Top 10 biggest traitors in Buffalo Bills history

[Domdab99]

The Jaguars have had 5 playoff wins before their game with the Bills this past season, including beating the Bills in the WC round in 1996. 

 

They also destroyed the Dolphins 62-7 in 1999 in what was (I think) Dan Marino's last game.

[Jerry Jabber]

46 minutes ago, nucci said:

Ralph stripped Knox of all personnel decision making.....Cribbs wanted to get paid and Ralph wouldn't do it...Reggie McKenzie a Bills traitor....? Your list is a bit flaweed

 

Agreed about Knox. Knox got tired of Ralph's meddling and left. Otherwise, John Butler, AJ Smith, Doug Flutie and Steve Christie should be on this list since they all left because of the same reasons (Ralph's meddling). 

[dawolv]

By default, Scott Norwood should be on this list.   JK

 

 

[Fadingpain]

4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He wasn't a traitor.  Just a disgruntled ex employee who couldn't come to grips he got fired because he sucked at his job.

 

I'd add Willis McGahee to this list given we took a chance with a 1st round pick, gave him a year to rehab, and then forced his way out of here by saying he thought we should move to Toronto.

Remember when the majority opinion around here was that he was a great signing and would bring the Bills back to relevancy?

 

Good times.

 

 

[blacklabel]

Marrone had an amendment put in his contract once RCW passed away because he wanted to have his own "out" in case new ownership wanted to come in and clean house. He's tried to make himself look like a martyr in saying that the reason he walked was because he demanded raises for everyone on his staff, which was denied. It's also been rumored that he asked for a contract extension, which was also denied. The Pegulas planned on keeping him but didn't have any plans to mess with his current contract or any of his assistant's current contracts. At the time he quit, he had his agent in his ear telling him he was "guaranteed" the Jets HC job. But then he went to interview with them and evidently gave a horrible interview. Rumors I read were that when asked why he left the Bills, he talked in circles and really just didn't have a convincing reason. On top of that, the dude is straight up moody as hell and players would say they'd come off a win and come back to practice the next week and Marrone would be sulking around as if they just got blown out 58-3. Teams usually adapt/adopt the attitude/persona of their leadership and if the leadership is kickin' rocks all day because he couldn't handle a press conference then it's not gonna be a really conducive work environment.

 

I'll give him some credit for the 9-7 2014 season but I'll give more credit to Jim Schwartz and that defense. And many of the veteran players were over his "old school" style from pretty early on. The dude wanted to run the show like a college program but that stuff doesn't fly with guys who've been around the league for a while. On top of that, he was rigid to his game plans/schemes and either refused to adjust or just couldn't. Someone else mentioned how his boss is now Coughlin and that Marrone should be careful but Coughlin is one of Marrone's idols. I'm sure he's more than happy to let Coughlin run the personnel and follow whatever instruction he wants. Either way, to me, the guy is always gonna be an L-7 Weenie.

Edited July 23, 2018 by blacklabel

[atlbillsfan1975]

What about Ronnie Harmon and the drop in the Cleveland playoff game?

iirc there was stories about how he had a gambling debt and the two were related. Does anyone remember this rumor? I was like 13 and can remember bits and pieces of the story.

Edited July 24, 2018 by atlbillsfan1975

[Like A Mofo]

Jerry Sulllivan.

End of list.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

This list should ALWAYS include Dusty Ziegler and Leon Seals, period.

[1ManRaid]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Wow, grow a pair. Ralph really was cheap.

Wow, I love when people quote the entire lengthy post just to drop a one line quip.

[Original Byrd Man]

I blame the cheapskate front office for Peters being traded.  Guy signed a RT tackle deal and had a probowl LT tackle season.  Deserved a pay raise the FO wasn't going to give him.

Lynch was living in a hostile environment created by the media.  Not saying he didn't make mistakes but the media continually harped on it.  I would have looked to get out as well.  Also both players were "traded",  they didn't leave on their own.. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong".   If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security?   Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones.   Are they "traitors", too?

 

OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine.  It's disgusting. 

 

I was going to say something similar, just maybe not as disrespectfully.

 

This is the NFL. If the owners don't have to be "loyal", why do the players? This is their careers; they don't owe the team, or the fans, anything. And TBH, the Bills haven't been a very good/well run franchise for a large portion of their existence. Ralph had a reputation of being cheap, and that idea wasn't specific to fan speculation only. When Jim Kelly said "What would you choose, Houston or Buffalo?", (I hate to say it) but he had a good point, for multiple reasons. and not only was the franchise's future altered due to his decision to play in the USFL (by being terrible enough to land Bruce), but his career could have taken a much different path as well.

 

Everything happens for a reason, and you could argue that the "glory years" may have never happened, had Jim started his career in Buffalo. The glory years really was the result of a perfect storm of events that blended together, starting with Jim going to Houston, followed by drafting Bruce #1, hiring Polian, finding a diamond in Andre, etc. 

 

Now that doesn't mean that I disagree with the entire premise of this thread. Guys like Andersen, McGahee, Smerlas, etc. all deserve a place among the biggest "traitors" (maybe the wrong choice of word) in team history. But just being drafted by the Bills doesn't mean that they should swear their allegiance to the team and ride it out with them no matter what. "Loyalty" in professional football is loose at best, but if a team shows some loyalty to the player, then chances are that the player will show some loyalty in return, to some extent. But again, we're talking about the pre-Pegula Bills here, and (God rest his soul) Ralph wasn't exactly known for his widespread loyalty (WRT football; great man away from the game).

[1st&ten]

 

Will Wolford 

[row_33]

whoever brought Marv back, clearly not up to the task....

 

 

[The Jokeman]

It's taken this long for anyone to mention Doug Flutie? I'm appalled, appalled at everyone. As he was easily the biggest locker room concert we ever had. Chris Burkett also ranks up there. 

[Rico]

#1 could’ve been Ralph with all the many threats he made to move the team to Seattle etc. Thank God he never carried through with it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

WHOA! Someone had urine flavored Cherrios this morning.

 

Are you telling me none of these ticked you off when they happened? I know for me Jason Peters and Doug Marrone really got me fuming.  Also, to compare athletes to the average American is pretty laughable. Though I agree they should fall under and abide by the same laws we all do, they live in a world that is far from ours. Those tens of millions of Americans you mention, are they signed under contract when they quit after receiving millions of dollars in compensation? Most likely not.

 

I will agree with you as far as the "traitor" monikor being off base. Its more like being classless.

 

It's SoTier. It's what he does.

 

[brianthomas]

3 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

Jerry Sulllivan.

End of list.

Beat me to it haha

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 hours ago, blacklabel said:

Marrone had an amendment put in his contract once RCW passed away because he wanted to have his own "out" in case new ownership wanted to come in and clean house. He's tried to make himself look like a martyr in saying that the reason he walked was because he demanded raises for everyone on his staff, which was denied. It's also been rumored that he asked for a contract extension, which was also denied. The Pegulas planned on keeping him but didn't have any plans to mess with his current contract or any of his assistant's current contracts. At the time he quit, he had his agent in his ear telling him he was "guaranteed" the Jets HC job. But then he went to interview with them and evidently gave a horrible interview. Rumors I read were that when asked why he left the Bills, he talked in circles and really just didn't have a convincing reason. On top of that, the dude is straight up moody as hell and players would say they'd come off a win and come back to practice the next week and Marrone would be sulking around as if they just got blown out 58-3. Teams usually adapt/adopt the attitude/persona of their leadership and if the leadership is kickin' rocks all day because he couldn't handle a press conference then it's not gonna be a really conducive work environment.

 

I'll give him some credit for the 9-7 2014 season but I'll give more credit to Jim Schwartz and that defense. And many of the veteran players were over his "old school" style from pretty early on. The dude wanted to run the show like a college program but that stuff doesn't fly with guys who've been around the league for a while. On top of that, he was rigid to his game plans/schemes and either refused to adjust or just couldn't. Someone else mentioned how his boss is now Coughlin and that Marrone should be careful but Coughlin is one of Marrone's idols. I'm sure he's more than happy to let Coughlin run the personnel and follow whatever instruction he wants. Either way, to me, the guy is always gonna be an L-7 Weenie.

 

The Jets HC job was supposedly his dream job. There were also rumors that the Bills front office called up other teams to blackball Marrone after he did us like that. I can believe it. A rookie head coach that went 9-7 (with a franchise like Buffalo) would be a pretty hot commodity on the open market, and he was only able to land as an offensive line coach.

 

To the original post, I'd put Marrone higher on the list. I'd also move Lynch way down (probably out of the top 10) and put McGahee up there. Lynch was run out of town by the media/fans and never said anything bad about Buffalo afterwards.  

[metzelaars_lives]

That can't be true about Gary Anderson.  I can't find anything about that anywhere.  Who's to say he would definitely get picked up by another team?   Unless you're being facetious, which I think there's like a 50% chance of.

[Chandler#81]

[greenyellowred]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

That can't be true about Gary Anderson.  I can't find anything about that anywhere.  Who's to say he would definitely get picked up by another team?   Unless you're being facetious, which I think there's like a 50% chance of.

 

Of course you didn't find anything--it was 1982 and there was no internet back then. It was absolutely true, as a previous poster said here with more evidence. He was a clear star and I was thrilled the Bills drafted him. I watched him in practice and read news reports and he kicked butt (I lived in Dunkirk at the time, when the Bills held their training camp a mile away from my home in Fredonia). He routinely was making 50 and 60 yard field goals at the time in practice (they were all two-a-days back then), which was great for back in 1982. But I also watched (or read about) him miss every field goal in the pre-season, even though the Bills kept on letting him try an excessive amout of times so they wouldn't have to cut him in favor of Effren Herrera, who was just average. They wanted Gary, not Effren, and they were bending over backwards for him. I was only in 7th grade at the time and I didn't know why he missed all the field goals. I thought it must have been just nerves. But later on I learned it was on purpose. As the other poster said, Ralph Wilson did not pay him enough and Gary wanted out of his contract. It was rumored he had a deal already made with Pittsburgh.

 

EDIT: Here is Mickey's post, which supports my stance:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/206943-top-10-biggest-traitors-in-buffalo-bills-history/?tab=comments#comment-5190460

 

Quote

Gary Anderson left because Wilson wasn't willing to give him a respectable contract. His only way out was to get Buffalo to cut him. And yet, despite missing everything in preseason, the Steelers signed him to be their starter the instant he was cut. I was convinced that his agent worked it out with the Steelers. I blame Ralph for A) not paying Anderson what he as worth and B) getting out played by kicker and his agent. To be a traitor, you have to owe a duty to someone or something. What on earth did Anderson owe the Bills? If the Bills didn't draft him, plenty of other teams would have. He was no traitor, he gamed a system that was stacked against him and won. Owners like Wilson gamed the system to their advantage and almost always, always won. Ralph got outsmarted, not betrayed.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[Putin]

13 hours ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Yeah, lol. It is weird, but just in case, on the *very* outside chance that I decide to publish this. Though it probably isn't that good.

 

i don’t agree about M Lynch ( traitor)  

WTH were we thinking ? using our first round pick on a RB when we already had Freddie & Lynch on the roaster ??? 

[greenyellowred]

7 minutes ago, Putin said:

 

i don’t agree about M Lynch ( traitor)  

WTH were we thinking ? using our first round pick on a RB when we already had Freddie & Lynch on the roaster ??? 

 

Ok, maybe he wasn't that bad. But I am just upset since I knew we had a star, and he went on to Seattle to lead them to a SB and was regarded as the best (or close to the best) RB in the league for 4 years.  And do you mean Anthony Thomas above (the "A-Train")? Yeah, I can understand not needing to draft him, but it turns out he could have been a superstar for Buffalo like he was with Seattle (although they had a better team to support him).

11 hours ago, Frez said:

Should we mention Thurman Thomas? He took off mad and went to play for our #1 enemy at that time......,Miami! That was just weird! 

 

Yep, so did Reed, Smith, Talley, and Bennett. I'll give them a pass since they were loyal to the Bills for many years, and were near the end of their careers. I just wish Smith would've been a Bill when he broke the NFL sack record.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[greenyellowred]

I forget to mention Wade Phillips. He was fired after the Bills 8-8 finish in 2000, which was the first itme they had missed the palyoffs since 1997. Ralph Wilson wanted him to fire special teams coach Ronnie Jones, who special teams were considered among the worse in the NFL that year and also allowed the Music City Miracle Homerun Throwback against Tennessee after the 1999 season. Wade refused, and Ralph fired him for insubordination. Wade was a great coach and went on to success with Dallas, Hoston, Denver, and the LA Rams. I liked Wade, but when you disobey a direct order from your boss, what do you expect? Anyone else would have fired him too. I feel the Bills would have done much better in the 2000's with him as coach though.

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It wasn't Jacksonville's first playoff win ever..... first for a few years, sure.  And also Marrone never publicly said he felt pressured to play EJ. He said he was uncertain about the direction of new ownership.  It is fairly well speculated that the Quarterback issue played a large part and as soon as Orton said he wasn't coming back Marrone decided to go.  

 

My bad about Jacksonville in the playoffs. That's what I get for writing a post at midnight!

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[RyanC883]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong".   If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security?   Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones.   Are they "traitors", too?

 

OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine.  It's disgusting. 

 

wow, kind of an interesting/bizzare take.   You can be a "traitor" to a team/city.  Anderson may be a bad example, as noted by someone else, but others like McGhee and J. Peters were traitors.  People under contract who either badmouthed the city and/or played poorly on purpose.  

[greenyellowred]

9 hours ago, Mickey said:

Gary Anderson left because Wilson wasn't willing to give him a respectable contract. His only way out was to get Buffalo to cut him. And yet, despite missing everything in preseason, the Steelers signed him to be their starter the instant he was cut. I was convinced that his agent worked it out with the Steelers. I blame Ralph for A) not paying Anderson what he as worth and B) getting out played by kicker and his agent. To be a traitor, you have to owe a duty to someone or something. What on earth did Anderson owe the Bills? If the Bills didn't draft him, plenty of other teams would have. He was no traitor, he gamed a system that was stacked against him and won. Owners like Wilson gamed the system to their advantage and almost always, always won. Ralph got outsmarted, not betrayed.

 

Agreed. Nowadays, as you know, there is a set payscale for rookies. But in those days, you played for the team that drafted you, even if they stiffed you on the contract. Or you held out. That is how it worked back then. Others teams had the chance to draft Anderson, whom we selected in the 7th round, but they chose not. He at least owed it to play for the Bills for his first contract and be grateful he got to play in the NFL. His sandbagging was immoral and like a slap in the face to us. You accept less money because you have morals. I did. It is costing me thousands of dollars on car insurance. But I play by the rules. He could have made us a great team for the rest of the 80's and beyond. I will never forgive him. It seems like in the late 70's and 80's, everyone was blowing off the Bills (Cousineau, Kelly, Cribbs, Bell, Knox, Smerlas, McKenzie, Harmon, Burkett, etc.).

14 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

wow, kind of an interesting/bizzare take.   You can be a "traitor" to a team/city.  Anderson may be a bad example, as noted by someone else, but others like McGhee and J. Peters were traitors.  People under contract who either badmouthed the city and/or played poorly on purpose.  

 

Anderson is the perfect example. That is why he in number one on my list. See my post a little above about him, as well as Mickey's, which I posted as well.

 

Back in those days, people were loyal. People did things the right way. Anderson owed loyalty to us, since we drated him. He played games and forced us to cut him. He was greedy and let money motivate him. I have sacrificed money because I chose to play by the rules. He is a POS.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[greenyellowred]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

This thread seems to be the football equivalent of the fascist political mantra of "my country, right or wrong".   If professional football is a "business" when it comes to owners/managements replacing decent/older/injured/more expensive players with better/younger/healthier/cheaper players, why is it "treason" for players to look for better pay/better opportunities for recognition/better working conditions/more security?   Isn't that what tens of millions of Americans do every year when they quit their current jobs to take new ones.   Are they "traitors", too?

 

OP, take your stupid post and shove it where the sun don't shine.  It's disgusting. 

 

In all the relevant cases I cited, those players acted childishly, in order to get cut. They don't owe us loyalty after their contract expires, but they need to play it out when they have commited. They need to play for the team that drafted them. And as I mentioned above, players didn't switch teams in the 80's like they do now. They stuck with their teams. Now it is different.

7 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Wow, grow a pair. Ralph really was cheap.

 

He was a little, and maybe he was behind the times in the 90's and 2000's due to his age, but he is also a HOF owner who kept the Bills in Buffalo when most others wouldn't have. He made sure they stayed in Biffalo when he passed. He also lent money to Al Davis when Raiders were in danger of folding in the 60's. He met Jim Kelly's demands in 1986 and signed him to a humongous (at the time) $4.5 million per year contract. He is a great man and has my respect. I'd rather have the Bills in Buffalo than no team at all.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[Putin]

7 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

 

In all the relevant cases I cited, those players acted childishly, in order to get cut. They don't owe us loyalty after their contract expires, but they need to play it out when they have commited. They need to play for the team that drafted them. And as I mentioned above, players didn't switch teams in the 80's like they do now. They stuck with their teams. Now it is different.

Oh definitely !!!  Watching Lynch becoming a super star and being ( IMO ) a major contributor of Seachickens success on offense is a tough pill to swallow as a Bills fan , 

[greenyellowred]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Lighten up Francis.

 

You're missing the most obvious one OP.  Lou Saban.  Twice.

 

Unfortunately, he was well before my time. But yes, I am going to research him now! What did he do to Buffalo?

[eball]

19 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

 

He was a little, and maybe he was behind the times in the 90's and 2000's due to his age, but he is also a HOF owner who kept the Bills in Buffalo when most others wouldn't have. He made sure they stayed in Biffalo when he passed. He also lent money to Al Davis when Raiders were in danger of folding in the 60's. He met Jim Kelly's demands in 1986 and signed him to a humongous (at the time) $4.5 million per year contract. He is a great man and has my respect. I'd rather have the Bills in Buffalo than no team at all.

 

 

I think it has been pretty well established that in the early years of ownership after the AFL/NFL merger (70s and 80s) Ralph was not committed to winning and was cheap -- particularly with coaches.

 

Ralph single-handedly prevented the early 80s Bills from becoming a powerhouse when he cheaped out on Chuck Knox.  That sent the Bills into a tailspin until Polian came in and somehow convinced Ralph he needed to spend money.

 

There's a lot of kumbaya over the things Ralph did late in life to ensure the Bills stayed in Buffalo and that's great, but he had a lot of years not to be proud of as well.

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Unfortunately, he was well before my time. But yes, I am going to research him now! What did he do to Buffalo?

Quit on Ralph twice.

 

I'd also put John Butler up there.  Put us in cap hell and then negotiated his job with the Chargers while under contract with the Bills.

[greenyellowred]

7 hours ago, nucci said:

Ralph stripped Knox of all personnel decision making.....Cribbs wanted to get paid and Ralph wouldn't do it...Reggie McKenzie a Bills traitor....? Your list is a bit flaweed

 

All good points. I guess I was angry at the time, as a kid, that a long-time Buffalo favorite left for the Seahawks, even though he was still good as a player. His leaving, as well as Knox's and Cribbs', helped us to become a joke of team in the mid-80's, until 1988.Two consecutive 2-14 seasons in 1984 and 1985. Almost all of our home games were blacked out. I had to listen to them on the radio. Everybody laughed at us. My father had to apologize that we came from Buffalo to the admissions officer when I went on a college tour in 1987. That is when I developed my life-long inferiority complex.

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[Mickey]

36 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

He at least owed it to play for the Bills for his first contract and be grateful he got to play in the NFL.

 

Gary Anderson wasn't given a shot at the NFL, he earned it. He owed the Bills nothing. If they wanted the most accurate kicker in college football, all they had to do was pay him. To me, it is immoral to pay someone less than what they are worth just because you can. Funny thing about not paying people fairly, in a free society, they go work for someone who will. 

[greenyellowred]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Quit on Ralph twice.

 

I'd also put John Butler up there.  Put us in cap hell and then negotiated his job with the Chargers while under contract with the Bills.

 

Ok, thank you. I remember the latter part re Butler. And he stole a lot of our players too, like John Kidd.

12 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

Gary Anderson wasn't given a shot at the NFL, he earned it. He owed the Bills nothing. If they wanted the most accurate kicker in college football, all they had to do was pay him. To me, it is immoral to pay someone less than what they are worth just because you can. Funny thing about not paying people fairly, in a free society, they go work for someone who will. 

 

But, he signed a contract before the pre-season with Buffalo. No one forced his hand. He was drafted by trhe Bills, who owned his rights. He was not free to work for someone else, unless he chose not to report for a year, upon which he would have to re-enter the draft. But he signed, then chose to play games and sandbag. That is what cowards do. Why didn't he just not report then and not sign the contract??

Edited July 23, 2018 by greenyellowred

[MJS]

I see your point with Jim Kelly, but to say he only somewhat made up for it is a little ridiculous. I mean, he did take the Bills to 4 Superbowls, you know.

[greenyellowred]

Just now, MJS said:

I see your point with Jim Kelly, but to say he only somewhat made up for it is a little ridiculous. I mean, he did take the Bills to 4 Superbowls, you know.

 

Ok, I admit he more than made up for it. Part of me just wishes he wouldn't have held out to begin with. Then he could have possibly been a better QB than Marino and Elway. Buffalo may not have been so bad then in the mid-80's. We had a very talented team.

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Ok, I admit he more than made up for it. Part of me just wishes he wouldn't have held out to begin with. Then he could have possibly been a better QB than Marino and Elway. Buffalo may not have been so bad then in the mid-80's. We had a very talented team.

 

Worked out for him, though. He was a star in the USFL, so when he came over he got a huge contract.

[metzelaars_lives]

1 hour ago, greenyellowred said:

 

Of course you didn't find anything--it was 1982 and there was no internet back then. It was absolutely true, as a previous poster said here with more evidence. He was a clear star and I was thrilled the Bills drafted him. I watched him in practice and read news reports and he kicked butt (I lived in Dunkirk at the time, when the Bills held their training camp a mile away from my home in Fredonia). He routinely was making 50 and 60 yard field goals at the time in practice (they were all two-a-days back then), which was great for back in 1982. But I also watched (or read about) him miss every field goal in the pre-season, even though the Bills kept on letting him try an excessive amout of times so they wouldn't have to cut him in favor of Effren Herrera, who was just average. They wanted Gary, not Effren, and they were bending over backwards for him. I was only in 7th grade at the time and I didn't know why he missed all the field goals. I thought it must have been just nerves. But later on I learned it was on purpose. As the other poster said, Ralph Wilson did not pay him enough and Gary wanted out of his contract. It was rumored he had a deal already made with Pittsburgh.

 

EDIT: Here is Mickey's post, which supports my stance:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/206943-top-10-biggest-traitors-in-buffalo-bills-history/?tab=comments#comment-5190460

 

 

I'm totally aware the internet did not exist in 1982.  I can, however, find lots of information related to the Civil War, which likewise occurred prior to the advent of the internet.

[reddogblitz]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It wasn't Jacksonville's first playoff win ever......  

 

It wasn't even Jacksonville 's first playoff win ever over the Bills ...

[LaDexter]

The WIND = blew Scott Norwood's kick wide....