Kim Pegula on a New Stadium: "I Don't Even Know If We Can Get There"

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, papazoid said:

by the time this stadium starts (2026) and finishes (2030) with cost overruns it will be $2.0 Billion

 

Mid by cost overruns you mean kickbacks to corrupt politicians yes.

[papazoid]

4 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

 

Sure I can. The Chargers wanted to move.  Plain and simple.   The value of the team increased a lot with move to LA.

 

But They didn’t have to move.  They could have got a new stadium in the County.  

 

part of the chargers decision was to block a third team moving into So Cal market.  if SD passed on L.A.  then the Raiders were likely to be the 2nd team in LA

[Commish]

What's the leverage of the league, though, to force a team to upgrade a stadium? Other than having the other owners snubbing the Pegulas at the owners' meetings cocktail parties, who cares what the league thinks.

[Chandler#81]

When a minimum of 3 out of 8 Sunday’s are frigid, enduring a blizzard or both, while 25 guys stand shoulder to shoulder around a wash basin to UrN8, a new stadium is an overdue must. The decision isn’t in the hands of an under-compensated community. The ‘League’ couldn’t care any less about our ‘feelings’. It’s what They want and they have the leverage of eager cities to choose from to ransom it into being.

[Coach Tuesday]

10 hours ago, GG said:

 

Levi's.  Worst amenities and crowd flow.  Literally 1 hour wait at the concessions. 

 

That's just a Bay Area thing - those people LOVE waiting mind-numbingly in line for garlic fries for hours, missing half the game in the meantime.  And they don't even stand or yell during critical moments of the game.

[Mat68]

13 minutes ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

What's the leverage of the league, though, to force a team to upgrade a stadium? Other than having the other owners snubbing the Pegulas at the owners' meetings cocktail parties, who cares what the league thinks.

Primetime games.  Overall, team wealth and value.  No differant than college.  As a proffessional athlete you want to be at the top.  Some colleges have better facilities than Buffalo.  

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

I keep thinking back to the quotes I believe Mara and Khan gave indicating it was the Pegulas understanding that a new stadium would be needed was a key contributing factor in the other NFL Owners selecting the Pegulas bid for the team.

 

it Almost appeared then, the the promise of a new stadium by the Pegulas was good enough for the other owners NOT to push for the team in Toronto.

 

This would seemingly appear to be going back on that understanding between the Pegulas and the other Owners.

 

who I assume will still want and get their new stadium.  If not in Buffalo, then to put pressure on elsewhere.

 

 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Primetime games.  Overall, team wealth and value.  No differant than college.  As a proffessional athlete you want to be at the top.  Some colleges have better facilities than Buffalo.  

facilites can be upgraded without building a new stadium 

[BuffaloBill]

15 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Keep it where it is, that's just fine, nothing is wrong with it.

 

 

This is exactly the truth but the NFL will push the Pegula’s, the city and the state to do something else.  

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It’s not about “adding to the experience” it is about “adding to the bottom line.”

While it is concerning, their investments in WNY pretty much assure the team’s future there. This, to me, is the natural next step to the stadium being built. It is posturing. She’s just saying “we aren’t paying for it ourselves.” There will be some back and forth and at the end of the day it will work out. The team, the state (or county) and fans will fund it it. 

 

She is correct though that this is essential. The Bills cannot remain viable long-term playing at New Era as is presently constructed. The stadium yields a fraction of the revenue of other venues around the country. Every year that is the case, the gap widens betweens the Bills and every other team in the league.

Isn't that more a function of the local corporate dollars available than anything else? Or is there an untapped well of corporate money just waiting to buy up suites and sponsor opportunities in WNY? 

[NoSaint]

46 minutes ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

What's the leverage of the league, though, to force a team to upgrade a stadium? Other than having the other owners snubbing the Pegulas at the owners' meetings cocktail parties, who cares what the league thinks.

 

The shared vs unshared revenue streams press owners to get more out of their stadiums. Unless you think they are going to drain cash from their other businesses, the next “wells” they are going to drill to finance this team will be city, state, and fans. 

 

As kirby notes, it will not just be improving experience but also tying premium amenities to premium seats to improve cash flow. For joe bills fan that just wants to be in the building, new era is fine... but it’s definitely not maximizing the ability to have fans hand you their money. 

[Kirby Jackson]

59 minutes ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

What's the leverage of the league, though, to force a team to upgrade a stadium? Other than having the other owners snubbing the Pegulas at the owners' meetings cocktail parties, who cares what the league thinks.

There isn’t leverage from the league. With that being said the salary cap is a portion of the revenues both shared and non-shared. If these teams keep raising generating more and more non-shared revenue the cap climbs.  The Bills pay a higher and higher percentage of overall revenue to the players than other teams. That’s the case now but it gets more extreme every year. That was Ralph Wilson’s initial pushback on the CBA.

[Trogdor]

In just shared revenue alone, these teams make back all of their operating costs and then some. After you add in local revenue it's more than enough to cover the majority of stadium costs. Green Bay has to release it's numbers as a publicly owned franchise, so it's not hard to track this stuff. 

[Jasovon]

i've been watching all or nothing with the cowboys, great watch if anyone hasn't seen it. Jerry Jones spent billions on the stadium and practice facility and they have 2 playoff wins in the last 20 years, throwing money at this stuff doesn't guarantee the team will be any better so if it ain't broke....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

In just shared revenue alone, these teams make back all of their operating costs and then some. After you add in local revenue it's more than enough to cover the majority of stadium costs. Green Bay has to release it's numbers as a publicly owned franchise, so it's not hard to track this stuff. 

 

YO! it's the burninator!

 

[Matt_In_NH]

Can't imagine what they could get for PSL's in Buffalo.

Edited May 24, 2018 by mattynh

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There isn’t leverage from the league. With that being said the salary cap is a portion of the revenues both shared and non-shared. If these teams keep raising generating more and more non-shared revenue the cap climbs.  The Bills pay a higher and higher percentage of overall revenue to the players than other teams. That’s the case now but it gets more extreme every year. That was Ralph Wilson’s initial pushback on the CBA.

 

There is leverage from the league from the sharing of gate revenues.  Last I recall was visiting teams get 40% of gate receipts, and as Buffalo keeps falling further behind, there definitely will be pressure from the other owners for Pegulas' to increase their contribution.

[Hammered a Lot]

28 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

facilites can be upgraded without building a new stadium 

In my unbiased opinion I think Kim is saying they will be rehaping New Era Field and not building a new stadium. This year as reported earlier there is club and office remolding. Also there is exterior work being done to the field house roof. 

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, Jasovon said:

i've been watching all or nothing with the cowboys, great watch if anyone hasn't seen it. Jerry Jones spent billions on the stadium and practice facility and they have 2 playoff wins in the last 20 years, throwing money at this stuff doesn't guarantee the team will be any better so if it ain't broke....

 

Did you have some expectation that building a stadium correlates with winning?

[Kirby Jackson]

14 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Isn't that more a function of the local corporate dollars available than anything else? Or is there an untapped well of corporate money just waiting to buy up suites and sponsor opportunities in WNY? 

I think that it is primarily local (but some of both). The Bills need to create new area to monetize (like they did the gates a few years ago). A new stadium gives them a clean slate to create new areas, amenities and pricing. 

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

There is leverage from the league from the sharing of gate revenues.  Last I recall was visiting teams get 40% of gate receipts, and as Buffalo keeps falling further behind, there definitely will be pressure from the other owners for Pegulas' to increase their contribution.

That’s the reason (or one of) the reasons that the league wants it. They want the Bills to kick in a greater portion. At the same time, in terms of “leverage” they have none. They can’t kick the Pegula’s out. The owner makes those decisions. It just becomes increasingly difficult to compete. The cap and revenues continue to rise all over the league and the Bills revenues don’t rise at the same rate. 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

Every building has a useful lifetime. The Bills are not playing in their original stadium. The Sabres no longer play in the Aud. At sone point there has to be a decision to fund or not to fund a new facility. Rehab can kick the can fown the road only so far.

 

It is probably true that the stadium does not maximize the revenue of the team even within the market constraints. The problem is, there is still a limited pool of money. If the new stadium would allow the team to make 125% of current stadium related revenue, would it be worth it? What if it is 110% or 150%? We don't know what the Bills' internal estimates are on this. I agree with the commenters who say that there are not a huge number of companies to pay for suites and that $100,000 PSLs are not going to work in Buffalo. But I don't know that we can guess at the numbers.

 

On the surface however I have trouble believing that an investment of over $1B will pay for itself in added revenue. So most likely this statement is intended as a subtle comment to set the stage for more public funding at the end of the current lease. While I suspect the Pegulas might not move the team themselves, they do have a credible option: they can out the team up for sale when the lease is near expiration. Or, when the next extension is near expiration. There is good evidence to suggest that if put on the open market they can make a nice return on their purchase. In the end that is quite a bit of leverage and so it may mot be coincidence this is coming up after the Carolina sale price was reported.

[Kirby Jackson]

As an aside, it becomes even more important with the new Vegas and LA stadiums on the horizon. League wide revenues (and in turn the cap) will spike and the Bills contribution will remain stagnant. I suspect that is a big reason that they are talking about this now.

[teef]

i'm not worried about any of this.  at all.

[GG]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it is primarily local (but some of both). The Bills need to create new area to monetize (like they did the gates a few years ago). A new stadium gives them a clean slate to create new areas, amenities and pricing. 

That’s the reason (or one of) the reasons that the league wants it. They want the Bills to kick in a greater portion. At the same time, in terms of “leverage” they have none. They can’t kick the Pegula’s out. The owner makes those decisions. It just becomes increasingly difficult to compete. The cap and revenues continue to rise all over the league and the Bills revenues don’t rise at the same rate. 

 

The league definitely has leverage because they can threaten to change the revenue sharing formula from a percentage to a fixed minimum dollar amount.  If the Bills keep falling behind, that will hurt them a lot.

[wagon127]

Is it true that other outdoor NFL stadiums have heated concourses? Also, Can the bills get some more stand up tables in ours? They have all this food like tacos, and chicken and waffle sandwiches, and its really hard to eat food like that when its on your lap. The arena has tables like that.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The league definitely has leverage because they can threaten to change the revenue sharing formula from a percentage to a fixed minimum dollar amount.  If the Bills keep falling behind, that will hurt them a lot.

Which would have to be negotiated with the players association in the next CBA. The players will NEVER agree to that. They will want the piece of the pie to continue to grow with revenues. That won’t ever happen (to say nothing of the fact that other lower revenue teams would never vote for that). 

 

We don’t agree that they have leverage. We do agree that if the Bills keep falling behind it will hurt them. That is happening now and will only get worse with LA and Vegas. There is some urgency for sure.

[CountDorkula]

15 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

the narrative only works if the Chief  and Green bay were not viable    

Go to Lambeau. 

 

It is open year round for tours, there is a two story team story the size of the F(*)& Ralph.

 

The restaurant in the stadium is amazing. And is open year round. Its massive 

They spent $200MM renovating the stadium and bringing it to modern era.

You cannot compare Lambeau to New Era. Frankly you cant compare anything to New Era

 

New Era Field is lipstick on a pig currently.  

 

[4_kidd_4]

34 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Can't imagine what they could get for PSL's in Buffalo.

 

About tree fiddy.

12 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm not worried about any of this.  at all.

 

Feels like an Arby’s night.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Go to Lambeau. 

 

It is open year round for tours, there is a two story team story the size of the F(*)& Ralph.

 

The restaurant in the stadium is amazing. And is open year round. Its massive 

They spent $200MM renovating the stadium and bringing it to modern era.

You cannot compare Lambeau to New Era. Frankly you cant compare anything to New Era

 

New Era Field is lipstick on a pig currently.  

 

 

But .... does Lambeau have troughs?

[GG]

8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Which would have to be negotiated with the players association in the next CBA. The players will NEVER agree to that. They will want the piece of the pie to continue to grow with revenues. That won’t ever happen (to say nothing of the fact that other lower revenue teams would never vote for that). 

 

We don’t agree that they have leverage. We do agree that if the Bills keep falling behind it will hurt them. That is happening now and will only get worse with LA and Vegas. There is some urgency for sure.

 

In this sense, NFLPA would be aligned with the majority owners because the end result would be to increase the overall revenue haul.  That's why there's not that much griping about London games.  They bring in more total revenues than if all games were played in Jax.

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Which would have to be negotiated with the players association in the next CBA. The players will NEVER agree to that. They will want the piece of the pie to continue to grow with revenues. That won’t ever happen (to say nothing of the fact that other lower revenue teams would never vote for that). 

 

We don’t agree that they have leverage. We do agree that if the Bills keep falling behind it will hurt them. That is happening now and will only get worse with LA and Vegas. There is some urgency for sure.

 

The structure itself is the leverage. Whether fans like it- this is a business first and the league created a structure that pressures teams to keep up. Throw in the easy playbook of other cities being eager so you better step up...

 

over the next 3 years this will be a relatively constant and likely escalating conversation. Ultimately everyone will pitch in for either a very substantial renovation (not like the recent band aids) or a new stadium. It’ll see tax dollars, pegula bucks and don’t be shocked if at least some minor PSLs (they don’t have to be tens of thousands). Look for a more compete game day experience that cuts back on broken tables and ramps up revenue streams. Look for more changes in things like club sections and vendors inside. They will create more places you can hand them money, they will make it easier to do so and they will make you want to hand more of it over when you do. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

In this sense, NFLPA would be aligned with the majority owners because the end result would be to increase the overall revenue haul.  That's why there's not that much griping about London games.  They bring in more total revenues than if all games were played in Jax.

Yes, but there isn’t the trust there. If the owners say, “we will give you $150M a year for 10 years” the players won’t go for it. The reason is that they don’t trust the owners wont sign a deal tomorrow that brings in billions more. The cap will always, always, always, always be tied to a percentage of the revenue. They will bicker over what that percentage should be but it will never go to a firm number.

 

Thos also doesn’t take into account that every team has an equal say. They will never get enough support from the smaller teams to make this a reality. It just isn’t an option. 

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

The structure itself is the leverage. Whether fans like it- this is a business first and the league created a structure that pressures teams to keep up. Throw in the easy playbook of other cities being eager so you better step up...

 

over the next 3 years this will be a relatively constant and likely escalating conversation. Ultimately everyone will pitch in for either a very substantial renovation (not like the recent band aids) or a new stadium. It’ll see tax dollars, pegula bucks and don’t be shocked if at least some minor PSLs (they don’t have to be tens of thousands). Look for a more compete game day experience that cuts back on broken tables and ramps up revenue streams. Look for more changes in things like club sections and vendors inside. They will create more places you can hand them money, they will make it easier to do so and they will make you want to hand more of it over when you do. 

Exactly!!

[nucci]

53 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There isn’t leverage from the league. With that being said the salary cap is a portion of the revenues both shared and non-shared. If these teams keep raising generating more and more non-shared revenue the cap climbs.  The Bills pay a higher and higher percentage of overall revenue to the players than other teams. That’s the case now but it gets more extreme every year. That was Ralph Wilson’s initial pushback on the CBA.

and he was correct......even though he was criticized for being old and out of touch at the time

[T master]

16 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

There’s plenty wrong with it.

 

 

 

 

What is wrong with it ? 

 

I have been to the stadium a few times & i don't get it ! The sight lines are really good the inside of the venue with the updated renovations (that i haven't seen) should have made the experience even better .

 

The only thing that i didn't like which i don't at any venue during a game is the restroom situations because they are usuallly always full but thats because you have all those folks wanting a break at the same time .

 

I've been to Jerry world a number of times sure it's Okay but it's out shadowed by Jerry's Ignorant ego & it's more of a

"look at what i can build cause i'm richer than you" type atmosphere the players walk through a bar to go to the locker room i don't dig it !! 

 

The Bills stadium is like the team a working mans football stadium , the Bills aren't trying to be something they aren't a football team not a extension of a owners ego . 

 

Lambeau , Soldier field, among others are older than New Era/The Ralph & with updates & renovations are still in great shape why build it if they don't need to !! 

[teef]

23 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

Feels like an Arby’s night.

arby's should close all their brick and mortar stores, and just sell the horsey sauce retail.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, T master said:

 

 

What is wrong with it ? 

 

I have been to the stadium a few times & i don't get it ! The sight lines are really good the inside of the venue with the updated renovations (that i haven't seen) should have made the experience even better .

 

The only thing that i didn't like which i don't at any venue during a game is the restroom situations because they are usuallly always full but thats because you have all those folks wanting a break at the same time .

 

I've been to Jerry world a number of times sure it's Okay but it's out shadowed by Jerry's Ignorant ego & it's more of a

"look at what i can build cause i'm richer than you" type atmosphere the players walk through a bar to go to the locker room i don't dig it !! 

 

The Bills stadium is like the team a working mans football stadium , the Bills aren't trying to be something they aren't a football team not a extension of a owners ego . 

 

Lambeau , Soldier field, among others are older than New Era/The Ralph & with updates & renovations are still in great shape why build it if they don't need to !! 

 

Sorry, but if you think the NFL is still a working man's sport, you're about 20 years out of date. And that's being generous.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, nucci said:

and he was correct......even though he was criticized for being old and out of touch at the time

100% he was!! He wasn’t out of touch; he was wise. He was the smartest guy in the room.

[GG]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Yes, but there isn’t the trust there. If the owners say, “we will give you $150M a year for 10 years” the players won’t go for it. The reason is that they don’t trust the owners wont sign a deal tomorrow that brings in billions more. The cap will always, always, always, always be tied to a percentage of the revenue. They will bicker over what that percentage should be but it will never go to a firm number.

 

I think we're talking about different percentages.  I'm not arguing about changing the salary cap tie to percentage of total revenues.  I'm talking about the split of gate receipts between the home and visiting teams.  If the owners propose to change the gate receipt sharing formula, that won't affect the salary cap because all it will do is reshuffle the revenue allocation among the owners, yet league defined revenues will stay the same.    But if that proposal will also force the smaller teams to then increase their ticket prices or find other ways to grow revenues, then the NFLPA will definitely support it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

arby's should close all their brick and mortar stores, and just sell the horsey sauce retail.

 

mix the horsey/arbys sauce on curly fries and you're at the apex of fast food.

 

[teef]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

mix the horsey/arbys sauce on curly fries and you're at the apex of fast food.

 

i'm more of a horsey sauce purist, but since i pride myself as living life on the edge, i'd mix it up once.