An end to Anthem protests? [UPDATE - Augmented by new Anthem Policy]

[boyst]

This thread

 

 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

It is both. But hey thats fine. Tear uo the document i have fought and watched friends die defending. Limit those freedoms baby

Take a breath dude, Jesus.

[Radar]

Just now, phypon said:

Well, you clearly believe in freedom of speech so why are you upset with anything that Trump has said?

 

Oh, and from her own mouth, Hillary said that she deleted the emails.  Really, guy??

She deleted emails but your claiming you know what was on them. Not a big Hillary supporter. Didn't vote for her but Trump is in my opinion pathetic.

[Luxy312]

Just now, K-9 said:

This got me thinking. What if players, especially those high recognition, high merchandise selling, STAR players, decided that playing on the Sabbath conflicted with their religious beliefs. Could they be compelled to play because they are employed by a private business?

 

Nope.  Can't be compelled to play for any reason.  Players are at will employees, just like I am in my job.  They don't have to play on any religious "day", but that could and certainly would affect their ability to be employed by an NFL team.

[thebandit27]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

 

It is both. But hey thats fine. Tear uo the document i have fought and watched friends die defending. Limit those freedoms baby

 

I'm very grateful for the service of all of our military personnel; I would love to understand why you think this is any different than any employer placing restrictions on behavior?

 

In my view, it's 100% permitted under the constitution.

[K-9]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That would be really interesting; I think there's precedent for this...didn't Sandy Koufax refuse to pitch in a pennant game back in the day?

I seem to recall something about that. I’ll do a little research.

[starrymessenger]

4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

BRB, going to get pizza with extra cheese

 

I like it that way too.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

It is both. But hey thats fine. Tear uo the document i have fought and watched friends die defending. Limit those freedoms baby. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/23/nflpa-will-challenge-any-aspect-of-anthem-policy-inconsistent-with-cba/

 

So the NFLPA is going to review whether or not there's any ability under the CBA to challenge the process?  Okay, if it turns out that the owners acted outside of their bounds, then I'll agree with you that it was a shady process.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

I'm very grateful for the service of all of our military personnel; I would love to understand why you think this is any different than any employer placing restrictions on behavior?

 

In my view, it's 100% permitted under the constitution.

 

No employee should limit the right to protest. Specially when work hasnt even started yet. 

 

Now how is taking a knee disrespect anyway???  

 

But its fine Billionaires caved to the President 

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Radar said:

She deleted emails but your claiming you know what was on them. Not a big Hillary supporter. Didn't vote for her but Trump is in my opinion pathetic.

Maga. N swallow, baby

[26CornerBlitz]

Now we get to the heart of the matter.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

This got me thinking. What if players, especially those high recognition, high merchandise selling, STAR players, decided that playing on the Sabbath conflicted with their religious beliefs. Could they be compelled to play because they are employed by a private business?

 

The Sabbath is Saturday and always has been.

 

Sunday is the LORDs day

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

I seem to recall something about that. I’ll do a little research.

 

Apparently it was the World Series:

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2015/09/23/sandy-koufax-yom-kippur-1965-world-series

[boyst]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

 

I like it that way too.

If that is true you belong in jail

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Luxy312 said:

 

Nope.  Can't be compelled to play for any reason.  Players are at will employees, just like I am in my job.  They don't have to play on any religious "day", but that could and certainly would affect their ability to be employed by an NFL team.

Good point regarding their status as at will employees. Suffice to say, depending on the star status of a player, some would have their ability to be employed impacted less than others.

[boyst]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

The Sabbath is Saturday and always has been.

 

Sunday is the LORDs day

She has one hit song and all the sudden she gets a day?  

[phypon]

2 minutes ago, Radar said:

She deleted emails but your claiming you know what was on them. Not a big Hillary supporter. Didn't vote for her but Trump is in my opinion pathetic.

At the same time aren't you then claiming that you know what was not in the emails?  If not, given the suspicious nature of that event it would stand to reason that there was something to hide.  But, this is neither here nor there.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

No employee should limit the right to protest. Specially when work hasnt even started yet. 

 

Now how is taking a knee disrespect anyway???  

 

But its fine Billionaires caved to the President 

Why have you remained silent for 20 years about the NBA limiting rights?  

[MAJBobby]

Also what players are going to stay in the Locker Room? 

 

The league has already blackballed Reid and Kaepernick. So message sent. Listen to us or you are out of the league. 

 

Stand for the flag or else. 

 

Beat you wife, get arrested, carry guns, cheat thats all OK. Protest for a social injustice and well buh bye. 

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

Why have you remained silent for 20 years about the NBA limiting rights?  

 

I dont watch the NBA so i have no idea what they are doing

Edited May 23, 2018 by MAJBobby

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

She has one hit song and all the sudden she gets a day?  

 

I vaguely know who you’re referencing but I think she spells is Lorde lmao

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Also what players are going to stay in the Locker Room? 

 

The league has already blackballed Reid and Kaepernick. So message sent. Listen to us or you are out of the league. 

 

Stand for the flag or else. 

 

Beat you wife, get arrested, carry guns, cheat thats all OK. Protest for a social injustice and well buh bye. 

 

I dont watch the NBA 

Oh, so only the rights of people who play the sport you like matter.  LOL.

 

Ray Rice has been crushing it in the league though.  Good point dude.

Edited May 23, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

 

No employee should limit the right to protest. Specially when work hasnt even started yet. 

 

Now how is taking a knee disrespect anyway???  

 

But its fine Billionaires caved to the President 

 

I feel pretty confident that many (probably most) private employers wouldn't allow employees to protest in their place of employment while working (it's highly debatable at best whether being on the field before kickoff is "not working").

 

If private employers aren't allowed to have workplace behavior policies in place, then we're venturing toward government control of private enterprise.

 

And again, it's fine if you disagree with the owners' decision; that doesn't mean that they aren't within their rights.

[LeviF]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

No employee should limit the right to protest. Specially when work hasnt even started yet. 

 

 

I'm represented by a union at my job.  When our contract runs out we often hold demonstrations.  My employer does not allow me to go to these demonstrations on work time.  Work time is from the time I leave my home for the start of my shift until the time I get home from work at the end of my shift.  If I attend demonstrations on work time, I can be suspended, placed on a lesser duty, and/or charged PTO.  These are reasonable limits on my right to assembly.  Same goes for NFL players.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

Oh so only the rights of people who play the sport you like matter.  LOL

Oooo smart guy tell me how they are doing and I will give you my opinion. I dont watch it so I have no idea what they are doing in terms of limiting rights 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Oooo smart guy tell me how they are doing and I will give you my opinion. I dont watch it so I have no idea what they are doing in terms of limiting rights 

They have been forced to stand for the anthem for 20 years.  It's a rule.  Dope.

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

The Sabbath is Saturday and always has been.

 

Sunday is the LORDs day

If you want to be technical, the Sabbath includes Friday as well. 

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said:

They have been forced to stand for the anthem for 20 years.  It's a rule.  Dope.

 

 

Then it is also a **** one dooe

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I feel pretty confident that many (probably most) private employers wouldn't allow employees to protest in their place of employment while working (it's highly debatable at best whether being on the field before kickoff is "not working").

 

If private employers aren't allowed to have workplace behavior policies in place, then we're venturing toward government control of private enterprise.

 

And again, it's fine if you disagree with the owners' decision; that doesn't mean that they aren't within their rights.

 

This. ANY and ALL arguments about the first amendment are null and void when it comes to someone's job.

 

I can't walk into work with a vulgar t-shirt on and expect to keep my job. It's against my employer's rules, even if it's protected under the first amendment.

 

Leftists just need to get the !@#$ over it.

[Buffalo716]

Just now, K-9 said:

If you want to be technical, the Sabbath includes Friday as well. 

 

But I understand your point. Sandy Koufax REFUSED to pitch in a World Series game because it fell on Yom Kippur iirc

 

I guess a very conservative Christian can refuse to play on the LORDs day but he probably shouldn’t be playing football then because 95% of NFL games fall on Sunday 

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Then it is also a **** one dooe

And you didn't care.  At all.  

 

You're such a victim to headlines.  It's kinda outrageous.  You remained ignorant to a "HORRIBLE INJUSTICE" for 20 years.  

 

Joke.

Edited May 23, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[starrymessenger]

15 minutes ago, Radar said:

She deleted emails but your claiming you know what was on them. Not a big Hillary supporter. Didn't vote for her but Trump is in my opinion pathetic.

 

Well maybe she shouldn't have used a private server but the Prez conducts the nation's business on a burner phone.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

But I understand your point. Sandy Koufax REFUSED to pitch in a World Series game because it fell on Yom Kippur iirc

 

I guess a very conservative Christian can refuse to play on the LORDs day but he probably shouldn’t be playing football then because 95% of NFL games fall on Sunday 

I’m just asking the question about whether he could be compelled even though his religious beliefs are a preotected right. I don’t want to get into the weeds about whether he should be an NFL player or not. Let’s not over think this.

[The Red King]

And still the point is ignored, so one more time for those in the back...

 

The NFL is an employer, a workplace.  The players are the employees.  Employers are free to set policies for their employees while their employees are on the clock.  If the employees do not like the terms, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

 

NFL players no more have a right to kneel during the anthem then I do to wear a "F*** TRUMP!" shirt into work and not expect to get called into my boss' office.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, K-9 said:

I’m just asking the question about whether he could be compelled even though his religious beliefs are a preotected right. I don’t want to get into the weeds about whether he should be an NFL player or not. Let’s not over think this.

 

Uh, it's kind of germane.

 

If someone signs a contract and refuses to play for any reason, he's in violation of the contract and can be terminated.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, K-9 said:

I’m just asking the question about whether he could be compelled even though his religious beliefs are a preotected right. I don’t want to get into the weeds about whether he should be an NFL player or not. Let’s not over think this.

Didn't the NFL fine a Muslim WR for going to his knees in celebration?  And then reversed it?

[LeviF]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m just asking the question about whether he could be compelled even though his religious beliefs are a preotected right. I don’t want to get into the weeds about whether he should be an NFL player or not. Let’s not over think this.

 

It's a "reasonable accommodation" standard.  Could he have been compelled?  Yes, but who was gonna fire Sandy Koufax?

Edited May 23, 2018 by LeviF91

[Buffalo716]

Just now, K-9 said:

I’m just asking the question about whether he could be compelled even though his religious beliefs are a preotected right. I don’t want to get into the weeds about whether he should be an NFL player or not. Let’s not over think this.

 

I’m not saying he shouldn’t have the right lol I’m a very conservative Catholic and I played for over 15 years. Let them play

 

Im saying an NFL player should rethink his profession if he will not attend games on Sundays because religious beliefs 

 

He’d be a glorified practice player

[MAJBobby]

Just now, The Red King said:

And still the point is ignored, so one more time for those in the back...

 

The NFL is an employer, a workplace.  The players are the employees.  Employers are free to set policies for their employees while their employees are on the clock.  If the employees do not like the terms, they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

 

NFL players no more have a right to kneel during the anthem then I do to wear a "F*** TRUMP!" shirt into work and not expect to get called into my boss' office.

 

Collectively Bargined employees. So was this change in business policy conducted iaw with the CBA and what concession did the NFL give?

[SouthNYfan]

21 minutes ago, K-9 said:

This got me thinking. What if players, especially those high recognition, high merchandise selling, STAR players, decided that playing on the Sabbath conflicted with their religious beliefs. Could they be compelled to play because they are employed by a private business?

 

Very interesting.

I believe that it might already be in their contracts /CBA in regards to that, such as playing on Thanksgiving/etc as well.

I wonder though what would happen if that player decided to not play those days, right?

Would he not get paid?

Interesting thought.

 

My job is in a medical facility.

We aren't open weekends for PT.

If we started opening weekends I'm sure I couldn't tell my boss "sorry, I have church".

Interesting conversation though.

 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Uh, it's kind of germane.

 

If someone signs a contract and refuses to play for any reason, he's in violation of the contract and can be terminated.

So contract law trumps his protected right of free exercise of religion? It would be an interesting case.