The Draft Network's Jon Ledyard Eviscerates Allen’s Week 2 Performance

[ctk232]

19 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I disagree that the FO ever intended to sit Allen.  The absolute ONLY reason to trade Taylor before the draft and McCarron before the beginning of the regular season when the only QB on the roster not named Allen is Nathan Peterman is to make sure that Allen has to start early in the season.  It's absolutely the only reason why Peterman is still on the roster instead of some veteran QB.  Why would they do that?  To put butts in the seats might be one reason.  To cover the FO's collective butts if Allen busts seems a more likely one because they can always claim that Allen might have been better if he'd had more time to sit and learn but "circumstances" forced their hands. 

That seems to me more conspiratorial than logical. I believe Beane even admitted that they thought AJ was someone he wasn't, and that the plan was likely to show Peterman the door. But based upon offseason performance, Peterman just played better. 

 

We're speculating entirely as to the FO's true intention, but there was no debating the fact that this kid is more of a project than a day one starter. Anyone could see that Allen wouldn't be our day one starter from scouting - he was/is just the best option we had/have on the roster. Things happened and now he is QB1 due to a deplorable first game. It's speculation, but we can make an educated guess to say it is likely the FO never intended Allen to start this year, or if so, at least not this soon. There are much more productive, planned progressions of welcoming a rookie into their first game that teams take - this was not one of them as we had to respond to something pretty abhorrent in our first week, following an entire offseason of limited first team reps for Allen. 

 

I still think our Week 1 loss has just as much blame on the Defensive side of the ball, which carried into our first half of week 2. There's no going back from this either way, and we are where we are.

Edited September 19, 2018 by ctk232

[Wayne Arnold]

6 hours ago, Midwest1981 said:

"Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it.  But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged.  "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc.  I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)...

 

Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.).  Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc.

 

https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720

 

I thought he was better in Week 1 against the Ravens than he was on Sunday.

 

That being said, I'm hopeful that he'll only get better this season.

47 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Allen looks below average right now, but he's a rookie with no experience and he has a lot to learn.

 

At some point expectations will be greater than zero, however, and then he's going to have to perform.

 

Where each fan sets the performance line remains to be seen. 

 

Tyrod had/has supporters up to the very end and even now.

 

When should Allen be expected to perform better?  Mid-season?  By the end of this year? By the end of next year?

 

When?

 

What do you mean "better"? He should be better with each game.

[blacklabel]

Honestly, a fair number of these "draft experts" are just chomping at the bit to prove themselves right. They go through the pre-draft process and pick apart every player bit by bit in ways that border on obsessive and then when said player makes a mistake that the analyst pointed out, it's like they can't wait to hit Twitter and start screaming, "See?! See everyone?!?! I'm right! I pointed out a thing and that thing came true!!!" It's a miracle they don't trip over their boners as they try to race to their computers.

 

What's especially amusing is when one of these smug asshats gets served by the actual player they're evaluating. They'll tweet out a video of a play and say, "Player A does this when he should've done that, shows poor instincts!" And then Player A pops up in their mentions and says, "Are you in the huddle? Do you know the call? What you're saying is the exact opposite of my assignment on that play."

 

And what did these numbnut writers expect? Allen was gonna go in there with a patchy OL, subpar receivers against a solid defense and come out 30 for 33 for 418 yards and 5 TDs? 

 

Experience and progress. That's the goal for Allen this season. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

His All-22 critique of Allen.

 

9-19: Jon Ledyard from The Draft Network with Schopp & the Bulldog (21:16)

[C.Biscuit97]

EJ debut > Josh allen debut

Edited September 19, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[twist_to_open]

I'm sold after nearly a full game and a half already its abundantly clear Allen is not an NFL caliber QB, especially with all the talent around him that's going to waste. We need to end this experiment now!

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

I watched the game. I saw guys open that Allen didn’t attempt to throw the ball too. NFL open is different than College open. Allen will only get better. I don’t need this guy to tell me what I know. I have watched football since I was 8. I played into college. 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

8 minutes ago, twist_to_open said:

I'm sold after nearly a full game and a half already its abundantly clear Allen is not an NFL caliber QB, especially with all the talent around him that's going to waste. We need to end this experiment now!

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, Midwest1981 said:

"Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it.  But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged.  "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc.  I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)...

 

Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.).  Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc.

 

https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720

 

 

...LOL...."anyone who watched his performance knows I'm being 100% accurate".......and the lipstick on your twin cheeks is only your own maestro.....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

EJ debut > Josh allen debut

 

What's your metric for that?

[Just Joshin']

25 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

Honestly, a fair number of these "draft experts" are just chomping at the bit to prove themselves right. They go through the pre-draft process and pick apart every player bit by bit in ways that border on obsessive and then when said player makes a mistake that the analyst pointed out, it's like they can't wait to hit Twitter and start screaming, "See?! See everyone?!?! I'm right! I pointed out a thing and that thing came true!!!" It's a miracle they don't trip over their boners as they try to race to their computers.

 

What's especially amusing is when one of these smug asshats gets served by the actual player they're evaluating. They'll tweet out a video of a play and say, "Player A does this when he should've done that, shows poor instincts!" And then Player A pops up in their mentions and says, "Are you in the huddle? Do you know the call? What you're saying is the exact opposite of my assignment on that play."

 

And what did these numbnut writers expect? Allen was gonna go in there with a patchy OL, subpar receivers against a solid defense and come out 30 for 33 for 418 yards and 5 TDs? 

 

Experience and progress. That's the goal for Allen this season. 

Well said.......

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What's your metric for that?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00/gamelog/2013/

 

EJ had 2 tds, 0 ints, and left the field with the lead against the Pats.  Allen’s stats (obviously not all on him) aren’t completely awful because of garbage time when the Chargers were just trying to catch their flight.

 

that said, as awful as their development plan was with Allen, they can’t plug him now.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00/gamelog/2013/

 

EJ had 2 tds, 0 ints, and left the field with the lead against the Pats.  Allen’s stats (obviously not all on him) aren’t completely awful because of garbage time when the Chargers were just trying to catch their flight.

 

that said, as awful as their development plan was with Allen, they can’t plug him now.

Why do ppl keep trying to say stuff like this to fit their narrative?

 

Its an NFL game...it was not pre season.....the bills were close to making the score a 1 score game.....they were NOT just trying to catch their flight...

 

If anything.....the Chargers are a west coast team and typically the time change in a game happens at the BEGINNING of a game and the team starts to aclimate as the game wears on......meaning they (in theory) should have been sharper in the SECOND half where the bills were trying to make a game of it.

[26CornerBlitz]

FWIW

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, MJS said:

What we're all the experts saying about Goff in year 1? How about RGIII?

 

They're wrong just as often as they are right.

 

They are wrong 2 to 3 times more than they are right.  And even thats being conservative.  Which is why when there is any sliver of hope they could be right, they go hard to prove it, such as they are with Allen.  They were harsh critics going in, so now they see blood in the water to finally be right when they are so so so so often wrong.  

 

I could care less about these chicken heads, for every one fo these guys there are other people who know a hell of a lot more about football than them that think Josh has the potential to be a top tier QB in this league for a long time.  

[C.Biscuit97]

41 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Why do ppl keep trying to say stuff like this to fit their narrative?

 

Its an NFL game...it was not pre season.....the bills were close to making the score a 1 score game.....they were NOT just trying to catch their flight...

 

If anything.....the Chargers are a west coast team and typically the time change in a game happens at the BEGINNING of a game and the team starts to aclimate as the game wears on......meaning they (in theory) should have been sharper in the SECOND half where the bills were trying to make a game of it.

Dude, it was garbage team.  Shell defense, try to stop big plays, chew up the clock.  It was how Blake Bortels was a top 5 franchise qb a few years ago. Garbage time.

 

great news is he has a chance to prove himself this week against one of the best defenses in the nfl.

 

but since I posed it, who had the better rookie start - EJ or Allen?  Obviously, it means nothing going forward. Just a question.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Dude, it was garbage team.  Shell defense, try to stop big plays, chew up the clock.  It was how Blake Bortels was a top 5 franchise qb a few years ago. Garbage time.

 

great news is he has a chance to prove himself this week against one of the best defenses in the nfl.

 

but since I posed it, who had the better rookie start - EJ or Allen?  Obviously, it means nothing going forward. Just a question.

EJ had better stats

I would also argue he had a better team around him

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Those rebiulds did not have a QB the talent of Josh Allen....I feel like he is different then all of those other QBs for a multitude of reasons

 

When you have that on board.....the rebiuld has a much better chance of being successfull

Did you believe that before or after the Bills drafted him?  I didn’t want us to draft him so I’m not going to pretend I think he is some special talent now.

 

that said, I wish he was sitting.  I feel like that is his best chance for long term success and not playing with the worst offense in the nfl.

[TheBrownBear]

Lol...Geez...this was his very first start as a professional.  Not sure what people expected. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

EJ had better stats

I would also argue he had a better team around him

Fair enough.  I don’t think the difference is that big between those teams (SJ=Benjamin, Woods and Zay both 2nd rounders, Clay > EJ’s TE, McCoy, etc)

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did you believe that before or after the Bills drafted him?  I didn’t want us to draft him so I’m not going to pretend I think he is some special talent now.

 

that said, I wish he was sitting.  I feel like that is his best chance for long term success and not playing with the worst offense in the nfl.

He is used to that

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

He is used to that

Used to what John?

 

and for the record, I hate that I’m not more optimistic.  It sucks.  I just think we are doing everything all wrong yet again. 

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Did you believe that before or after the Bills drafted him?  I didn’t want us to draft him so I’m not going to pretend I think he is some special talent now.

 

that said, I wish he was sitting.  I feel like that is his best chance for long term success and not playing with the worst offense in the nfl.

I thought he was the highest ceiling......lowest floor QB

 

Always liked him.....from a personal standpoint we have a lot in common.......he has already faced a lot of adversity.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I thought he was the highest ceiling......lowest floor QB

 

Always liked him.....from a personal standpoint we have a lot in common.......he has already faced a lot of adversity.

I respect your opinion and wish I had more of it.  But there’s a reason why 6’5” guys with rocket arms aren’t getting heavily recruited.   I don’t know if you can survive in the nfl being this inaccurate.  And this team isn’t helping him.  Why couldn’t we get him on the Mahomes plan?

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I respect your opinion and wish I had more of it.  But there’s a reason why 6’5” guys with rocket arms aren’t getting heavily recruited.   I don’t know if you can survive in the nfl being this inaccurate.  And this team isn’t helping him.  Why couldn’t we get him on the Mahomes plan?

I do wish they had put more thought into a veteran QB to start this year......

[RFL]

8 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

My 2 cents.   I did not want to draft Allen due to accuracy issues.  But he has been better than I thought.  He is mentally strong, and can move in the pocket.  He also has ZERO help at the WR and OL positions, 2 areas where rookie QB's need help.  

 

If he doesn't improve, I can see us taking another QB in the 1st round next year, or early 2nd depending.  

 

Nothing to be lost by putting him out there now.  

 

 

We will still need an OL and true #1 WR

[keepthefaith]

The Bills have to find a way to run the ball effectively.  Without that no QB will be effective.  Run blocking should be the easiest weakness for the O-line to correct.  The Bills have a good stable of backs and lousy receivers.  The defense has no chance if the offense is operating in 3rd and long constantly and can't sustain some drives.   They need to conquer the basics and the QB's will get better at the same time. 

[CSBill]

8 hours ago, Utah John said:

The biggest mystery to me is why the Bills traded McCarron.  He was mediocre but competent, and he would have let Allen sit and watch.  Peterman is not ever going to work out.

 

Someone if the front office or on the coaching staff, or both, thought Peterman was ready. They were dreadfully, scary, wrong! And that is what scares me the most.

 

[Doc]

AJM’s play in preseason was poor. And has anyone said that he was a mentor to Josh?

[Turk71]

9 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

My 2 cents.   I did not want to draft Allen due to accuracy issues.  But he has been better than I thought.  He is mentally strong, and can move in the pocket.  He also has ZERO help at the WR and OL positions, 2 areas where rookie QB's need help.  

 

If he doesn't improve, I can see us taking another QB in the 1st round next year, or early 2nd depending.  

 

Nothing to be lost by putting him out there now.  

 

 

Why is the rookie QB you moved up to the top of the draft for playing behind a ****ty o line with no receivers? 

   Why was Star given 10 million dollars per for 5 years after having underperformed the last 3 season's? 

   Why would you pay a draft pick and 3.5 million dollars to a wr who was on the team for 2 weeks and never played a down? 

  Why would you spend your free agent money on washed up defensive players when you have a rookie qb, a ****ty o line and no wrs? 

[par73]

Bottom line is, issues that plagued him in college remain. Can he overcome them with time and experience? Color me skeptical.

[Fred Clause]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00/gamelog/2013/

 

EJ had 2 tds, 0 ints, and left the field with the lead against the Pats.  Allen’s stats (obviously not all on him) aren’t completely awful because of garbage time when the Chargers were just trying to catch their flight.

 

that said, as awful as their development plan was with Allen, they can’t plug him now.

So first drive of the second half they were trying to catch their flight, awesome anaylisis ? SMH...

[Turk71]

51 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

The Bills have to find a way to run the ball effectively.  Without that no QB will be effective.  Run blocking should be the easiest weakness for the O-line to correct.  The Bills have a good stable of backs and lousy receivers.  The defense has no chance if the offense is operating in 3rd and long constantly and can't sustain some drives.   They need to conquer the basics and the QB's will get better at the same time. 

The offensive line is the key to a good run game and the Bills don't have one, knew they didn't have one, and did next to nothing to address it. They spent on washed up d players while knowing They were drafting a QB high in the draft and did nothing for the o line and wrs. Inexplicable.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Turk71

[Lfod]

I don't understand why people expect so much from Josh Allen. The future is now and he is in the game. Let the disaster season roll on and give him a few games to rise up or flame out. It looks terrible now but the team could still find itself a little this season and give me hope. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Lfod

[Big Blitz]

Tyrod Taylor threw for more than 245 yards SEVEN total times in his career with Buffalo.

 

Allen did it in his first start.

 

I have no idea what this means.  But I think the kid is on the right track despite being in the worst situation imaginable for a 21 year old rookie.  

 

I watch every QB from Cam to Carr to Stafford make throws (lots of them) and go......really?  That was hideous.  

 

Let it play out.  The good news without question he looks like he belongs, has respect of his teammates, and did not lose his cool when things were going bad.

 

Also, the Chargers could be a Super Bowl team.  Same Vikings.  I'm just excited to see this kid play.  

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Allen was terrible. His timing is so far off right now. His eyes are slower than his feet. He isn't seeing the field. That scares me. Hopefully the game will slow down for him. Just have to let him play to find out. Might not be until next season.

Edited September 20, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[reddogblitz]

13 hours ago, dubs said:

Twitter is the worst. 

 

Twitter is a high tech peanut gallery.

[Rob's House]

People are awfully quick to assess this guy's ability. After watching the all-22 I was a little discouraged, but it's one game.

 

He did miss some open receivers, and his passes weren't pretty, but overall the receivers weren't doing a good job of getting open and he couldn't have much confidence in his protection holding up, which may have caused him to rush his throws. He didn't get much support from the running game either.

 

If he looks like this in week 10 I'll be concerned, but for now I'm going to sit back and hope for the best.

[reddogblitz]

57 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

He did miss some open receivers, and his passes weren't pretty, but overall the receivers weren't doing a good job of getting open and he couldn't have much confidence in his protection holding up, which may have caused him to rush his throws. 

 

His receivers did help him by making some circus catches on some would be errant throws. Specifically (whipping boy) DiMarco and Clay on the sidelines. Nice play by Zay Jones on the long ball.

 

Protection was not horrible IMHO.  He had a lot of time on a lot of plays. 

[BigDingus]

Well the ONE thing he was supposed to be good at ended up being one of his biggest flaws this game...

His ability to throw the ball downfield with ease & to hit WR's deep in stride was the main positive trait he had in regards to actual on-field ability. Yet he severely under threw several receivers on routes that would've been sure-thing TD's had he only hit them in stride. A few could've been picked off or just dropped in the dirt had it not been for some great awareness & heads-up plays by the receivers, adjusting their routes & cutting back to catch the ball behind them. 

 

Missing those short & intermediate passes? We knew he was inaccurate. Getting sacked a ton? We knew our O-line was one of the worst in the league. Poor decision-making? He was never known for his ability to read a defense, is a rookie, and had his first start, so that's not a shock. Throwing those INT's? When the O-line sucks, that's what happens...ask Peterman. 

So yeah, his performance was bad. All signs heading into the season pointed to him playing just like this. Unfortunately, he also failed at the one thing he's supposed to excel at...It's ok though, I'm sure that won't last, and that he'll not under throw so many people the more time he has to play.