last years Chiefs Trade

[US Egg]

 "Is Mahomes a better prospect than what the Bills could possibly get this year ?"

 

.....like asking if this summer will be nicer than last summer.  Only time will tell. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I loved the trade at the time and am not changing my mind. The 2018 QB class was the one that I liked. The Bills are going to end up with a QB that I wanted and a Pro Bowl corner. They did fine.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What was risky about Watson? 

Watson was the most plug and play QB prospect AND probably has the best chance of being franchise from that group going forward.

 

QB drafting ain't a perfect science. Who knew? 

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I loved the trade at the time and am not changing my mind. The 2018 QB class was the one that I liked. The Bills are going to end up with a QB that I wanted and a Pro Bowl corner. They did fine.

I disagree slightly. 

 

I'm not sure any QB in 2018 has as good of a chance of succeeding as Watson does in 2018. Bird in the hand and all that.

[BuffaLoko]

1 hour ago, dbflaBill said:

A topic I havent seen talked about much. Is Mahomes a better prospect than what the Bills could possibly get this year? If so any trade up can/would look really foolish. 

really? dude...has this not talked to much?? Sure it has been talked at nauseam by the hindsight draft analysts and QB gurus in here, so I suggest you change the topic to: ¨Beating a dead horse!! ¨ ...

[Lfod]

I don't talk about it because it's all still kind of unknown. 

[dbflaBill]

7 minutes ago, BuffaLoko said:

really? dude...has this not talked to much?? Sure it has been talked at nauseam by the hindsight draft analysts and QB gurus in here, so I suggest you change the topic to: ¨Beating a dead horse!! ¨ ...

awwww rough day cupcake?

[BuffaLoko]

Just now, dbflaBill said:

awwww rough day cupcake?

no! not at all, as a matter of fact  it is rolling  so very nice, that I have some time on my hands to catch duplicate topic threads when I read them,

so , c´mon ! don´t act like you are thin skinned, feel good you got my attention!  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Either the answer is no, or Doug Whaley is incompetent. We only got one future 1st rd pick and a 2017 3rd  in return for moving from a top 10 pick to 27. Brutal return compared to this year. 

-I think that’s a bit unfair.  Everyone was on board wth giving credit to McDermott for last year’s draft.  He should get the credit for the trade too right?

[YoloinOhio]

17 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Watson was the most plug and play QB prospect AND probably has the best chance of being franchise from that group going forward.

 

QB drafting ain't a perfect science. Who knew? 

I disagree slightly. 

 

I'm not sure any QB in 2018 has as good of a chance of succeeding as Watson does in 2018. Bird in the hand and all that.

I liked Watson a lot last year. But he’s played 6 games, looked really good at times but turned the ball over a lot and then seriously injured. His injury has caused the team to change their offense to try to prevent it from happening again. He didn’t even win the job in camp. So the jury is still out. Not even the Texans fans would put him in ink as a franchise QB yet. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[Haze_21]

Mahomes is much better than any of the qbs this year imo. But Tre White is a stud.

[Kirby Jackson]

18 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Watson was the most plug and play QB prospect AND probably has the best chance of being franchise from that group going forward.

 

QB drafting ain't a perfect science. Who knew? 

I disagree slightly. 

 

I'm not sure any QB in 2018 has as good of a chance of succeeding as Watson does in 2018. Bird in the hand and all that.

Yeah, I’m not sure that Watson doesn’t end the best of them. I liked Watson but loved Rosen and Darnold at the time. I thought that this was a great class and a 2nd 1st would get a top guy. I don’t at all regret it. The Bills approached that draft EXACTLY as I hoped they would. I’m not going to be a hypocrite now. 

 

The reality is that the Bills just have to be right. They are going to get a guy and some of them, not all of them, are going to be good. The Bills just need to be right.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, I’m not sure that Watson doesn’t end the best of them. I liked Watson but loved Rosen and Darnold at the time. I thought that this was a great class and a 2nd 1st would get a top guy. I don’t at all regret it. The Bills approached that draft EXACTLY as I hoped they would. I’m not going to be a hypocrite now. 

 

The reality is that the Bills just have to be right. They are going to get a guy and some of them, not all of them, are going to be good. The Bills just need to be right.

I pushed for Watson and Mahomes.  Going a different direction is fine if you land the franchise qb.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I pushed for Watson and Mahomes.  Going a different direction is fine if you land the franchise qb.

That's what it comes down to. As it stands right now, it's looking like a gamble gone wrong. The Bills are not currently in a great position to get that player . This can change , as we know but the picture is unclear at the moment. 

[SouthNYfan]

38 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What was risky about Watson? 

 

His accuracy would wax and want quite often, especially on sideline/out routes

Low release point

When he missed it was a sail/float

Arm strength wasn't top notch, so not the best margin for error

 

Great instincts, good football IQ

I thought he should have been a top5 pick, but his inconsistant throws I think hurt that

Plus the usual "running QB negatives" which he got labeled with, which was stupid because he was a very solid pocket QB coming out.

 

 

 

[BillsFan4]

Mahomes received a 2nd round grade from the NFL's draft advisory board -

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/02/23/patrick-mahomes-received-2nd-round-grade-from-nfl-draft-advisory-board/

 

and wasnt even in the top 10 QBs (as far as draft grades go) from the last 3 drafts. 

 

 

This year he would most likely be in the 2nd tier of QBs discussion with guys like Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson etc. 

[par73]

I liked Mahomes, and would have taken him. Obviously, Watson showed great potential before he was injured. It certainly would have made this year much less stressful if they had taken one of them.

[RyanC883]

I'd rather have White and the QB we get this year.  

 

Shutdown CB is difficult to find, perhaps 2nd hardest position after QB?  

 

Still not sold on Mahomes.  

Edited April 12, 2018 by RyanC883

[Southern Bills Fan]

Look, we got an extra first round pick and a top 5 player in last years draft. We won imo. 

[Kwai San]

2 hours ago, Derby Dan said:

I think we all need to take a deep breath on Mahommes, Watson, etc.  The guys have not even played a whole year and we already have them in the HOF.  Remember Brock Osweiler. So many Buffalo fans were wanting to trade for him.  It is a test of time not just a game

 This ^^^^

[BillsFan4]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Yeah, I’m not sure that Watson doesn’t end the best of them. I liked Watson but loved Rosen and Darnold at the time. I thought that this was a great class and a 2nd 1st would get a top guy. I don’t at all regret it. The Bills approached that draft EXACTLY as I hoped they would. I’m not going to be a hypocrite now. 

 

The reality is that the Bills just have to be right. They are going to get a guy and some of them, not all of them, are going to be good. The Bills just need to be right.

Same here. 

 

This is EXACTLY what I wanted the Bills to do last year. Personally, I thought last year was a weaker QB draft class and this year's was much stronger. I wanted the Bills to trade down last year and target this QB draft class. 

 

I would easily take Rosen or Darnold over any QB in last year's class. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

The head coach does not negotiate trades. He may have told him who to draft but he wasn’t making the actual deals.

Given that the trade was with Andy Reid/Dorsey, I highly doubt that Whaley had much say in this instance. Christ, he had already been fired, more or less.

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I loved the trade at the time and am not changing my mind. The 2018 QB class was the one that I liked. The Bills are going to end up with a QB that I wanted and a Pro Bowl corner. They did fine.

Exactly how I feel.

 

I did not like last year's QB class, and I wanted the Bills to trade down.

 

Thankfully they did. Yes, it would have been great if they could have gotten an extra later round pick, but they ended up with 2 first rounders for 2018 and that was huge. That told me that they were going to be looking for a QB the following year.

 

I love what the Bills did with this trade, now they have to complete the deal this year, and I believe they will.

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Given that the trade was with Andy Reid/Dorsey, I highly doubt that Whaley had much say in this instance. Christ, he had already been fired, more or less.

 Exactly. He didn’t have any say in whether the trade was executed. He was told to execute a trade down with KC. unfortunately, either he didn’t execute it well when you compare it to what is projected for this year, or Watson/mahomes (both were there at 10) weren’t  as good of a prospect as the top 4 this year. My point is he was the one doing the negotiating on the trade with what the Bills got in return for that pick. Not that it was his decision to trade the pick. 

 

Frankly I believe it’s that they were not as good,  not that he could have gotten more. But it’s one or the other imo. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by YoloinOhio

[dbflaBill]

23 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

Look, we got an extra first round pick and a top 5 player in last years draft. We won imo. 

top 5 player? the Bills didnt even get the best CB in the draft much less a top 5? lol come on. 

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, dbflaBill said:

A topic I havent seen talked about much. Is Mahomes a better prospect than what the Bills could possibly get this year? If so any trade up can/would look really foolish. 

 

Just my opinion, but I preferred Mahomes over all of the QBs in this year's draft. I think that's definitely a minority opinion though.

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 Exactly. He didn’t have any say in whether the trade was executed. He was told to execute a trade down with KC. unfortunately, either he didn’t execute it well when you compare it to what is projected for this year, or Watson/mahomes (both were there at 10) weren’t  as good of a prospect as the top 4 this year. My point is he was the one doing the negotiating on the trade with what the Bills got in return for that pick. Not that it was his decision to trade the pick. 

 

Frankly I believe it’s that they were not as good,  not that he could have gotten more. But it’s one or the other imo. 

But my understanding is that the Giants, who had a better pick (23), wanted to trade up with the Bills too, but McDermott nixed it because he already had a deal in place with Reid. If we had made that trade with the Giants, no one would be complaining!

19 minutes ago, dbflaBill said:

top 5 player? the Bills didnt even get the best CB in the draft much less a top 5? lol come on. 

I think it's very arguable that 2 of the best 5 players in last year's draft based on 2017 performances were CBs, and that White was definitely one of those top 5.  Name me one player other than Lattimore who was better than White last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft.

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by dave mcbride

[BuffaloMatt]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

Had a good college resume...same as QBs this year. I thought they had an easier chance to draft a QB last year as opposed to this year and would still have a lot of picks for this draft

Last year's draft was tough due to the old regime/changing of the guards.

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Last year's draft was tough due to the old regime/changing of the guards.

I know...still would have been nice to have the QB on the roster and still have the picks for this draft

[Kirby Jackson]

38 minutes ago, dbflaBill said:

top 5 player? the Bills didnt even get the best CB in the draft much less a top 5? lol come on. 

I’m not sure that an argument can even be made that White wasn’t a top 5 rookie. Lattimore, Kamara, White, Watson and ????

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure that an argument can even be made that White wasn’t a top 5 rookie. Lattimore, Kamara, White, Watson and ????

Hunt?

[Mat68]

3 hours ago, dbflaBill said:

A topic I havent seen talked about much. Is Mahomes a better prospect than what the Bills could possibly get this year? If so any trade up can/would look really foolish. 

No he is not.  3 of the Qbs in this class would be rated higher then anyone in last years class.

[YoloinOhio]

21 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

But my understanding is that the Giants, who had a better pick (23), wanted to trade up with the Bills too, but McDermott nixed it because he already had a deal in place with Reid. If we had made that trade with the Giants, no one would be complaining!

I think it's very arguable that 2 of the best 5 players in last year's draft based on 2017 performances were CBs, and that White was definitely one of those top 5.  Name me one player other than Lattimore who was better than White last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NFL_Draft.

 

Never heard that... As long as if included a 1st rd pick this year that would have been crazy luck. I mean that trade was so bad, unless these QBs weren’t viewed very highly. I mean the Bills gave up a 1st and 4th to move up 5 spots in 2014 and we got the same thing for moving down 17.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Never heard that... As long as if included a 1st rd pick this year that would have been crazy luck. I mean that trade was so bad, unless these QBs weren’t viewed very highly. I mean the Bills gave up a 1st and 4th to move up 5 spots in 2014 and we got the same thing for moving down 17.

You know, it really depends. It may be the case that the Bills targeted White and thought he was the perfect player for them, but he knew he'd be there late in the first. And he was actually phenomenal!

 

Another thing - it's a relationship business, and not screwing someone over in your first year on the job will help you out later on. That stuff matters over the long haul. Ironically, Dorsey controls picks 1 and 4 this year. We shall see what happens. They already got more than I ever thought they would for Tyrod from Dorsey.

[Jay_Fixit]

Mahomes would be lower than Rudolph on my list. I don’t like Mahomes whatsoever.

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure that an argument can even be made that White wasn’t a top 5 rookie. Lattimore, Kamara, White, Watson and ????

Let's just stick with the first round alone. There's no way he wasn't a top five player. I can only think of three other elite picks: Watson, Lattimore, and Garrett. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Doc]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Either the answer is no, or Doug Whaley is incompetent. We only got one future 1st rd pick and a 2017 3rd  in return for moving from a top 10 pick to 27. Brutal return compared to this year. 

 

Huh?  What does last year's draft have to do with this year's.  They don't have a crystal ball, much less the ability to make teams trade more picks based on that crystal ball.

 

2 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

Kansas City was the most consistent winning team in football not named New England for the last 5 years. Not an ideal first rounder to grab.

 

The Texans were in a weak division and Luck was injured.  Had Watson not gotten injured, they likely make the playoffs.  But that's why they play the games. 

 

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m not sure that an argument can even be made that White wasn’t a top 5 rookie. Lattimore, Kamara, White, Watson and ????

 

Watson doesn't count since he only played 6 games and played well in 3, arguably 4. 

[Kirby Jackson]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Hunt?

That’s a good answer

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

What was risky about Watson? 

 

Poor ball placement, turnovers, questions about his skill set translating to the NFL, a torn ACL in college. A couple of those were real problems last year, although he very much exceeded my expectations for his rookie year.

Edited April 12, 2018 by HappyDays

[YoloinOhio]

47 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Huh? does last year's draft have to do with this year's.  They don't have a crystal ball, much less the ability to make teams trade more picks based on that crystal ball.

 

 

The Texans were in a weak division and Luck was injured.  Had Watson not gotten injured, they likely make the playoffs.  But that's why they play the games. 

 

 

Watson doesn't count since he only played 6 games and played well in 3, arguably 4. 

It’s what the OP asked 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

Knowing what we know now the pick should have been Watson.  All of the QBs were viewed as projects last year though.  Also in hindsight, I wish we traded down with Houston instead of Kansas City. 

Ain't "knowing what we know now" a B word?