Our initial fears of Brian Daboll’s incompetence were not quelled after Week 1

[QCity]

We got the ball with 5 seconds left in the half in our own zone and were losing 26-0. He called a 5-yd out.  What was he trying to accomplish with that? Maybe get a pick-6 and try to break the record for comebacks?

[Boatdrinks]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I had no initial fears as he was touted as getting a brilliant offensive mind that studied under Belichick, Saban.  

 

One week does not define a career so I'm willing to see how he does going forward. If he wants his offense to work he had better get that run game going because his QB's are far too raw to run some advanced pass first, hurry up offense. 

Tall order, though. The all -22 showed us that the run blocking was worse than the pass pro. By a lot. The Bills have little talent on the Oline and played with no physicality whatsoever. Prospects for cranking up a run game are slim. Watching the NYJ game, the contrast between the two Olines was stunning. 

54 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Too simplistic. Gailey and Roman didn’t have all that much to work with either but you were able to recognize creative concepts and worthy schemes that often or occasionally resulted in chicken salad.

True. Of course, teams figured out Gaileys schemes halfway through the season and forced the WRs to do things they weren’t capable of . It was interesting while it lasted, though. 

[BuffaloRush]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

We all wanted to believe that Daboll’s putrid tenure as NFL OC was due to poor personnel.

 

While watching the game on Sunday I was disappointed by the lack of imagination/creativity and struck by how seldom the receivers were able to get open - which is a strong indication of scheme issues as much as it is (or perhaps more than) wide receiver talent limitation.

 

Kurt Warner and Doug Farrar have confirmed my fears that Daboll might in fact stink.

 

 

 

 

Here’s the thing.... Sal Carpaccio spoke about this on his Extra Point Show.  He said that the Bills were down 26-0, and it escalated fast.  They were down by so many points that they never had a chance to establish their run game.  Then with Allen in the game and with it being the 1st game of the season, he didn’t want to put too much on tape.  

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

We all wanted to believe that Daboll’s putrid tenure as NFL OC was due to poor personnel.

 

Please do not pretend to speak for everyone with "our" and "we".  Use terms like "me and myself and I".

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hard to put a number on it. 

 

Fans are already turning on McDermott after ONE game. If they have a 3 or 4 win season and start out next year slow, he might not make it the full season. 

Exactly. It would really be more of a big picture- but feeling type deal than one that is quantified by a number. Bills fans should make no mistake, this kind of blunder at the QB position leaving no viable option but a raw rookie could be a career -killer. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Too simplistic. Gailey and Roman didn’t have all that much to work with either but you were able to recognize creative concepts and worthy schemes that often or occasionally resulted in chicken salad.

Wayne...you were able to discern these offensive nuances, or lack thereof, from one game of football?

[Cash]

Jury's still out for me on Daboll.  Whoever the best OC in the world is probably couldn't get this team into the top half of NFL offenses.  Talent is definitively worse than last year, and much worse when Peterman is in at QB.  But there's still (IMO) ways to tell if the OC knows what he's doing - play design, play calling, etc.  Daboll talks a very good game, which is better than a lot of the duds we've had - including Dennison last year.  And when the game was still relatively close, he didn't just run-run-pass-punt.  But obviously there weren't much in the way of positives on offense, so I think it's tough for anyone to endorse Daboll after week 1.

[Nihilarian]

34 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hard to put a number on it. 

 

Fans are already turning on McDermott after ONE game. If they have a 3 or 4 win season and start out next year slow, he might not make it the full season. 

I agree to a point. Kim and Terry run this team and although they may listen to the fans quite a bit I kinda doubt they will follow with what the fans want.

 

But C'mon Pickerman was beyond pathetic... as was the offensive line, as were the receivers, as was Daboll, as was the defense for a while, as was special teams.     

 

It's tough to win in the NFL when the entire team looks undisciplined, unprepared at first. The team came around but it was already out of hand and too late. 

[MJS]

4 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

Quelled... quelled... someone got themselves a calendar word-of-the-day dictionary.

 

That's a pretty normal word.

[Nihilarian]

5 minutes ago, Cash said:

Jury's still out for me on Daboll.  Whoever the best OC in the world is probably couldn't get this team into the top half of NFL offenses.  Talent is definitively worse than last year, and much worse when Peterman is in at QB.  But there's still (IMO) ways to tell if the OC knows what he's doing - play design, play calling, etc.  Daboll talks a very good game, which is better than a lot of the duds we've had - including Dennison last year.  And when the game was still relatively close, he didn't just run-run-pass-punt.  But obviously there weren't much in the way of positives on offense, so I think it's tough for anyone to endorse Daboll after week 1.

We're gonna know pretty quick if he starts the game out with that pass first, quick strike crap. This is not a strong passing team and it doesn't take a brainiac to see that much.  

 

The Bills need to get Shady involved in the run game first and then into open space in the passing game.     

 

 

[Warcodered]

Is there any chance that the offensive scheme didn't fit well with Peterman is it wasn't being designed for him?

[FistingBot]

For those keeping score, here is Daboll's resume as an NFL offensive coordinator:

2009 Cleveland Browns: yards per game = 32nd of 32 teams, points per game = 29th

2010 Cleveland Browns: ypg = 29th; ppg = 31st

2011 Miami Dolphins: ypg = 22nd, ppg = 20th

2012 Kansas City Chiefs: ypg = 24th, ppg = 32nd

 

...in all cases the same "his players weren't good" excuse can be made. But, at some point you have to show you can work with what you got.

[Jerome007]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Several of the all-22 analyses seem to suggest that his concepts were leaving men open, we just couldn't get to them.

 

OTOH Kurt Warner does truly know something, just like Tony Romo so...uncertain who to believe.

Yeah. Some people with great credibility saying opposite things. Oh well, it was only ONE game so let's roll and move forward. My own uneducated disappointment is if the OL and WRs are your weak points, and RBs and TEs your strong points, why so many one back + 3-4 WRs sets? Use double TEs, Shady + Ivory at the same time, Shady in the flat hopefully lined up with a LB etc. Mix things up! And with Allen's arm, Daboll better use some max protection plays + deep routes. Change things up!

 

I saw on NFL network a breakdown of two great plays by the Redskins OLine and I was shocked at how mobile they were comparing to the Bills'

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Jerome007

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Are you shocked?  A notoriously  poor offensive coordinator is going to come to Buffalo with the worst offense talent in the league and all the sudden be good?

 

 hoping two negatives make a positive? 

23 minutes ago, October 1918 said:

For those keeping score, here is Daboll's resume as an NFL offensive coordinator:

2009 Cleveland Browns: yards per game = 32nd of 32 teams, points per game = 29th

2010 Cleveland Browns: ypg = 29th; ppg = 31st

2011 Miami Dolphins: ypg = 22nd, ppg = 20th

2012 Kansas City Chiefs: ypg = 24th, ppg = 32nd

 

...in all cases the same "his players weren't good" excuse can be made. But, at some point you have to show you can work with what you got.

 

His tenure in Cleveland shows with some  continuity he can improve ?

Edited September 12, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, October 1918 said:

For those keeping score, here is Daboll's resume as an NFL offensive coordinator:

2009 Cleveland Browns: yards per game = 32nd of 32 teams, points per game = 29th

2010 Cleveland Browns: ypg = 29th; ppg = 31st

2011 Miami Dolphins: ypg = 22nd, ppg = 20th

2012 Kansas City Chiefs: ypg = 24th, ppg = 32nd

 

...in all cases the same "his players weren't good" excuse can be made. But, at some point you have to show you can work with what you got.

HOLY ****!  Okay, Now I'm thoroughly afraid for Josh Allen soon to be the human pinata. 

[Fadingpain]

6 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I will reserve judgment on Daboll. I'm not sure anyone could have done much better with the offensive talent that was on the field last Sunday.

 

Sort of like commissioning Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel - and then giving him paint brushes without any bristles...

That is precisely the point of the tweets referenced by the OP.

 

Our lack of success in Week 1 is as much a result of what we asked the talent to do, as much as the quality of the talent itself.

 

That's a coaching problem, not a personnel problem.

 

 

[Laughing Coffin]

quell them, quell them all!

[Bob in STL]

7 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I will reserve judgment on Daboll. I'm not sure anyone could have done much better with the offensive talent that was on the field last Sunday.

 

Sort of like commissioning Michelangelo to paint the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel - and then giving him paint brushes without any bristles...

Come on man, start hating him now.  How many games do you need? 

[billsfan1959]

58 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

That is precisely the point of the tweets referenced by the OP.

 

Our lack of success in Week 1 is as much a result of what we asked the talent to do, as much as the quality of the talent itself.

 

That's a coaching problem, not a personnel problem.

 

 

I get the point of the tweets - just not sure I agree that it was more coaching than personnel. For example, Doug Farrar being perplexed about plays designed for Peterman to be an anticipation thrower, when he is "not an anticipation thrower," is ridiculous. Peterman is awful; however, about the only good quality he has (which seems to only manifest in preseason games) is to throw with anticipation. 

 

The lack of talent and execution on the field Sunday at QB, OL, and WR was pretty self evident.

 

I think I will give Daboll more than one game before I join the lynch mob...

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, October 1918 said:

For those keeping score, here is Daboll's resume as an NFL offensive coordinator:

2009 Cleveland Browns: yards per game = 32nd of 32 teams, points per game = 29th

2010 Cleveland Browns: ypg = 29th; ppg = 31st

2011 Miami Dolphins: ypg = 22nd, ppg = 20th

2012 Kansas City Chiefs: ypg = 24th, ppg = 32nd

 

...in all cases the same "his players weren't good" excuse can be made. But, at some point you have to show you can work with what you got.

 

To be fair, in 2011 the Dolphins improved to 20th from having been 30th the year before, with Matt Moore at QB.

Also to be fair, coaches do sometimes struggle, drop back to their previous level of competence, then learn something that helps them succeed when they get another shot.  We'll see.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 hours ago, White Linen said:

There isn't an offensive coordinator alive that can derive a game plan with Peterman, our WR's and O line.  

 

...according to the TBD glossary, ONE GAME is sufficient enough as a body of work for critical analysis....and while we're talking coaching, special thanks to McD as HS for having this club woefully unprepared, DC Frazier's game plan carrying over from pre-season and of course OL Coach Castillo for his legendary brick wall......game 1 was ugly but it is game 1 in a transition year....

[C.Biscuit97]

His nfl resume sucks and was worse than Dennison.  Not sure what fans were expecting.  There is nothing innovative about his offenses.

 

 

[The Senator]

 

After Mike Leach goes undefeated at Washington State,blowing out opponents one after another, we should beg him to be our OC, maybe even our HC.

[SouthNYfan]

8 hours ago, JPP said:

If history has shown anything...chances are Daboll will be a disappointment....only thing is who will be more putrid with the playcalling...Dennison or Daboll?

 

How much of this is on MCD though also??

I don't care who your OC is, the head coach almost always has final say.

It's why rexy had issues with his offenses both in NY and Buffalo at times.

I remember a story about when the Jets signed sparano, and Ryan wouldn't let him call anything.

He walked away from 2 years of guaranteed money just to get away from Rex after a year.

 

McD is so boring and conservative.

He makes vanilla ice cream look exciting.

I truly wonder if he is overriding creative/aggressive offenses because he wants to keep things basic and conservative.

[fansince88]

Thanks @Wayne Arnold. I didnt know I had a fear about that till you mentioned  it.

[T master]

9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

We all wanted to believe that Daboll’s putrid tenure as NFL OC was due to poor personnel.

 

While watching the game on Sunday I was disappointed by the lack of imagination/creativity and struck by how seldom the receivers were able to get open - which is a strong indication of scheme issues as much as it is (or perhaps more than) wide receiver talent limitation.

 

Kurt Warner and Doug Farrar have confirmed my fears that Daboll might in fact stink.

 

 

 

 

The second opinion sticks more with me because i read a article on Rumblings that said there were plenty of missed opportunity's that Petermen didn't take advantage of so even though Warner may have a point i'm hoping that part of that could be due to the inexperience of the QB's !! Time will tell !! 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I think Degenerate Mikes poll hit the nail on the head!

[Mike in Syracuse]

When I see All - 22 film of WR's running wide open without a Bengal within 10 yards of them there's nothing wrong with the OC or the offense.    If we had a QB who actually threw to the open WR's no one would be criticizing Dabol.

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

McD won’t get to fire a second OC.

No he won't,  if Daboll fails Mickey D is gone.

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I think I will give Daboll more than one game before I join the lynch mob...

 

 

You will be late comer; lynch mobs in Buffalo start BEFORE someone is hired.

[SouthNYfan]

35 minutes ago, Mike in Syracuse said:

When I see All - 22 film of WR's running wide open without a Bengal within 10 yards of them there's nothing wrong with the OC or the offense.    If we had a QB who actually threw to the open WR's no one would be criticizing Dabol.

 

Where's this film?

Oh you mean of a preseason game with backup DBs?

gotcha.

[MAJBobby]

9 hours ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

Just out of curiosity, what plays would you dial up for: an offensive line that holds up for an average of 2.4 seconds, a wide receiver corps that we all knew was probably the worst in the league, and features a giant man with feet for hands as our number one guy, and a quarterback who's qbr ranks 244 out of 247 since 2001 and has the arm strength of a jv cheerleader? (All stats were off the top of my head so maybe slightly inaccurate but you get the point)

 

Im guessing it would be something like quick, timing based throws and a few Our Fathers every time Nate dropped back to pass. If you watched the post game interview with Weddle, he talked about all of that. He said something to the effect of, "we watched Nate play, and we knew they were going to use quick short timing passes, and that he has a noodle arm that would give us chances to intercept him." 

 

Just like I'm giving Beane and McD a slight pass this year for having to put together and coach a roster with a mind boggling handicap due to the dead money, I'm giving Daboll a slight pass in that I don't think anybody could get success out of probably one of the least talented offenses ever assembled. As much as it sucks, we're going to have to play the waiting game to see what these guys can do when they have 90M in cap space and a full draft next year before we can get a reading. 

 

As a disclaimer, I'm also not that confident in Daboll. I'm just willing to wait till next year to let him coach an NFL offense, which we do not have this year. 

 

My question is why are Beane and McD getting a pass for a situation they created themselves?

[SoCal Deek]

Didn't Mrs Seinfeld use that word in a game of Scrabble?  Or was that "quon"?

[ColoradoBills]

Daboll may fail as the Bills OC but judging him after what possibly could be the worse offensive player performance of 2018 is a bit foolish.

[Maine-iac]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Daboll may fail as the Bills OC but judging him after what possibly could be the worse offensive player performance of 2018 is a bit foolish.

I personally am not judging him after that performance.  I had huge doubts long before that train wreck.  Notice Perry Fewell isn't a DC anywhere.  You know why? Because everywhere he coached the defense's gave up a ton of points.  People can like Daboll all they want.  If his offenses don't score more than 20 ppg on average, hopefully significantly more, then he is going to end up a TE coach again and sooner rather than later.

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

I personally am not judging him after that performance.  I had huge doubts long before that train wreck.  Notice Perry Fewell isn't a DC anywhere.  You know why? Because everywhere he coached the defense's gave up a ton of points.  People can like Daboll all they want.  If his offenses don't score more than 20 ppg on average, hopefully significantly more, then he is going to end up a TE coach again and sooner rather than later.

 

Which will also mean that McD will not be the HC. He wont get a third crack at OC

[ColoradoBills]

15 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

I personally am not judging him after that performance.  I had huge doubts long before that train wreck.  Notice Perry Fewell isn't a DC anywhere.  You know why? Because everywhere he coached the defense's gave up a ton of points.  People can like Daboll all they want.  If his offenses don't score more than 20 ppg on average, hopefully significantly more, then he is going to end up a TE coach again and sooner rather than later.

 

If the bolded is the bar for his job they better fire him now.  LOL

Half the teams in the NFL last year had 21 or less points per game average.

 

I truly believe Sean Payton couldn't get 21 points per game from this offense.

 

[Maine-iac]

18 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

If the bolded is the bar for his job they better fire him now.  LOL

Half the teams in the NFL last year had 21 or less points per game average.

 

I truly believe Sean Payton couldn't get 21 points per game from this offense.

 

22 teams averaged 20 ppg or more last year according to ESPN.  If we can't do better than the 23 ranked offense then he should be fired.

 

oops 21 ........ close enough.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Maine-iac

[billsfan89]

9 hours ago, corta765 said:

You need to read Cover 1's review of the game. DaBoll did what he could with his part a lot, the players execution failed and he relied on certain things like KB ISO routes to often. But the concepts in general were sound. He is going to get a lot of flak for an offense with no talent

 

There is only so much you can do with NP at QB. Honestly even if DaBoll was absolutely awful in week one (Which I don't know hard to tell by the tape) I still am not in panic mode just yet. Hopefully week 1 was just an epic disaster and not a complete foretelling of the teams fortunes this season. 

[JPP]

3 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

How much of this is on MCD though also??

I don't care who your OC is, the head coach almost always has final say.

It's why rexy had issues with his offenses both in NY and Buffalo at times.

I remember a story about when the Jets signed sparano, and Ryan wouldn't let him call anything.

He walked away from 2 years of guaranteed money just to get away from Rex after a year.

 

McD is so boring and conservative.

He makes vanilla ice cream look exciting.

I truly wonder if he is overriding creative/aggressive offenses because he wants to keep things basic and conservative.

I think McDermott is now clearly over his head.....lots of decisions whether it was him or beanie have come back in two fold and biten them in the butts......now as we all see it.....its scrambling time to try to make something out of this monumental mess THAT IS COMPLETELY ON THEM work....i truly hope both these idiots are on a very very short leash..