HappyDays Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 The thread title isn't true. Players can choose to stay in the locker room and kneel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said:  It's nationalistic, not political. What exactly is political about it in your opinion? You are being disengenuos. It is obviously a political issue at this point.  But then again, I am an idiot in your opinion because I do not agree with you about players being forced to stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:  Any forced show of "Patriotism" is political IMO.  Agree to disagree. It's been part of these games for the 47 years that I've been alive. More tradition than "forced patriotism". I would suggest that anyone that doesn't like being an American is free to leave and not be an American. There's no one forcing any of us to live here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: The thread title isn't true. Players can choose to stay in the locker room and kneel. They can also kneel on the field. Depends how much their cause means to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Â Before the protests you'd actually watch the anthem? Â Before the protests I didn't watch the anthem because no one was broadcasting it unless it was a playoff game. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, Yeezus said: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/sport/nfl-spring-league-meeting-national-anthem/index.html  Wow. What a statement. and what a way to alienate all the younger generation fans. Glad they did this, as now I have an even better excuse not to watch this garbage league anymore except Bills games  the NBA will surpass the NFL in about 10 years at this rate tbh, won't be surprised when it happens.   The NBA forces their players not to protest in any way during the anthem.  So yes the NFL should take a lesson from the NBA    Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: So will concession stands and bathrooms be shut so all the fans in the stands have to stand as well? I mean if the players must stand, shouldn't those in attendance as well instead of being in a line to purchase overpriced beer? Actually, I went to an Astros game recently. Not only did they shut down concessions, but they shutdown the escalators until the anthem was over. Missed a half inning by the time I got to my seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, Infinitum said: Nice, they finally did something. About time! If the protests continued in 2018, they would have lost significant revenue.  Politics aside, only a really poor business man would alienate a significant portion of the customer base! Come on, just common sense, it's entertainment not a political talk show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Tone deaf response from the NFL. Between this and their persistent obsession with eliminating any sort of violence whatsoever from the game, they'll be lucky to continue to be America's chosen sport. I concur that the NBA is in the process of bypassing the NFL as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said:  Agree to disagree. It's been part of these games for the 47 years that I've been alive. More tradition than "forced patriotism". I would suggest that anyone that doesn't like being an American is free to leave and not be an American. There's no one forcing any of us to live here.  You're 180 degrees out of step with what being an American means. Your stance is more in tune with North Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, TheTruthHurts said: They can also kneel on the field. Depends how much their cause means to them.  Then there's this, which is 100% accurate. The players can do whatever the hell they want. Stay in the locker room and kneel. Bow and pray or do a jig while it's being played. Perfectly free to choose to not be on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:  I 100% agree. I'm fine with this compromise, and most people who say they'll boycott the NFL won't actually do it. That goes for both sides of the debate. I remember a few years ago a bunch of people said they would stop going to Chick-Fil-A because of their beliefs about gay marriage or something stupid like that, and then their revenues actually INCREASED. Most people don't follow through with their boycotts if they like the product. It's all a bunch of BS. The only thing that will ever impact the NFL's bottom line is the quality of the games.   Bingo. The slog games have become with commercials and replay review, and the quality of the teams playing (especially in prime time) and the experience of Redzone have A LOT more to do with declining ratings than whoever is kneeling during the anthem. If players kneeling during the anthem was legitimately driving down television broadcasts the networks could very easily just not show those players and no one at home would know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Good for the NFL. They're protecting the brand. NFL games are not a forum for individual players to air their political opinions or present their personal axes to grind. When you come to the game, play football. If you have a personal cause, do it on your own time.  And if one is upset with the police then protest in front of police stations.   2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:  You're 180 degrees out of step with what being an American means. Your stance is more in tune with North Korea.  Nope. Stating the obvious is all. Nice attempt at a straw man there by you, but that's all it is.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I just don't for the life of me understand why the national anthem is part of sports? I've never heard one, that is zero, realistic reasons why we've tied sports to so-called "patriotism." When I go to work, I don't stand for the national anthem before my day starts. Why should NFL employees?  This hopefully gets litigated and the NFLPA shoves it right up the backside of these white, greedy, out of touch, fracking and polluting billionaires.  The reality is, the NFL can't win a Supreme Court case whereby the first amendment rights of employees are infringed upon as a condition of employment. If the Supreme Court was willing to rule that setting limits on campaign contributions by multinational corporations infringed on their right to "free speech," there is no way the NFL can win this case. This is the NFL trying to entice the NFLPA into litigation to try and make the players look bad.  The NFL stupidly dragged something back into the public eye when it didn't need to.   I continue to watch more and more futbol and NBA than NFL. It's deteriorated into a bad product overrun with commercials; players who get arrested at a higher rate than any pro sports league on the planet; and focused on profit first, product second. It's shite.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:  And if one is upset with the police then protest in front of police stations.   Exactly. Make your point in a forum that's appropriate to make your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: Nope. Stating the obvious is all. Nice attempt at a straw man there by you, but that's all it is.  Nice attempt to avoid answering your love it or leave it argument that doesn't add up to the principles of being an American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 53 minutes ago, Yeezus said: Wow. What a statement. and what a way to alienate all the younger generation fans. Glad they did this, as now I have an even better excuse not to watch this garbage league anymore except Bills games  Not like it matters that a garbage excuse of a poster does not watch games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:  You're 180 degrees out of step with what being an American means. Your stance is more in tune with North Korea. I'm not sure you're allowed to leave North Korea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 This is really simple: the owners are the employers, and they are free to set the rules. They also have to be prepared to deal with any ramifications of those rules.  They've made the rules the way that they've chosen to make them based upon what they feel is important to them. Now the players can choose to abide or not based upon what's most important to them, and they--like the owners--need to be prepared to deal with any ramifications of their choices.  Freedom of choice without freedom from consequence; 'merica! 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: Exactly. Make your point in a forum that's appropriate to make your point.  Yep,  I don't care what the players say in that they are not disrespecting the flag and America but when you protest during the anthem that is exactly what they are doing.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:  Nice attempt to avoid answering your love it or leave it argument that doesn't add up to the principles of being an American.  People can't leave North Korea straw-man-blitz. This thread is overplayed. Moving on.  LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: This is really simple: the owners are the employers, and they are free to set the rules. They also have to be prepared to deal with any ramifications of those rules.  They've made the rules the way that they've chosen to make them based upon what they feel is important to them. Now the players can choose to abide or not based upon what's most important to them, and they--like the owners--need to be prepared to deal with any ramifications of their choices.  Freedom of choice without freedom from consequence; 'merica! Excellent post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: I think you are over exaggerating a bit... the rule allows the players to skip the anthem if the players don’t want to stand...for a person who was ok with the players kneeling so long as the league allowed it, this sounds pretty fair to me. The posters is always exaggerating to try to get a shock like a lot of "news" outlets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 they can still kneel, right?  Just do it in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 58 minutes ago, Yeezus said: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/sport/nfl-spring-league-meeting-national-anthem/index.html  Wow. What a statement. and what a way to alienate all the younger generation fans. Glad they did this, as now I have an even better excuse not to watch this garbage league anymore except Bills games  the NBA will surpass the NFL in about 10 years at this rate tbh, won't be surprised when it happens.  The NBA has 2 teams that make the finals every year, there's no need to even watch till the finals. When they do reach the finals only one team can win because it is so one sided it's embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 i've decided that i absolutely don't care about any of this. does that make me a bad person? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, Yeezus said:  can you take a step back and look at the bigger picture  the NFL has essentially said the players kneeling has ZERO to do with the racial injustice in this country and more to do with the fact that they are being "unpatriotic"  the league basically has said, we don't give a flying !@#$ about whats going on in this country, we just want you to shut up and play football"  I see it differently.  The NFL is an employer. As such, they have a right to define certain standards for employee dress and behavior *while on the job*. The employer just defined those standards to include behavior during the national anthem: either stay in the locker room, or stand respectfully.  The NFL has not said anything about "we don't give a flying !@#$ about whats going on in this country", they've just said on your employer's time, on your employer's premises, during the national anthem, when the game is about ti begin, is not the time or place. AFAIK, they have said nothing about players expressing views off the field, have they?  So yeah, maybe "when you're about to play football, wearing your uniform, in the stadium, shut up and focus on football", but that just puts them in line with most other employers in the country who have standards of behavior, dress, whether or not you can talk to the media regarding the company, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 the nfl gave the players 90 mil towards activism right? Money can solve a lot of issues. I imagine they see that as paying for it to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: People can't leave North Korea straw-man-blitz.  America was founded on protest. Maybe The Founders should have just accepted King George's Edicts or just left the Colonies for greener pastures. You still don't get it with your anti-American love it or leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:  America was founded on protest. Maybe The Founders should have just accepted King George's Edicts or just left the Colonies for greener pastures. You still don't get it with your anti-American love it or leave it.  I get it just fine. You keep adding straw man fallacies, which do nothing to prove your point. Look it up and try to understand what you're doing. Comparing standing for a national anthem to the American Revolution is beyond low brow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:  America was founded on protest. Maybe The Founders should have just accepted King George's Edicts or just left the Colonies for greener pastures. You still don't get it with your anti-American love it or leave it.  They're absolutely allowed to protest; they simply need to be prepared to be fined or released for doing so...individual freedom doesn't insulate anyone from the consequences that their private employer chooses to impose for their voluntary actions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 41 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: So will concession stands and bathrooms be shut so all the fans in the stands have to stand as well? I mean if the players must stand, shouldn't those in attendance as well instead of being in a line to purchase overpriced beer? Â Thought the same thing but Ive have read that most stadiums actually do stop concession sales at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: This is really simple: the owners are the employers, and they are free to set the rules. They also have to be prepared to deal with any ramifications of those rules.  They've made the rules the way that they've chosen to make them based upon what they feel is important to them. Now the players can choose to abide or not based upon what's most important to them, and they--like the owners--need to be prepared to deal with any ramifications of their choices.  Freedom of choice without freedom from consequence; 'merica! Exactly.  They are even allowing them to kneel, they can stay in the locker room.  OBTW they players are getting tens of millions of dollars to help further their cause, I would call that more than a little generous no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 49 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: the rule allows the players to skip the anthem if the players don’t want to stand...  Which,. y'know,. is kind of the exact opposite of "NFL Forces Players To Stand for National Anthem."  But hey...who's paying attention, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Yep, I don't care what the players say in that they are not disrespecting the flag and America but when you protest during the anthem that is exactly what they are doing.  I don't myself see it as either, but I understand that you and others do see it that way. That's sort of "symbology 101", people don't get to define for themselves what symbolic gestures mean to them, they need to be willing to accept what those symbols and symbolic gestures mean to our society. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Luxy312 said:  I get it just fine. You keep adding straw man fallacies, which do nothing to prove your point. Look it up and try to understand what you're doing. Comparing standing for a national anthem to the American Revolution is beyond low brow.  The same principles of freedom apply whether you comprehend or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 True story time. Â Last year at the commercial break right before the TV station would send thw telecast to the stadium...I chose to take a bathroom break, refill my drink and get a snack. Came back right at kickoff and didn't pay the slightest attention to the stations coverage of the kneeling. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Yeezus said: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/sport/nfl-spring-league-meeting-national-anthem/index.html  Wow. What a statement. and what a way to alienate all the younger generation fans. Glad they did this, as now I have an even better excuse not to watch this garbage league anymore except Bills games  the NBA will surpass the NFL in about 10 years at this rate tbh, won't be surprised when it happens.  Don't let the Bills stop you from following this "garbage league". Forgot about the Bills, and go watch the NBA instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:  The same principles of freedom apply whether you comprehend or not. Kind of ironic you're using the "freedoms" of colonial America to make your point in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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