Forget Allen, Mayfield, Rosen or Darnold...Are You OK with Drafting Mason Rudolph?

[CuddyDark]

Yep. Predicted this would be the pick at 12. He's just their kind of player. I don't think they care about talent in as much as they care about how they can exhaust the talent. If they have similar grades on Allen and Rosen and Rudolph, I think they'd take Rudolph even if he's graded slightly lower.

[All_Pro_Bills]

37 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I think draft night will end up with Rudolph wearing a New England Patriots’ uniform.  I think they will trade ahead of us into the teens to grab him if he is still there after our pick at 12.

 

After two years of watching and learning behind Brady I think Rudolph will be a solid pro QB, much to all of our regret.

 

I hope I’m wrong.

I was thinking the same thing.  If NE picks Rudolph everybody is go say they did a great job and made a smart pick, probably getting the best pocket passer available in the draft.  If the Bills pick him its going to be a reach.  I haven't heard a thing in the football world about what a strategic blunder it was to trade Garoppolo to SF for a 2nd rounder.  They idea I guess was the pick would be at the top of the round and it would be like a late 1st rounder.  The plan backfired when he started and ran up 5 straight wins to close out the season.   They had their successor and outsmarted themselves.  Whoever the Patriots pick I rest easy knowing its 100% certain that he's not going to be as productive as Brady and that team's dominance over the Bills because of the huge advantage behind center is no longer the big edge.

 

As for the Bills, the problem is you just don't know how all these guys are going to translate to the NFL.  I trust Beane knows his stuff, has done his homework, and is prepared for whatever scenarios unfold and will make the best pick given the circumstances.  I'm no expert at college QB's and I've seen all these guys play a game or two and in my view they all have flaws.  Its a question of what they are, can you live with them, and are they correctable?

 

 

[Putin]

8 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I just have to say its both funny and desperate that people are willing to take Allen over Rudolph.

 

All because the media painted him as one of the "big four."

^^^^^^this 

just like Rosen’s 5 minutes interview yesterday , they heard him say he’s willing to work harder then anyone cause he wants to be the GOAT ! And that was it EVERYBODY wants Rosen , 

[ALLEN1QB]

For some reason when all is said and done I think the best QB in this draft is going to be someone that nobody is talking about. 

[Mark80]

If I'm running things I'm taking Lamar over Rudolph at 12.  I'm not considering Rudolph until pick 22. 

 

Willing to trade up for (in order of preference):

Darnold

Mayfield

Rosen

 

Taking at 12 (in order):

Jackson

Allen

 

Considering at 22:

Rudolph

 

When thinking of Rudolph all I can think of is Zach Mettenberger.  Decent arm, huge stats throwing to 2 top level college WRs (Jarvis Landry and OBJ for Mettenberger) who made him look a lot better than he actually was.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Mark80

[gobills1212]

Way to leave a guy hanging!!!

An excellent WHAT???

[Putin]

5 minutes ago, macaroni said:

we need a QB ..... if we can't find a trade partner for the QB we want, then getting Rudolph is a no brainer. I've always thought he was a viable "plan B" @ pick 22 .... but the more I think about how many QB needy teams are out there, I guess Rudolph at pick 12 shouldn't be out of the question.

For example- If Darnold is plan A and is the only QB that McBean is willing to move up and give up bunch of picks for , and Cleveland takes him at 1 

 

Rudolph is plan B , then take him at 12 why gamble and have someone jump in front of you and take him ? Especially team like NE* 

F@$& the LB’s , DT and every other position 

Lets get our QB already , 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

34 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

I just have to say its both funny and desperate that people are willing to take Allen over Rudolph.

 

All because the media painted him as one of the "big four."

There was some quote around the combine from a FO executive. He was asked, “why do football people like Allen more than fans?” His answer, “because we know more about football than they do.” He was then asked, “why are fans higher on Mason Rudolph than football people?” His answer, “because we know more about football than they do.”

 

Take it FWIW and it is one man’s opinion. I couldn’t find the exact quote but you get the point. I’m not saying that it is right or wrong. Allen though isn’t some “media created darling.” He is a product of the scouting community loving his physical skills. The ego believes that their team can harness those gifts. It all remains to be seen but “football people” like Allen more than regular people.

[PIZ]

2 hours ago, racketmaster said:

There are some experts that like Rudolph. Trent Dilfer thinks he is underrated and is very similar to Nick Foles. Steve Fairchild (ex OC) did a deep analysis on Rudolph and has him as a first round talent ahead of Jackson and Mayfield. Chris Trapasso at CBS has had Rudolph as his #1 qb. There are others but your point is generally true in that Rudolph is typically viewed In the second tier of qbs after the top 4 and Jackson. 

 

Thanks.  That gives me a little encouragement, if the Bills go that route.

[hondo in seattle]

I'm screwed.

I'm not okay with going full Ditka to trade up.

 

I'm also not okay with staying pat and drafting our future backup QB (Rudolf, for example) with a later first round pick.

 

 

[blacklabel]

Nah. He's coming out of the same system that made the Browns believe that Brandon Weeden was a first round pick. 

[dbflaBill]

a qb that comes from a 1 read offense, and didnt have to learn how to read coverages? Please no, I wouldnt take him until the third. 

[Beast]

Of course I will support him but I will not be happy tomorrow night.

 

At all.

[Teddy KGB]

Yes.  He will be an upgrade from last years qb’s 

[T master]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think Rudolph could become a good NFL starter.  I would be happy with them selecting him, though I would hope that they could do it a shade later than 12, but not sure they can wait till 22 if they want him.

 

I Agree ! All of the prospects this year have somethings they can work on but in the Bills position i think whoever they draft they will have them sit this year to learn how much faster the NFL is than college seeing as they have AJ .

 

I would rather they take Rudolph later & get say Roquan at 12 but i don't think Rudolph would last until 22 but that would be my dream draft scenario Roquan at 12 & Rudolph at 22 ...

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There was some quote around the combine from a FO executive. He was asked, “why do football people like Allen more than fans?” His answer, “because we know more about football than they do.” He was then asked, “why are fans higher on Mason Rudolph than football people?” His answer, “because we know more about football than they do.”

 

Take it FWIW and it is one man’s opinion. I couldn’t find the exact quote but you get the point. I’m not saying that it is right or wrong. Allen though isn’t some “media created darling.” He is a product of the scouting community loving his physical skills. The ego believes that their team can harness those gifts. It all remains to be seen but “football people” like Allen more than regular people.

 

Yep this. People make such a big deal about completion percentage and numbers and crap like that and want to draft a career backup at 12. Honestly, if a person cannot see the upside of Allen and see the limitations of Rudolph, I don't know what to say. This is about as obvious as it gets and people need to understand that the draft is about upside projection and having a guy who can make NFL throws consistently. That is not Rudolph. He is a third round pick. He is no better than Aj McCarron or Nathan Peterman, in fact I think both have more upside. Therefore, why bother? I may spontaneously combust if we draft him in the first round. If you want to take him in the third to add depth to the position, cool. But taking him in the first, let alone 12, is utter insanity. Fans are projecting something with Rudolph that simply isn't there. They are hopeful that we can get him without trading up and he will somehow be the answer. He simply is not the answer. 

 

I also love the narrative that Allen was surrounded by all of this NFL talent in 2016 and still had some accuracy issues. Who are these guys? Brian Hill, a running back drafted by the Falcons who got cut, wound up on the Bengals practice squad and had like 30 yards rushing. Chase Roullier, a sixth round center who may start for the Redskins this year. Jacob Hollister an UDFA of the Patriots who was their 3rd-4th tight end. Tanner Gentry, an UDFA receiver who was on the Bears practice squad. The bottom line is that this guy played with nobody. I'm all in on Rosen, but anyone who denies the tremendous upside of Allen really has no clue what they are talking about.  

Edited April 25, 2018 by MrEpsYtown

[mead107]

Not drafting him either.  Riley Ferguson is going to be the pick 

[34-78-83]

I think he's the 4th best of the QB's... I'd be OK to MEH getting him at 12, but psyched if we had to wait and plucked him at 22.

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Not drafting him either.  Riley Ferguson is going to be the pick 

 

I think I might hate Rudolph as much as you love Ferguson. 

[Domdab99]

!@#$ no

[Estelle Getty]

Hell no. A one read qb.  uh uh

[JoPar_v2]

Nooooope. A 12 on a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect reeks of a Losman-esque reach.

 

Would rather take BPA (non-qb) and call it a night.

[maryland-bills-fan]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

If I'm running things I'm taking Lamar over Rudolph at 12.  I'm not considering Rudolph until pick 22. 

 

Willing to trade up for (in order of preference):

Darnold

Mayfield

Rosen

 

Taking at 12 (in order):

Jackson

Allen

 

Considering at 22:

Rudolph

 

When thinking of Rudolph all I can think of is Zach Mettenberger.  Decent arm, huge stats throwing to 2 top level college WRs (Jarvis Landry and OBJ for Mettenberger) who made him look a lot better than he actually was.

A few comments.     Did Rudolph make his wide receivers look good, or was it the other way around, or was it both?   .....  I don't think Rudolph will make it to #22.   The Cards, the Ravens, the Steelers and even New England are all candidates to move up and take him.

29 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Yep this. People make such a big deal about completion percentage and numbers and crap like that and want to draft a career backup at 12. Honestly, if a person cannot see the upside of Allen and see the limitations of Rudolph, I don't know what to say. This is about as obvious as it gets and people need to understand that the draft is about upside projection and having a guy who can make NFL throws consistently. That is not Rudolph. He is a third round pick. He is no better than Aj McCarron or Nathan Peterman, in fact I think both have more upside. Therefore, why bother? I may spontaneously combust if we draft him in the first round. If you want to take him in the third to add depth to the position, cool. But taking him in the first, let alone 12, is utter insanity. Fans are projecting something with Rudolph that simply isn't there. They are hopeful that we can get him without trading up and he will somehow be the answer. He simply is not the answer. 

 

I also love the narrative that Allen was surrounded by all of this NFL talent in 2016 and still had some accuracy issues. Who are these guys? Brian Hill, a running back drafted by the Falcons who got cut, wound up on the Bengals practice squad and had like 30 yards rushing. Chase Roullier, a sixth round center who may start for the Redskins this year. Jacob Hollister an UDFA of the Patriots who was their 3rd-4th tight end. Tanner Gentry, an UDFA receiver who was on the Bears practice squad. The bottom line is that this guy played with nobody. I'm all in on Rosen, but anyone who denies the tremendous upside of Allen really has no clue what they are talking about.  

.....but who did they play against?    Allen did smoke Gardner-Webb last year 27-0.    What Allen hasn't done is played against top college players for 3-4 years and succeed.   He did okay his first two years at college at Reedley Community College.    Remember EJ.

[Stank_Nasty]

while I would be disappointed if we didn't nab Mayfield, darnold or rosen. i'm fairly certain I can talk myself into be okay with any of the top 6 guys. pro's and cons to any of those situations.

 

so while i'd be fairly irritated, the fan in me could convince myself to fall in love with any of them by summer time.

[sleeby]

3 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Of course we'd be upset if we don't get a top 4 QB, but even more so if we take him a round or 2 ahead of where he's projected and wasting a pick that we paid so much for. Throw in the fact that none of the 2019 QB's look very good and I don't see how Beane and McD keep their jobs beyond 2019. I'd just get a guy like Lauletta in the 4th or 5th as an emergency option.

 

So you would essentially advocate for firing them for ending the playoff streak?  Cause that's why we landed at 21.  

[Mark80]

16 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

A few comments.     Did Rudolph make his wide receivers look good, or was it the other way around, or was it both?   .....  I don't think Rudolph will make it to #22.   The Cards, the Ravens, the Steelers and even New England are all candidates to move up and take him.

 

 

In the OSU games that I watched during the season I would say it was the WRs making him look good.  I would put money him falling into the 2nd round over a team trading up for him any day of the week.

[BuffaloRush]

I am almost convinced that Rudolph will be the pick 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

.....but who did they play against?    Allen did smoke Gardner-Webb last year 27-0.    What Allen hasn't done is played against top college players for 3-4 years and succeed.   He did okay his first two years at college at Reedley Community College.    Remember EJ.

 

EJ played with some real talent. He was over drafted and was not given a chance to develop. Physically they have some similarities, but EJ's situation is much more like Rudolph, a guy who played with really good players, who made him look good, who gets over drafted. 

 

To me it is hard to watch Allen film, because the guys he played with and the guys he played against all kind of sucked. Playing quarterback in that scenario is really just difficult. I think if you swapped Allen and Rudolph, Allen would have broke a bunch of NCAA records, and Rudolph would be working at Wal- Mart next year. 

[Bray Wyatt]

4 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

the bills didn't trade cordy to move up. it was the compensation vs. a pick.  also, they may end up having to trade spots with oakland just to get rudolph. i personally don't get the knocks on him. his body of work is second to no one except mayfield.

 

i've said it before, i think he can have a peyton manning type of career.

 

Im usually not a guy that likes to call posts dumb, but this is just stupid.

 

Of course they traded to move up! It not like that was the only compensation out there possible for Glenn. If they wanted a 2nd rd pick (which is the equivalent of the trade up so using it as an example) then they would have tried to trade for that. They chose the trade up route because they wanted to move up.

[ndirish1978]

No, I don't like him

[Putin]

2 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Nooooope. A 12 on a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect reeks of a Losman-esque reach.

 

Would rather take BPA (non-qb) and call it a night.

BPA and call it a season 

SMH 

[OldTimer1960]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Yep this. People make such a big deal about completion percentage and numbers and crap like that and want to draft a career backup at 12. Honestly, if a person cannot see the upside of Allen and see the limitations of Rudolph, I don't know what to say. This is about as obvious as it gets and people need to understand that the draft is about upside projection and having a guy who can make NFL throws consistently. That is not Rudolph. He is a third round pick. He is no better than Aj McCarron or Nathan Peterman, in fact I think both have more upside. Therefore, why bother? I may spontaneously combust if we draft him in the first round. If you want to take him in the third to add depth to the position, cool. But taking him in the first, let alone 12, is utter insanity. Fans are projecting something with Rudolph that simply isn't there. They are hopeful that we can get him without trading up and he will somehow be the answer. He simply is not the answer. 

 

I also love the narrative that Allen was surrounded by all of this NFL talent in 2016 and still had some accuracy issues. Who are these guys? Brian Hill, a running back drafted by the Falcons who got cut, wound up on the Bengals practice squad and had like 30 yards rushing. Chase Roullier, a sixth round center who may start for the Redskins this year. Jacob Hollister an UDFA of the Patriots who was their 3rd-4th tight end. Tanner Gentry, an UDFA receiver who was on the Bears practice squad. The bottom line is that this guy played with nobody. I'm all in on Rosen, but anyone who denies the tremendous upside of Allen really has no clue what they are talking about.  

I agree that Allen clearly has more physical talent than Rudolph.   I also agree that Rudolph is a bit of a lumbering athlete.  It is hard for me to see on the videos that I have access to that Rudolph's arm is as weak as some say.  I am surely no scout and there are definitely several reports that scouts view Rudolph's arm as substandard, so you may very well be right.

 

[PIZ]

I was really thinking Rudolph was the guy, until I read this Tom Pelissero take on nfl.com:

 

 

Quote

Could he get pushed up into the first round? Sure, it only takes one team to do it. Some say they'd take Rudolph over Jackson. But I have a hard time projecting Rudolph to go too high, considering how many coaches and scouts have told me they have him graded as a backup. "He's big (6-5, 235). He's got good size. He's done some good things," an AFC coach said. "There's an element of arm strength that's a little frustrating with him. He can throw it deep, but intermediate arm strength -- when he has to put a lot of zip on it -- he sometimes struggles there. He might be the guy who's close to already being what he's going to be, and then, how good is it? Does he ever get to be more than a bottom-end No. 1?" Rudolph put up impressive numbers (92 career touchdowns at Oklahoma State) and has more starting experience than any of the top QBs in the draft besides Mayfield. But everyone who has watched the tape remarks about how often he's throwing to wide-open receivers in the Cowboys' remedial offense. Rudolph's athletic ability is another issue. One quarterbacks coach described Rudolph as "really heavy-footed." His football IQ and intangibles draw mixed reviews, too. Several people who interviewed Rudolph told me they found it hard to warm up to him as a personality and a leader. "I wouldn't touch him until like the fourth round," an AFC scout said. "He's just got a long way to go."

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by PIZ

[OldTimer1960]

55 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

EJ played with some real talent. He was over drafted and was not given a chance to develop. Physically they have some similarities, but EJ's situation is much more like Rudolph, a guy who played with really good players, who made him look good, who gets over drafted. 

 

To me it is hard to watch Allen film, because the guys he played with and the guys he played against all kind of sucked. Playing quarterback in that scenario is really just difficult. I think if you swapped Allen and Rudolph, Allen would have broke a bunch of NCAA records, and Rudolph would be working at Wal- Mart next year. 

I absolutely agree that you almost cannot judge Allen from college tape as his team was so severely out-talented by most competition.  The most meaningless points I've heard are about his performance against Power 5 conference teams.  Well, of course he is under great pressure and none of his receivers can get open against the superior athletes.  He couldn't look good in those situations at all.

 

Still, he does have accuracy problems.  Question is, can they be fixed if he has better protection and some decent receivers? 

 

I kind of think he could end up on about the same level as Cam Newton - or he could be another Derek Anderson.

 

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, OldTimer1960 said:

I absolutely agree that you almost cannot judge Allen from college tape as his team was so severely out-talented by most competition.  The most meaningless points I've heard are about his performance against Power 5 conference teams.  Well, of course he is under great pressure and none of his receivers can get open against the superior athletes.  He couldn't look good in those situations at all.

 

Still, he does have accuracy problems.  Question is, can they be fixed if he has better protection and some decent receivers? 

 

I kind of think he could end up on about the same level as Cam Newton - or he could be another Derek Anderson.

 

Agreed. I think it's a risk reward proposition. I'm taking a shot on a possible Cam, not some guy who could be Drew Stanton. 

 

I think his his issues are fixable and I thought of this when Beane said that all of these guys are flawed, that you have to decide what you are willing to deal with. I think they think they can coach him up. 

[JoPar_v2]

15 minutes ago, Putin said:

BPA and call it a season 

SMH 

Not what I meant - I wasn’t clear. Take the best player at 12 in that case and move forward with the rest of the draft.

[RochesterRob]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Of course we'd be upset if we don't get a top 4 QB, but even more so if we take him a round or 2 ahead of where he's projected and wasting a pick that we paid so much for. Throw in the fact that none of the 2019 QB's look very good and I don't see how Beane and McD keep their jobs beyond 2019. I'd just get a guy like Lauletta in the 4th or 5th as an emergency option.

  Assuming that a move up for QB fails to occur using the 12th overall to get Roquan Smith would not be a waste in my mind.

[oldmanfan]

The people saying he's from a spread, single read offense as a negative.  Isn't that what Mahomes came out of at TT?  Yet people salivated over him last year.

[MarlinTheMagician]

If The Process likes him I am cool with it.  

[Spielman]

I have a feeling that Rudolph will end up being the best QB from this draft.  He has the size, accuracy, good arm strength and most importantly, is very bright.  I was watching him with Mariucci on the white board and I thought he was very impressive. 

34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The people saying he's from a spread, single read offense as a negative.  Isn't that what Mahomes came out of at TT?  Yet people salivated over him last year.

Yes, he was from a spread.  either you're good or you're not..too much emphasis on systems.  Heck, look at Warren Moon....the run n' shoot made him look better than hew was...yeah, right.