rodneykm Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said: Heh? Tell me which is the best QB among the 3,4,5,6 top ones. Tell me which of the top 4 are better than anything we've had in the last 10 years. Answer: Probably all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I want Rosen or Mayfield. I think both are available without selling out. I have no problem moving up before the Dolphins, but I don't think it's necessary to move up to the Giants' 2 at the expense of the 22 and next year's 1st too. I think it's entirely possible that we see both still on the board at pick 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 58 minutes ago, K-9 said: Fracking' QB? That goes to show how much of a meddler TPegs really is. I don't want to get reprimanded...again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 i think there is a fair chance one of the four is available at 12. Don't negotiate against yourself, don't assume anyone but you really, really wants the guy you want. I voted to stay put, but I'm open to moving to #6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Need to split the trade up into two: Trade into top 5 Trade into 5-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I think with this many holes they need to stay put. Who cares what I think? They run the team and will do what they want. We shall see next Thursday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Depends on who it's for and what it costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, ChasBB said: Just as I always suspected - 25% of Bills fans demonstrate intelligence With a statement like that, you just put yourself in the 25%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Need to split the trade up into two: Trade into top 5 Trade into 5-10 First you have to consider whether McBean really likes any/all of the top 4... He may only really like 2 of them for example... And what if Miami decides to trade up (#11, #42, #73) into #4 and we get potentially screwed... McBeane should trade up to #2 and be assured of getting the QB he really wants... In the long run, the extra picks spent on getting to #2 won't mean very much at all... 1 hour ago, ChasBB said: Just as I always suspected - 25% of Bills fans demonstrate intelligence They're the Deplorables... It's good to know that 3 out of 4 people voting "demonstrate intelligence" as you put it... Edited April 19, 2018 by DefenseWins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Chemical said: That would be ideal, but you won't know if he or anyone for that matter will drop until after you pass on trading to #2. Are you willing to take that risk? I was scared of the cost at first then I thought about the Texans. Are they kicking themselves for trading up and giving up what turned into #4 this year? I doubt it. I don’t want to trade the 2019 1st. I also don’t know how closely the Bills have the prospects graded. I would be willing to pay a substantial price if they have a guy that they love followed by a bunch of guys that they like. If they are all pretty close than I’d pay a lesser price and still get a guy that I have a high grade on. It isn’t an easy (or realistic) question IMO. It really does depend. I voted trade up because I am willing to part with some assets. There are trade up scenarios though that I will like less than staying put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DefenseWins said: first you have to consider whether McBean really likes any/all of the top 4... He may only really like 2 of them for example... And what if Miami decides to trade up (#11, #42, #73) into #4 and we get potentially screwed... McBeane should trade up to #2 and be assured of getting the QB he really wants... In the long run, the extra picks spent on getting to #2 won't mean very much at all... I get what you're saying, but at the same time, it's very hard to imagine any team "Jumping" us without our knowledge. We hold the most draft capital of any non-brown team. We set the market because everyone in the top ten that is even considering trading out will be calling us first. We don't want to show our hand until necessary, and we also don't want to overpay for the potential franchise QB. There still needs to be a reasonable limit to what we're willing to spend or else we're Mike Ditka without the mustache. Edited April 19, 2018 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 There are four QBs. Get one. Preferably the best one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I get what you're saying, but at the same time, it's very hard to imagine any team "Jumping" us without our knowledge. We hold the most draft capital of any non-brown team. We set the market because everyone in the top ten that is even considering trading out will be calling us first. We don't want to show our hand until necessary, and we also don't want to overpay for the potential franchise QB. There still needs to be a reasonable limit to what we're willing to spend or else we're Mike Ditka without the mustache. Cleveland calls Beane and says "we have another trade offer for #4". Need to know your "final offer" for #4. What do you tell them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42Knuck Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I still think a deal was struck with Cleveland for #4 at the time of TT trade. I just felt the value they gave us for him was too high considering the team was likely to let him go anyway. It makes more sense that it was tied to a bigger deal to move up. I guess we'll see in a week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 As I said before, it depends who’s there. You don’t trade up for the spot, you trade up for the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I would prefer to trade up to any position if there is a QB the Bills like available. If 3 QB's are off the board with the 1st 3 picks I think we will keep our picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42Knuck Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Just now, buffaloboyinATL said: As I said before, it depends who’s there. You don’t trade up for the spot, you trade up for the player. Unless you trade high enough. That said though, I'm still not convinced McBean will pass up the opportunity to get several talented player for one? That doesn't mean the won't move up though. Bean appears to be a pretty sharp due, he may be able to get up there in ways we can't see from where we stand? It is rather exciting. Next week is going to be glacial leading up to the start of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, DefenseWins said: Cleveland calls Beane and says "we have another trade offer for #4". Need to know your "final offer" for #4. What do you tell them? I say, what are you asking? That's negotiation basics. Don't be the first to show the hand. If they're calling (and they will be) we're in the drivers seat. If they come back and say two firsts this year, and a first next year I counter with 12, 22, and 96. (likely expecting them to ask for 65 back instead of 96, which i am fine with). In bartering and negotiation, as soon as you decide that you absolutely must have a thing, you've already lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 hours ago, thunderingsquid said: There has been a lot of debate on here that boils down to two things. Where do you stand? Go on the record. I'm all for swinging for the fences and going for Darnold Rosen or Mayfield. FWIW, I searched 5 pages of topics and could not find anything similar. If missed something then please flame on, Mods. Only trade of for the qb you want. Not to sttle for the leftover qb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 They've tried the other way since 1997. Trade up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: I say, what are you asking? That's negotiation basics. Don't be the first to show the hand. If they're calling (and they will be) we're in the drivers seat. If they come back and say two firsts this year, and a first next year I counter with 12, 22, and 96. (likely expecting them to ask for 65 back instead of 96, which i am fine with). In bartering and negotiation, as soon as you decide that you absolutely must have a thing, you've already lost. First, Cleveland is under no obligation to disclose either the identity of the team that has made them an offer, nor what that offer exactly is... They have a solid offer in their hands at that point... But for a moment lets say they tell Beane everything but need a "Final Offer" from us prior to the draft... What do you offer them? And assuming they accept the offer from Beane you've just traded into #4 NOT #5 as you wanted to do originally... But the most important thing you are not addressing is - What if Beane only really likes 2 of these QBs? The only solution then is trading up to #2... None of us fans are competent to judge which of these 4 QB's are the real deal... Only Beane hopefully knows (reasonably) for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 We have too many needs and it's not worth betting the farm on any quarterback who doesn't appear to be a sure thing, especially when there's decent QB talent and potential at the second tier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 So you stay put and you draft a great 4-3 LB and a CB that fits this scheme in rd 1. (Hopefully they pan out). You ten have a roughly 50% shot at making good picks in rd 2 and 3. so you get a good player or two, but you still don't have a QB. You know what happens to teams who dont have QB's? The coaches and GM get fired. They then have to bring in a new GM and coach, and their scheme is different so now all these great players don't fit. Now the new GM and coach trade and release all these new players and in 3 years you are back right where you started. but the bills nor the fans know anything about that. Trade up and take your shot. If you miss, you are still in the same scenario in 2-3 years as described as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) Trade up, but don't go up to 2. Price is too steep. Edited April 19, 2018 by berg1029 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: We have too many needs and it's not worth betting the farm on any quarterback who doesn't appear to be a sure thing, especially when there's decent QB talent and potential at the second tier. OK, you filled all those holes, but you still have a s*** QB. What happens in three years when you have to deciede whch players to resign and let go because of cap space. ALso, do you plan on hitting on 100% of those picks? because if you do that is extremely unrealistic. What if one of those first round pick busts? now you are hoping to get 3 starters out of 6 picks, which ain't that great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2016 - Goff and Wendt 2017-- Watson and Mahones 2018-- Darnold, Rosen , Allen , and Mayfield. I totally expect Beane to go up to 2 , Accomplishing it by going to 4 , 5 , 0r 6 and then to 2. I will defer to Beane in the selection as he knows infinitely more about the players than I do. Also , more than the posters on this board who claim to know . If the pick doesn't,t work out , then you try again. That is why we had those picks in the first place , to get a QB , not to perk up the rest of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Better not trade up for Rosen - that guy needs to shut his mouth! He wore an F-trump hat. The guy is a prima dona like Ryan Leaf. No way he ends up as a Buffalo Bill. He does not fit our culture or are city. He is certainly not a leader of men. He’s a spoiled rich kid J.P. Losman all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Doesn't the price make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Right now I'm going to trust the process. This is Beane's first draft for the Bills. He has more info than any us. My hope is that we can wait until 12 to get the QB he wants n this years draft. That being said I would like to be able to watch rounds 2 and 3 as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Better not trade up for Rosen - that guy needs to shut his mouth! He wore an F-trump hat. The guy is a prima dona like Ryan Leaf. No way he ends up as a Buffalo Bill. He does not fit our culture or are city. He is certainly not a leader of men. He’s a spoiled rich kid J.P. Losman all over again. If he wore a F-Trump hat, he's smarter than 70% of Bills fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I'd be okay with a small trade up, but I'd prefer to stay at 12 rather than trading up for the #2 pick for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderingsquid Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 18 minutes ago, DefenseWins said: First, Cleveland is under no obligation to disclose either the identity of the team that has made them an offer, nor what that offer exactly is... They have a solid offer in their hands at that point... But for a moment lets say they tell Beane everything but need a "Final Offer" from us prior to the draft... What do you offer them? And assuming they accept the offer from Beane you've just traded into #4 NOT #5 as you wanted to do originally... But the most important thing you are not addressing is - What if Beane only really likes 2 of these QBs? The only solution then is trading up to #2... None of us fans are competent to judge which of these 4 QB's are the real deal... Only Beane hopefully knows (reasonably) for sure... Personally I hope it's a three-way. I've been begging for a three way for years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I hate to be the guy in the “it depends” crowd but the price matters to me. My ideal scenario at this point is 6 or 7 and still getting Rosen. I’m also in the “it depends” camp. I can’t fathom giving away 12, 22 and a 1st next year for any of these QB prospects. Heck, there are only a few established NFL QBs I would trade that much for - Rodgers and, well I don’t know who else. I would of trade that much for Brady or Brees due to their age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, Dr. K said: If he wore a F-Trump hat, he's smarter than 70% of Bills fans. I probably need to stop trolling regarding this, but it's kinda fun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: 2016 - Goff and Wendt 2017-- Watson and Mahones 2018-- Darnold, Rosen , Allen , and Mayfield. I totally expect Beane to go up to 2 , Accomplishing it by going to 4 , 5 , 0r 6 and then to 2. I will defer to Beane in the selection as he knows infinitely more about the players than I do. Also , more than the posters on this board who claim to know . If the pick doesn't,t work out , then you try again. That is why we had those picks in the first place , to get a QB , not to perk up the rest of the roster. Problem is you can’t really try again soon if you trade a boatload to move to 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: They've tried the other way since 1997. Trade up we followed your plan in 2003. How did it work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 43 minutes ago, DefenseWins said: First, Cleveland is under no obligation to disclose either the identity of the team that has made them an offer, nor what that offer exactly is... They have a solid offer in their hands at that point... But for a moment lets say they tell Beane everything but need a "Final Offer" from us prior to the draft... What do you offer them? And assuming they accept the offer from Beane you've just traded into #4 NOT #5 as you wanted to do originally... But the most important thing you are not addressing is - What if Beane only really likes 2 of these QBs? The only solution then is trading up to #2... None of us fans are competent to judge which of these 4 QB's are the real deal... Only Beane hopefully knows (reasonably) for sure... First, I didn't say Cleveland needed to disclose what the other team offered, only that they needed to tell us what they expect from us. Then it's on our heads whether or not to play ball with them. If they want an offer before the draft (and I have no clue how Beane would handle this) I would offer 12, 22, and 96. I'm not going to give them a high offer before I know whose sitting there. If Beane only likes two, then I suppose you are correct in that the only way to guarantee he gets one is to go to 2. But what if Beane likes 4? Or 5? Or what if he only likes 1 QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: we followed your plan in 2003. How did it work out? The Bills didn't have a first round pick in 2003. Bledsoe trade from ' 02 ifvyoure referring to '04, they had a deal in place to move up for Ben Roethlisberger that HOU cancelled when they got cold feet. If only that had worked out. Or do you believe that Big Ben would have forgotten how to play football if he was drafted by The Bills? The panic move from round two to the end of round one for Losman in that same year? Stupid and I don't recommend it. That's why they need to get to the top of a draft order with several good QBs like this year. It hasn't happened since '83. They've always been on the outside looking in. Edited April 19, 2018 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 We'll never win on a consistent basis without a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The Bills didn't have a first round pick in 2003. Bledsoe trade from ' 02 Thanks for the correction. we followed your plan in 2004. How did it work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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