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Why is nobody discussing the offensive line?


BigDingus

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23 minutes ago, Pete said:

Our oline has been neglected since the glory years.  Its a bunch of misfit toys.  No 1st rounders, no big FA signings.  They grab lineman off the scrapheap, throw them at a wall, see who sticks, and try and coach them up.  The Bills just traded a **** ton to get their QB.  Now let's protect them and give Josh the tools to succeed ie legitimate WRs and Oline

 

Generally speaking the O-line has been pretty poorly neglected but in 2015 and 2016 the O-line was one of the best units in the league. Glenn was a high draft pick and a pro-bowl caliber player at LT, InCog was a pro-bowler at LG, Wood was a pretty solid center and Groy a good backup for when he got hurt, Miller at RG was a 3rd round pick who played well in 2015 and 2016, and Mills at RT is a poor pass protector but above average as a run blocker. 

 

I actually think had InCog been healthy and given us one more season this O-line wouldn't be nearly as tragic as it is looking. That being said they poured the resources into the D-line instead of the O-line. They had limited resources cap wise and they made their choice. I hope next off-season they make a big play to solidify at least one of the guard spots or RT via free agency and spend a high draft choice along the O-line. 

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1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Generally speaking the O-line has been pretty poorly neglected but in 2015 and 2016 the O-line was one of the best units in the league. Glenn was a high draft pick and a pro-bowl caliber player at LT, InCog was a pro-bowler at LG, Wood was a pretty solid center and Groy a good backup for when he got hurt, Miller at RG was a 3rd round pick who played well in 2015 and 2016, and Mills at RT is a poor pass protector but above average as a run blocker. 

 

I actually think had InCog been healthy and given us one more season this O-line wouldn't be nearly as tragic as it is looking. That being said they poured the resources into the D-line instead of the O-line. They had limited resources cap wise and they made their choice. I hope next off-season they make a big play to solidify at least one of the guard spots or RT via free agency and spend a high draft choice along the O-line. 

Richie was a great lineman long before Buffalo.  We got lucky and signed him because he was radioactive.  Cordy was pick 41 by Buffalo.  Wood was a 1st rounder.  That was a great line.  Our line this year makes me very nervous.  It is our weakest positional group IMO, even worse than WR

Nothing will rattle a rookie QB like sieve of an oline.  Ask David Carr

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3 minutes ago, Pete said:

Richie was a great lineman long before Buffalo.  We got lucky and signed him because he was radioactive.  Cordy was pick 41 by Buffalo.  Wood was a 1st rounder.  That was a great line.  Our line this year makes me very nervous.  It is our weakest positional group IMO, even worse than WR

Nothing will rattle a rookie QB like sieve of an oline.  Ask David Carr

Except Allen is totally used to it. His entire career was playing with a crappy line and getting jailbreaks on most passing plays. That's a big difference. Not to mention his awareness, his size, and his agility/mobility. The guy who would get killed behind this line is Peterman. 

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4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Richie was a great lineman long before Buffalo.  We got lucky and signed him because he was radioactive.  Cordy was pick 41 by Buffalo.  Wood was a 1st rounder.  That was a great line.  Our line this year makes me very nervous.  It is our weakest positional group IMO, even worse than WR

Nothing will rattle a rookie QB like sieve of an oline.  Ask David Carr

 

Miller was a 3rd round pick as well, a fairly high pick too. They had a good veteran acquisition in InCog along with 3 players drafted in the first 3 rounds (Wood, Glen, and Miller) and their weakest player Mills at least was fairly good in the ground game. It is clear that the O-line now needs to be restocked. Dawkins a 2nd rounder in recent years is a good chip to have at LT and I do think Groy and Miller could be capable players but LG and RT are clearly areas of need. 

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Except Allen is totally used to it. His entire career was playing with a crappy line and getting jailbreaks on most passing plays. That's a big difference. Not to mention his awareness, his size, and his agility/mobility. The guy who would get killed behind this line is Peterman. 

 

A lot of Allen's bad habits (which caused him to miss a lot of "easy" throws thus lowering his accuracy) were developed as a result of him playing behind a poor offensive line. I feel like it might be best to take that into consideration when pushing him out as a starter behind a bad O-line. Do we really want Allen's NFL career to start under the same conditions that led to the flaws in his game?

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5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Miller was a 3rd round pick as well, a fairly high pick too. They had a good veteran acquisition in InCog along with 3 players drafted in the first 3 rounds (Wood, Glen, and Miller) and their weakest player Mills at least was fairly good in the ground game. It is clear that the O-line now needs to be restocked. Dawkins a 2nd rounder in recent years is a good chip to have at LT and I do think Groy and Miller could be capable players but LG and RT are clearly areas of need. 

 

A lot of Allen's bad habits (which caused him to miss a lot of "easy" throws thus lowering his accuracy) were developed as a result of him playing behind a poor offensive line. I feel like it might be best to take that into consideration when pushing him out as a starter behind a bad O-line. Do we really want Allen's NFL career to start under the same conditions that led to the flaws in his game?

He's already improved on his bad habits. Not got rid of them of course. And NFL game experience is really what separates men from boys. There have been ten plays already, in his three quarters of play, that showed he had an awareness of the rush on him. He's not taking off so early. He's looking downfield when he can as he runs. The TD yesterday was extraordinary versus an immediate heavy rush. He's mostly setting his feet well when he throws. 

 

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2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The Bills are making the starting QB decision based on what the line looks like as it's been discussed in many other threads. It's not happening and it shouldn't.  

 

Beane did address the line in UFA with the signings of Bodine and Newhouse. Additionally he drafted Teller.  

 

Allen will start or not based on his own development path and performance on the field.

 

/thread

 

Whoopty-doo!  Beane signed two of the cheapest UFA OLers available for backup money and he drafted an OG in the sixth round.   That sure sounds like he "addressed" the loss of an average or better starting center and a Pro Bowl left guard in the time-honored Bills tradition of Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon/Dick Jauron, and Buddy NIx.

 

2 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

Really? He often got hit right away. He didn't have time to hold the ball too long! Anyway, he's out for a while but I really hopes he comes back sonner than later. We need 3 QBs!

 

Reality and truth aren't allowed to interfere with the excuse-making for the Bills failure to address offensive shortcomings.

 

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

We have our QB . Every other position can be addressed in free agency. Trade draft picks now to put together a real offensive line.

 

Several recent Super Bowls have been won by guys on a  rookie QB contract. There is not time to fart around building a line for three years.  There is on reason to stockpile picks.  The QB search is over. 

 

ROTFLMAO.  The Bills aren't going to pay what it costs to bring in decent veteran OLers ... or WRs, either.  That should be obvious with Woods, Goodwin, Watkins, and Glenn all playing for other teams while the Bills have brought in mostly a group of busts, never-weres, and never-will-bes to replace them. 

 

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

We made the playoffs last year.  What is missing from 2017 that makes 2018 a rebuilding year?  Please be specific and please don't say Preston Brown.

 

Eric Woods.  Richie Incognito.

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15 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Except Allen is totally used to it. His entire career was playing with a crappy line and getting jailbreaks on most passing plays. That's a big difference. Not to mention his awareness, his size, and his agility/mobility. The guy who would get killed behind this line is Peterman. 

Allen looked very slick sliding in and out of pressure last night.  And he is very fast and athletic.  I never got the Josh Allen hype the past 2 years, now I get it.  Josh Allen has been very impressive IMO

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4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Whoopty-doo!  Beane signed two of the cheapest UFA OLers available for backup money and he drafted an OG in the sixth round.   That sure sounds like he "addressed" the loss of an average or better starting center and a Pro Bowl left guard in the time-honored Bills tradition of Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon/Dick Jauron, and Buddy NIx.

 

 

Thank you so much for the above. Sadly, it is nothing short of the truth.

 

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20 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Miller was a 3rd round pick as well, a fairly high pick too. They had a good veteran acquisition in InCog along with 3 players drafted in the first 3 rounds (Wood, Glen, and Miller) and their weakest player Mills at least was fairly good in the ground game. It is clear that the O-line now needs to be restocked. Dawkins a 2nd rounder in recent years is a good chip to have at LT and I do think Groy and Miller could be capable players but LG and RT are clearly areas of need. 

 

A lot of Allen's bad habits (which caused him to miss a lot of "easy" throws thus lowering his accuracy) were developed as a result of him playing behind a poor offensive line. I feel like it might be best to take that into consideration when pushing him out as a starter behind a bad O-line. Do we really want Allen's NFL career to start under the same conditions that led to the flaws in his game?

1

 

This is certainly something to consider.  His WR's here should be better though and hopefully the running game is better so it might not be all so bad.

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46 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Whoopty-doo!  Beane signed two of the cheapest UFA OLers available for backup money and he drafted an OG in the sixth round.   That sure sounds like he "addressed" the loss of an average or better starting center and a Pro Bowl left guard in the time-honored Bills tradition of Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon/Dick Jauron, and Buddy NIx.

 

Reality and truth aren't allowed to interfere with the excuse-making for the Bills failure to address offensive shortcomings.

 

ROTFLMAO.  The Bills aren't going to pay what it costs to bring in decent veteran OLers ... or WRs, either.  That should be obvious with Woods, Goodwin, Watkins, and Glenn all playing for other teams while the Bills have brought in mostly a group of busts, never-weres, and never-will-bes to replace them. 

 

Eric Woods.  Richie Incognito.

 

Come on man!  Let go of the Bitter Bills Face. 

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1 hour ago, Pete said:

Richie was a great lineman long before Buffalo.  We got lucky and signed him because he was radioactive.  Cordy was pick 41 by Buffalo.  Wood was a 1st rounder.  That was a great line.  Our line this year makes me very nervous.  It is our weakest positional group IMO, even worse than WR

Nothing will rattle a rookie QB like sieve of an oline.  Ask David Carr

 

 

How about we ask Russell Wilson instead?  

 

Anyway, the Bills plan should be to sit the biggest, strongest, best athlete at QB, so he can preserve his health watching 2 other guys who, in 5 seasons between them, have a grand total of 3.5 starts (Mccarran's last was 3 years ago!) get pummeled by the same line?  So he can watch Mccarron stand there and rack up the sacks and Peterman toss softballs to DBs?

 

How does this make any sense?

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3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

So you want McDermott to preach to the team that they're doing everything to win, but we're not going to play Josh as the best QB because you offensive lineman might get him killed.  So hey Nathan, we'll play you instead. :thumbsup:

 

Josh played with a sieve of a line in college and it shows..

 

he was playing street ball dodging rushers and throwing strikes on the move. 

 

I loved that corner blitz that got him, the corner looked like he was hitting a wall when he tackled him. 

 

I don’t think the line is an excuse to shelve him. Peterman feel pressure and looks like he’s running from a swarm of bees. 

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Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Josh played with a sieve of a line in college and it shows..

 

he was playing street ball dodging rushers and throwing strikes on the move. 

 

I loved that corner blitz that got him, the corner looked like he was hitting a wall when he tackled him. 

 

I don’t think the line is an excuse to shelve him. Peterman feel pressure and looks like he’s running from a swarm of bees. 

 

I had absolutely nothing to do with any of that. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Except Allen is totally used to it. His entire career was playing with a crappy line and getting jailbreaks on most passing plays. That's a big difference. Not to mention his awareness, his size, and his agility/mobility. The guy who would get killed behind this line is Peterman. 

 

Agree. He is the opposite of cool under pressure. 

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6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Josh played with a sieve of a line in college and it shows..

 

he was playing street ball dodging rushers and throwing strikes on the move. 

 

I loved that corner blitz that got him, the corner looked like he was hitting a wall when he tackled him. 

 

I don’t think the line is an excuse to shelve him. Peterman feel pressure and looks like he’s running from a swarm of bees. 

 

LOL

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2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

He's already improved on his bad habits. Not got rid of them of course. And NFL game experience is really what separates men from boys. There have been ten plays already, in his three quarters of play, that showed he had an awareness of the rush on him. He's not taking off so early. He's looking downfield when he can as he runs. The TD yesterday was extraordinary versus an immediate heavy rush. He's mostly setting his feet well when he throws. 

 

 

He certainly has improved his bad habits but Allen would not be stepping into an offense conducive to being successful esp successful as a rookie. It would be hard for almost any QB to walk into this offense behind this thin group overall and a core lacking along the O-line and WR corps and make an offense good. Asking a rookie to do that might shake his confidence and further entrench bad habits that lead to bad throws. 

 

But then again why waste starts on Nathan Peterman? At least McCarron plays a game managing style that works with the process. It might be the right move to start Josh Allen, but I worry it ends up damaging him longer term. 

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2 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

 

This is certainly something to consider.  His WR's here should be better though and hopefully the running game is better so it might not be all so bad.

 

The talent he is playing with should be better but the talent he is playing against is also much better too. The injury to AJ really hurt because now the team might be in a position to force Allen in or start Peterman who I think isn't very good (He looked great in the pre-season last year too and we know how that turned out.) I lean towards starting Allen but I would also hope that the front office tries to bring in a veteran guard if one were to hit the waiver wire as a cap causality. 

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7 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

our two best offensive linemen for starters, and considering he is saying that the oline sucks and that's why we shouldn't start allen, well, he does have a point, at least enough to be concerned.

I would prefer to see him not start either, solely based on the Oline play, but, if he starts, I won't be upset.

I'll trust the coaches on which QB starts but losing Incognito and Wood, while not ideal,  does not turn a playoff team into a rebuilding team.

 

The Bills are going to be a good team this year.

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15 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Come on man!  Let go of the Bitter Bills Face. 

 

IMO, the emperor's strutting around buck naked, and all the Bills believers refuse to admit to what they see.  

 

The Bills have been shedding expensive players via FA and trade and replacing them with cheaper, not as good players and rookies, especially on the offense, since McDermott was hired.  Contrary to the storyline from the Bills true believers, that's pretty much SOP for the Bills for the last twenty years. 

 

Lie to yourself about the Bills  if you want, but I'll continue to call them as I see them, and I see Beane as just another in a line of Bills GMs more interested in increasing team revenues than in winning games.

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1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

IMO, the emperor's strutting around buck naked, and all the Bills believers refuse to admit to what they see.  

 

The Bills have been shedding expensive players via FA and trade and replacing them with cheaper, not as good players and rookies, especially on the offense, since McDermott was hired.  Contrary to the storyline from the Bills true believers, that's pretty much SOP for the Bills for the last twenty years. 

 

Lie to yourself about the Bills  if you want, but I'll continue to call them as I see them, and I see Beane as just another in a line of Bills GMs more interested in increasing team revenues than in winning games.

What was our record last year?  What talented expensive players did we shed?

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3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

This is the combo I would like to see in PS 3. 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Teller

C - Groy

RG - Miller 

RT - Mills

 

if you dont think Teller is ready  play your best 5. 

 

Dawkins

Groy

Bodine

Miller

Mills

This. That Ducasse is an absolute train wreck out there. 

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7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

To be fair, Ducasse is pretty good in run blocking.  He just doesn't cut it in pass blocking.

 

Just rewatched the Browns game and this is pretty much what I saw. Vlad struggled mightily in pass protection, but had some nice run blocks. But, I think his best run blocks were against Browns 2nd teamers.

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On 8/18/2018 at 10:33 AM, Steptide said:

The Browns brought alot of pressure last night in the 1st team series. This is a product of not game planning. While I think the o line needs to improve prior to the regular season, I also don't think they'll be as bad what it looked like last night 

 

That is exactly right.

 

Clevelands attempting to change culture, they threw the kitchen sink at the Bills. It’s a Pre Season game for Christ sake.

Our OL wasn’t prepared for it, and don’t think for a minute our players who are penciled in as starters are playing full tilt.

Cleveland’s desire to create excitement at home, is why Greggie Williams created a more complex defense for this game.

 

 

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The O line will not be this bad all year simply because if they are this bad, they won't be playing anymore. But neither is it going to be good this year, and that's even if Teller is a whole lot better than anyone expects him to be as a rookie. The weakest link right now isn't Ducasse, it's Bodine. He was terrible in Cincy and there's no reason to think he'll get better in his 5th year in the NFL. Obviously the same is true with Ducasse too, who's now in his 9th year, but Ducasse actually rated as about average on PFF's evaluation. (I think he's worse, but there's a reason he beat out John Miller.) So ... with the exception of Dawkins and (maybe) Teller, it's a veteran line made up of below average to awful players, and the Bills focused on other needs this off season rather than on improving the O line. Playing Groy at C is the obvious way to improve right away, if only because he's been roughly average there, which is a whole lot better than awful. Maybe by midseason Teller will take over at LG, either Miller will play better or Ducasse will move back to RG, and the line may become lousy, but not awful.  Other than a significant personnel change, any other scenario is just dreaming. The line will be addressed in 2019, but not in any serious way before that.

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12 minutes ago, dlonce said:

 

That is exactly right.

 

Clevelands attempting to change culture, they threw the kitchen sink at the Bills. It’s a Pre Season game for Christ sake.

Our OL wasn’t prepared for it, and don’t think for a minute our players who are penciled in as starters are playing full tilt.

Cleveland’s desire to create excitement at home, is why Greggie Williams created a more complex defense for this game.

 

 

 

...but wouldn't you tend to expect that from Airhorn Greggy?........everything will be a statement game for Bounty Boy............

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