know if Josh Allen is allowed to audible/change a play at the  Line of scrimmage??

[Soda Popinski]

my goodness the knee jerk reactions..

[PlayoffsPlease]

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What if they are not trying to save their season?

 

What if we are rebiulding and going 8-8 doesnt really help us this year?

 

Hmmmmmm

what is the "re" in rebuilding.   That implies something was built before.  I think people need to look at the Bills like an expansion team, starting from scratch. 

4 minutes ago, Bandito said:

Having a D minded HC is so outdated. Look at McVay in  LA, Reid in KC,  Nagy in Chi among others. McD just isn't a quality HC in the league.

I am not sure McDermott has what it takes to be an NFL head coach.  I think a creative OC would be helpful. 

[apuszczalowski]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No, Roman wasn't fired after only two games. He was fired after eighteen games, two games into his second season.

 

By a horrible head coach desperate to draw attention away from his own poor performance. Suggesting anyone do something because it's already been done by Rex Ryan while he was in charge of the Bills is not really a winning argument.

Why would you not want to go and do things that Rex Ryan did in the past? He was such a success that I dont know why more people wouldn't be copying his every coaching move in his career.....  

[Epstein's Mother]

I don't think that firing Daboll is going to fix all the offensive problems but he sure isn't doing Allen any favors by constantly calling slow developing 5 and 7 step drop pass plays.  He leaves Allen waiting for receivers to get open and as we all have seen these guys are having difficulty creating separation.

 

Have any of you seen the play calling Matt Nagy is doing in Chicago?  That's what an innovative modern offense looks like in the NFL.

[DefenseWins]

The reason the Bills lost is obvious... It's the fault of that guy who didn't bet $5000 against the Bills this week.

[Not at the table Karlos]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

If the Bills want to save the season/help Allen progress then something has to be done. I know they need continuity, but it's best to nip it in the bud and do it NOW instead of waiting until the end of the year where Daboll will inevitably be gone. There is no way Josh is going to blossom when there is no running game being established and he is getting sacked 7 times a game. I mean  they're down 16 points early in the 4th and the Bills were in need of 4 yards on third down and what does the genius Daboll call? A long developing pass play where the every WR are running 20-30 yards down the field and not giving Allen a decent check down option. Our line is TERRIBLE ! what the hell was that?? Why is he not playing to our only strength and running it? It was happening all game long, 5 wide sets and expecting miracles. I'm not going to act like I'm some offensive coordinator, but I can see that this is not working and I can see (we all can see) that Daboll is in way over his head The 1-31 Browns are scoring points this year with a rookie QB and that's because Mayfield is given easy plays and a running game. Allen was at fault, but he's not being set up to win. 

Was this the play before we got them to jump offsides on the punt but declined the penalty that should have gave us a first down. I thought we lost yArds but my buddy says it was still 4th and 4. 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Not at the table Karlos

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

Why would you not want to go and do things that Rex Ryan did in the past? He was such a success that I dont know why more people wouldn't be copying his every coaching move in his career.....  

 

He has a heck of a lot more success than McDermott ever had. I mean you have to give him that at least

17 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Was this the play before we got them to jump offsides on the punt but declined the penalty that should have gave us a first down. I thought we lost yArds but my buddy says it was still 4th and 4. 

 

Yeah, that was really bizarre. 

1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said:

I don't think that firing Daboll is going to fix all the offensive problems but he sure isn't doing Allen any favors by constantly calling slow developing 5 and 7 step drop pass plays.  He leaves Allen waiting for receivers to get open and as we all have seen these guys are having difficulty creating separation.

 

Have any of you seen the play calling Matt Nagy is doing in Chicago?  That's what an innovative modern offense looks like in the NFL.

 

That's what I'm saying. I think it would help in the long run, but I guess at this point either fire him or keep him the rest of the year. It's still early enough to turn things around

[Roundybout]

3 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

I agree. I was puzzled by the Daboll hire myself because there were so many better candidates out there, but I gave it the benefit of the doubt. You might be right about the continuity thing, but I figured that he can still get that if you make the move now. I'm willing to give it a couple other games, but it isn't looking good.

 

What candidates were so much better? Mike McCoy?

[dpberr]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line is plenty talented? 

 

Pretty sure the WR's are dropping catches because they !@#$ing blow. 

 

They are basically throwing Allen to the wolves with nothing around him and letting him sink or swim. Ideally a veteran QB should be taking the beating and mentoring Josh in the process until there's an actual NFL wide receiver on the team. Just lack of foresight by McBeane. They were infatuated with steady Eddie too much. 

 

I think the OL is talented enough to be more competitive than they've been,  yes.  Many of their miscues are due to not being where they are suppossed to be.  

 

The wide receivers have NFL-level skills.  Zay Jones holds the college catch record.  Benjamin caught the ball 62% of the time it was thrown to him last year.  He showed what he can do when he's focuses in the preseason game against CAR.  He's at 33% this year.  You aren't in the NFL if you have zero talent catching footballs.  

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

The Bills suck at rebuilding, if that’s the case

How would you know...they have never actually done it

[416BillsFan]

Yes, fire him now! We'll kill two birds with one stone: creating stability for a young QB & making the position more attractive to good candidates!! Limited talent AND a notoriously short leash, who wouldn't sign up for that!

[Nihilarian]

I yearn for Anthony Lynn calling plays, running the offense. 

 

The 2016 Buffalo Bills had the #1 team in the NFL in rushing yards, #1 in the NFL in rushing TDs, #1 in the NFL yards per rushing attempt.

 

492 rushing attempts while being the #2 team in attempts. 474 passing attempts with Tyrod and EJ at QB.  Now swap in Josh Allen and it gives the rookie QB a solid run game to enable him to develop properly. The Bills ran the WC offense with shorter throws to help move the chains and make first downs. The problem was they had Tyrod who wouldn't attempt to throw unless the receiver was wide open. 

 

This Brian Daboll offense reminds me of Turk Schonert calling plays under Dick Jauron in 2008 in that Mike Martz deep passing scheme that ruined both JP Losman & Trent Edwards by getting them hammered. Attempting 5-7 step drop backs behind a line that wouldn't give them the time to make those deep throws. 

 

 

 

On another note to allow the OPs wish to come true. McD does have a very seasoned OC on the team in Terry Robiskie  the WR coach who coached 2nd year QB Marcus Mariota in Tenn. under Mike Mularkey to a 9-7 record 2x. Should he really want to make a change at OC to save Allen from being ruined.  Stating that it looks like Mike Mularkey is out of work and might want to return to the NFL as an OC. 

[NewEra]

?

[ColoradoBills]

43 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How would you know...they have never actually done it

 

You're right John the Bills have not totally rebuilt an offense in a long long time.

They have changed OCs every 2 years or less and continually tweaked what they had.

 

I got a feeling that Daboll (with Beane and McDermott's OK) is starting from scratch with Josh Allen.

I could easily predict that Dawkins could be the only offensive starter who will be around 2 years from now

other than Josh.

 

I know people are complaining about not running enough but Josh Allen and his arm is not going to be a

game manager QB.  He is going to be a gunner so I'm thinking that Daboll is evaluating his position coaches

and his schemes along with the players.  IF that is what the plan is I am all for it.  I know it won't make sense to

a lot of posters but I think it could be the right thing to do.

 

The Bill's are not offensively talented enough to worry about playing the game to fit the player they got.

Most of these players will not be here very long.

As a matter of fact they need to develop an offense that Daboll sees Josh Allen running.

 

I really hope he has the power to evaluate ALL of he offensive position coaches this year and fire/hire

those who see the Josh Allen vision he SHOULD be creating.

 

What do you/others think of my theory?

[Nihilarian]

55 minutes ago, dpberr said:

 

I think the OL is talented enough to be more competitive than they've been,  yes.  Many of their miscues are due to not being where they are suppossed to be.  

 

The wide receivers have NFL-level skills.  Zay Jones holds the college catch record.  Benjamin caught the ball 62% of the time it was thrown to him last year.  He showed what he can do when he's focuses in the preseason game against CAR.  He's at 33% this year.  You aren't in the NFL if you have zero talent catching footballs.  

 

I've seen that all year in each and every game in which a defender is left unblocked because a Bills linemen takes another's block. Dawkins did it once and he blocked the DT while the edge rusher came free.  I've seen this happen way more often then it should. This shouldn't happen after the preseason is over.

 

I think it's a cross between bad coaching (Juan Castillo) /play calling/game planning (Daboll). If McD fires Daboll he also needs to fire Castillo even more so. The line can't block properly, bad discipline in getting so many penalties, no run game to speak of. 

[LABILLBACKER]

I'm not ready to blow out Daboll yet. Yes he's bounced around a lot of teams but yesterday's play calling was stupid. You already know you have one of the weakest OL/WR combos in the NFL. Give your young rookie qb a fighting chance with quick reads, short dropbacks. You had to know Green Bay watched Viking tape and were going to blitz all day long. I saw zero hot reads by anyone. Josh is basically playing with olineman and wr's who won't even be on the field next year. Daboll gets the whole year to figure something out. 

[nucci]

13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'm not ready to blow out Daboll yet. Yes he's bounced around a lot of teams but yesterday's play calling was stupid. You already know you have one of the weakest OL/WR combos in the NFL. Give your young rookie qb a fighting chance with quick reads, short dropbacks. You had to know Green Bay watched Viking tape and were going to blitz all day long. I saw zero hot reads by anyone. Josh is basically playing with olineman and wr's who won't even be on the field next year. Daboll gets the whole year to figure something out. 

Yet the Browns have good players for Mayfield

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, nucci said:

Yet the Browns have good players for Mayfield

 

The had their fire sale a couple of years ago.

They are ahead of the Bills by 1 to 2 years in their "total rebuild".

[Boca BIlls]

OP needs to shut the !@#$ up

[Tenhigh]

11 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

What? The Bills were down 3 scores the entire 2nd half. All they needed was a touchdown and they would've been right back in it. They played like they were down 30 to nothing the entire game. If you agree with the play calling then I don't know what to say.

 

Then that would be an extreme injustice to the veterans on this team like Lorax or Kyle who are trying to build off the momentum of last year. 

 

Are you kidding me? LOL I've hated the Daboll signing as soon as it happened and 1 out of 4 games is not going to change my stance. If he can start putting together multiple games of competent offense opposed to getting blown out 75% of the time then maybe he'll earn my respect. Allen is what he is which is a Rookie who is going to be up and down regardless of the play calling. It's up to Daboll to make it easier on him which he most certainly isn't calling f*#@ing 5 wide sets on 3rd and manageables with a rookie QB, crap offensive line, and even crappier recievers. RUN THE BALL ! if you can't see that this isn't the problem then i'll be back to say I told you so when he gets fired.

Where did you empty your septic tank before joining TSW?  And does this mean you promise to leave until then?

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

16 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

What candidates were so much better? Mike McCoy?

Yes, that would've been a better option. How about somebody up and coming and not a burned out re-tread with mediocre success like Daboll? EDIT: shoot, they would've been better off with Chan Gailey as sad as that is. At least he could turn chicken #@! into chicken soup

12 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Where did you empty your septic tank before joining TSW?  And does this mean you promise to leave until then?

 

the buffalobills.com forums I posted for years and I've always lurked here. And nope, you're stuck with me. I'm going to bump the hell out of this thread when he gets fired. Trust me

13 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The had their fire sale a couple of years ago.

They are ahead of the Bills by 1 to 2 years in their "total rebuild".

 

Yeah, that usually happens when you have multiple top 5 picks year after year after year. I think Baker Mayfield was the obvious choice for everyone at number 1. They picked the consensus top dudes and now they have a future star QB and pass rusher. Anyone could've made those picks. The Bills took a HUGE gamble to get Allen

Edited October 2, 2018 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Roundybout]

12 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Yes, that would've been a better option. How about somebody up and coming and not a burned out re-tread with mediocre success like Daboll? EDIT: shoot, they would've been better off with Chan Gailey as sad as that is. At least he could turn chicken #@! into chicken soup

 

the buffalobills.com forums I posted for years and I've always lurked here. And nope, you're stuck with me. I'm going to bump the hell out of this thread when he gets fired. Trust me

 

Yeah, that usually happens when you have multiple top 5 picks year after year after year. I think Baker Mayfield was the obvious choice for everyone at number 1. They picked the consensus top dudes and now they have a future star QB and pass rusher. Anyone could've made those picks. The Bills took a HUGE gamble to get Allen

 

In what universe is Mike McCoy an "up-and-comer?" 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

19 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

This line is atrocious, and you think it's easy to establish the run. Gotcha. 

 

 Yeah, okay. Lesean McCoy 5 carries 24 yards and a 4.8 average. I know it's a small sample size, but if you're a Bills fan then you know Shady progresses with more carries and eventually he's gonna break one. He's the type of back that doesn't need an amazing offensive line. My point is you don't really know if you try. 

13 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

In what universe is Mike McCoy an "up-and-comer?" 

 

He's a decent coordinator with success in this league. FYI he orchestrated a playoff run with Tim freakin Tebow. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yep let's fire them all and just keep starting over.

 

Most of the offensive players need to be fired.

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Could be.  That was definitely the case for Carson Wentz which is why you should give Daboll at least the rest of the season.  All I'm saying is if the rest of the season mirrors yesterday you should pry look for a more accomplished offensive coordinator next year to see if Allen can develop into a franchise QB.

 

 

I guess I disagree even with that, Doc.

 

Our offensive personnel are not NFL-quality and our QB is looking like a clueless rookie. (Understandable, as he actually is a clueless rookie.) 

 

If the rest of the season mirrors yesterday, certainly Daboll shouldn't be safe. He should be evaluated very very carefully, but I could see that evaluation going either way. They could say, "Daboll just didn't do the job," or they could say, "He put them in position to do OK but the players simply couldn't execute."

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Yep let's fire them all and just keep starting over.

 

Most of the offensive players need to be fired.

 

Just sell the team to Bon Jovi. This whole season has been living on a prayer

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Bandito said:

Having a D minded HC is so outdated. Look at McVay in  LA, Reid in KC,  Nagy in Chi among others. McD just isn't a quality HC in the league.

 

 

Yeah, it's sad we have a defensive guy like Belichick and Zimmer, two of the four coaches in the conference championships last year.

 

As for McD, we'll know a few years down the road. But yeah, knee-jerk reactions are way more fun.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, it's sad we have a defensive guy like Belichick and Zimmer, two of the four coaches in the conference championships last year.

 

As for McD, we'll know a few years down the road. But yeah, knee-jerk reactions are way more fun.

 

You're right. I posted this out of anger right after the loss so I was kind of emotional, but I stand by my opinion of Daboll he sucks. You give lesean 5 carries when he's averaging 4.8 yards and instead resort to shotgun formations and deep pass plays? That makes no sense to me. Now that I'm cooled off I am willing to give it a couple more games if they start scoring at least 2 TD's a game, but another blow out accompanied with stupid play calls then he should be out of here.

[Thurman#1]

7 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

You're right. I posted this out of anger right after the loss so I was kind of emotional, but I stand by my opinion of Daboll he sucks. You give lesean 5 carries when he's averaging 4.8 yards and instead resort to shotgun formations and deep pass plays? That makes no sense to me. Now that I'm cooled off I am willing to give it a couple more games if they start scoring at least 2 TD's a game, but another blow out accompanied with stupid play calls then he should be out of here.

 

 

If only what we are "willing to give it" mattered. It doesn't. Not what you are willing to give it and not what I or any other fans are willing to give it.

 

What matters is what he gets. And that is very likely to be the rest of the year at least. One thing that is certain is that Daboll is being handicapped by the offensive personnel.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

 

the buffalobills.com forums 

 

 

Aaaaaaaaand there it is.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If only what we are "willing to give it" mattered. It doesn't. Not what you are willing to give it and not what I or any other fans are willing to give it.

 

What matters is what he gets. And that is very likely to be the rest of the year at least. One thing that is certain is that Daboll is being handicapped by the offensive personnel.

 

And the offensive personnel is being handicapped by Daboll. Chicken or the egg? We have a borderline HOF half back. What a waste of $. Might as well ship him off to the Steelers if we're just going to use him as a decoy and blocker. 

7 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Aaaaaaaaand there it is.

 

There what is? There's a lot of quality posters from BBMB that are now on here. Take your 38k posts and cram 'em up your @SS. I don't really care if you have clout on a freakin message board. Go insult somebody who cares.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 Take your 38k posts and cram 'em up your @SS. I don't really care if you have clout on a freakin message board. Go insult somebody who cares.

 

Irony.

[Doc Brown]

25 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

I guess I disagree even with that, Doc.

 

Our offensive personnel are not NFL-quality and our QB is looking like a clueless rookie. (Understandable, as he actually is a clueless rookie.) 

 

If the rest of the season mirrors yesterday, certainly Daboll shouldn't be safe. He should be evaluated very very carefully, but I could see that evaluation going either way. They could say, "Daboll just didn't do the job," or they could say, "He put them in position to do OK but the players simply couldn't execute."

They'll go with the former.  They weren't hesitant in firing Rick Dennison after one season and our WR core last year was almost as bad as what we have now. 

 

I look at it in terms of self preservation.  McDermott and Beane know their fates are tied to Josh Allen.  If they don't see improvement from him and our offense continues to be putrid, they're going to try and find a coach who has had more of a track record of success as both an offensive coordinator and developing young QB's.  

[Ol Dirty B]

On 10/1/2018 at 2:53 AM, John from Riverside said:

What if they are not trying to save their season?

 

What if we are rebiulding and going 8-8 doesnt really help us this year?

 

Hmmmmmm

 

But you're going to be praising them for last year and over achieving despite how counterproductive that is to what you are praising them for doing this year.

 

Got it. I guess I shouldn't even be surprised anymore.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, it's sad we have a defensive guy like Belichick and Zimmer, two of the four coaches in the conference championships last year.

 

As for McD, we'll know a few years down the road. But yeah, knee-jerk reactions are way more fun.

 

Yea I am not sold at all that only offensive guys can make successful Head Coaches. I don’t buy that. What I am coming round to is the idea that it is probably easier to find a good DC than a good OC (because good OCs seem to become HC candidates more quickly). Maybe you need a proven OC who is a failed HC? Hue Jackson might fit that profile.

[Tenhigh]

2 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

There what is? There's a lot of quality posters from BBMB that are now on here. Take your 38k posts and cram 'em up your @SS. I don't really care if you have clout on a freakin message board. Go insult somebody who cares.

Alas, you are not one of them.  And I HATE it when I agree with Joe.  It makes me feel all dirty.  

[WideRightRevenge]

Time for the Bills version of the Smurfs (Old Redskins WR adage for those scratching their heads) .. take Allen to three step drops since he appears to be struggling on 7 step drops and turning into defenders and have him hammer throws on quick slants/bubble screens to Ray Ray, Zay, Holmes, Foster (let them create after the catch) .... Bench Benjamin since he's too tall to be a Smurf, though his hands are blue (aka ice cold).

[CommonCents]

Too soon but he hasn’t been impressive. His playing calling doesn’t seem to adapt to down and distance. At this point if I’m HC I tell him to design a game plan to preserve Allen.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

You guy still want Daboll? Puts the last drive in Petermans hands when they should've made the Texans burn their timeouts with runs. They had the game for sure going into overtime.