Joe B: Adolphus Washington has played poorly in TC and may be cut

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

23 hours ago, Commonsense said:

Is this the appropriate time to bump an old thread so we can tar and feather the Whaley defenders?

Every time we release one of Whaley's draft picks we get better. Whaley and Russ are the main reasons for 17 years of crap. 

[SoCal Deek]

31 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

Close but not quite right. They have three QBS in camp. They chose all three of them. If none of them pan out...they will not survive, but we won’t know that for at least two or three more years.

[YoloinOhio]

11 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Every time we release one of Whaley's draft picks we get better. Whaley and Russ are the main reasons for 17 years of crap. 

An angel gets its wings?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

I have a different perspective from you on the cost paid to get Allen. This brain trust was all in on getting a franchise qb in this draft. It started with last year's trade with KC to move down to get an extra first round pick. There was also the trade of Cordy Glenn to Cincinnati to move up the board. The Bills dealt Watson to LA Rams to get a second. When all the trade deals are calculated we used the extra picks that we acquired to put ourselves in a position to get our franchise qb prospect. The concluding trade in all these transactions was giving up two second round picks to make the Allen selection. So when all is said and done in the first three rounds we had three picks, two firsts and a third. The players added were Allen, Edmunds and Harrison Phillips. What makes it even more reasonable is that no picks were dealt from next year's draft. So the bottom line is we acquired (hopefully) our franchise qb and still had a full draft this year and so next year. In my opinion that is terrific wheeling and dealing. 

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Every time we release one of Whaley's draft picks we get better. Whaley and Russ are the main reasons for 17 years of crap. 

 

Funny.  That same principal applies to TSW when the 'ignore user' function is employed...

[aceman_16]

2 hours ago, SoTier said:

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

I can understand the frustration of the "they can do no wrong" garbage.  However,  Whaley NEVER committed to a QB in the draft (or really anywhere)  like Beane has. If one were to ask most knowledgeable football professionals... they would find out selling out for a franchise QB you believe in is the EXACT gamble to take. Take the sword for a wide receiver is myopic at best and negligent at worse.  Whaley is no longer here due to his selling of the farm for a wr IN A SUPER DEEP WIDE RECEIVER CLASS (which makes it infinitely worse).

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Every time we release one of Whaley's draft picks we get better. Whaley and Russ are the main reasons for 17 years of crap. 

I thought the outcome was Belicheat picks them up.  

 

my bad   

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

lol

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

They gave up some, maybe more than I was happy with,  but not as much as some fans were clamoring for spending on the top QB. 

So, I wouldn't call it too much myself at this time. 

 

Give it a season or two and my opinion on this may change. 

 

 

That was my point.  Whaley's picks have already been judged, but McDermott (who may have actually been in charge of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts) and Beane's players have a grand total of one season of NFL play.  Three plus years down the road, they may look like heroes or idiots but right now we don't know ... although certain TBD members post as if the Bills won the Lombardi last season when all they did is squeak into the playoff because Baltimore's pass defense had a collective brain fart in the closing minutes of the final game of the regular season.

[teef]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

for real?  what is wrong with you?

[Fr. Jerk]

1 minute ago, teef said:

for real?  what is wrong with you?

 

If peeing your pants is cool, consider him Miles Davis.

[teef]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

I have a different perspective from you on the cost paid to get Allen. This brain trust was all in on getting a franchise qb in this draft. It started with last year's trade with KC to move down to get an extra first round pick. There was also the trade of Cordy Glenn to Cincinnati to move up the board. The Bills dealt Watson to LA Rams to get a second. When all the trade deals are calculated we used the extra picks that we acquired to put ourselves in a position to get our franchise qb prospect. The concluding trade in all these transactions was giving up two second round picks to make the Allen selection. So when all is said and done in the first three rounds we had three picks, two firsts and a third. The players added were Allen, Edmunds and Harrison Phillips. What makes it even more reasonable is that no picks were dealt from next year's draft. So the bottom line is we acquired (hopefully) our franchise qb and still had a full draft this year and so next year. In my opinion that is terrific wheeling and dealing. 

this is exactly it.  i don't know how anyone thinks we spent too much to acquire a qb, (unless it's a disaster).  it certainly wasn't an RG3 type scenario.

22 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That was my point.  Whaley's picks have already been judged, but McDermott (who may have actually been in charge of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts) and Beane's players have a grand total of one season of NFL play.  Three plus years down the road, they may look like heroes or idiots but right now we don't know ... although certain TBD members post as if the Bills won the Lombardi last season when all they did is squeak into the playoff because Baltimore's pass defense had a collective brain fart in the closing minutes of the final game of the regular season.

everything about you is sour.  were you not hugged enough as a child?

[Bills Pimpin']

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

There's nothing to "see".  The only "differences" are:

a) McDermott/Beane are currently TBD darlings so they can do no wrong in the eyes of their fanboys;

b) there hasn't been enough time for McDermott/Beane draftees to be judged as failures.

 

McDermott/Beane's trade-ups in 2018 dwarf all of Whaley's.  They gave up so much to get Allen that if he fails, I don't think that they can survive.

Yep, they gave up so much they were able to get Edmunds 10 picks later. All they gave is what they gained with moves they made over the prior 8 months, all while making the playoffs. And they still have their first next year.

 

Your take on this sucks and you are clueless.

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Yep, they gave up so much they were able to get Edmunds 10 picks later. All they gave is what they gained with moves they made over the prior 8 months, all while making the playoffs. And they still have their first next year.

 

Your take on this sucks and you are clueless.

Dont forget we also moved up several spots in the draft and still retained NEXT years picks

 

but hey.......

[artmalibu]

8 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:

Yep, they gave up so much they were able to get Edmunds 10 picks later. All they gave is what they gained with moves they made over the prior 8 months, all while making the playoffs. And they still have their first next year.

 

Your take on this sucks and you are clueless.

 

Right, Allen was bought with house money.  

Had a better than normal draft pick wise, no 2nd but 2 #1s.

And no mortgage to pay down the road.  

 

[Bills Pimpin']

48 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That was my point.  Whaley's picks have already been judged, but McDermott (who may have actually been in charge of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts) and Beane's players have a grand total of one season of NFL play.  Three plus years down the road, they may look like heroes or idiots but right now we don't know ... although certain TBD members post as if the Bills won the Lombardi last season when all they did is squeak into the playoff because Baltimore's pass defense had a collective brain fart in the closing minutes of the final game of the regular season.

Wrong again. They will never look like idiots for what they have done thus far. Do you know how many QB's the Bills have taken in the top 10 picks of the NFL draft...? ZERO, NONE, NADA. They were able to it after taking the franchise to the playoffs for the first time in 17 YEARS, in THEIR FIRST YEARS of being a head coach and a GM, AND get the highest ranked inside LB, AND get Harrison Phillips, AND keep all of their picks next year.   For you not to realize how incredible that is is simply mind boggling. Oh and don't forget they got the team out of Salary Cap hell. They will never, ever look like idiots for doing that. Seriously, do you think before you post? 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Bills Pimpin'

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

49 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That was my point.  Whaley's picks have already been judged, but McDermott (who may have actually been in charge of both the 2017 and 2018 drafts) and Beane's players have a grand total of one season of NFL play.  Three plus years down the road, they may look like heroes or idiots but right now we don't know ... although certain TBD members post as if the Bills won the Lombardi last season when all they did is squeak into the playoff because Baltimore's pass defense had a collective brain fart in the closing minutes of the final game of the regular season.

Actually,  Beane is only responsible for a few FA's.     He had nothing to do with last season draft.  

 

with all GM's you strike gold and you strike out.   It happens to every other team in the NFL.

 

Beane and co stockpiled draft picks they didn't have then traded some of those away.     what was it 2 twos and 2 threes?   that is far better  than 2 ones this year and next like some here  were willing to fork over 

[SoTier]

23 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

I can understand the frustration of the "they can do no wrong" garbage.  However,  Whaley NEVER committed to a QB in the draft (or really anywhere)  like Beane has. If one were to ask most knowledgeable football professionals... they would find out selling out for a franchise QB you believe in is the EXACT gamble to take. Take the sword for a wide receiver is myopic at best and negligent at worse.  Whaley is no longer here due to his selling of the farm for a wr IN A SUPER DEEP WIDE RECEIVER CLASS (which makes it infinitely worse).

 

Excuse me, but where is this "committment" to a "QB in the draft (or really anywhere)" with Beane or McDermott?   I don't see much commitment other than to spend a fortune in draft picks to select a first round  QB... and then not look to improve either his protection or targets through the draft or in FA.  The Bills lost 3 solid OLers during the off season, and they've replaced none of them quality-wise.  They didn't draft another offensive player until the very end of the fifth round ... not exactly the area of the draft likely to yield an OLer or WR who can step in and help out his QB  as a rookie ... if ever.

 

It may very well be that there weren't any good OL or WR prospects available when the Bills turns came up but the Bills also have not appeared to be scouring the waiver wire, street FAs, and the other trashpiles very hard to possibly improve either their WRs or OL, and God only knows, both units could use improvement.  Furthermore, if they truly had a commitment to any QB -- or to the offense period -- why did they not re-sign either Robert Woods or Marquise Goodwin when they were clearly disillusioned with Watkins. 

 

"Commitment" to something means more than simply going out and spending resources to acquire something.  It means making sure that that something that you've acquired can be successful.  Sometimes, that means spending a lot more on supporting that thing than you originally spent getting it.  I think NFL QBs are like that because they aren't going to be successful without an OL to protect them and WRs/TEs to catch their passes -- and RBs to give them options.  IOW, a commitment to getting a franchise QB means a commitment to building a full fledged NFL offense with all the parts at least being average.  That's not the Bills under McDermott/Beane.  They dismantled the modestly successful offense with average or better components the Bills had under Ryan/Whaley and replaced it with a first round QB and 30-year-old RB and not too much else.  It's not a commitment to offensive football at all, and it sure isn't a commitment to helping a young QB become an accomplished NFL starter.

[ColoradoBills]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

An angel gets its wings?

 

"Way to go Clarence"!

 

6 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Excuse me, but where is this "committment" to a "QB in the draft (or really anywhere)" with Beane or McDermott?   I don't see much commitment other than to spend a fortune in draft picks to select a first round  QB... and then not look to improve either his protection or targets through the draft or in FA.  The Bills lost 3 solid OLers during the off season, and they've replaced none of them quality-wise.  They didn't draft another offensive player until the very end of the fifth round ... not exactly the area of the draft likely to yield an OLer or WR who can step in and help out his QB  as a rookie ... if ever.

 

It may very well be that there weren't any good OL or WR prospects available when the Bills turns came up but the Bills also have not appeared to be scouring the waiver wire, street FAs, and the other trashpiles very hard to possibly improve either their WRs or OL, and God only knows, both units could use improvement.  Furthermore, if they truly had a commitment to any QB -- or to the offense period -- why did they not re-sign either Robert Woods or Marquise Goodwin when they were clearly disillusioned with Watkins. 

 

"Commitment" to something means more than simply going out and spending resources to acquire something.  It means making sure that that something that you've acquired can be successful.  Sometimes, that means spending a lot more on supporting that thing than you originally spent getting it.  I think NFL QBs are like that because they aren't going to be successful without an OL to protect them and WRs/TEs to catch their passes -- and RBs to give them options.  IOW, a commitment to getting a franchise QB means a commitment to building a full fledged NFL offense with all the parts at least being average.  That's not the Bills under McDermott/Beane.  They dismantled the modestly successful offense with average or better components the Bills had under Ryan/Whaley and replaced it with a first round QB and 30-year-old RB and not too much else.  It's not a commitment to offensive football at all, and it sure isn't a commitment to helping a young QB become an accomplished NFL starter.

 

The plan will be to have Allen start next year full time.  At least wait to see what the OL/WR positions look like then.

AJM was brought in to start this season and I still bet he will.

Beane and McDermott are building slow and steady.

[aceman_16]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Excuse me, but where is this "committment" to a "QB in the draft (or really anywhere)" with Beane or McDermott?  ....

 

"Commitment" to something means more than simply going out and spending resources to acquire something.  It means making sure that that something that you've acquired can be successful. ...

Okay.  I didn't understand your perspective BEFORE this post....  You are a troll.

[Rico]

41 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Excuse me, but where is this "committment" to a "QB in the draft (or really anywhere)" with Beane or McDermott?   I don't see much commitment other than to spend a fortune in draft picks to select a first round  QB... and then not look to improve either his protection or targets through the draft or in FA.  The Bills lost 3 solid OLers during the off season, and they've replaced none of them quality-wise.  They didn't draft another offensive player until the very end of the fifth round ... not exactly the area of the draft likely to yield an OLer or WR who can step in and help out his QB  as a rookie ... if ever.

 

It may very well be that there weren't any good OL or WR prospects available when the Bills turns came up but the Bills also have not appeared to be scouring the waiver wire, street FAs, and the other trashpiles very hard to possibly improve either their WRs or OL, and God only knows, both units could use improvement.  Furthermore, if they truly had a commitment to any QB -- or to the offense period -- why did they not re-sign either Robert Woods or Marquise Goodwin when they were clearly disillusioned with Watkins. 

 

"Commitment" to something means more than simply going out and spending resources to acquire something.  It means making sure that that something that you've acquired can be successful.  Sometimes, that means spending a lot more on supporting that thing than you originally spent getting it.  I think NFL QBs are like that because they aren't going to be successful without an OL to protect them and WRs/TEs to catch their passes -- and RBs to give them options.  IOW, a commitment to getting a franchise QB means a commitment to building a full fledged NFL offense with all the parts at least being average.  That's not the Bills under McDermott/Beane.  They dismantled the modestly successful offense with average or better components the Bills had under Ryan/Whaley and replaced it with a first round QB and 30-year-old RB and not too much else.  It's not a commitment to offensive football at all, and it sure isn't a commitment to helping a young QB become an accomplished NFL starter.

Commitment to failure is someone who still defends Whaley.

[Capco]

Holy cow, Tremaine is huge.  That's the first time I've seen him on the field with other Bills.  

 

His body type reminds me of how you could jack up the height/weight of players on older versions of Madden lol.  

[Heitz]

32 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

Okay.  I didn't understand your perspective BEFORE this post....  You are a troll.

 

Ha - I was going to call out the same two lines! ?

 

I believe the Die Hard movie series applies to that poster:

 

TROLL HARD

TROLL HARD 2: TROLL HARDER

TROLL HARD WITH A VENGEANCE

LIVE FREE OR TROLL HARD

A GOOD DAY TO TROLL HARD

[Bing Bong]

What a horrid draft. Was so excited for all those guys

[Augie]

7 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

Why is Kyle Williams saying Washington is playing great right now. On moving the chains a couple of days ago Pat Kirwin asked Kyle how Harrison Phillips is doing and he said nothing against Harrison but the guy who’s killing it in camp is Adolphus Washington. He’s really figured it out. On the same show McDermott & Beane also gave high praise for Washington. Are they talking up Washington so they can trade him? Is Kyle part of the scheme?

 

I’m not at camp and I’m not an expert, but my point was historically Washington has been somewhat disappointing and THAT is why they made a point of getting two quality DT’s. I hope the competition, (or any other motivating factor!) has caused the light to go on for Washington. You can’t have TOO MANY good players. I’m not bashing something I haven’t even seen, and each guy gets a new chance every year to prove themselves..... for better or for worse. It’s a new year, and time to earn it all over again. 

 

 

My guess, Kyle is just being supportive, and it might help the plan, but he’s not “a conspirator”. Good teammates pump their guys up. But I pray it’s true.   ?

[BuffAlone]

By all accounts from the staff, he's done well and is not in jeopordy of being cut. I'll believe that before a Joe B observation....

[stony]

6 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

By all accounts from the staff, he's done well and is not in jeopordy of being cut. I'll believe that before a Joe B observation....

Remember all the Luden's Joe B had to take during Mario Watch?

[blacklabel]

I think another thing to remember too is Rex didn't put Washington in a position to succeed and last season I think the kid had trouble picking up the scheme so he wasn't much of a factor. Hearing Kyle say that AW has "figured it out" would kinda confirm that notion so hopefully this season he can be a big part of the DT rotation. I think when camp is all said and done, their DT group this season is gonna be Kyle, Lotulelei, Phillips, Washington with maybe Hatley or Hughes?

 

Heard on Shredd & Ragan this morning about how yesterday's camp practice they focused on blitzes. I think all three QBs said they were really impressed with the DL. The secondary has regularly been called the top defensive group with the linebacker group now getting praise with Edmunds in there. If the DL gets right, watch out. Definitely could have a top five defense this year.

[BuffAlone]

37 minutes ago, stony said:

Remember all the Luden's Joe B had to take during Mario Watch?

Yeah..lol. He talked himself stupid. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Adolphus performing well is great news. Hope he can keep it up consistently.

[stony]

2 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

Yeah..lol. He talked himself stupid. 

I don't mind him, but I've never seen someone sell a sniffle like he did that couple of days.  

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Adolphus performing well is great news. Hope he can keep it up consistently.

I have to agree.

 registered doubter if no one has taken notice. But gosh darnit i want him to play well for us !

[Luka]

I have to guess that beat reporters have no idea what they're talking about considering they aren't scouts, position coaches, etc. Pretty much just paid forum post writers.

[Manther]

On 8/1/2018 at 8:18 AM, eball said:

This is odd.  Kirwan (at camp yesterday) was praising Washington, unless I misheard.

They praised Ragland a bunch before they traded him.

 

The FO praised Dareus and Sammy before they traded them both too!

[eball]

11 minutes ago, Manther said:

They praised Ragland a bunch before they traded him.

 

The FO praised Dareus and Sammy before they traded them both too!

 

Kirwan isn't a member of the Bills' front office, the last I checked.  But I also understand your point.

[Manther]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

Kirwan isn't a member of the Bills' front office, the last I checked.  But I also understand your point.

Understood and noted.  If we can get something for him that would be great.  A 4th would be amazing, but, probably 1% chance of that?

[freddyjj]

Adolphus had to play 1 technique last year and is not large or strong enough to play there.  This year he will be asked to play the 3 technique exclusively behind Kyle.  

 

At Ohio State he was a DE who moved inside after a year.  might be an ideal 5 technique and if he doesn't pan out at the 3 spot could be traded to a 3-4 team.

Edited August 3, 2018 by freddyjj

[3rdand12]

12 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Adolphus had to play 1 technique last year and is not large or strong enough to play there.  This year he will be asked to play the 3 technique exclusively behind Kyle.  

 

At Ohio State he was a DE who moved inside after a year.  might be an ideal 5 technique and if he doesn't pan out at the 3 spot could be traded to a 3-4 team.

I had mentioned in obscurity something similar. a DE who could move inside with two DT on the line. really a 3-4 end coming out when drafted . but he got Wrexed much like Lawson  : (

 Hope he will work hard and be able to learn the techniques being taught. Has much to prove.
 

Prefer not to dump him,but rather see him come around and produce. Being trusted to execute his job.

[mikemac2001]

Kyle on nfl network brought up Washington again mentioning the 3 tech and how he has impressed 

 

 

[34-78-83]

Joe B has proven to not have the eye for evaluating football players. Might be a good reporter or wtvr, but nnnnoooo.