HappyDays Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Logic said: Between this and their persistent obsession with eliminating any sort of violence whatsoever from the game, they'll be lucky to continue to be America's chosen sport. I concur that the NBA is in the process of bypassing the NFL as we speak. There is zero evidence that the NFL is being overtaken by the NBA. The most watched NBA game last year would have been the NFL's 15th most watched game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, thenorthremembers said: Kind of ironic you're using the "freedoms" of colonial America to make your point in this thread. Freedoms have expanded over time in case you haven't noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: America was founded on protest. Maybe The Founders should have just accepted King George's Edicts or just left the Colonies for greener pastures. You still don't get it with your anti-American love it or leave it. The 1st amendment Does have boundaries. If I came to work with a Hitler T-shirt, I would undoubtedly be fired on the spot. Is that infringing on my 1st Amendment rights, or is it common sense to not expect my employer to allow me to be an @sshole? Less radical hypothetical, if I came to work out of compliance with dress code, would I not be out of compliance and subject to discipline as per the employee handbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: The same principles of freedom apply whether you comprehend or not. Their freedom isn't taken away. What part of that are you not grasping? I have the freedom to protest whatever I want on my time. My employer prohibits me from political actions during the time that I'm working at my place of employment (in the office or at a client site). I'm prohibited from associating my employer with any political position. Your failure to grasp the reality of the situation is mind numbing to say the least. Equating the NFL to North Korea or the American Revolution is beyond ridiculous and so off point. Straw man on Corner as I'm done with this level of stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, MILFHUNTER#518 said: The 1st amendment Does have boundaries. If I came to work with a Hitler T-shirt, I would undoubtedly be fired on the spot. Is that infringing on my 1st Amendment rights, or is it common sense to not expect my employer to allow me to be an @sshole? Less radical hypothetical, if I came to work out of compliance with dress code, would I not be out of compliance and subject to discipline as per the employee handbook? The one point everyone seems to miss about this issue is that the NFL is not a public space. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, MILFHUNTER#518 said: The 1st amendment Does have boundaries. If I came to work with a Hitler T-shirt, I would undoubtedly be fired on the spot. Is that infringing on my 1st Amendment rights, or is it common sense to not expect my employer to allow me to be an @sshole? Less radical hypothetical, if I came to work out of compliance with dress code, would I not be out of compliance and subject to discipline as per the employee handbook? Kneeling, raising a fist, or locking arms in protest is being an !@#$? Your Hitler T-shirt example is a ridiculous comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Kneeling, raising a fist, or locking arms in protest is being an !@#$? Your Hitler T-shirt example is a ridiculous comparison. How about that example right below it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: The same principles of freedom apply whether you comprehend or not. Not really. You're talking about what employees are free to do versus how employers are free to respond in light of their actions. That's completely different than a government impinging upon individual freedoms. You're free to call your boss a jerk, and the government can't do a darn thing about it. That wasn't true back in the colonial 1700's prior to the American Revolution; it is true now. What's also true now is that your boss is free to fine, fire, or otherwise punish you for calling him a jerk, and you receive no protection from that. Am I saying that kneeling during the anthem is the same as calling your boss a jerk? No. Do I think that some (or many) owners find it just as offensive? Yes. Are they free to place consequences upon their employees for doing so? Absolutely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Luxy312 said: Their freedom isn't taken away. What part of that are you not grasping? I have the freedom to protest whatever I want on my time. My employer prohibits me from political actions during the time that I'm working at my place of employment (in the office or at a client site). I'm prohibited from associating my employer with any political position. Your failure to grasp the reality of the situation is mind numbing to say the least. Equating the NFL to North Korea or the American Revolution is beyond ridiculous and so off point. Straw man on Corner as I'm done with this level of stupid. The fact that a player can be fined means the freedom is being taken away. It's exactly on point given your silliness of love it or leave it. Edited May 23, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Kneeling, raising a fist, or locking arms in protest is being an !@#$? Your Hitler T-shirt example is a ridiculous comparison. You do not have freedom from consequence. You never have. Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: The fact that a player can be fined means the freedom is being taken away. Dear god, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Patriotism was never mandatory in America before. That's what dictatorships do. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: The fact that a player can be fined means the freedom is being taken away. The fact that a player can be fined means they broke a company rule. They're an employee. Not a patriot. I mean, he could be a Patriot*. But that doesn't make him a patriot. It' makes him a Patrtiot*, which is completely different than being a patriot because, well, because a patriot doesn't cheat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: The fact that a player can be fined means the freedom is being taken away. Not at all. You have freedom of choice, but not freedom from consequences. Anyone can receive punishment from their employer for their actions; that's a simple truth of being under someone else's employ. Individual freedom means that nobody can take away your choice to say/do what you want provided that you aren't impinging upon the rights of others. That's not happening here; players can say/do what they want. Individual freedom doesn't insulate them from consequences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: Patriotism was never mandatory in America before. That's what dictatorships do. Can non-government officials be dictators? Two folks who forgot 8th grade Civics discuss! @26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not really. You're talking about what employees are free to do versus how employers are free to respond in light of their actions. That's completely different than a government impinging upon individual freedoms. You're free to call your boss a jerk, and the government can't do a darn thing about it. That wasn't true back in the colonial 1700's prior to the American Revolution; it is true now. What's also true now is that your boss is free to fine, fire, or otherwise punish you for calling him a jerk, and you receive no protection from that. Am I saying that kneeling during the anthem is the same as calling your boss a jerk? No. Do I think that some (or many) owners find it just as offensive? Yes. Are they free to place consequences upon their employees for doing so? Absolutely. Bingo. Anyone that is still arguing about this topic has their own biases. The stadiums are a place of work for NFL players, follow the rules set forth or face the consequences. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Can non-government officials be dictators? Two folks who forgot 8th grade Civics discuss! @26CornerBlitz We all know who is beating the drum of discontent over this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Kneeling, raising a fist, or locking arms in protest is being an !@#$? Your Hitler T-shirt example is a ridiculous comparison. HAH! But comparing the NFL to North Korea and the American Revolution is just fine. OMG....laughing out loud. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: We all know who is beating the drum of discontent over this matter. Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: HAH! But comparing the NFL to North Korea and the American Revolution is just fine. OMG....laughing out loud. Yet, your brought out the tired old Laughable Love it or Leave it line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I don't know what makes me more angry this. or the Bills draft Hats! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Yet, your brought out the tired old Laughable Love it or Leave it line. I'm genuinely curious, how is allowing players to sit out the anthem completely forcing patriotism on them? And what does a workplace code of conduct have to do with "taking away freedom?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 minute ago, CountDorkula said: I don't know what makes me more angry this. or the Bills draft Hats! ? Frankly, I'm upset that the Bills made Richie Incognito throw a dumbbell at someone because they removed stability from his life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Not at all. You have freedom of choice, but not freedom from consequences. Anyone can receive punishment from their employer for their actions; that's a simple truth of being under someone else's employ. Individual freedom means that nobody can take away your choice to say/do what you want provided that you aren't impinging upon the rights of others. That's not happening here; players can say/do what they want. Individual freedom doesn't insulate them from consequences. IMO forcing players to stand for the anthem as display of Patriotism that the NFL gets paid for in stadia funded by taxpayer dollars before the games begin is deeply ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: IMO forcing players to stand for the anthem as display of Patriotism that the NFL gets paid for in stadia funded by taxpayer dollars before the games begin is deeply ironic. They're not. They can stay in the locker room with no consequence. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: They're not. They can stay in the locker room with no consequence. Try again. It's a false choice the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 29 minutes ago, aristocrat said: the nfl gave the players 90 mil towards activism right? Money can solve a lot of issues. I imagine they see that as paying for it to go away. Stick and carrot; the horses can decide which to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: It's a false choice the way I see it. Then anyone who's employed has false choice. They're not in any unique situation at all, any more than the rest of Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Dude, you know that the whole point of the protest is because the point of their argument was that black people incur violence from police disproportionately. You can dispute whether or not this is the case. But come on, how is giving the police more money going to have them kill fewer black people? Why should the onus be on teenagers to not scare the cops by existing to the extent that they don't get riddled with bullets? You can agree or disagree with their premise, but you are being stupid about what you seem to think the problem is. De-escalation training. Tazers. More time at the gun range for police. Training the teenagers to STFU and realize they're in a losing situation with a gun drawn on them and it's not the time to argue or try to make world star. Attacking police, shouting at police, arguing with police or doing anything else but what they ask of you is stupid - you can disagree all you want. But that's not where you make your argument of right or wrong. Thinking I'm stupid is part of YOUR problem. The problem isn't the police. It's morons who don't listen to police and get what they deserve, a Darwin award delivered in a bullet. I feel this argument supercedes your ability to converse so, I tip the hat to your bonnet and wish you a good day. 1 hour ago, eball said: I'd like to know how many of the "millions" of fans who gave up the NFL over this issue stand up in front of their televisions at home and salute the anthem before they watch a sporting event. The whole damn thing is ridiculous. The players who kneel are ridiculous, the people who complain about the kneeling are ridiculous, and the notion of thinking the anthem should be played before sporting events is ridiculous. That's the worst analogy anthem kneelers make. It's a red herring and absolutely nothing to do with the argument. In your profession I know you can construct a better counter to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: Then anyone who's employed has false choice. They're not in any unique situation at all, any more than the rest of Americans. Why even play the anthem before sporting events? It doesn't happen in any other professional endeavor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: IMO forcing players to stand for the anthem as display of Patriotism that the NFL gets paid for in stadia funded by taxpayer dollars before the games begin is deeply ironic. Is it any more ironic or unfair than any employer that receives any public funding having rules of conduct by which they expect their employees to abide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 NFL is concerned with optics and how that might negatively impact the millions paid by the military to stage these for profit displays of patriotism. Over my many decades of attending sports events, I’ve seen far more blatant displays of disrespect in the stands during the playing of the anthem than anything a kneeling player shows. The hypocrisy is off the charts. Not surprised in this day and age where symbols mean more than the very right they represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: IMO forcing players to stand for the anthem as display of Patriotism that the NFL gets paid for in stadia funded by taxpayer dollars before the games begin is deeply ironic. No one is forcing them to do ANYTHING. They can kneel. In the locker room. Owner's prerogative. Edited May 23, 2018 by LABillzFan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: Is it any more ironic or unfair than any employer that receives any public funding having rules of conduct by which they expect their employees to abide? Are there any other employers that begin their work days by playing the anthem and forcing the employees to stand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Why even play the anthem before sporting events? It doesn't happen in any other professional endeavor. Another completely different argument and straw man fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatonka68 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Stand for OUR flag, or go play in the CFL. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: De-escalation training. Tazers. More time at the gun range for police. Training the teenagers to STFU and realize they're in a losing situation with a gun drawn on them and it's not the time to argue or try to make world star. Attacking police, shouting at police, arguing with police or doing anything else but what they ask of you is stupid - you can disagree all you want. But that's not where you make your argument of right or wrong. Thinking I'm stupid is part of YOUR problem. The problem isn't the police. It's morons who don't listen to police and get what they deserve, a Darwin award delivered in a bullet. I feel this argument supercedes your ability to converse so, I tip the hat to your bonnet and wish you a good day. That's the worst analogy anthem kneelers make. It's a red herring and absolutely nothing to do with the argument. In your profession I know you can construct a better counter to that. Losing situation like the black people who had cops called on them because they were having a BBQ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 Just now, Luxy312 said: Another completely different argument and straw man fallacy. Whatever you say Love it or leave it man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, nucci said: Losing situation like the black people who had cops called on them because they were having a BBQ? Don't know the details. *yawn. Don't care. Your whatever reason of whatever reason is more than likely a noise disturbance or something as such. *Yawn You realize I will argue the stupidest finite point until you're exhausted right? Probably good to just ignore my disagreement. But if you want to tango, start the music. Edit. By the way. That's a terrible analogy. The police didn't call the police on themselves. The police were called and came. That's just ridiculous. You can try again but I advise not. Edited May 23, 2018 by Boyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 It's not "love it or leave it". It's a condition of employment. I'm sorry you can't grasp this simple concept. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Is it any more ironic or unfair than any employer that receives any public funding having rules of conduct by which they expect their employees to abide? 2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Are there any other employers that begin their work days by playing the anthem and forcing the employees to stand? Pivot city bro. Don't actually analyze what you're saying, dodge and duck and distract. Almost every public school in America forces their kids to pledge allegiance every morning. Edited May 23, 2018 by BringBackOrton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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