Josh Rosen vs Josh Allen: Game 1 Comparison

[Big Gun]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

It was a mixed bag for Rosen like Allen.  He threw some really nice balls and made one nearly fatal (pick 6) error.  Little could've had that back shoulder throw near the sidelines near the end of the half.  What was up with the snapper?  Only time will tell, but I'm happy Rosen's in the NFC.

Now amp that up 1000% for a regular season game at LA and Rosen may have looked and turned in a similar performance as Peterman did against the Chargers. Hmmmm...... interesting, how good/bad is Rosen/Peterman.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The more I see some post around here, the more I'd like to see Rosen crash and burn so I can rub noses in it.

 

So much arrogance and cocksure attitude.

 

 

[bobblehead]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

The more I see some post around here, the more I'd like to see Rosen crash and burn so I can rub noses in it.

 

So much arrogance and cocksure attitude.

 

 

 

Everyone is defending “thier guy” with the same reasoning, hilarious. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Injury potential is tough to predict - players of all sizes get seriously hurt in the NFL. 

I believe 5 were drafted this year, and 3 of those were day 3 picks. UCLA was a bad Pac-12 team last year. I think you’re overstating things. And whether Allen was “great” at Wyoming is up for debate.

 

I did some construction work in college.  We had a couple guys working who looked “frail” - scrawny little bodies.  We had an ex-competitive swimmer who looked like he’d be a fantastic worker - 6’3”, chiseled, big strong shoulders, cut arms, had to get special jeans to go over his quads (he said)

 

Guess who was still working hard at the end of the day, never injured.  Guess who was “sandbagging” halfway through the afternoon and missed time (back, shoulder, etc)

 

Size and bulk do not equal durability and toughness.  I believe the Navy Seals have also proven this over the years.

[Rufridr101]

Fragile and slow not a good combination for nfl

[Jerome007]

I watched some of Mayfield's play, and the dude is already savvy and a leader. Doesn't look anything special physically but that matters little for some very successful QBs. I'm still buzzing from Allen's performance though. And all 3 QB plays. And AT LAST, some creativity on offense, which you don't even expect in preseason.

[artmalibu]

I think that what sold McBean on Allen was not the the football ability as much as the type of guy that they were getting.  Being big, fast, strong, and smart were just bonuses.  After all Rosen is a great prospect...

[26CornerBlitz]

Josh Rosen shows signs of potential in first NFL action

Josh Rosen had to wait until Sammy Sleeves completed his one drive before Rosen got his first crack at NFL competition.

 

He didn't set the world on fire in the Cardinals' 24-17 win over the Los Angeles Chargers. But he showed some small signs Saturday that he might have a productive career in his future.

 

Playing with the second-string linemen for the majority of his stint, Rosen was subjected to constant pressure, but rarely crumbled. The rookie felt and evaded pressure, escaping the pocket before resetting and completing his best pass of the night, a 21-yard strike to tight end Gabe Holmes.

 

Rosen also stood tall in the pocket late in the first quarter, releasing while getting slammed and completing his first pass as a Cardinal to Christian Kirk.

 

Frankly, it seemed as though those years spent under duress at UCLA benefited him in his first game as a professional. Sure, Rosen missed a target here and there, but he also completed multiple passes on plays that began with poor snaps from backup center Daniel Munyer and ended with Rosen getting hit, or grabbed by someone wearing a different-colored jersey.

[WhickedWilliams]

7 hours ago, BuffaloButt said:

Josh Rosen Gm 1 Stats:

6-13 41 yds 0 TD, 0 Int

 

Josh Allen Gm 1 Stats:

9-19 116 yds 1 TD, 0 Int

 

Initial impression is Rosen looked like an average rookie, nothing special about his game.  He looks a little frail for a QB especially compared to Allen.

 

I'm feeling a little better after seeing these two play part of a game.  I think the Bills made the right choice in the draft but I was originally thinking they were going for Rosen.

 

Josh Allen while inaccurate on some plays, just seems to have the physical gifts that really stand out over Rosen.  Time will tell but I can see why the Bills are hopeful with Allen based on his physical stature and how he fires the ball.  Let's hope he develops into our guy of the future!  

 

Go Bills!!

 

I also felt positive they were targeting Rosen in the draft 

[MAJBobby]

From a guy that wanted Rosen. If I compare these two games Allen played better. 

 

Here is what I saw from Rosen. 

 

Mechanics - still elite and smooth 

 

Pocket Presence - ability to slide and create space is there. However the actual escapability is not. Allen got out of situations to keep play alive that would have resulted in Rosen getting sacked. 

 

Ball placement - This was something that popped up time to time at UCLA but not like last night. Throws where High, Behind for most of the night. 

 

 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

21 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

 

Everyone is defending “thier guy” with the same reasoning, hilarious. 

 

 

 

 

 

Rosen was my guy all pedraft I was upset we took Allen over him. However when we did I said I would give Allen time and have his back. He hasn’t let me down yet. So far through the mini camp, training camp and first game I can see why Mcbeane took Allen over Rosen. Watched all his throws again and stand by my statement. His Ball placement wasn’t good. Should of had pick 6 on one (which simiar to some of his ints at UCLA) had a completion in the intermediate range where the ball was at his foot. If he lead him better would of been a huge play. The another vertical pass into two defenders and hit one defender on the should. On top of that, the dude needs a clean pocket, he really can’t make something out of nothing

[SCBills]

Somewhat similar to Allen’s circumstances in PG1.  Allen gets the edge for having a TD and pushing the ball down the field. 

 

-Had one terrible throw, as did Allen.  Difference being Allen’s was on a 4th down. 

 

-Like Allen, he faced serious pressure on some throws.  

 

-Like Allen, he didn’t have wide open WRs running around the middle of the field.  

 

I like what ive seen from all 4 top QBs so far.  

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

After watching Rosen’s passing downs, it’s probably prudent to point out that the Cardinals’ offensive line in pass protection was atrocious. For instance, Rosen was blasted in the face up the middle on his first completion. OP decided not to mention this, but since Allen’s misses were excused away by many here as due to poor protection, I think it’s appropriate to mention.

 

Agreed.

 

-Both QB suffered from atrocious play at center and when I say “atrocious”, I mean “what are those guys doing wearing NFL jerseys?”

-Both QB suffered from some poor WR/TE play - we’ve already covered Foster looking over his shoulder for the ball and quitting on a route, some drops.  I thought Rosen’s second throw the TE should have had it - the TE was in traffic but that’s the job of a TE, be a big target and always open 2 ft over his head.  Rosen’s throw that bounced off the defender’s helmet, looked like It could have been a route running mistake.  Or it could have been messed-up timing from the snap and the DL jailbreak.

 

Overall, I thought Daboll’s play designs did a better job of helping Allen and the OL by keeping the D on their heels just a little bit.  With Rosen, the opposing D was just pinning their ears back and going for the kill.

 

Allen has wheels and is a real threat to run, but he showed better ability to move around in the pocket and step up to evade than I was expecting.  Must be working on that.

Rosen is not a real threat to run, but he showed more mobility and more ability to reset quickly and throw accurately on the run than I was expecting.  MBWOT.

 

I did not see the ball placement issues with Rosen that another poster commented on.  I saw him make a close-in throw to a TE that had to be high to avoid being batted.  He had a couple throws to WR where it looked like some kind of route miscommunication or the ball was put exactly where it had to be to avoid the defender having a play, and the WR didn’t do his part.

 

I thought Allen’s ball placement could have been better a handful of times, but I was pleasantly surprised a couple of times by how pinpoint he was.

 

In general, I thought Allen made good decisions with the ball.  His decision making was ahead of where I expected it to be.  Daboll’s play calls and design may be a factor.

In general, I thought Rosen made some poor decisions with the ball - one that was Peterman-like for WTF!!!!@#$%#! and should have been pick-6.  I think he may be the sort of QB you have got to give an OL, which is to be truthful, most QB.  But the play calling and scheme looked very very vanilla.

[Cash]

4 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

I believe 5 were drafted this year, and 3 of those were day 3 picks. UCLA was a bad Pac-12 team last year. I think you’re overstating things. And whether Allen was “great” at Wyoming is up for debate.

 

One of my main anti-Allen arguments pre-draft was basically, "if he's so good, why didn't he put up good numbers against bad competition, a la Flacco or Roethlisberger?" I get that his teammates were really bad or whatever, but I would hope that a top 10 QB would be capable of elevating a poor team. Especially since our team (for now) has very little talent on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

I was was a big Rosen proponent before the draft, but it's over now, so I'm not following him in the preseason. Hopefully the Bills were right and I was wrong. Either way, I'm not into driving myself crazy with what ifs. 

 

As for Allen's debut, that didn't change anything for me. We already knew he was capable of flashes of greatness on individual plays. We still don't know if he's capable of consistent goodness the rest of the time. There were several stinkers in there with the good throws. His first throw was an EJ Special - receiver had his man beat deep; throw was uncatchable out of bounds. EJ made some nice plays from time to time, too. 

 

But obviously it's still very early, and there's plenty of time for Allen to improve. Hopefully he does!

[Trogdor]

3 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Rosen was my guy all pedraft I was upset we took Allen over him. However when we did I said I would give Allen time and have his back. He hasn’t let me down yet. So far through the mini camp, training camp and first game I can see why Mcbeane took Allen over Rosen. Watched all his throws again and stand by my statement. His Ball placement wasn’t good. Should of had pick 6 on one (which simiar to some of his ints at UCLA) had a completion in the intermediate range where the ball was at his foot. If he lead him better would of been a huge play. The another vertical pass into two defenders and hit one defender on the should. On top of that, the dude needs a clean pocket, he really can’t make something out of nothing

He made something out of nothing for 3 years. UCLA and now Arizona have terrible offensive lines. He made two great passes that only his receiver could get on the outside that were dropped. He had one low pass that was a completion. I think if Allen had made those throws you would be defending him and blaming the WRs. Rosen's ball placement looked great. He isn't our QB, but that doesn't mean we can just make **** up when the video proof is right there. 

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Are we going to have a thread every week about this for the next 15 years?  Each are rookies that have played one pre-season game.  Each did some good and not so good things.  And in another revelation water is wet.

 

Bills fans are really insecure 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Bills fans are really insecure 

 

What’s Your Point?

[Trogdor]

4 minutes ago, Cash said:

I was was a big Rosen proponent before the draft, but it's over now, so I'm not following him in the preseason. Hopefully the Bills were right and I was wrong. Either way, I'm not into driving myself crazy with what ifs. 

 

If Bruce Banner's trick is that he's always angry, then mine for being a Bills fan is that I'm always miserable. In all seriousness, I hope this works out for you because I haven't mastered it yet. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Rosen was my guy throughout the draft process. I wasn’t happy with the selection of Allen over Rosen. It’s not that I didn’t see Allen’s talent; I feared his floor. Time will tell I guess but I sure hope that I’m wrong. So far I’ve been happy with Allen’s development.

[Cash]

1 minute ago, Trogdor said:

 

If Bruce Banner's trick is that he's always angry, then mine for being a Bills fan is that I'm always miserable. In all seriousness, I hope this works out for you because I haven't mastered it yet. 

Hahaha, there was a time when I would've been obsessively following every snap of Rosen's to see if I was really right or wrong. Now, I like to think I have the wisdom to not care. I mean, I can't do anything about it either way, so I might as well focus on something else. If in 2-3 years Rosen is a confirmed star and Allen's a confirmed bust, I probably won't be this mellow, but for now, why worry about it?

[Bangarang]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What’s Your Point?

 

Some people need to be told and tell others that we made the right decision. It’s been one preseason game but given how polarizing the selection of Allen was, we can’t moss this opportunity to prop him up over Rosen. 

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Rosen was my guy throughout the draft process. I wasn’t happy with the selection of Allen over Rosen. It’s not that I didn’t see Allen’s talent; I feared his floor. Time will tell I guess but I sure hope that I’m wrong. So far I’ve been happy with Allen’s development.

 

Right there with ya

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

After watching Rosen’s passing downs, it’s probably prudent to point out that the Cardinals’ offensive line in pass protection was atrocious. For instance, Rosen was blasted in the face up the middle on his first completion. OP decided not to mention this, but since Allen’s misses were excused away by many here as due to poor protection, I think it’s appropriate to mention.

The difference is one of them had atrocious pass protection in college and actual NFL caliber targets and the other one didn’t so when they got to the NFL one of them struggle much more than the other

[bobobonators]

6 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It looked like Rosen was a bit flustered for a moment, resulting in the delay of game. He made some great throws, though. Took some hits and didn't break in half, much to the surprise of many here...

 

He’ll break in half eventually. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

24 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Bills fans are really insecure 

 

And some are inherently miserable and pessimistic.

 

[BillsBytheBay]

7 hours ago, NickelCity said:

Honestly, I was impressed by all of the top four quarterbacks' debuts. I think it's going to be a special draft class. I'm not sure who will separate themselves, despite the wild hyperbole on here, but it will be fascinating to watch. God I hope it's Allen. Loved his pocket presence, demeanor, and conviction with throws. Like others have said man do I have to see him without the 3s. Rosen also played his game well, save for one truly bad read. 

Football can only benefit from a good crop of QBs.  Personally I'm excited about the games and comparisons between them for years to come.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

2 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

His “mental makeup”? I’ll bite - what exactly do you mean by this? 

 

Edit — if you mean the concussions then that’s fair I suppose.

I think he's questioning Rosen's commitment to football.  He has certainly made it seem like he would be equally happy doing other things with his UCLA education.

[jr1]

I was impressed with Allen's scrambling ability

[Victory Formation]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

He made something out of nothing for 3 years. UCLA and now Arizona have terrible offensive lines. He made two great passes that only his receiver could get on the outside that were dropped. He had one low pass that was a completion. I think if Allen had made those throws you would be defending him and blaming the WRs. Rosen's ball placement looked great. He isn't our QB, but that doesn't mean we can just make **** up when the video proof is right there. 

Didn't Kolton Miller OT go like 15 overall? And then Scott Quessenbury went midround too. He had at least 2 future NFL draftees on his OL.

[Rico]

7 minutes ago, jr1 said:

I was impressed with Allen's scrambling ability

Me too, I can't stand immobile statues with guns for an arm like Bledsoe. JA's pocket presence on Thursday was most impressive with all the scrubs he was playing with.

[JoPar_v2]

11 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

I think he's questioning Rosen's commitment to football.  He has certainly made it seem like he would be equally happy doing other things with his UCLA education.

And yet he’s chosen to risk his health to play football, even with a documented history of concussions already. Seems pretty committed to me. But hey the guy has interests and opinions that aren’t exclusively about the game so he must have one foot out the door already right?

[DriveFor1Outta5]

1 hour ago, Cash said:

 

One of my main anti-Allen arguments pre-draft was basically, "if he's so good, why didn't he put up good numbers against bad competition, a la Flacco or Roethlisberger?" I get that his teammates were really bad or whatever, but I would hope that a top 10 QB would be capable of elevating a poor team. Especially since our team (for now) has very little talent on the offensive side of the ball. 

 

I was was a big Rosen proponent before the draft, but it's over now, so I'm not following him in the preseason. Hopefully the Bills were right and I was wrong. Either way, I'm not into driving myself crazy with what ifs. 

 

As for Allen's debut, that didn't change anything for me. We already knew he was capable of flashes of greatness on individual plays. We still don't know if he's capable of consistent goodness the rest of the time. There were several stinkers in there with the good throws. His first throw was an EJ Special - receiver had his man beat deep; throw was uncatchable out of bounds. EJ made some nice plays from time to time, too. 

 

But obviously it's still very early, and there's plenty of time for Allen to improve. Hopefully he does!

Agree, but I feel much more positive about Allen’s future now than I did after the draft. He has already shown the ability to learn, make quick reads, and lead his team. The more we see from Allen as a pro, the less we’ll care about his college career. His less than stellar college career has always been concerning to me as well.

 

Allen did many things in his debut to silence some of my concerns. However, fans seem to be most excited about his incredible arm strength. Bills fans have instantly fallen in love after seeing his arm strength first hand. Anyone who watched him play in Wyoming wouldn’t be in such awe. Everyone knew that he possesses a cannon for an arm. Arm talent is what got him drafted so highly. Allen’s NFL future will be determined by his ability to improve accuracy, and consistently make good decisions. 

 

I’m pleased that his debut wasn’t a disaster. That gives me hope he has the ability to keep improving.    I’m now cautiously optimistic about Allen. I just haven’t fallen in love because I saw his arm strength in a Bills uniform. His success will be determined by much more than arm strength. If he continues to improve, we might finally have a franchise QB. Improvement will be the key to Allen’s success. Arm strength can’t be used as an asset before learning other areas of the game. 

22 minutes ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

I think he's questioning Rosen's commitment to football.  He has certainly made it seem like he would be equally happy doing other things with his UCLA education.

How many of us would be equally happy (or more so) working different careers? That fact isn’t exclusive to being devoted to ones current career.  I’ve never understood this anti-Rosen argument. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Patriot Killa]

12 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Didn't Kolton Miller OT go like 15 overall? And then Scott Quessenbury went midround too. He had at least 2 future NFL draftees on his OL.

Both were vastly overdrafted if you ask me.

[TigerJ]

I agree with the OP.  I'm happy with the QB Buffalo drafted.  However, one preseason game apiece is far too small a sample size to make any kind of valid assessment.

[Rufridr101]

No way Josh Rosen can withstand hits of a 16 game season also isn't athletic enough to avoid hits he plays similar to Philip rivers but river's has the frame to play that way

[eball]

I watched the "every throw by Josh Rosen" clip and it did look like the Cardinals' OL is terrible.  He made one really nice back shoulder throw and completed some short stuff, and as noted above he threw one pass that should've gone back for 6 the other way.

 

Having now seen Lamar Jackson twice, and Darnold, Mayfield, Allen, and Rosen once, I'm comfortable saying Allen and Mayfield had the most impressive debuts.  Darnold's completion percentage was higher but he didn't make any "wow" plays.  Jackson is going to struggle and is more of a project than the others.

[Victory Formation]

9 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Both were vastly overdrafted if you ask me.

I thought so too, but not overdrafted the point of absurdity, still drafted in the appropriate round or thereabouts.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, NewDayBills said:

I thought so too, but not overdrafted the point of absurdity, still drafted in the appropriate round or thereabouts.

Agreed, I seen Miller as 2nd round pick and was very surprised that Gruden(I think it was the Raiders who took him?) made that pick.

[Jaywrizzo]

8 hours ago, Paulus said:

Dude, Allen was the best QB in the draft. Darnold is a close second. 

Hahahahahahaha....Bills fan

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Unfortunately, Rosen is the type of player who won't last long if they keep trotting him out there with no protection.  He doesn't have the build or mental makeup to take a ton of hits.

Yeah....bcuz Aaron Rogers is built like Cam.....or Brady for that matter. Your comment holds no weight.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Jaywrizzo

[Ramza86]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Good point. One bad decision that should have been picked.  Looked pretty good other than that with excellent throws mixed in.

 

 

 

I would compare this to Allen. That team did Rosen zero favors. 

 

I liked what I saw from the kid. That would be pick 6 wasnt too pretty though.

[RiotAct]

6 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

 

A question I had going into the draft is how Rosen would fair with a weaker supporting cast than he had at UCLA. How many UCLA players got drafted? 7? 8? Josh Allen had nobody at WYO and he did great with nobodies, that's the difference.

 

Wait until Allen has McCoy and Benjamin, they are 1,000x better than anything he's ever had.

unfortunately, most defenses he’ll be facing are also 1000x better than anything he’s ever faced.