McBeane's way of rebuilding makes no sense

[blacklabel]

What doesn't make sense about it? They're using this year to allow their young core to gain experience. That young core is Tre'Davious White, Dion Dawkins, Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. 

 

Andy Reid, McDermott's mentor, has said, "Give me a quarterback, a left tackle, a solid corner and a pass rusher and I'll figure out the rest." So far they have their QB, their left tackle and their CB. Edmunds is a linebacker but can rush the passer. With as loaded as the 2019 DL class is, I'd expect them to find a premiere pass rusher there. 

 

Anyone feeling overly concerned about the rebuild should read this: https://www.cover1.net/2018-nfl-season-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-process/ Very well written article about how this organization is in the early stages of building their core/foundation.

 

Not everything can be fixed in one season. I'm not sure what some people were expecting this year. Did they think Beane was going to go out there and get an All-Pro at every position? Just doesn't happen. And for the crowd that says, "They shoulda got this guy or that guy" well, it's a two-way street, right? Players have to wanna sign here too. And when you have an unsettled or young QB situation, that's gonna make things a little trickier in terms of signing the high profile free agents. And I see a lot of posts about how, "They didn't even check into Player A, they didn't make any trade offers for Player B, etc etc." From my perspective, for the first time in a long time, I'm hearing the Bills pop up in a lot of discussions when it comes to free agent players or players on the trade market. They inquired about Dez, they inquired about Mack, they've done their due diligence on quite a few players over the 20 some-odd months McBeane has been in town. That's in stark contrast to former regimes who seemed to not even bother picking up the phone because they probably thought, "There's no way they'd wanna sign here so why bother?" That's not Beane. He's making calls and inquiring about players probably on a daily basis. He's very involved in continuously looking for ways to improve this roster. And it's a two-way street, right? The players they're interested in also have to want to sign here. Can't force them. They were gonna have to have a rough year in order to turn over this roster to their liking. 

 

This stuff takes time. Sustainable contending teams aren't built overnight or in one off-season. They've cleared up a mess of a cap while positioning themselves to draft players that will be the core that carries this team into the future. They go into 2019 with plenty of cap space and, last I checked, 10 draft picks in what's shaping up to be another stellar class. 

 

The old analogy goes, if you wanna make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs. This season, they're getting the pan ready, bringing out the ingredients and breaking some eggs. Next season, they gonna make the tastiest GD omelette you rotten ungrateful schmucks have ever seen!! (You're not all ungrateful schmucks, most of you are logical, patient, understanding fans who trust the process and are fun to interact with on this board.)

Edited September 13, 2018 by blacklabel

[BillsInWilmingtonNC]

McBeane knows what positions he wants blue chip players at, and he is using his top picks to fill those. He will continue to use stop gap signings to hold down the fort until he is able to draft his guys. All of the FA contracts that have been handed out have been fairly easy for us to get out of (As soon as we draft our guys).

[ProcessAccepted]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So you thought they fought til the bitter end Sunday?

 

What we are seeing is the same thing we saw under Jauron..........team plays hard until they get down a couple scores then gets discouraged and they start making business decisions.

 

Nobody in the NFL is going to kill themselves for bad game plans,  poor in-game management and poor use of personnel anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

No I didn't, but I'm talking more about improvement in that area game upon game as we go through the season. 

 

This is nothing like the Dick Jauron experience. What part of cleaning house do you not understand. We have over $50m in dead cap space, of course that is going to have an impact as to the product on the field. This year is going to suck but there is an end in sight. Let's check in and see what you are saying 18 months from now.

[oldmanfan]

It would be amusing to go back a few years and see the posts then of those criticizing what's going on now. I would bet at least 50% were calling for exactly what they're doing now.

[Heitz]

11 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

What doesn't make sense about it? They're using this year to allow their young core to gain experience. That young core is Tre'Davious White, Dion Dawkins, Josh Allen and Tremaine Edmunds. 

 

Andy Reid, McDermott's mentor, has said, "Give me a quarterback, a left tackle, a solid corner and a pass rusher and I'll figure out the rest." So far they have their QB, their left tackle and their CB. Edmunds is a linebacker but can rush the passer. With as loaded as the 2019 DL class is, I'd expect them to find a premiere pass rusher there. 

 

Anyone feeling overly concerned about the rebuild should read this: https://www.cover1.net/2018-nfl-season-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-process/ Very well written article about how this organization is in the early stages of building their core/foundation.

 

And regarding that core:

 

"Sure, linebacker Tremaine Edmunds looks like a future superstar. Josh Allen has all of the potential in the world. Last year’s draft class is already looking to be a home run, thanks to the play of Tre’Davious White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano. The jury may still be out on Zay Jones, but he’s a talented player himself. Those six players are looked at as the future core of the Buffalo Bills’ roster, and their average age is just 22.5 years old."

 

Shooting for long-term success...

 

 

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It would be amusing to go back a few years and see the posts then of those criticizing what's going on now. I would bet at least 50% were calling for exactly what they're doing now.

 

ALL YOU NEED IS A QB - NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!  UNTIL THESE JAMOKES DRAFT A QB, I'M DONE WITH THIS TEAM!!

[mead107]

Get Riley Ferguson on the phone 

[Doc]

Ask yourself this: could the Bills have done anything differently last year to ensure they made the playoffs this year, at the expense of possibly jeopardizing making the playoffs last year?  I don't and I think just going with the same old would have led to them missing the playoffs last year as well.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

Ask yourself this: could the Bills have done anything differently last year to ensure they made the playoffs this year, at the expense of possibly jeopardizing making the playoffs last year?  I don't and I think just going with the same old would have led to them missing the playoffs last year as well.

They got caught short handed in the O line.  Other than that?  It is amusing to see all the folks now clamoring that TT should have stayed given the grief they gave him last season.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They got caught short handed in the O line.  Other than that?  It is amusing to see all the folks now clamoring that TT should have stayed given the grief they gave him last season.

 

They had time to prepare for Wood and again I think the plan was Bodine since there weren't any good OC's on the market (or at least, that wouldn't have cost a ton of money).  Glenn barely played last year and was replaced by Dawkins.  RI threw them for a loop.  It would have been nice if he'd stayed sane because he could have helped stabilized that OL.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, vincec said:

Not his entire staff either, IMO. Him and his brother were the primary problems. His offensive coaches and many of his position coaches were solid.

 

Bills fan should see past good coach / bad coach by now. 

 

It's bigger than that. 

 

Here are the records since 2000:

2000 - 8-8

 

New Coach

2001 - 3-13

2002 - 8-8

2003 - 6-10

 

New Coach

2004 - 9-7

2005 - 5-11

 

New Coach

2006 - 7-9

2007 - 7-9

2008 - 7-9

2009 - 6-10

 

New Coach

2010 - 4-12

2011 - 6-10

2012 - 6-10

 

New Coach

2013 - 6-10

2014 - 9-7

 

New Coach

2015 - 8-8

2016 - 7-9

 

New Coach

2017 - 9-7

 

Average Wins: 6.7

 

The reason is bigger than Coaching:

 

1. The Bills can't find a QB, and mostly because they make the minimum effort. They've mostly taken other team's leftovers and tried them. Bledsoe, Holcomb, Thad Lewis, Fitzpatrick, Kyle Orton, Tyrod Taylor. When not taking other people's backups, they meekly tried to find their own guy: JP was the leftover 1st Rounder,  Trent Edwards was a 3rd Round backup that the Bills tried to make a starter for over 3 years, EJ was a QB taken in a terrible year, an immediate bust. Allen is the first QB that they've really gone all in on in 20 years. Bad QB play gets Coaches fired. So every 2-3 years we are starting over with a new QB, a new Coach, and all the old regimes players are flushed out, so that system fits can be found for the new Coach. 

 

2. The Bills can't draft. You look at how quickly most of their draft classes wash out of the league, with very few legitimate/legacy players that play with the team past their first contract. Xavier Omon, Derek Fine, Reggie Corner, Alvin Bowen, Ed Wang, Danny Batten, Aaron Maybin, Duke Williams, Tim Anderson, Torrel Troup, TJ Graham, Kelvin Sheppard, Johnny White, John McCargo, Nic Harris, Jonathon Meeks and on and on. Guys that couldn't even see the field because they weren't psychically gifted enough to even play Special Teams. There is nobody left from 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and so on. Outside of Kyle Williams and Eric Wood, how many staple guys really were lifelong Bills and high level players in this league?

 

3. #1 and #2 are symptoms of #3. The Bills are a conservative organization that does not innovate.  Examples of this are all over this franchise. Marv was hired in mid-phonecall by Ralph as he was seeking advice on the GM search, who then hired his buddy from Chicago, Dick Jauron, who then ran an outdated Tampa-2 with small lineman and linebackers. We got run over for 4 years. Buddy Nix was selected after "scanning a list of names" and narrowing the decision to two in-house choices which led to flipping flopping the scheme on defense and wasting 2 years worth of draft picks, "promoting from within" with Russ Brandon's influence, can't let players run the team so we cut ties with Pat Williams, Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield, Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, trying to replicate the Steelers success twice with Donahoe and Whaley, hiring Chan Gailey who was out of football, selecting Doug Marrone, in part, because of the New York connection and getting suckered by his agent creating a market, trying to recapture the 2010-2011 Jets and ripping up an established Mike Pettine/Jim Schwartz defense with Rex. 

 

And now its the same thing. Another ultra conservative Coach who wants to play 1970's football. Really all of our Coaches since 2000 have been like this, except for maybe Gailey. Like we are going to line up and run over teams with a 30 year old LeSean McCoy because we have a fullback. More punting for field position, more FGs, more throwing 5 yard outs on 3rd-8 because its better than a turnover. When are we finally going to build a top flight offense in Buffalo and not live in NFL nostalgia? 

 

We had to have this rocket armed QB at any cost. Is McDermott really going to change his philosophy from physical football in snowy-cold Buffalo to airing the ball out? If we were gifted Alvin Kamara or Tyreke Hill, would the Bills know how to use them? They couldn't figure out a flare pass to Watkins. 

 

I see no high gear with McDermott and Beane. I think they want to win games 17-14 just like Mularkey did, Jauron did, Marrone did, Rex did.  We don't want Randy Moss, he is a bad apple.....

[IDBillzFan]

20 hours ago, T master said:

The loss of 2 interior starters was the biggest loss you said that it takes the longest to get a O linemen use to his position well they thought they would still have Wood & Incog but things went south real quick so you can't blame them for having their board set

 

There will be no rational thinking here. Only second guesses and panic.

 

It's like people forgot how this game operates.

[kevnallen]

20 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

 

I think getting a franchise QB the the most important part of having a competitive team, rebuilding or not. It remains to be seen if Josh Allen is a franchise QB, but I don't fault McBeane for using a lot of draft capital on Allen. Finding OL, WRs and other non-QB positions  are less problematic. If McBeane found a franchise QB  and an all pro LB, then his plan is proceeding well. Next year we have decent draft capital and amble cap space to improve OL, DL, and WRs. The departure of Incognito and Wood certainly hurt our chances on returning to the playoffs this year. I'm not sure what McBeane could have done to help the OL without mortgaging our future. Obviously, Coleman was a miss. I think it is too early to write off Lotulelei, Murphy, Davis and KB. 

[nucci]

21 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

What's apparent is that anyone who thinks he can judge a GM this early in his tenure isn't correctly grasping how the system works.

 

His grade is an INC. And will be so for three or even four years.

 

The guy has been here for a year and a half and run one draft. Not a single player he drafted here has played more than one NFL game. It's not just early, it's far far too early.

I get your points but question the Coleman and McCarron moves that create more dead cap space...

[BillsFan4]

11 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I’m not buying McDermott’s sob story about inheriting a bad team that needed new culture. 

 

Hey Beane, it’s 2018, might want to do better than Chris Ivory and Jeremy Kerley.

17 years without playoffs. It was one of the longest playoff droughts in sports history.

Guys in the front office that kept their jobs no matter the results on the field. 

 

You don’t buy that a bad culture had developed? 

 

Do you know what type of incompetence it takes to miss the playoffs 17 straight years? Especially once the salary cap era started, which was designed in part to create parity around the league. 

 

 

I have zero issue believing that there was a culture problem at one bills drive. 

[BBills88]

Instead of blowing the team up completely, They have decided to try a smooth transition overhauling the roster with older veterans as they draft cornerstone pieces for the team at every position. I see the bills being the one of the youngest teams in the NFL in 2 years. I'm glad the drought is over but I am very optimistic about where this team is headed. I just hope we find a better option at O-Line moving forward. 

[ndirish1978]

23 hours ago, COTC said:

Insecurity....he is not a good gm. That much is apparent. 

 

Leroi making personal attacks again...smh

[formerlyofCtown]

23 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

I don't even know where to begin with this post.

Those 2 picks look pretty good.

Star is doing just what he was signed for.

Davis is a one year let's see if he can bounce back.

A 7th rounder 2 years from now is gonna set us back years or something.

Etc...

THE SKY IS FALLING AND THE EARTH IS FLAT!!!

That is your take on things.

[Elite Poster]

23 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

 

 Don't upset the homers. 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I don't even know where to begin with this post.

Those 2 picks look pretty good.

Star is doing just what he was signed for.

Davis is a one year let's see if he can bounce back.

A 7th rounder 2 years from now is gonna set us back years or something.

Etc...

THE SKY IS FALLING AND THE EARTH IS FLAT!!!

That is your take on things.

 

And EJ Gaines got injured before the season started.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

No I didn't, but I'm talking more about improvement in that area game upon game as we go through the season. 

 

This is nothing like the Dick Jauron experience. What part of cleaning house do you not understand. We have over $50m in dead cap space, of course that is going to have an impact as to the product on the field. This year is going to suck but there is an end in sight. Let's check in and see what you are saying 18 months from now.

 

 

Jauron and Levy cleaned house too.   Do you honestly not remember losing Clements, Fletcher, Spikes and McGahee when they were coming off of a fan-satisfying year one under Dickie J?   People were loving them some DJ after the abysmal last season of slop that Mularkey left behind.   Jauron/Levy just did the bulk of their teardown AFTER year one........where McDermott and Beane did most of it between the first offseason of McD and the trade deadline.    They then spent their first pick in round one on Donte Whitner to replace the capable Lawyer Milloy they released and the rest of DJ's tenure trying to replace those aforementioned players in rounds 1 and 2 with McKelvin and Lynch and Poz.   You can't get better when it takes you several years just to get back to square one for moves made in the first 14 months of your tenure.

 

And you clearly don't know how the salary cap works.    The money they had to spend this offseason wasn't some hard figure.    They could structure contracts to put guaranteed dollars into the MASSIVE vacant spaces of salary cap that they have available in coming years.    Spaces which teams normally would save a portion of for their own young FA's........which the Bills basically have none of because they traded or let walk what amounts to about a half dozen recent first and second round picks.  They had VERY little REAL payroll restriction this offseason

.

And just like with Jauron/Levy don't kid yourself that all this wonderful salary cap space is going to be shrewdly used..........it's a sellers market in free agency nowadays.    That's how they ended up throwing a pile of money at Lotulelei, Murphy, Davis, Bodine and Newhouse........potentially 5 flameouts.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And EJ Gaines got injured before the season started.

 

Active Week 1

[ProcessAccepted]

46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Jauron and Levy cleaned house too.   Do you honestly not remember losing Clements, Fletcher, Spikes and McGahee when they were coming off of a fan-satisfying year one under Dickie J?   People were loving them some DJ after the abysmal last season of slop that Mularkey left behind.   Jauron/Levy just did the bulk of their teardown AFTER year one........where McDermott and Beane did most of it between the first offseason of McD and the trade deadline.    They then spent their first pick in round one on Donte Whitner to replace the capable Lawyer Milloy they released and the rest of DJ's tenure trying to replace those aforementioned players in rounds 1 and 2 with McKelvin and Lynch and Poz.   You can't get better when it takes you several years just to get back to square one for moves made in the first 14 months of your tenure.

 

And you clearly don't know how the salary cap works.    The money they had to spend this offseason wasn't some hard figure.    They could structure contracts to put guaranteed dollars into the MASSIVE vacant spaces of salary cap that they have available in coming years.    Spaces which teams normally would save a portion of for their own young FA's........which the Bills basically have none of because they traded or let walk what amounts to about a half dozen recent first and second round picks.  They had VERY little REAL payroll restriction this offseason

.

And just like with Jauron/Levy don't kid yourself that all this wonderful salary cap space is going to be shrewdly used..........it's a sellers market in free agency nowadays.    That's how they ended up throwing a pile of money at Lotulelei, Murphy, Davis, Bodine and Newhouse........potentially 5 flameouts.

 

Honestly I just disagree with the basic tenet or your argument. I understand that there is really no way you are open to a different point of view, so I would even bother. I'll happily agree to disagree and send you on your way.

[freeagentqb]

I posted this in a different thread:

 

We're not rebuilding.  Sounds like a good idea, but we're not.

 

No, we are just a historically bad football team trying to get better.  Seen way too many "just wait till next year" posts that don't seem to ever pan out.  Sorry, but we're not that good at drafting,  picking up better players via trade or free agency, or assembling a proper mix of talent.  There is no magic wand that suggests we will do better next year.

 

So, I just watch the Bills each year and hope for the best..  I criticise them when they lose and jump for joy when they win.  Been doing that since 1960. 

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Active Week 1

 

No, he wasn't.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

No, he wasn't.

 

Per NFL.com (at least in their player game logs) but you're correct pro.football.reference doesn't show him

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Per NFL.com (at least in their player game logs) but you're correct pro.football.reference doesn't show him

 

I checked the gamebook the other day (they re-designed the site since and I can't access it anymore :angry:) and he was inactive.  There are also zeros under "G" and "GS" for him.

[MAJBobby]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:46 PM, Jerry Jabber said:

Seems McBeane is intent on gutting this roster of players from the Whaley regime and doing a full blown rebuild. I have no problems with doing a rebuild, but the way they are doing it makes absolutely no sense. Moving up and wasting draft picks on two players in the first round this past year was not a smart move. If the Bills are going to be at the top of the draft in 2019, then they could have drafted their QB of the future then instead of what they gave up for Allen. It's too early to tell if Allen and Edmunds will pan out. Both guys have the physical size and traits to be very successful. I am glad that McBeane is trying to address the QB position, because it's been neglected for way too long. Maybe McBeane liked the QB's in this draft class better than the 2019 draft class...who knows. I just think it's not a smart move to use up all these picks when there are so many holes to fill on the team. O-linemen take time to develop, so I think it would have been good for the Bills to use some of this draft capital and address the O-line early. I think building up the lines on both side of the ball first should be a teams priority.

 

It seems McBeane's FA pick ups/trades have been more misses than hits. Now, if these players McBeane are signing are just "stop-gap" players, then that's one thing, but if they're being counted on to be impact players, then McBeane has really screwed up. Vontae Davis, Star Lotulelei, Trent Murphy, Kelvin Benjamin, Corey Coleman, Jordan Matthews...not an impressive list of players. Seems McBeane was hoping somebody on the D-line would be free to get to the QB with Lotulelei clogging up the middle, but so far this preseason and in Week 1, it hasn't come to fruition. If Lotulelei doesn't pan out, that could be more dead cap money if he gets cut or traded. 

 

I have serious doubts about “The Process”

 

but not going to start airing all them just yet will make to many people upset I think. 

[VW82]

No their plan was a good one (i.e. accumulate enough assets that will allow you to pick your future captains). Pretty sure their intent is to move away from a collection of talented players (Whaley era) to more of a team building approach where the guys and chemistry compliment each other. But you need cornerstones first. The issue is did they get the right guys? That part remains to be seen. 

 

Also, I think they badly miscalculated Allen's market. I bet they could have stood pat at 12 and he would have been there. Hard to know for sure though.

 

The o line was bad luck. I'm sure they thought they'd have Richie and EWood for another year or two. That has to be a priority next off season along with WR. I have faith McBeane can find patch work solutions for the D until we can rebuild that side too. We're not nearly as far away there as week one would suggest. 

42 minutes ago, bobm said:

I posted this in a different thread:

 

We're not rebuilding.  Sounds like a good idea, but we're not.

 

No, we are just a historically bad football team trying to get better.  Seen way too many "just wait till next year" posts that don't seem to ever pan out.  Sorry, but we're not that good at drafting,  picking up better players via trade or free agency, or assembling a proper mix of talent.  There is no magic wand that suggests we will do better next year.

 

So, I just watch the Bills each year and hope for the best..  I criticise them when they lose and jump for joy when they win.  Been doing that since 1960. 

 

No man, we're definitely rebuilding. McBeane traded away virtually every good Whaley era player and brought in patch work solutions, then we used our draft capital to buy our captains of the future which they plan on rebuilding around. This is a classic rebuild.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[freeagentqb]

7 minutes ago, VW82 said:

No their plan was a good one (i.e. accumulate enough assets that will allow you to pick your future captains). Pretty sure their intent is to move away from a collection of talented players (Whaley era) to more of a team building approach where the guys and chemistry compliment each other. But you need cornerstones first. The issue is did they get the right guys? That part remains to be seen. 

 

Also, I think they badly miscalculated Allen's market. I bet they could have stood pat at 12 and he would have been there. Hard to know for sure though.

 

The o line was bad luck. I'm sure they thought they'd have Richie and EWood for another year or two. That has to be a priority next off season along with WR. I have faith McBeane can find patch work solutions for the D until we can rebuild that side. We're not nearly as far away there as week one would suggest. 

 

No man, we're definitely rebuilding. McBeane traded away virtually every good Whaley era player and brought in patch work solutions, then we used our draft capital to buy our captains of the future which they plan on rebuilding around. This is a classic rebuild.

Ok you can call it rebuilding but I call it trying to get better.  There's no guarantee that any future picks will be any good and think that history would show otherwise.  Maybe next year we'll all be saying just wait till next year.  McBeane 's doing the same as been done many times in the past.

[VW82]

5 minutes ago, bobm said:

Ok you can call it rebuilding but I call it trying to get better.  There's no guarantee that any future picks will be any good and think that history would show otherwise.  Maybe next year we'll all be saying just wait till next year.  McBeane 's doing the same as been done many times in the past.

 

Yup it's another in a long line of attempted rebuilds. But it's different from the Rex Ryan era which was mostly re-tool around veterans. All we can do is hope McBeane bets correctly on their guys. I actually like McD as a coach. Players seem bought in. We'll see if they can get the offense straightened out. Even if they're successful it's going to take at least 2-3 years to get this team back to the playoffs. They're starting from the ground up with very little young talent to work with.

Edited September 12, 2018 by VW82

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Yup it's another in a long line of attempted rebuilds. But it's different from the Rex Ryan era which was mostly re-tool around veterans. All we can do is hope McBeane bets correctly on their guys. I actually like McD as a coach. Players seem bought in. We'll see if they can get the offense straightened out. Even if they're successful it's going to take at least 2-3 years to get this team back to the playoffs. They're starting from the ground up with very little young talent to work with.

 

And they caused alot of that talent void themselves #Justsaying 

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And they caused alot of that talent void themselves #Justsaying 

 

and if it takes them 2-3years to land the playoffs again, they won't see it unless they buy a ticket

[mjd1001]

If Josh Allen turns out to be a QB worthy of a top 10 pick, then the strategy worked. 

 

The ONLY team in recent memory that has the rest of the team SO bad a franchise QB can't save them is the Colts, but even THEY ended up in the playoffs and an AFC championship game with their franchise QBs.

[VW82]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

And they caused alot of that talent void themselves #Justsaying 

 

I know, I know. But again, it was just a collection of players. The leaders of that team were Kyle Williams, Eric Wood, and Shady who are all old and either no longer here or on their way out. You weren't going to be able to build around any of the other guys we were paying, so I get why they did what they did. It's really hard to find high character leaders who also have the talent, but it's so important you get them (and we paid out the nose to do so unfortunately). We weren't going anywhere with Dareus, Sammy, et. al. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

 

I know, I know. But again, it was just a collection of players. The leaders of that team were Kyle Williams, Eric Wood, and Shady who are all old and either no longer here or on their way out. You weren't going to be able to build around any of the other guys we were paying, so I get why they did what they did. It's really hard to find high character leaders who also have the talent, but it's so important you get them (and we paid out the nose to do so unfortunately). We weren't going anywhere with Dareus, Sammy, et. al. 

 

Why because McD said so?  Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams?  What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC. 

 

Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?

 

they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED 

[SoTier]

On 9/11/2018 at 1:49 PM, Thurman#1 said:

Getting a QB high was an absolute necessity. Far from making no sense, it was the only move that did make any sense, except maybe bringing in Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins.

 

Calling it a waste is missing the point. There are very very few ways to bring in a guy with a legitimate shot at being a franchise guy. When you have one of those chances you have to go for it even if it's expensive. They had to get a guy who might grow to become the franchise QB we've needed for so long. Unless they wanted our run of prolonged mediocrity/badness to continue.

 

And yeah, OLs take time to develop. So do QBs. But it's a hell of a lot easier to draft a good OL even if you're winning than it is to draft a good
QB.

 

And yes, moving up delayed filling the holes on the roster.

 

It's worth it. Same as in house construction, building a good strong, stable foundation delays the building of the walls and the installation of the plumbing and everything else, really. But it's necessary to build that strong foundation regardless of the delay. Same thing here. It's necessary to bring in a legitimate potential QB because it's almost impossible to get one when you have a good enough roster elsewhere to consistently win eight or nine games. You never get the chance to draft a potential franchise guy. This is the only way to get it done, and also the smart way.

 

If we're rebuilding as you say (I'm not sure I agree, but put that aside), then you have to keep understanding what a rebuild is. It's not something you do if you want to have a great chance to win the year you trade up and draft your QB. You are sacrificing the short term for the long term. Which is a great idea if the long term is very successful, and true rebuilds increase the chances of extreme success.

 

What was your prediction for the year? Did you think we'd win eight or nine or ten games? People who predicted a lot of wins this year weren't quite understanding how long it takes to build consistent success when you're switching schemes and the regime before you put you in awful salary cap shape.

 

If McDermott really felt that getting a QB was an "absolute necessity", why didn't he grab Mahomes or Watson in 2017 when the Bills had the 10th overall pick?   Having won the power struggle with Whaley, he ran the 2017 draft, and he traded back to take a DB and get an extra first rounder in 2018, which is nice but a team doesn't build a winning team by missing opportunities, especially when obtaining a better QB is an "absolutely necessity", and McDermott missed a big opportunity.  

 

Of course, taking Mahomes or Watson would have eliminated McDermott/Beanes favorite excuse that they had to trade away current talent in order to move up to draft a QB.

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Why because McD said so?  Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams?  What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC. 

 

Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?

 

they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED 

 

AMEN!!!!  

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

If McDermott really felt that getting a QB was an "absolute necessity", why didn't he grab Mahomes or Watson in 2017 when the Bills had the 10th overall pick?   Having won the power struggle with Whaley, he ran the 2017 draft, and he traded back to take a DB and get an extra first rounder in 2018, which is nice but a team doesn't build a winning team by missing opportunities, especially when obtaining a better QB is an "absolutely necessity", and McDermott missed a big opportunity.  

 

Of course, taking Mahomes or Watson would have eliminated McDermott/Beanes favorite excuse that they had to trade away current talent in order to move up to draft a QB.

 

Ding ding ding ding 

[John from Riverside]

48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I have serious doubts about “The Process”

 

but not going to start airing all them just yet will make to many people upset I think. 

I think your doing the right thing and not starting with that just yet.

 

Its week 1.....it is amazing what talent at the QB position can do.....even if it is raw

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

Honestly I just disagree with the basic tenet or your argument. I understand that there is really no way you are open to a different point of view, so I would even bother. I'll happily agree to disagree and send you on your way.

 

Yes I know,  you don't have an argument you are just blowing hot air about McD getting the team to give full effort all the time and hoping people forget what they've seen in some games where they've flat out QUIT on McD because they didn't trust his coaching and personnel choices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VW82]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

Why because McD said so?  Seems Goodwin and Woods culture is fine in their nee teams?  What about Sammy seems there is no issue in locker room in KC. 

 

Ooo how is Gilmore fitting in the Patriot way?

 

they were arrogant and caused this talent void and dead cap issue and I find it weird the amount of fans giving them a pass on what THEY CREATED 

 

Sammy was always hurt, and then washed out in LA. He's been a huge disappointment, and was angling for a giant contract from us if you'll recall.  

 

Gilmore signed for 65M. Never was a leader and wasn't even that great a Bill tbh. Definitely not worth that money. It's different when you have Brady and Belichick in your locker room.

 

I'm sad we didn't keep Woods. His contract was totally reasonable and that one looks like a misfire but players also have to want to stay. It's not like we would have franchised him.

 

Bottom line, you pay your leaders that you want to build around and we didn't have any (outside of the old guard). The core of the team was old and needed a reset. It was a huge problem, and now at least that's been addressed (in theory).