The Draft Network's Jon Ledyard Eviscerates Allen’s Week 2 Performance

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/04/20/ledyards-final-2018-nfl-draft-positional-rankings-quarterbacks/

 

He has Allen ranked as the 5th QB prospect in the link below

 

He has him rated as a late-day 2 pick and says " that is still considerably higher than a logical analysis of him as a player would peg him" and acknowledges his " consistent pointed criticism toward Allen"

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, stony said:

Allen's going to be a tough grade all season.  For instance, his two longest plays were a missed read where he eventually goes back to Jones, and his inaccurate throw that made Dimarco fall down.  Stat line says 2/2 ~85yds.  A bit misleading, as one might have went for a TD and the other probably has 10-15yds of RAC.  Either way, and as you point out, don't get too bent out of shape over the endless micro-analysis of his play.  

RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? 

[Fadingpain]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

It doesn’t take a former player or coach to study football concepts and use that knowledge to break down All-22. Would people be this quick to discredit him if he praised Allen’s performance? Why are people so quick to attack the person rather than his opinion and logic? Are his opinions reasonable? Does he back them up logically? 

Yes, of course they are and yes he does.

 

He was on with Schopp and Bulldog explaining his take on Allen quite well a couple of days ago. 

 

Ad hominem attacks like we are seeing in this thread are a common logical fallacy widely practiced by your average Bills fan.

 

Ultimately, the source of the contempt for Ledyard is the poster's own fear that Allen isn't going to pan out.

 

He was considered a high risk project player by almost everyone, most had him as a 3rd round type gamble.

 

He is still exhibiting the same sorts of issues he has always exhibited, and his accuracy is all over the map.

 

It's just basic psychology.  Rather than address these things head on, the typical fan attacks the source of the criticism.

 

 

 

[Doc]

What did Ledyard think of Darnold pre-draft and what does he think about his performances the past 2 weeks?

[GimmeSomeProcess]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Yup. Totally fair. But equally fair IMO to point out other QBs, Mayfield included (included, in this instance, because he's the en vogue comparison), can throw inaccurately and get help from receivers. 

 

Allen's deep throw to Jones...he missed the timing for sure. But I can't get on him because he eventually recognized the coverage and made the right decision. Was it underthrown, sure. Was it deliberately underthrown? Don't know, and I'm pretty sure neither does this guy. What I do know is that it takes a certain perspective to label a 60 yard completion a 'mess', and I wonder if it had been another QB/WR combo making that play if he'd have described it similarly. 

Exactly to bang on a 60 yard pass play and say it was a negative throw is utterly stupid 

[stony]

28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? 

I don't have the desire to scan through every pass/read/decision he makes.  RE: Tyrod throw v JA throw...I thought Zay should've caught the ball just like I think Allen's pass to Dimarco should've been caught.  

 

Like I said before, the over-analysis of Allen will make you go crazy.  Side's have been drawn.  I'm Switzerland on this.

[DuckyBoys]

40 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Yes, of course they are and yes he does.

 

He was on with Schopp and Bulldog explaining his take on Allen quite well a couple of days ago. 

 

Ad hominem attacks like we are seeing in this thread are a common logical fallacy widely practiced by your average Bills fan.

 

Ultimately, the source of the contempt for Ledyard is the poster's own fear that Allen isn't going to pan out.

 

He was considered a high risk project player by almost everyone, most had him as a 3rd round type gamble.

 

He is still exhibiting the same sorts of issues he has always exhibited, and his accuracy is all over the map.

 

It's just basic psychology.  Rather than address these things head on, the typical fan attacks the source of the criticism.

 

 

 

He was a top 5 pick in almost every major draft board so I guess this guy is smarter than everyone else. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? 

 

TBH, I'm never 100% sure what the route and its options are supposed to be.  The only reason I think DiMarco ran a poor route there is because

1) our head coach publicly identified the route he was running as a "wheel concept"

and

2) also identified a route run by a WR on the other side of the field as the same route.

I compared them both to route charts and observed the latter looked like it's charted to look, and the former cut the corner and looked back too soon.

 

I don't remember what route Jones ran in the last seconds of the Panther game, but if it was the last seconds wouldn't it have been Peterman?  And sure, if the coach IDs the route it's supposed to be and you have some means to compare how other WR are being coached to run that route.....

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TBH, I'm never 100% sure what the route and its options are supposed to be.  The only reason I think DiMarco ran a poor route there is because

1) our head coach publicly identified the route he was running as a "wheel concept"

and

2) also identified a route run by a WR on the other side of the field as the same route.

I compared them both to route charts and observed the latter looked like it's charted to look, and the former cut the corner and looked back too soon.

 

I don't remember what route Jones ran in the last seconds of the Panther game, but if it was the last seconds wouldn't it have been Peterman?  And sure, if the coach IDs the route it's supposed to be and you have some means to compare how other WR are being coached to run that route.....

Well if it was supposed to be a wheel route then he should have bent his run more toward the sideline and curved upfield instead of just straight lining it toward the corner. So maybe the ball was where it was supposed to be. Who knows.

Edited September 22, 2018 by GoBills808
corner not post

[Protocal69]

It's funny because arm chair quarterbacks claim how bad Allen is but his competitors say how special he is and that sky the limit for the kid

[BobbyC81]

On September 19, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Utah John said:

It's no surprise Allen is at the point he's at.  This is what most people expected, a raw rookie, and he's doing relatively OK.  Obviously he needs better O line and WR help.

 

It's the other first rounder, Tremaine Edmunds, who has me a little concerned.  Great natural talent but not really catching on.  The Bills gave up a lot to move up to draft him, and so far it's not looking so good.

 

It's only been 2 regular season games!

[Batman1876]

I think Ledyard makes good points.  Allen looked how we expected him to, with all the issues we knew he had. Ledyard simply makes his bones using critical language to express the same point.  

 

He he does a mailbag column and was asked who has been disappointing to you so far. In other words who hasn’t played as well as you thought they would so far. He includes aallen with the note that Allen is playing exactly how he thought he would. In other words he wanted to write a dig at Allen and ignored the question to do so.  

Edited September 22, 2018 by Batman1876

[BobbyC81]

On September 20, 2018 at 8:57 AM, CLTbills said:

Who the hell is Jon Ledyard?

 

Wasn't he a defenseman for the Sabres?

[Fred Clause]

6 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Do you have a link? I’m curious to see what he thought about Allen pre-draft.

 

Obviously if Allen sucks then that will make him right. Saying Allen will suck wasn’t some outlandish prediction though. There were even a lot of people here who hated him as a prospect and didn’t want him. Are you just assuming he’s rooting against Allen simply because he didn’t think he will be good?

Most of the stuff I found was audio interview, but here is a quote from him:  “Allen also needs massive development and time to sit and learn in the NFL. But A.J. McCarron and Nate Peterman are the only other quarterbacks on the Bills roster, and they aren’t exactly experienced veterans at the position. It’s arguably the worst situation in the NFL for Allen, and the Bills traded up to acquire him with Josh Rosen on the board. Franchise-altering mistake in my opinion. We’ll see if I’m right.” He is invested in Allen failing....

[Hapless Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Well if it was supposed to be a wheel route then he should have bent his run more toward the sideline and curved upfield instead of just straight lining it toward the corner. So maybe the ball was where it was supposed to be. Who knows.

 

On the Film thing with Tasker and McDermott, McDermott said it was a "wheel concept". 

McD used the same term to describe Zay Jones catch, which was clearly run like a wheel route - but where Allen's throw was clearly inaccurate. 

 

[jrober38]

4 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

He was a top 5 pick in almost every major draft board so I guess this guy is smarter than everyone else. 

 

He was a top 5 pick on some draft board, but a 10 player on hardly any big boards. A lot of sites didn't have him as one of the top 32 players. 

 

Allen is a boom or bust prospect who history shows probably won't work out. I don't know why people get so upset when people are critical of him. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by jrober38

[26CornerBlitz]

30 minutes ago, LittleJoeCartwright said:

 

Wasn't he a defenseman for the Sabres?

 

Grant was. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

On the Film thing with Tasker and McDermott, McDermott said it was a "wheel concept". 

McD used the same term to describe Zay Jones catch, which was clearly run like a wheel route - but where Allen's throw was clearly inaccurate. 

 

Nice. Allen was way late on the Jones throw for sure. Bit lucky to have worked out, but work out it did. The Dimarco thing...ehh. I'll take a completion anyday, going forward I'm confident that throw will be on the money for some yac as he gets more comfortable.

[DuckyBoys]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

He was a top 5 pick on some draft board, but a 10 player on hardly any big boards. 

 

Allen is a boom or bust prospect who history shows probably won't work out. I don't know why people get so upset when people are critical of him. 

Maybe on ledyards board but then again he had paxton lunch and cardale jones ahead of Carson wentz.  Mayock, Mcshay, walter football, kiper, pete prisco all had allen as a top 10 pick

[jrober38]

Just now, DuckyBoys said:

Maybe on ledyards board but then again he had paxton lunch and cardale jones ahead of Carson wentz.  Mayock, Mcshay, walter football, kiper, pete prisco all had allen as a top 10 pick

 

So what? A lot of other guys had him as a 3rd or 4th rounder. 

 

All of the guys you mentioned have had plenty of huge misses when evaluating QBs. 

 

We'll see in 2-3 years if Allen works out, but people need to get used to the media being extremely critical of his play because it'll likely take a while for the light to go on. 

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Fred Clause said:

Most of the stuff I found was audio interview, but here is a quote from him:  “Allen also needs massive development and time to sit and learn in the NFL. But A.J. McCarron and Nate Peterman are the only other quarterbacks on the Bills roster, and they aren’t exactly experienced veterans at the position. It’s arguably the worst situation in the NFL for Allen, and the Bills traded up to acquire him with Josh Rosen on the board. Franchise-altering mistake in my opinion. We’ll see if I’m right.” He is invested in Allen failing....

 

I’m sure a lot of  Bills fans would agree with much of what he said there. Boohoo he likes Rosen more. Many here felt the same way before we drafted Allen. He thinks Allen will suck. It’s his opinion and is likely not going to change that simply because Bills fans are an overly sensitive bunch. Maybe Allen will have to change that opinion by being good.

[Fred Clause]

8 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

I’m sure a lot of  Bills fans would agree with much of what he said there. Boohoo he likes Rosen more. Many here felt the same way before we drafted Allen. He thinks Allen will suck. It’s his opinion and is likely not going to change that simply because Bills fans are an overly sensitive bunch. Maybe Allen will have to change that opinion by being good.

Oh I’m not saying I disagree with everything he says. Some of its over to he top, and some is spot on. But for a kid who has prematurely started just one game, it seems more like a justification analysis than true respectable work.

[NoSaint]

On 9/19/2018 at 10:53 AM, John from Riverside said:

These guys cling to being right when they make bust predictions on QBs

 

The problem?   Josh Allen looks like anything but a bust.....he is in the worst situation you could possibly imagine and still finds a way to make good plays (mixed with bad ones)

 

John, how can you call anyone out like that and then follow it up with your own glowingly positive review?  Surely you see the irony?

15 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Yes, of course they are and yes he does.

 

He was on with Schopp and Bulldog explaining his take on Allen quite well a couple of days ago. 

 

Ad hominem attacks like we are seeing in this thread are a common logical fallacy widely practiced by your average Bills fan.

 

Ultimately, the source of the contempt for Ledyard is the poster's own fear that Allen isn't going to pan out.

 

He was considered a high risk project player by almost everyone, most had him as a 3rd round type gamble.

 

He is still exhibiting the same sorts of issues he has always exhibited, and his accuracy is all over the map.

 

It's just basic psychology.  Rather than address these things head on, the typical fan attacks the source of the criticism.

 

 

 

 

Theres always going to be a “breakthrough thermometer to hide the fever” aspect to a fan board. 

 

Hopefully said fever is curable and not deadly for allen. He has shown a few flashes of both the best and worst. We just need to see the ratio keep improving.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

10 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

He was a top 5 pick on some draft board, but a 10 player on hardly any big boards. A lot of sites didn't have him as one of the top 32 players. 

 

Allen is a boom or bust prospect who history shows probably won't work out. I don't know why people get so upset when people are critical of him. 

This is false bro, he was a first round trip projected picked on the majority sites and especially the major ones since his junior year. Stop feeding lies, l love draft season and frequent these sites routinely. That statement is false 

Edited September 22, 2018 by GimmeSomeProcess

[Fred Clause]

15 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Yes, of course they are and yes he does.

 

He was on with Schopp and Bulldog explaining his take on Allen quite well a couple of days ago. 

 

Ad hominem attacks like we are seeing in this thread are a common logical fallacy widely practiced by your average Bills fan.

 

Ultimately, the source of the contempt for Ledyard is the poster's own fear that Allen isn't going to pan out.

 

He was considered a high risk project player by almost everyone, most had him as a 3rd round type gamble.

 

He is still exhibiting the same sorts of issues he has always exhibited, and his accuracy is all over the map.

 

It's just basic psychology.  Rather than address these things head on, the typical fan attacks the source of the criticism.

 

 

 

The biggest joke is posters whether they liked him or not claiming they know how his career will proceed after 1 start. That’s where you are a major failure, you are just as bad if not worse than the fan boys claims of greatness with your negativity. Chances are you will be right about Allen. It’s not hard to be as most young QB’s fail, so you are not  going out on a limb being negative and pointing out flaws,  you are not smarter than the fan boys, you have just taken the easy path. If Allen has some good games you will disappear, when he plays poorly you will appear gloating with your I told you so’s. It will all be so predictable and yet so boring...

[bobblehead]

17 minutes ago, Fred Clause said:

The biggest joke is posters whether they liked him or not claiming they know how his career will proceed after 1 start. That’s where you are a major failure, you are just as bad if not worse than the fan boys claims of greatness with your negativity. Chances are you will be right about Allen. It’s not hard to be as most young QB’s fail, so you are not  going out on a limb being negative and pointing out flaws,  you are not smarter than the fan boys, you have just taken the easy path. If Allen has some good games you will disappear, when he plays poorly you will appear gloating with your I told you so’s. It will all be so predictable and yet so boring...

 

 

It’s beyond just gloating. It’s just straight up creepy the lengths people are going when it comes to Josh Allen, I’ve never seen anything like it.  

[Cash]

18 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? 

 

To some extent, yes. Both were arguably bad passes (I'll argue that below) that were still catchable. FB DiMarco made a nice adjustment to catch the ball, WR Jones didn't. 

 

The passes themselves are hard for armchair QBs like us to evaluate. Here's my highly amateur take. I was at that Panthers game with a great view behind the play in question. The safety had completely vacated the area, and it looked to me like Tyrod recognized that and intentionally threw the pass more upfield, figuring Zay would recognize that as well. Zay didn't, and ran his route "as called" towards the sideline. If both are on the same page, that's a TD. 

 

With Allen's, I just saw on TV, so I have less of an opinion. The good is that it was ultimately still a catchable ball. The bad is that even if DiMarco ran the route wrong as Hap says, Allen was looking at him when he threw the ball, and threw it to his outside shoulder - not ideal. This wasn't a timing route where Allen lofted it up before DiMarco turned upfield - check the end zone cam. Bad throw even if the route was also bad. Or maybe good throw but too slow to realize where DiMarco actually was, which is also bad. 

 

To wrap up this novel, the bigger point is that Allen wasn't drafted #7 (but costing more like #1 in draft capital) to just be as good as Tyrod. Even Tyrod supporters like me only thought he was about the 15th best QB in the league. That's good enough to take you to the playoffs with a lot of help, and maybe win it all with like an all-time great defense or something. 

 

If the best we can say about Allen is that he's on Tyrod's level, he'll be a massive bust. Way too soon to make that call, and I'm keeping an open mind. Allen was always supposed to be a project, so it's no surprise that he's a bad QB right now. Hopefully he improves.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Cash

[BuffaloRush]

On 9/19/2018 at 10:28 AM, Midwest1981 said:

"Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it.  But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged.  "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc.  I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)...

 

Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.).  Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc.

 

https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720

 

Question - what makes Jon Ledyard such an authority?  He works for a second rate, niche website about 95% of football fans don’t even know exists.

[HappyDays]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Question - what makes Jon Ledyard such an authority?  He works for a second rate, niche website about 95% of football fans don’t even know exists.

 

There is no "authority" on NFL scouting. GMs making millions of dollars get it wrong as often as random scouting blogs run by fans who do it for fun. I take Ledyard's opinion for what it is. He clearly has a bias against Josh Allen but at the same time his analysis of the individual plays is fair. I wouldn't call his game "brutally bad," that's hyperbole. Darnold's game against Cleveland was brutally bad. Allen's first game was a typical rookie game and I just want to see him get better.

20 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

RE: the throw to Dimarco- I remember a ton of people last year swearing up and down that, in a very similar situation, Jones was to blame for running a bad route in the last few seconds of the Panthers game. The two plays aren't identical obviously (main difference is Allen-->Dimarco was a completion and Taylor-->Jones an incompletion), but does Allen get extended the same consideration that was afforded to Taylor? 

 

I tend to agree with this, I don't know for sure DiMarco made the right play on the ball. I didn't think Allen's accuracy was bad. I only saw 2 throws that were too inaccurate by NFL standards. Being incredibly precise with the ball will never be his game. Some QBs make their living hitting a pass 8 yards down the field with perfect precision that allows for 10 yards of YAC - Allen will instead just hit a receiver 18 yards down the field. It's the same result and you don't need pinpoint accuracy to play that style of QB. What he needs to get better at is reading the field and identifying coverages pre-snap. If you watch Mahomes play the past 2 weeks he hasn't been firing precise darts. He's identifying open receivers and delivering them the ball on time with just enough accuracy. His receivers are making good plays on the ball too.

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

There is no "authority" on NFL scouting. GMs making millions of dollars get it wrong as often as random scouting blogs run by fans who do it for fun. I take Ledyard's opinion for what it is. He clearly has a bias against Josh Allen but at the same time his analysis of the individual plays is fair. I wouldn't call his game "brutally bad," that's hyperbole. Darnold's game against Cleveland was brutally bad. Allen's first game was a typical rookie game and I just want to see him get better.

 

I tend to agree with this, I don't know for sure DiMarco made the right play on the ball. I didn't think Allen's accuracy was bad. I only saw 2 throws that were too inaccurate by NFL standards. Being incredibly precise with the ball will never be his game. Some QBs make their living hitting a pass 8 yards down the field with perfect precision that allows for 10 yards of YAC - Allen will instead just hit a receiver 18 yards down the field. It's the same result and you don't need pinpoint accuracy to play that style of QB. What he needs to get better at is reading the field and identifying coverages pre-snap. If you watch Mahomes play the past 2 weeks he hasn't been firing precise darts. He's identifying open receivers and delivering them the ball on time with just enough accuracy. His receivers are making good plays on the ball too.

That's exactly what I see when I watch Allen- a guy who can put the ball on the receiver at pretty much any part of the field. He's never going to be running a precision, ultra razor edge perfection short game like Brady and the Pats, but he's going to make throws downfield that give his guys a chance to make the catch. 

[LSHMEAB]

15 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

He was a top 5 pick on some draft board, but a 10 player on hardly any big boards. A lot of sites didn't have him as one of the top 32 players. 

 

Allen is a boom or bust prospect who history shows probably won't work out. I don't know why people get so upset when people are critical of him. 

 

Right. There's a reason these guys are willing to stake their "reputation" on Allen's failure. It's because there's always a team willing to bite on a guy with tremendous physical tools and limited production in college and they never seem to pan out. It's not because they hate him or hate your kids or whatever personal aggrievement you want to attach to the opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting Allen to succeed. We all want Allen to succeed. But you're kidding yourself if you think these people have some kind of personal vendetta. I'm sure the Ledyard types just view is a safe bet.

[Batman1876]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

Right. There's a reason these guys are willing to stake their "reputation" on Allen's failure. It's because there's always a team willing to bite on a guy with tremendous physical tools and limited production in college and they never seem to pan out. It's not because they hate him or hate your kids or whatever personal aggrievement you want to attach to the opinion.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting Allen to succeed. We all want Allen to succeed. But you're kidding yourself if you think these people have some kind of personal vendetta. I'm sure the Ledyard types just view is a safe bet.

I do think that Ledyard's gimmick is being the loudest Allen critic in the room. 

[LSHMEAB]

11 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

I do think that Ledyard's gimmick is being the loudest Allen critic in the room. 

 

Yeah, and he definitely has confirmation bias. He's got his little media schtick.

 

I just don't get why people are so apoplectic about it and take it so personally.

[Batman1876]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

 

Yeah, and he definitely has confirmation bias. He's got his little media schtick.

 

I just don't get why people are so apoplectic about it and take it so personally.

Because we all have a little bit of fear regarding if Allen will work out. 

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

John, how can you call anyone out like that and then follow it up with your own glowingly positive review?  Surely you see the irony?

 

Theres always going to be a “breakthrough thermometer to hide the fever” aspect to a fan board. 

 

Hopefully said fever is curable and not deadly for allen. He has shown a few flashes of both the best and worst. We just need to see the ratio keep improving.

Explain to me where anywhere that is a glowing review

 

"Anything but like a bust"  you know who looks like a bust?  Peterman.......wont throw the ball.....doesnt appear to have the physical tools and hangs balls in the air......Josh Allen doesnt do those things.

 

"Good plays mixed with bad ones".......ok......where is my glowing review there

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

There is no "authority" on NFL scouting. GMs making millions of dollars get it wrong as often as random scouting blogs run by fans who do it for fun. I take Ledyard's opinion for what it is. He clearly has a bias against Josh Allen but at the same time his analysis of the individual plays is fair. I wouldn't call his game "brutally bad," that's hyperbole. Darnold's game against Cleveland was brutally bad. Allen's first game was a typical rookie game and I just want to see him get better.

 

I tend to agree with this, I don't know for sure DiMarco made the right play on the ball. I didn't think Allen's accuracy was bad. I only saw 2 throws that were too inaccurate by NFL standards. Being incredibly precise with the ball will never be his game. Some QBs make their living hitting a pass 8 yards down the field with perfect precision that allows for 10 yards of YAC - Allen will instead just hit a receiver 18 yards down the field. It's the same result and you don't need pinpoint accuracy to play that style of QB. What he needs to get better at is reading the field and identifying coverages pre-snap. If you watch Mahomes play the past 2 weeks he hasn't been firing precise darts. He's identifying open receivers and delivering them the ball on time with just enough accuracy. His receivers are making good plays on the ball too.

 

And you've put your finger on the real places where Allen needs immediate improvement to function as an NFL QB. 

 

On several plays, there were WR downfield doing jumping jacks, waving semaphores, and otherwise trying to make it clear to Allen that they were Open!!  Allen missed seeing them, rolled out, and scrambled for a few yards.  If he can improve his ability to find those guys, he can immediately save wear and tear on himself and play a stronger game.  Improvement at setting protections (or handing that job off) would also help.

 

Whether DiMarco or Zay can get RAC yards is a refinement.  Finding the open guys downfield is a must.

[Cash]

On 9/22/2018 at 11:14 AM, Cash said:

 

To some extent, yes. Both were arguably bad passes (I'll argue that below) that were still catchable. FB DiMarco made a nice adjustment to catch the ball, WR Jones didn't. 

 

The passes themselves are hard for armchair QBs like us to evaluate. Here's my highly amateur take. I was at that Panthers game with a great view behind the play in question. The safety had completely vacated the area, and it looked to me like Tyrod recognized that and intentionally threw the pass more upfield, figuring Zay would recognize that as well. Zay didn't, and ran his route "as called" towards the sideline. If both are on the same page, that's a TD. 

 

With Allen's, I just saw on TV, so I have less of an opinion. The good is that it was ultimately still a catchable ball. The bad is that even if DiMarco ran the route wrong as Hap says, Allen was looking at him when he threw the ball, and threw it to his outside shoulder - not ideal. This wasn't a timing route where Allen lofted it up before DiMarco turned upfield - check the end zone cam. Bad throw even if the route was also bad. Or maybe good throw but too slow to realize where DiMarco actually was, which is also bad. 

 

To wrap up this novel, the bigger point is that Allen wasn't drafted #7 (but costing more like #1 in draft capital) to just be as good as Tyrod. Even Tyrod supporters like me only thought he was about the 15th best QB in the league. That's good enough to take you to the playoffs with a lot of help, and maybe win it all with like an all-time great defense or something. 

 

If the best we can say about Allen is that he's on Tyrod's level, he'll be a massive bust. Way too soon to make that call, and I'm keeping an open mind. Allen was always supposed to be a project, so it's no surprise that he's a bad QB right now. Hopefully he improves.

 

For the record, with 6 minutes to go in the first half of the Vikings game, Allen has played really well. Only one bad pass that I noticed - the underthrow to Foster. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Cash said:

 

For the record, with 6 minutes to go in the first half of the Vikings game, Allen has played really well. Only one bad pass that I noticed - the underthrow to Foster. 

 

Romo agrees with you

I’ll take Romo’s judgement >>>>>> Jon Ledyard any day

[Doc]

:LOL!:

 

Someone please post the Ledyard analysis of this game. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

:LOL!:

Someone please post the Ledyard analysis of this game. 

 

Imma guess crickets