What If Rex Never Was Hired & Schwartz was The HC ?

[BuffaloRush]

10 hours ago, T master said:

I know the Bills are in a good place now with the Mc Bean era firmly in place, the play off drought is over & i see good things in the future under this new regime but while reading today on Rumblings i saw a What If post about the coaching staff prior to this one that the Pegula's have now .

 

The post was about how after Marrone stiffed the Bills & the Bills had this kick butt D in place the coach of the unit was Jim Schwartz which had head coaching experience & has now put a Super Bowl ring on his finger . I for one was hoping they would keep him for the continuity part of him staying & through reading that article was wondering what you all thought about that ?

 

I know the past is the past & i am glad in the direction that the Bills are taking but do you think if the Pegula's would have put Schwartz in the HC ing position it would have been better or worse than Rex ?

 

These sort of “butterfly effect” questions are always tough to answer because there are so many variables.

 

Lets say everything is the same with Marrone leaving, Whaley staying as GM, and Schwartz as HC.

 

I do believe that the Bills would have a top defense.  Maybe not as high as they ranked in 2014 but still a top 10 unit.

 

Offensively you have a lot of questions.  Remember Orton retired at the end of the season.  There would be a huge hole at QB, because it’s certain EJ was not th answer.  If Rex wasn’t HC, there’s no guarantee that they sign Tyrod.  We could be looking at a completely different QB - who knows who that QB would be.  Whaley seemed to heavily invested in EJ - even in 2014.  Can you really see EJ or Matt Cassell winning 9 or 10 games?  

 

Second, we’d also be looking at a completely different offense.  A lot would depend on what Schwartz did as OC.

 

Third, there’s no guarantee that Buffalo still makes the trade for Shady.  Maybe Schwartz saw Kiko as a key component of his defense and didn’t want to make th deal.  We don’t know.

 

All in all, I think it’s possible that if Schwartz had a decent plan on offense, we might have seen playoffs a year or two earlier.  Still with no long term at QB, I still think they’d be average to slightly above average

Edited June 12, 2018 by BuffaloRush

[GunnerBill]

It's one for the N"if"L

[oldmanfan]

My sense is that Schwartz and Ryan are similar; both top out as good coordinators, but don't have what it takes to be a HC.  Does McDermott?  So far I'd say he's showing signs of being able to make the transition.

 

The most difficult thing in pro sports; identifying a guy who will wind up being a good head coach/manager.

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, T master said:

I know the Bills are in a good place now with the Mc Bean era firmly in place, the play off drought is over & i see good things in the future under this new regime but while reading today on Rumblings i saw a What If post about the coaching staff prior to this one that the Pegula's have now .

 

The post was about how after Marrone stiffed the Bills & the Bills had this kick butt D in place the coach of the unit was Jim Schwartz which had head coaching experience & has now put a Super Bowl ring on his finger . I for one was hoping they would keep him for the continuity part of him staying & through reading that article was wondering what you all thought about that ?

 

I know the past is the past & i am glad in the direction that the Bills are taking but do you think if the Pegula's would have put Schwartz in the HC ing position it would have been better or worse than Rex ?

Schwartz was not a good head coach with the lions. People so eaisly forger about that and think we'd be like 13-3 every year under him.

[frostbitmic]

The Schwartz wouldn't have destroyed the defense like Rex did but we have no way of knowing what he would've done with the offense.

[dpberr]

I don't know about record but I imagine Mario Williams and Marcel Dareus would still be Buffalo Bills.   I think the biggest impact would have been on Mario.  

 

 I think his career ends quite differently. Instead of flaming out in Buffalo and then in Miami, he registers double digit sack seasons every year in that defense.   

[PromoTheRobot]

We would probably be hiring a new head coach in year two, while criticizing the Pegulas for hiring a known failure like Schwartz and passing on a stud like Rex Ryan.

Edited June 12, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Mr. WEO]

Go ask the Detroit Lions...

[Epstein's Mother]

12 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Schwartz was not a good head coach with the lions. People so eaisly forger about that and think we'd be like 13-3 every year under him.

 

He was most famous in Detroit for a postgame handshake (or non-handshake).  Good D coordinator but head coach; no thanks.

[thenorthremembers]

E.J. Manuel is your starting quarterback in 2015, you win 6-7 games.    As you are still in a 4-3 defense you most likely dont give up the 4th round pick to get Ragland and rather than having Cardale Jones you end up with Dak Prescott.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I think it would have come down to 2 things. Who is the QB and who is running the offense? 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Schwartz was not a good head coach with the lions. People so eaisly forger about that and think we'd be like 13-3 every year under him.

 

His first 3 years with the Lions were very good.  He inherited a 0-16 roster totally devoid of talent (it was Calvin Johnson, Cliff Avril and then a load of guys who shouldn't have been in the NFL) and built it in 3 years back into a playoff team.  After that they lost their way and his "play tough" mantra had resulted in some really undisciplined performances.  But people look at his pure W-L record in Detroit and think he was worse than he was.  Those first two years were about trying to just get some talent back on the roster.  That wouldn't have been an issue had he taken over in Buffalo in 2015.  He had some building blocks in place.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Would Mario Williams play dropped off so quickly?

 

Would Orton would have still retired?

 

Would be have signed Tyrod?

 

Would we have traded for McCoy?

 

 

This reminds me of the announcer's "WELL!..." at the end of the 'Chickenman (he's everywhere!)' segments back on KB radio in the 60s.  ?

[Marv's Neighbor]

Chances are, the Schwartz would still be with us.

[snamsnoops]

11 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Some do not even read tweets unless quoted on wall and even in this case I need to highlight it to read it since it is in all blue. <-- My head hurtz trying to read em!

I wonder if it was pasted on Packers board would it be green?

 

 

 

[CardinalScotts]

track record shows 4-12, 5-11 and out

[xsoldier54]

13 hours ago, T master said:

I know the Bills are in a good place now with the Mc Bean era firmly in place, the play off drought is over & i see good things in the future under this new regime but while reading today on Rumblings i saw a What If post about the coaching staff prior to this one that the Pegula's have now .

 

The post was about how after Marrone stiffed the Bills & the Bills had this kick butt D in place the coach of the unit was Jim Schwartz which had head coaching experience & has now put a Super Bowl ring on his finger . I for one was hoping they would keep him for the continuity part of him staying & through reading that article was wondering what you all thought about that ?

 

I know the past is the past & i am glad in the direction that the Bills are taking but do you think if the Pegula's would have put Schwartz in the HC ing position it would have been better or worse than Rex ?

Who knows?  Schwartz did not do very well as a HC previously.  Having said that, I believe just about anybody would have been better than Rex Ryan. 

[MJS]

I'd take McDermott over Schwartz. That's really what it comes down to, because Schwartz would have lasted longer than Rex.

 

McDermott is easy to root for. He's humble, sincere, and hard working. You can tell the players respect and ADMIRE him. That comes down to him as a person, not just as a coach. Luckily he seems to be a good coach as well. Slam dunk.

[FappyTheClown]

What if snow was black?

 

[Direhard Fan]

Who was his QB??  Said the Fairy Godmother.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

He was most famous in Detroit for a postgame handshake (or non-handshake).  Good D coordinator but head coach; no thanks.

 

Yeah people don't seem to realize the skill set you need to succeed as a head coach and the skillset you need to succeed as a coordinator are completely different.

 

Head coaches deal with so much non-football stuff its crazy. Its why so few coordinators can make that jump because being a great on one side of the ball as a coordinator isn't what makes you a great head coach that deals with all aspects of things.

[dwight in philly]

17 hours ago, T master said:

I know the Bills are in a good place now with the Mc Bean era firmly in place, the play off drought is over & i see good things in the future under this new regime but while reading today on Rumblings i saw a What If post about the coaching staff prior to this one that the Pegula's have now .

 

The post was about how after Marrone stiffed the Bills & the Bills had this kick butt D in place the coach of the unit was Jim Schwartz which had head coaching experience & has now put a Super Bowl ring on his finger . I for one was hoping they would keep him for the continuity part of him staying & through reading that article was wondering what you all thought about that ?

 

I know the past is the past & i am glad in the direction that the Bills are taking but do you think if the Pegula's would have put Schwartz in the HC ing position it would have been better or worse than Rex ?

I have thought about that scenerio myself. very good question. i tend to think we may have been ok.. D would  have been solid. Rex re-inventing the D was the problem IMHO. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

His success would have been completely dependent on who was hired as OC and how much control they would have over the offense. I think with Schwartz controlling the defense and Anthony Lynn controlling the offense, we would have seen the playoffs sooner. Rex was a curse on the organization and on football. He should not be allowed to make money from the sport in any capacity. I hate listening to him on tv. He knows nothing about the game and is a complete failure. 

[Virgil]

All comes down to who he would've hired as defensive coordinator. 

 

You also have to ask why he hasn't become a head coach since leaving here, considering how well his defense has continued to perform. 

 

Ultimately, I think we would be search for a head coach next year because I think he would have stayed with TT and we wouldn't have made up the ground on offense to offset the defense. 

 

But hey, I'm wrong a lot.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

It has seemed like the lack of continuity with our defensive scheme and continuous change of direction with our Offense has been a huge thorn in this franchises side for a long time. It has always seemed that when one side of the ball is playing good the other side is terrible and more times than not it has been the offense holding us back. Had we kept Schwartz and his defense we would of still had major holes in our offense and I'm sure forever stuck in the 9-7 to 7-9 range unless we could find a QB and a really good O-coordinator. That being said Schwartz is legitimately one of the best D coordinators that I've seen rivaling Wade Phillips.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Another interesting topic to think about. What if we started Doug Flutie instead of Rob Johnson back in the Wildcard game against the Titans?

[Bob in STL]

I think Schwartz would have done better than Rex but I am happy we ended up with McDermott/Beane. 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

Yeah people don't seem to realize the skill set you need to succeed as a head coach and the skillset you need to succeed as a coordinator are completely different.

 

Head coaches deal with so much non-football stuff its crazy. Its why so few coordinators can make that jump because being a great on one side of the ball as a coordinator isn't what makes you a great head coach that deals with all aspects of things.

 

One of the skills you need as a head coach is picking coaches to work for you which help with your weaknesses and are strong enough to tell you "you made a mistake".  Based on coaches he picked and dismissed in a year it is a work in progress for coach McD.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

His first 3 years with the Lions were very good.  He inherited a 0-16 roster totally devoid of talent (it was Calvin Johnson, Cliff Avril and then a load of guys who shouldn't have been in the NFL) and built it in 3 years back into a playoff team.  After that they lost their way and his "play tough" mantra had resulted in some really undisciplined performances.  But people look at his pure W-L record in Detroit and think he was worse than he was.  Those first two years were about trying to just get some talent back on the roster.  That wouldn't have been an issue had he taken over in Buffalo in 2015.  He had some building blocks in place.

 

 

....don't recall him being a candidate or interviewed for recent HC positions....do you think he found his niche as a DC and is comfortable with it versus another HC shot?....

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....don't recall him being a candidate or interviewed for recent HC positions....do you think he found his niche as a DC and is comfortable with it versus another HC shot?....

 

The Giants inteviewed him this year. I do think he deserves another shot and if it wasn't for the current trend in favour of offensive Head Coaches I think he would have got it by now. He is obviously more capable than a number of the Head Coaches in the league. 

[billsfan89]

The defense would have been an elite unit for 2015 at least. I think that Schwartz gets one more decent year out of Mario, while Dareus, Hughes, and Kyle were playing at an elite level. The talent fits the scheme better and the defense stays a top 5 unit for 2015 and a top 10 unit for 2016. 

 

But the offense might still have been a mess. There is no guarantee that they trade for Shady, sign InCog (Who was huge in turning around the O-line) draft Miller (who was also big for the O-line in 2015 and 2016) sign Clay and sign Tyrod (Knock Tyrod all you want he was miles better than what Marrone was trotting out there) while also getting Roman to put together the offense. 

 

So as bad as Rex !@#$ed with the defense Roman and the big spending put together a pretty good offense. So if somehow Schwartz stayed and they put together the same offense then the Bills would have been an 11+ win team in 2015 but it is hard to project that forward. 

[Nick the Greek]

Awesome post! I have no idea but I think we’d be worse off. Damn. I so hated the Rex hire but maybe it’s what we needed. 

[T master]

To put in my 2 cents on my own post i think if Rex would have been a true HC & fixed the things that were wrong with the team & leave the things alone that were good with the team he would have been better for him & all concerned ! 

 

He left Crossman in charge of the ST unit Good Move they were very good the year before & if he would have left Schwartz do his thing with no meddling & just been the HC (which with his ego would never had happened) the D would have been fine ! If it ain't broke don't fix it !! 

 

Then alls he needed to do was put Roman in charge of the offense & let the people he hired do what they do . Then been the HC like he was to get rid of Roman & put Lynn in charge i think the team would have been in the play offs sooner .

 

But if that di happen we wouldn't be where the team is now which is much better off !! 

 

That is why i like Mcdermot so much he is humble & he has put in place people that he allows to do their job & trusts them to do it to his standard & if not like Dennison your gone then finds some one else to work with the strengths of the players they have while through the draft adding players to better what is already there .

 

Rex just threw every thing out of kilter kind of like try to paddle up stream while white water rafting pretty much impossible, but i am stoked to see where the Bills are headed with this staff !! 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Simple math. He would've been a better coach than fat boy but not as good an overall HC as Sean.....