Zay Jones and His New QB

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

He was certainly near the bottom in catch rate, but I believe that's just "passes he caught/passes where he was IDd as the target"  - no adjustment for whether or not the ball was within his catch radius.  He was definitely struggling though.  Even Mama Jones (his mom) burned him for that.

 

 

That was still funny as hell.

I hope he works out I like the kid

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

 

How long did it take Eric Moulds to develop into a top receiver?

 

Answer: He wasn't good until his 3rd yr.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm

Most WRs take a good 3 seasons before they fully develop, anyone who plays fantasy football knows that. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by The Jokeman

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

Timing seemed to be an issue with Tyrod and ZJ.  There were certainly other issues but the two never seemed to be on the same page.  Hopefully, both put in enough work to establish a chemistry.  Just have to wait to find out.

 

Yep. Exactly this.

 

Zay knows how to catch a football. He just needs to get on the same page with his QB and build some confidence.

[teef]

 

1 hour ago, skibum said:

What's a ZJ?

if you have to ask, you can't afford it.  

Edited May 2, 2018 by teef

[CLTbills]

I think with a more rhythm/timing-oriented quarterback, a lot of this will be remedied. When you're waiting for a pass to be thrown and you feel like you're about to get killed because the QB waited so long to release, I could see how that would affect your head/focus/concentration. I understand that the other guys didn't have these problems.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Kid had bad luck. He was just starting to look like a viable NFL weapon in the away game to New York but he got injured. Already had a TD and was going to break a long one before the opposing CB tripped him and injured him. 

 

I think he might like playing with Josh Allen.

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

 

How long did it take Eric Moulds to develop into a top receiver?

 

Answer: He wasn't good until his 3rd yr.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm

So true.  Many fans were saying he was a bust.  Then that third year he turned into a beast and just started dominating.  

 

Not saying Zay will turn into Moulds, but he has the talent to be a very good pro.  Before last season he was known for catching everything.  No reason he can't get back to that.  

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

I think Zay Jones just had a horrible rookie season.  It happens.  I am confident that he'll bounce back and catch passes like he did in college.

Yeah, he lost his confidence.  Not a great start to his offseason and I wanted JuJu. But he gets a clean slate with me.  If he does bust, it will only add to my doubts about this staff’s ability to show offense.

[buffalover4life]

Im of the opinion that Zay was thinking too much about the catch. Tyrod had below NFL average arm talent(was a baller though), Josh has one of the strongest the league has seen. Whether he is accurate and can throw with anticipation consistently remains to be seen.

 

That said I think Zay will think less while the ball is in the air and make more ridiculous catches this year. His best catches were ones where he had to make serious adjustments, not really able to think, just react. 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Zay had real problems tracking the ball in the air on passes downfield. Just godawful. Those had nothing to do with injuries. Hopefully he will improve. The yips I expect will improve. 

 

Also the main reason Moulds had poor stats early was that Marv hated playing rookies. We had decent veterans ahead of him but Marv screwed him over to some degree. It was at least as much that he wasn't afforded the chance as it was he took some time. He was better than guys in front of him but had to wait his turn. 

 

 

Yes like that play in Atlanta where he got wide open over the defense and Taylor dropped a perfect pass in...........and Zay jumped at it and dropped it..........that was some crazy high school looking **** from a wide receiver.

 

He was truly garbage last year.........terrible routes......couldn't track the ball.........went from a guy who can catch any throw within 8 feet of him in college to a guy who can't catch a perfect throw on his hands......it was a sight to behold and one of the worst rookie seasons in Bills history.    Arguably the league's worst receiver.

 

Now MAYBE he can come back from that...........but COUNTING on him to be the #2 or #3 WR after THAT awful of a season and fully knowing the crazy **** where he almost killed himself this offseason and the family history of mental illness........!@#$ that!

 

Dropzone Jones is not worthy of any confidence.    I expect nothing from him until proven he can do otherwise.   

 

 

[Cripple Creek]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

He’ll be catching balls from McC this season.

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

I somewhat bought that until was it Alshon Jeffrey who had and played with the same injury? But then proceeded to rip it In the playoffs/superbowl lol

[mileena]

2 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

How long did it take Eric Moulds to develop into a top receiver?

 

Answer: He wasn't good until his 3rd yr.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoulEr00.htm

 

This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

Zay Jones is a bust, period.

Edited May 2, 2018 by mileena

[Bills757]

16 minutes ago, buffalover4life said:

Im of the opinion that Zay was thinking too much about the catch. Tyrod had below NFL average arm talent(was a baller though), Josh has one of the strongest the league has seen. Whether he is accurate and can throw with anticipation consistently remains to be seen.

 

That said I think Zay will think less while the ball is in the air and make more ridiculous catches this year. His best catches were ones where he had to make serious adjustments, not really able to think, just react. 

Taylor's arm strength was just fine.  And his touch on the deep ball was certainly in the upper tier for NFL QB's when Watkins and Harvin were healthy.  The Bills simply had no deep threat once Watkins, Harvin, Goodwin et al left.

 

Harvin  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0mPpSEzRZ4

Clay      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebSknJ36AxA

Watkins  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISCzWFn43Q&t=14s

Edited May 2, 2018 by Bills757

[teef]

Just now, mileena said:

 

This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler and Jerry Rice:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

 

Zay Jones is a bust, period.

this is when you know you're dealing with awesome.

[buffalover4life]

8 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

Taylor's arm strength was just fine.  And his touch on the deep ball was certainly in the upper tier for NFL QB's when Watkins and Harvin were healthy.  The Bills simply had no deep threat once Watkins, Harvin, Goodwin et al left.

 

Harvin  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0mPpSEzRZ4

Clay      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebSknJ36AxA

Watkins  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISCzWFn43Q&t=14s

Im talking about ball velocity. Not ability to throw the deep ball. I know 10 people that can throw the ball 50 yards. I liked Tyrod but he did not have an upper tier arm. 

 

Its not how far you throw it but the angle at which the ball is going to its target. Josh Allens, Staffords, Rodgers,  Mayfields deep balls go on a trajectory that the ball gets there sooner, while arms like tyrod and Ryan Fitzpatrick have to put significantly more air under it so the ball is in the air longer.

 

Which brings me back to the point, Zay wont have time to overthink the catch

Edited May 2, 2018 by buffalover4life

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, mileena said:

 

This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler and Jerry Rice:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

 

Zay Jones is a bust, period.

As said above, Marv didn't like playing young guys if he could afford not to. The Bills still had Andre at the end of his career and signed Quinn Early as a free agent to start opposite. Moulds was probably better than both of them early but rode the bench. Early was a major disappointment. It wasn't because Moulds took so long. He did run some bad routes and missed some assignments. But you could see the rare size, speed, skills

[HappyDays]

43 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Zay had real problems tracking the ball in the air on passes downfield. Just godawful.

 

People overstate how good he was in college. Most of his production came on screens and quick short passes. I don't think he had to track the ball much at ECU. It's a real concern.

[mileena]

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

As said above, Marv didn't like playing young guys if he could afford not to. The Bills still had Andre at the end of his career and signed Quinn Early as a free agent to start opposite. Moulds was probably better than both of them early but rode the bench. Early was a major disappointment. It wasn't because Moulds took so long. He did run some bad routes and missed some assignments. But you could see the rare size, speed, skills

 

True. I just said he was still living under Reed's shadow for the first two years, for whatever reason. In this case, as you said, Marv preferred more experienced players.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Plus, I think for all athletes, confidence is a factor which is why there are streaks.  When a guy struggles early-on, especially a young guy, it seems it can get in his head and carry on to the next play.

 

This is a great point.  Another poster pointed out that Zay started earlier than intended due to how thin the Bills were at the WR position.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Happy Gilmore said:

This is a great point.  Another poster pointed out that Zay started earlier than intended due to how thin the Bills were at the WR position.

 

It's actually IMO a highly relevant point.  Zay was a high pick, and you want those guys to be starters fairly quickly, but you'd normally expect him to be the #3 or the situational guy and work his way up, instead of being thrust into the limelight and left there no matter what due to no alternatives.

 

We've got a known developmental prospect at QB, and no proven starter above him.  I think it's a legit concern whether these Bills coaches will let him develop as he needs, or thrust him in before he is ready because of this.  I am really pulling for AJ McC to do well so that our coaches feel like it's a choice to play Allen when he's ready, and not before.

[BillsfanAZ]

22 minutes ago, buffalover4life said:

Im talking about ball velocity. Not ability to throw the deep ball. I know 10 people that can throw the ball 50 yards. I liked Tyrod but he did not have an upper tier arm. 

 

Its not how far you throw it but the angle at which the ball is going to its target. Josh Allens, Staffords, Rodgers,  Mayfields deep balls go on a trajectory that the ball gets there sooner, while arms like tyrod and Ryan Fitzpatrick have to put significantly more air under it so the ball is in the air longer.

 

Which brings me back to the point, Zay wont have time to overthink the catch

I think you make a good point. Even if we are just talking about 20-30 yard passes down the field, it seemed Taylor needed a bigger window to throw it into than his WR's could provide. Then when he had WR's open, he sometimes didnt see them. From watching Allen's game tapes it looks like he has no problem seeing guys or trying to fit it into tight windows. That might get him in trouble more often in the NFL but he will make some throws that a lot of guys cant make....especially when he is on the move. If Wyoming WR's can catch Allens balls, the Bills WR's should have no issues. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

This is a great point.  Another poster pointed out that Zay started earlier than intended due to how thin the Bills were at the WR position.

 

 

They drafted him with the intention of starting him opposite Watkins............so no he didn't start earlier than intended..........what they didn't intend was for a seemingly pro-ready son of a former NFL player to play so stunningly poorly.

 

Do people actually think that the Bills hoped Andre Holmes was going to be the #2 WR?   Really?

Edited May 2, 2018 by BADOLBILZ

[Sky Diver]

36 minutes ago, mileena said:

 

This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

Zay Jones is a bust, period.

 

Did you watch Mould play his first 2 yrs?

[BuffaloHokie13]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

People overstate how good he was in college. Most of his production came on screens and quick short passes. I don't think he had to track the ball much at ECU. It's a real concern.

I think this will be one of the biggest benefits of Daboll. His most recent stint was in college, so he is very familiar with how to dial back the offense enough to maximize the production of some one still learning.

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

I agree with you on Tyrod. But, i have been watching Allen's game tape (posted by Domdb99- https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/205411-josh-allen-game-film-links/) and I have to say that Allen has a much better touch on the ball than I would have thought. Yes, he can rifle it. But, he often floated it when necessary. It should also be noted that he was playing with a less-than-stellar receiving corp in Wyoming. So, this will all be on Zay. Sad that we're hoping our current #2 can develop into a decent #2.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

That's a random qualifier. Thompson barely did better and in Chicago he had Mike Glennon throwing to him. Which is the point. These WRs will do better with better QBs throwing to them. That isn't really arguable.

 

How many Bills WR's have left the team to do better with other QBs? Woods? Goodwin? Hogan? 

Can we go back to this for a second? In 4 games with Mike Glennon, he had 11 catches for 125 yards and 1 TD. In his first 4 games with Tyrod he had 13 catches for 203 yards and 1 TD. Heck, he was 18 yards shy of his yard total on the season in his first appearance for the Bills.

[Jay_Fixit]

57 minutes ago, mileena said:

 

This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

Zay Jones is a bust, period.

Took till Wednesday morning, but we’re in worst post of the week territory.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

They drafted him with the intention of starting him opposite Watkins............so no he didn't start earlier than intended..........what they didn't intend was for a seemingly pro-ready son of a former NFL player to play so stunningly poorly.

 

Do people actually think that the Bills hoped Andre Holmes was going to be the #2 WR?   Really?

 

I think they were expecting #2 to be Jordan Matthews, who led the Iggles WR for yardage in 2016.  I believe they were expecting Jones to contribute, but in any event...

 

...even if they did as you say intend him to start #2 opposite Watkins, then what happens when you trade Watkins away? 

 

He was asked to play a larger role on the field than was planned during the spring due to trades and injuries at WR, that seems pretty clear.  And yes, of course they were expecting him to step up in the role, not to falter, but that happens with rookies.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think they were expecting #2 to be Jordan Matthews, who led the Iggles WR for yardage in 2016.  I believe they were expecting Jones to contribute, but in any event...

 

...even if they did as you say intend him to start #2 opposite Watkins, then what happens when you trade Watkins away? 

 

He was asked to play a larger role on the field than was planned during the spring due to trades and injuries at WR, that seems pretty clear.  And yes, of course they were expecting him to step up in the role, not to falter, but that happens with rookies.

Watkins was gone when we acquired Matthews. He was supposed to be a replacement. But he was 4th string on Philly by that point and him being a #1 in 2016 was a big reason why Wentz needed upgraded weapons that offseason.

[Buffalo716]

This actually worries me a bit...

 

im not sure if Zay can catch a ball from Allen... he struggled catching TTs ball

[Buffalo716]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I'm not worried. 

 

If Zay has another bad year it will actually force these guys to go out and prioritize the position. Something they should still do even if Zay has a bounce back season. 

 

100% should be a priority  through MC, TC and preseason through next year

 

upgrade the WR position 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, mileena said:

 

This is patently incorrect. Eric Moulds was living under Andre Reed's shadow his first two years. Barring injury, WR's are either a star their first year or not, unlike QB. Cases in point: Jerry Butler, Jerry Rice, and Sammy Watkins:

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jerrybutler/2510828/profile

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RiceJe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

Zay Jones is a bust, period.

 

 

I guess the good good news is K Benjamin is a star? 

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod.

He would have to have had another year of being healthy, but nice try.

[Happy]

55 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They drafted him with the intention of starting him opposite Watkins............so no he didn't start earlier than intended..........what they didn't intend was for a seemingly pro-ready son of a former NFL player to play so stunningly poorly.

 

Do people actually think that the Bills hoped Andre Holmes was going to be the #2 WR?   Really?

 

Given what he did in Oakland, stepping up to the #2 role is not an unreasonable expectation.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmAn00.htm

[BADOLBILZ]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think they were expecting #2 to be Jordan Matthews, who led the Iggles WR for yardage in 2016.  I believe they were expecting Jones to contribute, but in any event...

 

...even if they did as you say intend him to start #2 opposite Watkins, then what happens when you trade Watkins away? 

 

He was asked to play a larger role on the field than was planned during the spring due to trades and injuries at WR, that seems pretty clear.  And yes, of course they were expecting him to step up in the role, not to falter, but that happens with rookies.

 

 

You've forgotten the order of things.............Matthews and Watkins trades went down at the same time............immediately following the Bills first preseason game in mid-August..........Matthews wasn't ever on the roster with Watkins.    

 

About 3 and a half months earlier Zay Jones was drafted........at which point the depth chart was WR1 Watkins and WR2 Andre Holmes..........which like I said was laughable since Holmes had basically been a reserve special teamer for a couple years.     

[OldTimer1960]

3 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Dropped everything in sight. Ran the wrong route in Carolina and single-handedly cost the team a win. Then, the offseason stuff..

 

Only way to go is up.

He was a rookie and lots of rookie receivers struggle.  I don’t KNOW that he will improve, but it won’t surprise me if he does.

[BuffaloHokie13]

12 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

He would have to have had another year of being healthy, but nice try.

Try harder.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Given what he did in Oakland, stepping up to the #2 role is not an unreasonable expectation.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HolmAn00.htm

 

 

 

This is like the people trying to sell Rod Streater as a legit top 3 WR option this year because he had one decent season 5 years ago.

 

Andre Holmes one decent season was more recent........why are we ruling him out as the #2? 

 

Oh yeah because we saw him and are aware that he is a marginal NFL player let alone a guy you want facing another teams top DB's.

 

The NFL is about matchups folks..........you can't just march any WR out there. 

[Mickey]

I don't think Tyrod's passes were all that catchable as they too often required the WR to contort himself into awkward positions to try to get their hands on a pass that was off target. I recall Sammy Watkins injured himself on a TD pass he caught that was low and behind him and in an awkward spot (so close to his legs he couldn't extend but had to twist).

 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Mickey