Going to the mattresses: Josh Allen edition

[rockpile]

 

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

I gave my reasoning earlier in the thread. Do your own homework, njsue.

 

 

Best Reply Ever!

Edited September 5, 2018 by rockpile
duplicate.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, JoeF said:

The Cincy game was a test.  I almost believe it was on purpose (I know I am nuts).  If Daboll ever, ever put Vlad and Miller one on one with Gino Atkins or Marshall Newhouse or Jordan Mills one on one with Carlos Dunlap on a real game day-- he should be fired.  I think they wanted to show Josh what real bullets looked like.  He failed, but not miserably so--He didn't throw 5 INTs for example.

 

If you're nuts, I'm nuts with you.  I dunno about "on purpose", but if you go back and look at the play calling in the 1st preseason game vs the 2nd-4th preseason game - it seems pretty clear to me that it was NOT a game plan designed to help a rookie QB survive behind a questionable line, and it seems pretty clear to me that Daboll has such plays up his sleeve.

 

I kind of felt it was intended to send a "ok, rook, you've got a lot to learn here" message.  And I agree with being positive that Allen retained his poise and didn't do dumb sh**.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you're nuts, I'm nuts with you.  I dunno about "on purpose", but if you go back and look at the play calling in the 1st preseason game vs the 2nd preseason game - it seems pretty clear to me that it was NOT a game plan designed to help a rookie QB survive behind a questionable line, and it seems pretty clear to me that Daboll has such plays up his sleeve.

 

I kind of felt it was intended to send a "ok, rook, you've got a lot to learn here" message.  And I agree with being positive that Allen retained his poise and didn't do dumb sh**.

It's one of things I think he actually improved on at Wyoming from 2016-17. People crap over his numbers in his last season but despite having a worse line and worse receivers his interceptions went from 15 to 6.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

58 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

He has played zero snaps. 

 

Do you have eyes bro?

[Jerome007]

35 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

It's one of things I think he actually improved on at Wyoming from 2016-17. People crap over his numbers in his last season but despite having a worse line and worse receivers his interceptions went from 15 to 6.

Nice. Quite an improvement! He didn't have many near picks in the preseason,. Maybe one plus the 4th down throw it up mistake. That was unexpected and a big plus 

[Kelly the Dog]

32 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

It's one of things I think he actually improved on at Wyoming from 2016-17. People crap over his numbers in his last season but despite having a worse line and worse receivers his interceptions went from 15 to 6.

I said this at other times in other ways but I think it warrants repeating. Josh was criticized in college for being inaccurate. But there are at least three different types of inaccuracy.

 

1] Guys that just do not have the touch to throw consistently accurate.

2] Guys that have crappy mechanics that causes them to be inaccurate too often.

3] Guys with good mechanics whose mechanics break down too often which causes those passes to be inaccurate.

 

The first two are a lot harder to fix than the third. Josh has pretty good if not very good mechanics, even counting the Jordan Palmer feet too far apart observation. Because of the rush, and lack of talent around him, Josh (his mistake) let his mechanics break down too often when he tried to force too many throws or rely on his arm to get him out of trouble.

 

But that is not really an inaccurate passer problem, it's a decision problem, and he already looks way, way better at it in the three games he has played. It's completely learnable and coachable.

 

He's not an inaccurate passer at all. 

[TheElectricCompany]

17 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

Do you have eyes bro?

Sure, what's your point? 

We throw around "best ever" titles to guys who can't beat out 5 Pick Peterman? 

We all know he has a big arm.  If he can't hit a guy in stride with that big arm, which is the major worry with Allen,  it doesn't really matter. 

 

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 

3] Guys with good mechanics whose mechanics break down too often which causes those passes to be inaccurate.

 

This could be caused by panicking under pressure, or failing to read a defense quickly. 

Both of those are pretty challenging to correct. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

Yet another thing you're incorrect on. Tell me something, does it suck being constantly wrong?

 

If you picture in you mind that the poster you responded to is actually Josh Rosen himself, with that smug look on his face typing feverishly on his phone it actually becomes pretty funny.?

[Victory Formation]

Liked the fact that we swung for the fences, he may be the best QB in the draft or he may never fix his accuracy issues, either way we made big moves to land a top 10 prospect, bout time. I wanted Mayfield, Allen or Darnold in that order. People forget that Allen was projected to go #1 overall for months leading up to the draft, the guy is 6'5 240, with an exceptional arm and impressive mobility. People talk about 2018 being a developmental year but I hate to break it to everyone, it may take 4 years before we see Allen's apex, but of course I expect years of playoff football in the meantime, I am just cautious because I know it will take time and fans need to be patient. All I care about is an upward trajectory. 

[RevWarRifleman]

I liked the pick when the Bills made it.  Mainly because of  the measure-ables (height, arm strength...). Figured they could work him in gradually over this year & next.

 

But after seeing him in preseason with his coolness in the pocket, arm strength & foot speed, I was impressed. I knew we picked a winner. Sure, he's going to make

 

some mistakes in regular season games, that's all part of the learning curve. Ask Peyton Manning.

[JMF2006]

4 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Well only one of the four QBs selected is starting and thats Darnold.  So the fact that he isnt starting is no big deal.  Shouldnt Mayfield your number one overall pick have been able to beat TT who throws for 100 yards a game.

 

Allen did some things very well this preseason.  The third game was a joke due to our joke of an o line.

 

I think they are all just jealous cause hes so damn handsome!  Or so they tell me.

 

And Cornfed has a hot GF:

 

So now they are really jealous.

 

Besides they are all butt hurt because the Bills didn't draft TTV2 in round 1.

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Where we picked it was obviously Rosen or Allen at that point.  What were your thoughts on Rosen going into the draft?

 

He was my second choice behind Mayfield. I liked everything about him. Good arm, accurate, comeback wins, smart. I thought he was too reckless at times, but he had the ability to throw the team on his back for the win, which some of the others didn't.

[jrober38]

I hate when the only good things anyone has to say about a QB are how tall they are, how much they weigh and how far they can throw a football. 

 

It's usually a bad sign for how that player's career will shake out. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by jrober38

[Warcodered]

Just now, jrober38 said:

I hate when the only good things anyone has to say about a QB are how tall they are, how much they weigh and how far they can throw a football. 

 

It's usually a bad sign for how that players career will shake out. 

He's also fast.

[Real McClappy]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

!@#$ing Patriots fan. Outed.

 

Shocked this guy is still around as well.

[Warcodered]

Just now, Real McCoy said:

 

Shocked this guy is still around as well.

He has already complained about getting a warning so he is moving right along.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I'm pretty even keeled and don't get myself into Twitter squabbles with reporters or opposing fans but I've been acting out of character since I've gone all in on Josh Allen. I was among his biggest detractors leading up to the Draft but I've decided to trust the process and honestly it wasn't a hard sell. 

 

The kid is 6'5, 237, has wheels and is the owner of one of the best arms of all time. I've gotten to the point where I'm trashing 2019 QB prospects like Justin Herbert and Drew Lock. Complete bunker mentality and the National media is making it super easy because Allen seems to have crossed over from polarizing prospect to object of ridicule. The attacks seem personal and the all of the journos have gone from friendly banter to accusing Bills fans of being racists because we're not big on Tyrod Taylor. 

 

This is a pointless thread but I'm kinda loving this bunker mentality. I'm hoping we see Josh Allen sooner rather than later because I want to see our new toy in action. 

 

 

 

THAT'S MY QUARTERBACK!

 

If a journalist actually knew anything about football, they would work in an NFL front office and make more money rather than spend time coming up with click bait tactics to make a few more cents.  

 

Going into the offseason, Allen was the one QB I wanted no part of.  My top QB on the board had been Baker all season long and was on record here many times saying I thought he could be our guy, until he kept playing so well that he wound up going #1 overall.  Then as the offseason progressed, Allen really started to wow me and the shine also started falling off my previous likes such as Rosen.  

 

By the time the draft got here, Allen had moved way up my list behind Baker and I had my wish list as Baker, Allen, Darnold (And I had Darnold and Allen pretty closely ranked) and I had Rosen last of the top QB prospects.  Rosen for me just doesn't have the leadership and likability needed for him to likely be as good as some believe he will be.  For me, he is more likely the next Jeff George or Jay Cutler...talented guys that under performed to their potential due to attitude and likability issues.  

 

So I was excited to take Allen at 7, and even more thrilled we didn't have to trade next years first to move up to take a QB.  Its hysterical that the same dumb ass Journalist who felt Allen could go #1 overall, but also all knew he would go top 10, are now slamming the pick as if it was stupid.  They just write lazy stuff for the purpose of getting clicks.  

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He's also fast.

 

You get my point.

 

It's usually better to hear about how a guy throws the ball, how productive he is, or how he's a winner.

 

The "he's big, strong, fast and has a rocket arm" usually means jack squat without some actual feel for the game. 

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You get my point.

 

It's usually better to hear about how a guy throws the ball, how productive he is, or how he's a winner.

 

The "he's big, strong, fast and has a rocket arm" usually means jack squat without some actual feel for the game. 

He throws it far and fast is that better? Also he is a winner I don't know what else you can say about taking a team with a streak of losing season (2-10 before he started) and having winning season every year he starts.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He throws it far and fast is that better? Also he is a winner I don't know what else you can say about taking a team with a streak of losing season (2-10 before he started) and having winning season every year he starts.

8-5 for a conference that would be worse than the MAC if it didn't have Boise. Super impressed.

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

8-5 for a conference that would be worse than the MAC if it didn't have Boise. Super impressed.

Yes and they lost two of those when he was injured one of which they definitely wouldn't of with him.

[colin]

allen is the future.

 

I suspect this is gonna turn out like Houston, where peterman flames out early, maybe game one, and allen comes in and wows us.

 

but the rookie doesn't get hurt in this movie.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, stony said:

 

Cage match.  SkyDiver's defense of all things Bama vs your irrational hatred of Allen. 

 

Too close to call. 

 

I’ll go sky diver. He is the lord of all trolls 

[DuckyBoys]

Allen was the only qb I wanted out of the four. People calling him a bust when hasn't taken a regular season snap is crazy.  Fact is the talking heads decided Allen is a bust so they will stick with that.  From the tiny bit I have seen he looks better than advertised.   Better to aim for the moon and whiff than more Tyrod

[FearLess Price]

 

Drop the race card bro. The more attention you give to it the more momentum it picks up. Just leave it alone. There's racists in every fan base lets not be naive.  

 

Josh Allen is a big boy. He can handle the criticism OP, you dont need to hold his hand   

Tyrod's gone, the more you trash him the more you sound like a petty ex girlfriend.

 

He wasnt good enough for what this regime has in mind, and his limitations on the field make it difficult to scheme for him if youre an old geaser OC like Dennison. Tyrods my bro but I think Mayfield will get to start once theyre out of playoff contention. Haley can def scheme for both of them better than Dennison could dream. Dennison needs a QB like Kirk Cousins to succeed, and even then; his run plays and player selection is trashhhh.

[bobblehead]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you're nuts, I'm nuts with you.  I dunno about "on purpose", but if you go back and look at the play calling in the 1st preseason game vs the 2nd-4th preseason game - it seems pretty clear to me that it was NOT a game plan designed to help a rookie QB survive behind a questionable line, and it seems pretty clear to me that Daboll has such plays up his sleeve.

 

I kind of felt it was intended to send a "ok, rook, you've got a lot to learn here" message.  And I agree with being positive that Allen retained his poise and didn't do dumb sh**.

It absolutely was a “come to Jesus” move that Mc D did with starting Allen. Before the bengals game, one of the sideline reporters was talking about how McD would occasionally have to tell Josh things like “at some point you will get your ass kicked” to ground him a bit. 

 

The bengals game wasn’t an exposure to game planning but it was an exposure to the speed of the game. There was, IMO, no plan to ever start Allen day 1 and that game was to show Josh what was what.  And I’m glad they did it. That game will do more for Allen than lighting it up against Cinci ever would have. 

 

And yes, it’s weird how much people hate him. Every time someone makes a rational observation someone immediately posts something in direct contrast to it. 

 

I just saw cowherd say Allen looked rattled and overwhelmed vs cinci.  Allen was alot of things in that game but overwhelmed and rattled was no where near what was going on. He’s not ready, but he’s got more stones and composure and talent than anyone that’s been in here in a long time . 

Edited September 6, 2018 by bobblehead

[stony]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

I’ll go sky diver. He is the lord of all trolls 

Ha! Smart call. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, bobblehead said:

It absolutely was a “come to Jesus” move that Mc D did with starting Allen. Before the bengals game, one of the sideline reporters was talking about how McD would occasionally have to tell Josh things like “at some point you will get your ass kicked” to ground him a bit. 

 

Can you say more about this sideline reporters/McD grounding talk thing?

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, JoeF said:

I have seen several reports, including from local beat writers, that Josh was "benched" for Nate or "lost the job".  Ridiculous in my opinion. 

 

He started as the third string QB with little shot to start the season and made it a tough decision.  I too am all-in on him. 

 

He seems like a great kid who has a wonderful work ethic.  He has been rejected before...not getting any looks especially from Fresno State where he wanted to go; he was panned through the draft process--all he has done is ignore the critics and improve not just steadily but by leaps and bounds.  

 

The Cincy game was a test.  I almost believe it was on purpose (I know I am nuts).  If Daboll ever, ever put Vlad and Miller one on one with Gino Atkins or Marshall Newhouse or Jordan Mills one on one with Carlos Dunlap on a real game day-- he should be fired.  I think they wanted to show Josh what real bullets looked like.  He failed, but not miserably so--He didn't throw 5 INTs for example.

 

I wish Nate Peterman all the success in the world.  If he shows something, the Bills have another tremendous asset.  However, Josh has skills - mobility, arm, pocket savvy, speed that Nate will never have.   Let Josh watch as long as Nate is not losing us games with turnovers or poor production...but make no mistake, Josh Allen is the future of this franchise.

 

 

The auburn kid was the real havoc maker.  He had 3 sacks.

Hated the pick when it happened.  Happy with it now.  Not sure if he’s going to be the better than Rosen, but he’s a helluva lost more exciting and he’s a fun toy.  Way more fun than the other guys.  Just hope he can learn to read the D and get rid of the ball.

[JTown]

10 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

How bad does the roof have to cave in before they let him play? Learning from the bench is stupid. The only thing you learn is how to hold a clipboard and where the Gatorade is.

 

I disagree 100 percent.

 

Our weakest link is our O-line.  Do you really want JA, the future of our franchise, in there getting killed every week?

 

Ask Andrew Luck how he likes playing behind an inferior O-line.  Luck has repeatedly been destroyed because of the lack of talent on his line and his inability to slide when needed (something JA needs to learn as well).

 

IMO,  I hope JA does not have to take a snap in a game this year until the line proves they are capable of providing adequate pass protection.

 

Unfortunately, idiotic Bills fans will chanting for him the first mistake NP makes.

 

?

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I’m definitely ready to be hurt again

[bobblehead]

54 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you say more about this sideline reporters/McD grounding talk thing?

I saw it on the broadcast of the bengals game . I’d have to watch it again, it was at the start of the game.  Not sure who- maybe Pam Oliver?  It seemed clear that they were almost expecting josh to struggle at some point.  Personally I think I’d rather see him go through that in the pre season first. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by bobblehead

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

I saw it on the broadcast of the bengals game . I’d have to watch it again, it was at the start of the game.  Not sure who- maybe Pam Oliver?  It seemed clear that they were almost expecting josh to struggle at some point.  Personally I think I’d rather see him go through that in the pre season first. 

 

Process, baby!!! 

[MJS]

I didn't want Josh Allen. The only 1st round QB I wanted even less than him was Jackson.

 

But what do I know? I don't even watch college ball, much less Wyoming.

 

I do know that I have respect for coach McDermott and GM Beane. They seem smart, hardworking, and like they have a plan.

 

I'm not completely on the Allen train, but I sure hope he does well and I was wrong about him.

 

P.S. That TD throw from Allen where he dodged defenders and stepped up in the pocket was a thing of beauty. More of that please!

Edited September 6, 2018 by MJS

[transplantbillsfan]

Love it!

 

Feel the exact same way!

 

Loathed the pick. Got viscerally upset.

 

Researched and studied him.

 

Grew to really be excited about the pick.

 

Now I just want him to play. Anxiety fills me with Peterman starting Sunday. I'd be excited about Allen.

 

But let him sit on the bench while the OL sorts itself out a bit. Then let him come in and take the league over

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

How bad does the roof have to cave in before they let him play? Learning from the bench is stupid. The only thing you learn is how to hold a clipboard and where the Gatorade is.

 

 

Yeah, learning from the bench didn't work for Brees, Rodgers and Brady, the three finest QBs in the game, so why should we ...

 

Oh, wait. It did.

 

There's a reason why virtually all coaches believe that spending time on the bench helps guys. And the reason is because it does work. Same reason why pilot schools don't say, "!@#$ it, they don't need simulator time, nobody learns from that, just throw 'em behind the stick of a loaded 727." It all works. Mental reps work. Time to practice mechanics work. Time to study film of NFL defences works. It all works.

 

That doesn't mean that everybody needs it. But it does mean for a rookie riding the bench that if all he learns is how to hold a clipboard he's not going to turn out to be a good NFL QB.

 

McDermott is among the people who believes that time on the bench works, and we know that because if he didn't, Allen himself wouldn't have specifically said that 

 

"... sometimes quarterbacks can get thrown in there too early and that can have a snowball effect on them during your career. So coach is going to do the smart thing." - Josh Allen

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2018-nfl-training-camps-bills-wont-rush-josh-allen-into-starting-qb-role/

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Allen still needs work with pre-snap stuff. Super smart kid so I expect him to pick it up but giving him the first few weeks on the bench isn't the worst thing especially considering we have a brutal first month.

[Buddy Hix]

We’re all Bills fans so of course we’re rooting for Allen to develop, but I would still have rather taken any other QB in the 1st.

[billybob71]

I guess I'm in the minority here but I liked the pick from the get go and I think Allen will be the best of the bunch. The Bills finally picked the right guy. I didn't want Mayfield, Jackson, or Rosen. I could have lived with Darnold. From what I've seen and observed I think Allen is gonna be good. Of course I realize I could be flat out wrong but to me he has a real chance to be special.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Mitch Trubisky started 12 games last year.

 

7 passing TD's

2 rushing TD's

7 INT's

6.6 yards per attempt

77.5 passer rating

59.4 completion percentage

2193 passing yards

248 rushing yards

10 fumbles

3 fumbles lost

31 sacks

 

Not super impressive for the 2nd overall pick in the Draft but he's received pretty good press all last year and in the off season. I wonder what Josh Allen's raw stats will look like this year.