Zay Jones and His New QB

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Mickey said:

I don't think Tyrod's passes were all that catchable as they too often required the WR to contort himself into awkward positions to try to get their hands on a pass that was off target. I recall Sammy Watkins injured himself on a TD pass he caught that was low and behind him and in an awkward spot (so close to his legs he couldn't extend but had to twist).

 

 

That's from the Bengals game. EJ threw that pass.

[KD in CA]

Zay is going to be a pleasant surprise this year.  Only fools would write him off at this stage of his career.

[Mickey]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

That's from the Bengals game. EJ threw that pass.

Well color me em-bare-assed!

[thunderingsquid]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

Torn labrum all year.  A healed shoulder should help things immensely.  

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said:

Torn labrum all year.  A healed shoulder should help things immensely.  

If that were true, and it significantly hurt his ability to catch the ball, run patterns, track the ball, make plays, break tackles, etc, it was treasonous that he didn't tell the coaches that his injury didn't allow him to be a bona fide threat. I think that is an excuse for his poor play. Sure, guys play with injuries all the time, and it may hurt their production. 85% of a great player is still a very good player and warrants being on the field. But his was close to zero at times. if it really affected his play it was incumbent upon him to get himself out of the game. 

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Zay is going to be a pleasant surprise this year.  Only fools would write him off at this stage of his career.

 

 

I think there is a big difference between writing him off aka demanding his release and not giving him the benefit of the doubt.  

 

What is foolish is EXPECTING him to turn into the star WR that they anxiously traded up for and expected to start opposite Watkins as a rookie.

 

This team has terribly handled the WR position since McD took over..........as evidenced by the results of Watkins/Woods/Goodwin and the awful performances of Jones/Matthews/Benjamin.    

 

The only plus move they made was getting Deonte Thompson.......who was just OK and even him they let go.    

 

They are counting on a whole lot from Zay and a bunch of UDFA's to fill WR2-WR6 positions........it's almost unbelievable the WR corps is this shaky when they are trying to break in young QB's McCarron/Allen.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 hours ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

Josh Allen?    Two things

 

1. Lets worry about him earning the job first.   
2. Not every pass has to be be a frozen rope.

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

I don't think Tyrod's passes were all that catchable as they too often required the WR to contort himself into awkward positions to try to get their hands on a pass that was off target. I recall Sammy Watkins injured himself on a TD pass he caught that was low and behind him and in an awkward spot (so close to his legs he couldn't extend but had to twist).

 

 

Where's the banned jm2009 to say EJ threw his receivers into danger??????  

[BigBuff423]

6 hours ago, Tsaikotic said:

I remember when it used to take 2 - 3 years for a WR to adjust to the NFL..now they have to be good day 1....didnt Jones have a wrist problem all season also??..

 

It was a torn labrum, which is equally problematic. And you’re right, the microwave mentality tends to be over reactive for fans as they “demand” players to be All Pro in their Rookie season. It generally takes time.!

[Tsaikotic]

4 hours ago, teef said:

 

if you have to ask, you can't afford it.  

is that beerfest?

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

they “demand” players to be All Pro in their Rookie season. It generally takes time.!

 

Did someone in this thread demand Zay Jones be an all pro in his rookie season? I didn't see that. I think even an average rookie season would have been fine. If he had shown a single decent trait, that would have been a sign for hope. We go through this every year. Someone has an awful rookie season, everyone pretends rookies always suck, and they're off the team within 3 years.

Edited May 2, 2018 by HappyDays

[BuffaloHokie13]

17 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Where's the banned jm2009 to say EJ threw his receivers into danger?????? 

That WAS EJ in that clip though  

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Tsaikotic said:

is that beerfest?

it sure is.

[BigBuff423]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Did someone in this thread demand Zay Jones be an all pro in his rookie season? I didn't see that. I think even an average rookie season would have been fine. If he had shown a single decent trait, that would have been a sign for hope. We go through this every year. Someone has an awful rookie season, everyone pretends rookies always suck, and they're off the team within 3 years.

 

Then you conveniently forget he just started to find his groove when he was tripped in the Jets game....AND A TORN LABRUM!! Which, you know, effects the ability to extend your arms to make a catch...?!!! 

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Try harder.

Yup you will notice '16 and '17.  Almost a full season in 17 but in a new Offense.  When healthy Sammy is a beast and went and got a lot of those balls.  I couldn't even fathom his numbers with Rogers or Brady.  He made TT look good not the other way around.  Again nice try.

[H2o]

47 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Josh Allen?    Two things

 

1. Lets worry about him earning the job first.   
2. Not every pass has to be be a frozen rope.

Shady, do you honestly expect McCarron to beat Allen out in TC/Preseason for the starting spot? I have my reservations about Allen, but I don't think this will be a problem for him. I think Allen starts from day 1 here, but that's just me. I know that he can throw with touch because he threw a few beautiful touch passes in the Senior Bowl. I am thinking more of those routes where he rips one in there because he has a tight window and sees an opportunity. If Zay let's those passes pop off of his pads or go through his hands it could create turnovers. It's the same for any WR, but I single him out because of everything we saw last year. Like I said before, I hope he rights the ship this year. 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

I think Zay Jones just had a horrible rookie season.  It happens.  I am confident that he'll bounce back and catch passes like he did in college.

 

Yeah, how did his college QB throw the ball? Let’s do THAT! 

 

I wonder if Allen has a reputation for breaking receivers fingers the way Favre did... Maybe that was the problem! My son’s HS team had some kids who had chances to block kicks and punts, but alligator armed it to avoid a boo-boo on their arms. Game film was both infuriating....and hysterical!  

[BuffaloHokie13]

42 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Yup you will notice '16 and '17.  Almost a full season in 17 but in a new Offense.  When healthy Sammy is a beast and went and got a lot of those balls.  I couldn't even fathom his numbers with Rogers or Brady.  He made TT look good not the other way around.  Again nice try.

Do you even understand what you're arguing? Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod as his QB. That is not disputable, it's a fact. Most Yards, Most Yards per Reception, Most TDs, Most receptions per game, and highest catch %.

[Dr. K]

7 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Name one credible WR that had a better year here with Tyrod than with his prior team?

Or his post-Bills team. Look at Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin the minute they got away from Tyrod. 

[Skins Malone]

7 hours ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

It shouldnt matter Zay Jones needs to catch the ball period

[Dr. K]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think there is a big difference between writing him off aka demanding his release and not giving him the benefit of the doubt.  

 

What is foolish is EXPECTING him to turn into the star WR that they anxiously traded up for and expected to start opposite Watkins as a rookie.

 

This team has terribly handled the WR position since McD took over..........as evidenced by the results of Watkins/Woods/Goodwin and the awful performances of Jones/Matthews/Benjamin.    

 

The only plus move they made was getting Deonte Thompson.......who was just OK and even him they let go.    

 

They are counting on a whole lot from Zay and a bunch of UDFA's to fill WR2-WR6 positions........it's almost unbelievable the WR corps is this shaky when they are trying to break in young QB's McCarron/Allen.

This

[TigerJ]

7 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

Yes.  I'm hoping the difference will be noticeable.  

[grb]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

Or his post-Bills team. Look at Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin the minute they got away from Tyrod. 

 

Sigh.

Three points :

• The Bills have been a heavily RUN FIRST TEAM the past three seasons. It was announced they would be run-first way back in the earliest Days of Rex, before Taylor even signed as a free agent. They had the second most rushing attempts in the NFL in both 2015 and 2016. They had the lowest number of passing attempts in the NFL those same years. Now, I'm not a Doctor like the poster above, but I'm willing to postulate a correlation between number of attempts and how many shots a receiver gets at the damn ball. Yep, I'm going out on a limb here, but there seems some kind of relationship there. 
• As for Woods, what's interesting is he was clearly the secondary choice for Taylor, with Watkins the go-to-guy. As BuffaloHokie13 points out above, SW shined with Taylor in a way not seen with any other quarterback. Then both receivers go to Los Angeles / Goff, and everything is completely reversed. Woods gets the majority of the targets and Watkins' numbers shrivel to anemic lows. I haven't seen too many theories on this inversion - whether it's a factor of qb-style, skill-set, or just the relationship that can develop between passer and receiver.
• Once again (for the gawdforsaken zillionth time), there was nothing wrong with TT passing to Woods and Watkins, except they were on the same field together only 15 games over two seasons. The result? 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 td passes. 6 ints. For the sake of comparison, let's look at Goff's 16 game season last year, throwing to the same players: 62.1% comp. 7.98 ypa. 28 td passes. 7 ints. 

Of course if all you can see is total number of passing attempts.........

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

 

Supposedly shoulder injury he had predraft that he told no one about.  Pretty dishonest.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Do you even understand what you're arguing? Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod as his QB. That is not disputable, it's a fact. Most Yards, Most Yards per Reception, Most TDs, Most receptions per game, and highest catch %.

Yup. I had my problems with Tyrod but He has it working with Sammy.  They did Tyrod a big disservice by trading him before the season.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Shady, do you honestly expect McCarron to beat Allen out in TC/Preseason for the starting spot? I have my reservations about Allen, but I don't think this will be a problem for him. I think Allen starts from day 1 here, but that's just me. I know that he can throw with touch because he threw a few beautiful touch passes in the Senior Bowl. I am thinking more of those routes where he rips one in there because he has a tight window and sees an opportunity. If Zay let's those passes pop off of his pads or go through his hands it could create turnovers. It's the same for any WR, but I single him out because of everything we saw last year. Like I said before, I hope he rights the ship this year. 

Honestly I don’t know what will happen.    

 

To say that Allen will definitively beat out AJ is what I think a huge leap of faith.  

 

Time will tell.  

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Do you even understand what you're arguing? Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod as his QB. That is not disputable, it's a fact. Most Yards, Most Yards per Reception, Most TDs, Most receptions per game, and highest catch %.

And so was Zay Jones and your point.  Your argument isn't even logical.

[stuvian]

Zay would have a better chance of getting open if he ran the route naked and screaming 

[WideRightRevenge]

I think Zay ate all the slices of humble pie in his rookie season ... think he thought he could come in and bring his game from ECU and dominate like he did there ... but he quickly found out the NFL is not the American Athletic Conference regardless of your NFL bloodlines  ... got out there week 1 and puckered ... and week 2 (I was at the Carolina game) ... and so on all season long .. he got his shoulder fixed ... I am rooting for the kid ... though can't explain the LA incident.

 

In 2018 he's putting on a garter belt and going to breathe through his eyelids .. he'll be fine.

[Teddy KGB]

21 hours ago, grb said:

 

The only time Taylor ever had a Number One & Two receiver on the field that wasn't a cripple, cast-off, or painfully-overwhelmed rookie was the 15 games from 2015-2016 when Woods and Watkins were both healthy. In two years that's the amount of games both were on the field with Taylor : Fifteen.

 

When they were, Taylor's numbers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 ints.

 

Obviously, it was a heavily run-first offense, so the bulk numbers weren't there. But the ypa is top-of-the-league grade, the tds would have tied for tenth (with Kirk Cousins) using last season as a benchmark, and the interception number was exceptional. The problem with Taylor was he had less&less to work with each successive season with the Bills. By last year, with Matthews hobbled, Benjamin hobbled, Jones a deer in the headlights, Clay out a hunk of the season and often unable to practice, and everyone else other-team-rejects, it was particularly obvious. The damage to the running game by scheme change didn't help, and pass protection was spotty at best. What'll happen in Cleveland? We'll see........

 

 

Go tell the Browns board.     

[LEBills]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but Josh Allen said the first teammate he texted after being drafted was Yarborough. The second was Zay Jones.

 

the two had met at the bills training facility when Allen came for his ore-draft visit. I like hearing that because it means Zay was putting in extra, needed work. It also sounds like Zay and Allen are comfortable with each other and hopefully can be the QB/WR combo this team needs eventually.

[grb]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Go tell the Browns board.     

 

Or - as an alternative - I could wait until the season begins, wait until some games are played, wait until Taylor's performance as a Brown becomes a thread in this forum, and then tell it to you. But will you show up to hear? That's the question.......

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by grb

[formerlyofCtown]

On 5/2/2018 at 10:01 AM, grb said:

 

The only time Taylor ever had a Number One & Two receiver on the field that wasn't a cripple, cast-off, or painfully-overwhelmed rookie was the 15 games from 2015-2016 when Woods and Watkins were both healthy. In two years that's the amount of games both were on the field with Taylor : Fifteen.

 

When they were, Taylor's numbers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 ints.

 

Obviously, it was a heavily run-first offense, so the bulk numbers weren't there. But the ypa is top-of-the-league grade, the tds would have tied for tenth (with Kirk Cousins) using last season as a benchmark, and the interception number was exceptional. The problem with Taylor was he had less&less to work with each successive season with the Bills. By last year, with Matthews hobbled, Benjamin hobbled, Jones a deer in the headlights, Clay out a hunk of the season and often unable to practice, and everyone else other-team-rejects, it was particularly obvious. The damage to the running game by scheme change didn't help, and pass protection was spotty at best. What'll happen in Cleveland? We'll see........

 

Tyrod's only issue is his height.  If he was 6'3".  We wouldn't. Be talking about Josh Allen.  He missed a lot of open targets over the middle.  Unfortunately he went to Warren Moon for advice rather than Drew Brees.  I believe he was buying into it being about race rather than a deficiency he had (his height).  The logical council if it was about race is Warren Moon because he had to deal with that.  If he recognized that he had to overcome height issues it's Brees.  I think once his black coach bring it up he will accept it.

[H2o]

17 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Tyrod's only issue is his height.  If he was 6'3".  We wouldn't. Be talking about Josh Allen.  He missed a lot of open targets over the middle.  Unfortunately he went to Warren Moon for advice rather than Drew Brees.  I believe he was buying into it being about race rather than a deficiency he had (his height).  The logical council if it was about race is Warren Moon because he had to deal with that.  If he recognized that he had to overcome height issues it's Brees.  I think once his black coach bring it up he will accept it.

It's not a height issue imo. You could clearly see Tyrod waiting for a guy to be completely open instead of throwing them open. In the game against the Jags Tyrod threw to the wrong spot for Benjamin instead of going back shoulder. It's things like that why he is no longer here. Gun shy and didn't seem to process what he saw on the field fast enough. Drew doesn't have that problem, Russell doesn't have that problem, and Baker won't have that problem. Zay on the other hand just needs to catch the damn football. 

[keepthefaith]

Frankly I think Zay has his work cut out just to make the team. 

[3rdand12]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:00 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Supposedly shoulder injury he had predraft that he told no one about.  Pretty dishonest.

 

pretty stupid doctors. epic fail.

 

he is full of it. he ran the wrong routes. his timing and steps as the ball came were horrendous.
 

23 hours ago, stuvian said:

Zay would have a better chance of getting open if he ran the route naked and screaming 

well his brother caught him

4 hours ago, H2o said:

It's not a height issue imo. You could clearly see Tyrod waiting for a guy to be completely open instead of throwing them open. In the game against the Jags Tyrod threw to the wrong spot for Benjamin instead of going back shoulder. It's things like that why he is no longer here. Gun shy and didn't seem to process what he saw on the field fast enough. Drew doesn't have that problem, Russell doesn't have that problem, and Baker won't have that problem. Zay on the other hand just needs to catch the damn football. 

it was a height issue and passing lanes than did not open.
and all that other stuff too agreed
Dennison wanted him to drop and throw, the WRs couldn't get open and no timing/trust was ever developed.
Whole thing was tough to watch mostly

[Alphadawg7]

On 5/2/2018 at 6:04 AM, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

 

I have concerns about ZJ regardless who throws the pass.  But yeah, I see your point...Allen has got a cannon, so ZJ has a lot to prove to be effective in the NFL, and proving he can catch a bullet pass is one more thing on the list.  

 

I still have belief ZJ can turn it around, but like most people, I need to see it.  The issues were more than one thing with him...he ran bad routes, had poor focus, mentally fell back, and had clumsy hands.  It would be one thing if he was good in most areas and just needed to fix one part of his game, but man, he struggled in most phases.  

 

Lets just hope it was mostly a confidence issue and that he can come in and get that swagger back and put it behind him.  His offseason sure didnt do him any favors.  

[Punching Bag]

I think Zay's issue was his coach.  He coached him in college but NFL is different and he had trouble changing  way to teach him since he was teaching him before. I thought Sanjay Lal was very good WR coach but he was dumped for the one year coach from Eastern Carolina.

[Sky Diver]

He was thinking too much and not just reacting, imo.

[Hebert19]

Go back and read Zays post combine draft stuff.  It might make you feel better.  Natural hands catcher that snatches the ball from the air...ran a 4.45 yadda yadda

 

I'm going to give him the injury and rookie struggles and still think he could be a good number 2