The Draft Network's Jon Ledyard Eviscerates Allen’s Week 2 Performance

[Midwest1981]

"Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it.  But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged.  "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc.  I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)...

 

Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.).  Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc.

 

https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720

Edited September 19, 2018 by Midwest1981

[Heavy Kevi]

When I talk about Josh looking good last weekend, it comes with an implied 'except the fact he's a rookie and made some terrible plays'. 

 

I feel like that is implied because it's so obvious, and because it was telegraphed. Everyone knew he would be raw, so saying he did good is not saying he looked like a competent QB, but to say "hey look, he's progressing".

 

Anyhow, that's how I see. Obviously there were bad plays I don't think anyone has refuted that.

[BillsFan4]

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

[RyanC883]

My 2 cents.   I did not want to draft Allen due to accuracy issues.  But he has been better than I thought.  He is mentally strong, and can move in the pocket.  He also has ZERO help at the WR and OL positions, 2 areas where rookie QB's need help.  

 

If he doesn't improve, I can see us taking another QB in the 1st round next year, or early 2nd depending.  

 

Nothing to be lost by putting him out there now.  

 

 

[MJS]

What were all the experts saying about Goff in year 1? How about RGIII?

 

They're wrong just as often as they are right.

Edited September 21, 2018 by MJS

[Midwest1981]

I am not completely down on Allen, like I wrote.  And in most respects it's largely the Bills' fault for the rawest rookie outside of Lamar Jackson to have to be thrust into action before he's quite ready, which has caused a mechanical regression, things he's worked so hard to improve.

 

Buffalo thought they could wait a year and then surround Allen with the requisite surrounding talent.  Buffalo thought that Peterman's preseason wouldn't portend a second NFL start arguably worst than the first.

The Bills should certainly have put more of a priority on mentorship for Allen.

 

Allen can salvage and vindicate them, just because of the importance of the position and player.  But this past offseason was a borderline unmitigated disaster.  Like I wrote, they thought Allen would be afforded the time.  So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready quite yet and it didn't matter if they gave him any talent.  What a gross miscalculation, especially given what we saw from Peterman's first (and only) other NFL start.

[Johnnycage46]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

 

It does seem that way to me as well.  I assume most people are happy when they get to be "right" about something they have been harping on.  I'm not aware of this guy but if he was down on Allen before the draft, it's not surprising that he is excited to be "right" about Allen struggling.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

Totally agree with this statement. 

[MJS]

PFF disagrees with him. Allen was our highest rated player according to them. So who knows who is right?

[Midwest1981]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

PFF disagrees with him. Allen was our highest rated player according to them. So who knows who is right?

According to PFF, Allen graded out at 73.7 for his performance against Baltimore, which I thought was pretty encouraging, even mostly against second-stringers.  

 

But his overall grade dropped to just above 50 factoring in his Chargers' start, which did not grade out well.

[plenzmd1]

11 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

My 2 cents.   I did not want to draft Allen due to accuracy issues.  But he has been better than I thought.  He is mentally strong, and can move in the pocket.  He also has ZERO help at the WR and OL positions, 2 areas where rookie QB's need help.  

 

If he doesn't improve, I can see us taking another QB in the 1st round next year, or early 2nd depending.  

 

Nothing to be lost by putting him out there now.  

 

 

Man, i was killing him on completed passes..just like I used to do with Tyrod. The completions to Clay and Demarco were both awful, yet completed, passes. Accuracy to me is way more about ball placement than it is completion percentage..and Allen is hurting in that area now.

[Gugny]

17 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

 

It's just like here on this site.  Once someone "declares" that a draft pick will either suck or be awesome, they do everything they can to make sure they're "right."  Yawn.

[Blokestradamus]

26 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

3

 

As a 'film nerd' type myself, I don't think it inherently means what you think it does. I've seen things live that I've been really interested in digging into in depth, both good and bad. If you're that way inclined, you love having coaches film to dig into route combinations, coverages, progressions etc. that you can't see from the broadcast angles.

 

Wouldn't shock me if Jon is suffering confirmation bias (I find him sanctimonious at the best of times) but it might not be.

[TC in St. Louis]

He racked up 20 on San Diego.  This without a running game, an offensive line, and crappy receivers.  He's got a long way to go.  He knows it, too.  He doesn't need to read stuff like this about how lousy he is.  He'll come around.  

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

Part of me feels like its foolosh to make hard judgements after one game, but the issues shown by Allen on Sunday are certainly worrisome (but not necessarily unexpected though). Not thinking too much into them now, but I will be looking for progress in those areas later in the year. 

 

As a prospect, Allen was and still is well behind the curve. The talent is there, but as far as playing the position at a consistently high level, he has a lot of work to do. The game needs to slow down, he needs to not hesitate on quick passes, diagnose better pre-snap, and learn to make the veteran plays like when to throw it away and to slide. Those are all issues that come with time and experience. Seeing them now is one thing. Seeing them after 20+ games is another. 

[Midwest1981]

I don't think Allen has no hope but I do know the Bills have already made the climb uphill even greater.

 

He's a player that needed the most conducive environment to pan out and the Bills have made things almost as difficult as they could be at every single turn.

 

Like I wrote earlier, the Bills thought they could wait to play Allen and wait to give him any surrounding talent.  So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready.  They were egregiously wrong and we just have to hope Allen's mental toughness is strong enough that it ultimately won't matter.

[Chuck Wagon]

Unless you do what Mahomes has done or what Watson did last year, I firmly believe a lot of rookie / young QB analysis is confirmation bias.

 

If you liked Allen through the process, you'll look at the throw he made to Zay, his TD in a tight window in the back of the endzone, shrugging off some pass rushers and getting rid of the ball and say "see, I knew things were there", if you didn't, you'll look at his picks when he was forcing throws with the team behind, or a couple of misses and say "see, I knew he was brutal".

 

It's the same thing with Darnold, more people are convinced he'll be better, but he's had some awful INTs (which was a major concern coming in) and missed some relatively easy TD throws.

[co_springs_billsfan]

43 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

Oh good!  As a rule I disregard people's opinions when they tweet "lmao"

[Utah John]

The biggest mystery to me is why the Bills traded McCarron.  He was mediocre but competent, and he would have let Allen sit and watch.  Peterman is not ever going to work out.

[iinii]

6 minutes ago, Midwest1981 said:

I don't think Allen has no hope but I do know the Bills have already made the climb uphill even greater.

 

He's a player that needed the most conducive environment to pan out and the Bills have made things almost as difficult as they could be at every single turn.

 

Like I wrote earlier, the Bills thought they could wait to play Allen and wait to give him any surrounding talent.  So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready.  They were egregiously wrong and we just have to hope Allen's mental toughness is strong enough that it ultimately won't matter.

But if he is going to be great, he will be great no matter what. Being knocked around week after week just makes you stronger/better. Haven’t you heard? adversity is key to greatness! 

[dubs]

Noise noise noise. 

 

None of these people’s opinion matter, at all. Twitter is the worst. 

[quinnearlysghost88]

he's an adult who uses lmao...a lot. just another guy with an opinion and a twitter account. there are millions of them. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

These guys cling to being right when they make bust predictions on QBs

 

The problem?   Josh Allen looks like anything but a bust.....he is in the worst situation you could possibly imagine and still finds a way to make good plays (mixed with bad ones)

[2003Contenders]

22 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Unless you do what Mahomes has done or what Watson did last year, I firmly believe a lot of rookie / young QB analysis is confirmation bias.

 

If you liked Allen through the process, you'll look at the throw he made to Zay, his TD in a tight window in the back of the endzone, shrugging off some pass rushers and getting rid of the ball and say "see, I knew things were there", if you didn't, you'll look at his picks when he was forcing throws with the team behind, or a couple of misses and say "see, I knew he was brutal".

 

It's the same thing with Darnold, more people are convinced he'll be better, but he's had some awful INTs (which was a major concern coming in) and missed some relatively easy TD throws.

 

Bingo. No one (even Allen's biggest supporters in the draft process) claimed that he was going to be a 100% finished product from day one. Something tells me that if Allen matures and shows clear progression with his mechanics and completion % that we will not hear much from this Ledyard clown. Conversely,  every time Allen struggles Ledyard will post something to remind us yet again why he was "right" about Allen not being a worthy NFL QB prospect. The fact that this dude does such a thing before the 2-3 year window it takes to reach a fair evaluation of a drafted player's true capacity tells us all we need to know about he little he really knows.

[John from Riverside]

26 minutes ago, Midwest1981 said:

I don't think Allen has no hope but I do know the Bills have already made the climb uphill even greater.

 

He's a player that needed the most conducive environment to pan out (this year) and the Bills have made things almost as difficult as they could be at every single turn.

 

Like I wrote earlier, the Bills thought they could wait to play Allen and wait to give him any surrounding talent.  So it didn't matter if he wasn't ready.  They were egregiously wrong and we just have to hope Allen's mental toughness is strong enough that it ultimately won't matter.

Fixed it for you....I dont really think your coming down on Josh just that reinforcements are on the way after this year.....

 

Less then 3 million in dead cap space

More then 80 million in cap space

10 draft picks

[baskingridgebillsfan]

The bad reads and protection calls don’t bother me.  The accuracy was not good , which was the book in him heading into the draft.  No doubt he is a good athlete and he has a cannon but can he fix the accuracyv? 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

It does seem that way to me as well.  I assume most people are happy when they get to be "right" about something they have been harping on.  I'm not aware of this guy but if he was down on Allen before the draft, it's not surprising that he is excited to be "right" about Allen struggling.

Probably is a Pats fan worried what Allen will do to the power dynamics in the division with an aging Brady if Allen turns into something special

[Utah John]

It's no surprise Allen is at the point he's at.  This is what most people expected, a raw rookie, and he's doing relatively OK.  Obviously he needs better O line and WR help.

 

It's the other first rounder, Tremaine Edmunds, who has me a little concerned.  Great natural talent but not really catching on.  The Bills gave up a lot to move up to draft him, and so far it's not looking so good.

[Midwest1981]

17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Fixed it for you....I dont really think your coming down on Josh just that reinforcements are on the way after this year.....

 

Less then 3 million in dead cap space

More then 80 million in cap space

10 draft picks

I realize the Bills didn't have infinite resources this past offseason, not with our record dead cap and then trading up for Allen & Edmunds (which cost us five of our top-65 picks).  Nevertheless, considering we DID spend some $$$ on defense in FA more resources could have spent in the direction of the offense (in FA & the Draft), aside from adding McCarron a couple of days into FA (when musical chairs left him and the Bills still standing)- and then trading McCarron before the season- and then bringing in a proven poor starter in Russell Bodine, plus a few 5th (Wyatt Teller) & 7th-round picks (McCloud & Proehl).  

 

It was a pretty nominal approach and I believe that if McBeane could have foreseen the start of the season playing out like this they would have certainly have done things differently, if they're willing to be honest about that.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Midwest1981

[baskingridgebillsfan]

13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Fixed it for you....I dont really think your coming down on Josh just that reinforcements are on the way after this year.....

 

Less then 3 million in dead cap space

More then 80 million in cap space

10 draft picks

You need players to buy and the right people buying them.  Has this group given you reason to think they will identify the correct players 

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, Midwest1981 said:

I realize the Bills didn't have infinite resources this past offseason, not with our record dead cap and then trading up for Allen & Edmunds (which cost us five of our top-65 picks).  Nevertheless, considering we DID spend some $$$ on defense in FA more resources could have spent in the direction of the offense (in FA & the Draft), aside from adding McCarron a couple of days into FA (when musical chairs left him and the Bills still standing)- and then trading McCarron before the season- and then bringing in a proven poor starter in Russell Bodine, plus a few 5th (Wyatt Teller) & 7th-round picks (McCloud & Proehl).  

 

It was a pretty nominal approach and I believe that if McBeane could have foreseen the start of the seeing playing out like this they would have certainly have done things differently, if they're willing to be honest about that.

 

 

You cant do it all in one offseason.

 

 I would have liked to see a different veteran QB but maybe this is all part of the plan....you dont get to the top 5 draft selections by being good.

1 minute ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

You need players to buy and the right people buying them.  Has this group given you reason to think they will identify the correct players 

Honestly too early to tell

 

Im NOT gonna blame Vonte Davis on our people.....a former pro bowler for another team you take chances on a guy like that.....this is absolutely on Vonte

 

Bodine.....not a great FA selection

 

Murphy.....looks to me to be getting better week to week...he was getting pressure this past weekend and may not be completely healthy yet

 

Chris Ivory.....was doing what he was advertised to do.....we have a good RB stable

 

Kerley.....didnt pay him much....practically a street free agent.....they are looking at their younger guys because we are rebiulding

 

Its a little early to evaluate the free agents from this year after game 2......better to evaluate at the end of the season

 

 

[thurst44]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

I am not saying he is wrong. Josh struggled mightily. 

 

But, reading through that twitter timeline, this tweet stuck out to me - 

 

 

Does it almost seems like he is excited that Josh Allen struggled and he gets to point it out, or is it just me? 

 

He was a very strong critic of Allen before the draft iirc. 

Beyond the fact that he's a rookie who had a couple touchdown drives against a good defense at a point where many QBs would have floundered, Ledyard's whole zeal for tearing a rookie's first game apart is less than endearing.

 

While I fully understand why it's happening and it very well could be a disastrous season, I'm not all in for this all-time bad team/trainwreck narrative. Hopefully, the team will give me (and others who haven't abandoned all hope) something more than one second half against the Chargers to back up that side of the story.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You cant do it all in one offseason.

 

 I would have liked to see a different veteran QB but maybe this is all part of the plan....you dont get to the top 5 draft selections by being good.

Honestly too early to tell

 

Im NOT gonna blame Vonte Davis on our people.....a former pro bowler for another team you take chances on a guy like that.....this is absolutely on Vonte

 

Bodine.....not a great FA selection

 

Murphy.....looks to me to be getting better week to week...he was getting pressure this past weekend and may not be completely healthy yet

 

Chris Ivory.....was doing what he was advertised to do.....we have a good RB stable

 

Kerley.....didnt pay him much....practically a street free agent.....they are looking at their younger guys because we are rebiulding

 

Its a little early to evaluate the free agents from this year after game 2......better to evaluate at the end of the season

 

 

Star for ten million is a major over pay.   

5 on a.j 

wasted 2 million on Coleman , 

we will see.  The fact that they spent almost all of their resources on the d and not to help Allen makes me question their judgement 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

Star for ten million is a major over pay.   

5 on a.j 

wasted 2 million on Coleman , 

we will see.  The fact that they spent almost all of their resources on the d and not to help Allen makes me question their judgement 

If this D gets their act together then Star was not a major overpay.....saw him taking on lots of double teams Sunday and that is what he is here for......teams are not running up our middle.......

 

2 million is a drop in the bucket on a former 1st round pick.......the other teams are also bringing him in hoping to milk something out of him....

 

I think the plan was to lean on the defense and go with AJM...then AJM ended up not being what they were looking for....or it really may be as simple as......they are doing a real rebiuld this year (which some would call tanking)

 

There are some really good pass rusher's high in this next year's draft......

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

58 minutes ago, Utah John said:

It's no surprise Allen is at the point he's at.  This is what most people expected, a raw rookie, and he's doing relatively OK.  Obviously he needs better O line and WR help.

 

It's the other first rounder, Tremaine Edmunds, who has me a little concerned.  Great natural talent but not really catching on.  The Bills gave up a lot to move up to draft him, and so far it's not looking so good.

 

Overreaction IMO. The whole defense looked like hot dookie until the 2nd half of week 2. He's a rookie, the youngest at LB in the history of the modern NFL. He's going to struggle reading for a while, or take poor angles defending the pass at times. Opponents are going to focus their attack on your weakest areas, and more often than not, its the players with the least experience that are the weakest links. 

 

When it comes to Allen amd Edmunds, Bills fans need to GIVE IT TIME!!! Nothing that we're seeing from either player is unexpected at all. Not from me, or anyone else that did enough homework on these guys before suiting up as Bills. The issues that they're showing right now are the exact issues that I thought we'd see and posted here months ago. The only people that are surprised or genuinely "concerned" about them right now are the people that had the wrong expectations for them, and for this team this season. 

 

And the Bills really didn't give up "a lot" to get him.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[26CornerBlitz]

1 hour ago, TC in St. Louis said:

He racked up 20 on San Diego.  This without a running game, an offensive line, and crappy receivers.  He's got a long way to go.  He knows it, too.  He doesn't need to read stuff like this about how lousy he is.  He'll come around.  

 

San Diego didn't even show up.

[John from Riverside]

40 minutes ago, Utah John said:

It's no surprise Allen is at the point he's at.  This is what most people expected, a raw rookie, and he's doing relatively OK.  Obviously he needs better O line and WR help.

 

It's the other first rounder, Tremaine Edmunds, who has me a little concerned.  Great natural talent but not really catching on.  The Bills gave up a lot to move up to draft him, and so far it's not looking so good.

Edmunds has played 2 NFL games.   He was probably our best defensive player in game one and he struggled game two.

 

That is what you get with rookies.....but definately not a reason for concern when he is having good games....yet

[HappyDays]

It wasn't a great performance but QBs practically never look good in their first games as rookies. Watson in game 1 came in the 2nd half and had a 60.4 passer rating. Game 2 he was 75.9. Game 3 he was 90.6. Pat Mahomes got his first start in the last game of his rookie season against a bad Denver defense with nothing to play for and had a passer rating of 76.4. All I want to see from Allen is steady progress.

Edited September 19, 2018 by HappyDays

[Mark Vader]

I'm not worried about Allen after one game. He looked like a rookie quarterback.

 

Made some bad plays, made some good plays. He could have thrown to Zay Jones earlier on that deep completion. The pass to DiMarco was off. The first interception he should have thrown away. The second interception was bad.

 

He looked sharp on the first touchdown drive. Two nice passes were completed to Clay, and the pass late in the game to Holmes was good. The touchdown pass to Benjamin was on the money. There were also a few drops by receivers as well.

 

I'm not thrilled with Allen running as much as he did, especially since he did not slide, but he's a rookie with a daredevil mentality. We've seen rookies do that before, and he will learn from that. I would also like to keep the designed runs to a bare minimum.

 

I did not want to see Allen playing this early in the season, but that's what we have. I have confidence that Allen will get better.

[stevewin]

All national media reporting on the Bills right now is some metaphorical mash up of kicking a dog, kicking a man when he's down, and beating a dead horse