BillsFan17 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 19 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said: oh my.. you really don't get it do you. Please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 23 hours ago, MJS said: Trust McDermott. I mean, who knows Star better than him? He obviously thought we needed him and that he was worth the price tag. Like the coaches/players he knew and then dumped a year later? Sometimes it is better for teams to sign players or hire coaches they do not know but have professionally vetted to eliminate familiarity bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: Like the coaches/players he knew and then dumped a year later? Sometimes it is better for teams to sign players or hire coaches they do not know but have professionally vetted to eliminate familiarity bias. ...tough call bud......maybe the one hired assumes nepotism solidifies his position only to find out it means NOTHING to McD......rather have him make the tough call versus supporting "friendly hires"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 They didn’t overpay. That was his market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I still feel we overpaid until he proves me wrong on the field. He ranked 109th last year out of all the DT's. That's one hell of a haul for a guy who wasn't even in the top half of the league at his position. Not to mention he had lost his starting job in Carolina. Maybe he needed a change of scenery? Maybe he's just not that good? Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 9:16 AM, Jpsredemption said: The analytics don't back him up but it's a great signing around here because it's the Bills and he's a name. Truth is he's overpaid and I'm not certain he's any more motivated that the clown they traded away for nothing last season. Yes because of course analytics are a true rep of what a down linemen does for your team......sacks are everything.....and guys that make it easier for the LB's of your team to make plays mean little. Marcel was on a 100 million dollar contract.....Star is not How many games has Star actually missed in his career...how many times has he violated NFL policies....how many teams has he fallen asleep in team meetings....how many times has he been late for meetings...how many times did he have to be benched by the team for these things. They of course are TOTALLY the same thing \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) On 7/6/2018 at 10:37 AM, C.Biscuit97 said: Who said we overpaid for our Ss? Almost everyone loved the Hyde signing and apogee hardly broke the bank. Bills fans are so sensitive. Yes, we probably over paid for a run stuffing DT in a passing league. If he produces and shuts down the run his first couple of years, it’s a good move. Personally, I think run stuffers are out dated but we will see. True but Dareus is a far superior talent. Plus, we still have Dareus dead money. Yes, but we received foreseeable relife from dareus's massive contract. I believe the McBeane doesnt put one hundred million dollars on the value of a run stuffer. Sure darues is a lot more than that, but that didn't fit into the scheme. Let them style there defense into the top flight one they had in Carolina. I trust the process. Edited July 8, 2018 by JaxBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, Doc said: They didn’t overpay. That was his market value. I'm not sure who we were competing with to give him $10M annually though. Then again, I did feel the same way about giving some guy named Jordan Poyer over $3M yearly, too. As for how I feel about the contract, we won't be able to determine if the value matches up with Star's stats or metrics alone, but how the defense will perform as a whole. If he really is a guy that eats double teams and helps Kyle, Jerry, and Trent out as our collective defensive ranking improves, of course it'll be worth it. I f that's not the case this will be the first major blemish of Beane's tenure. The downwards trajectory PFF has given him is very concerning, and Carolina definitely opted to pay a much better player in Kawaan Short - yet another concern is why Star seemed to play so badly recently with Short alongside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I'm still having a hell of a time trying to correctly pronounce his last name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 59 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...tough call bud......maybe the one hired assumes nepotism solidifies his position only to find out it means NOTHING to McD......rather have him make the tough call versus supporting "friendly hires"...... He hired the coach from Eastern Carolina who recommended Zay Jones dumping the WR coach all of the WRs said were doing a good job of teaching techniques. The coach who could not get Zay to next level. If players and coaches had similar salary structures Zay would have been dumped with coach. 38 minutes ago, H2o said: I still feel we overpaid until he proves me wrong on the field. He ranked 109th last year out of all the DT's. That's one hell of a haul for a guy who wasn't even in the top half of the league at his position. Not to mention he had lost his starting job in Carolina. Maybe he needed a change of scenery? Maybe he's just not that good? Time will tell. Did you agree with every ranking of ranker? Maybe the ranking was just rank-smelling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, Limeaid said: He hired the coach from Eastern Carolina who recommended Zay Jones dumping the WR coach all of the WRs said were doing a good job of teaching techniques. The coach who could not get Zay to next level. If players and coaches had similar salary structures Zay would have been dumped with coach. Did you agree with every ranking of ranker? Maybe the ranking was just rank-smelling? McD gets first year HC Coaching free pass. Because no matter how many mistakes he made ? He likely learned from them. he said as much actually. Picking up Star L and paying him well for his yet to be reviewed work as a Bill ? Gotta trust them on this one. we have no idea if they overpaid for guy to solidify the middle of the line of scrimmage. Team game of course. But it is safe to say , they have expectations of him being a solid player for some years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Yes because of course analytics are a true rep of what a down linemen does for your team......sacks are everything.....and guys that make it easier for the LB's of your team to make plays mean little. Marcel was on a 100 million dollar contract.....Star is not How many games has Star actually missed in his career...how many times has he violated NFL policies....how many teams has he fallen asleep in team meetings....how many times has he been late for meetings...how many times did he have to be benched by the team for these things. They of course are TOTALLY the same thing \ And plenty of players do not commit the acts you laid forth. This doesn't mean they aren't overrated/over compensated etc. His run defense and pass rush were down. No denying that. They signed him because they know him...sounds like we have a real analytical front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: And plenty of players do not commit the acts you laid forth. This doesn't mean they aren't overrated/over compensated etc. His run defense and pass rush were down. No denying that. They signed him because they know him...sounds like we have a real analytical front office. And how good was Jordan Poyer before they "overpaid" him? What about Micah Hyde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Dumping Dareus was a mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, uticaclub said: Dumping Dareus was a mistake We'll see, but so far, doesn't look like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 7:24 AM, Dablitzkrieg said: Not your $$. Don't worry So many fans state this and they are completely wrong every time. It is your money if you do any of the following: pay taxes in WNY, buy any Bills merchandise/collectibles, Bills tickets, food in stadium, support outlets that show Bills content like Sunday Ticket, any tv showing Bills games, CBS, ESPN, radio stations etc etc...…... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, cba fan said: So many fans state this and they are completely wrong every time. It is your money if you do any of the following: pay taxes in WNY, buy any Bills merchandise/collectibles, Bills tickets, food in stadium, support outlets that show Bills content like Sunday Ticket, any tv showing Bills games, CBS, ESPN, radio stations etc etc...…... Ok, feel free to worry about it. Why on Earth would you quote me on a topic from April? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Jpsredemption said: And plenty of players do not commit the acts you laid forth. This doesn't mean they aren't overrated/over compensated etc. Dn. No denying that. They signed him because they know him...sounds like we have a real analytical front office. Do you every get tired of twisting your arguement when you get called out on it? You compared him to Marcel....yet he shows none of the personal issues that Marcel was displaying as far as we know he has been a good team mate and durable. Did they bring him in because they know him? Of course they did.....and that fact that he knows the defensive strategy that McD wants to employ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Who takes ESPN seriously on any level? They decided to become political and because of that their business is hanging on by a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 hours ago, uticaclub said: Dumping Dareus was a mistake Not on the basis of Dareus' play for the Bills or Jags in the last 3 years it wasn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 9 hours ago, Mountain Man said: Not on the basis of Dareus' play for the Bills or Jags in the last 3 years it wasn't Dareus was a beast up the middle, our run defense went to **** as soon as he left & the Jags became elite. He was eating up 2 OL every play, allowing other guys to make plays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 14 hours ago, cba fan said: So many fans state this and they are completely wrong every time. It is your money if you do any of the following: pay taxes in WNY, buy any Bills merchandise/collectibles, Bills tickets, food in stadium, support outlets that show Bills content like Sunday Ticket, any tv showing Bills games, CBS, ESPN, radio stations etc etc...…... I dont agree. You are not a capital investor. Aside from taxes, you are paying for product or a service so you are getting something of value in return for your purchase. That is like saying since you shop at Walmart you have the right to be upset if they spend money on new trucks or redecorating all their stores. Once you exchange your money for a service or product, you are made whole with your purchase. As far as taxes go, you can be upset about taxes supporting the stadium and the Bills. You have the power of the vote to change where taxes get spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Bills FO doesn’t make mistakes. That’s why we have been so dominant. 3 hours ago, BillsfanAZ said: I dont agree. You are not a capital investor. Aside from taxes, you are paying for product or a service so you are getting something of value in return for your purchase. That is like saying since you shop at Walmart you have the right to be upset if they spend money on new trucks or redecorating all their stores. Once you exchange your money for a service or product, you are made whole with your purchase. As far as taxes go, you can be upset about taxes supporting the stadium and the Bills. You have the power of the vote to change where taxes get spent. You must not understand the term salary cap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 25 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Bills FO doesn’t make mistakes. That’s why we have been so dominant. And the FO has stayed the same over the past couple decades, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 2:40 PM, Limeaid said: Did you agree with every ranking of ranker? Maybe the ranking was just rank-smelling? The fact of the matter is he had lost his job as a starter in Carolina. Was that due to poor play or the level of talent they have? I don't know. He doesn't have to get 10 sacks or a 100 tackles a year. He's not a Jim Schwartz coached version of Dareus. It still seems like an awful lot of money to give a rotational DT and one who isn't that overly impressive imo. I will hold that opinion until he proves it otherwise on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Doc said: And the FO has stayed the same over the past couple decades, right? Trading 2 second round picks for a qb seems typical of past mistakes. Hoping this one hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 49 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Bills FO doesn’t make mistakes. That’s why we have been so dominant. You must not understand the term salary cap. you truly are a gem of the message boards. stay strong sweet prince. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, teef said: you truly are a gem of the message boards. stay strong sweet prince. Frencheyes? You must agree w the comment... it’s not my money so why care what the front office pays out for a player? You are a funny dude. Edited July 10, 2018 by nedboy7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 23 hours ago, cba fan said: So many fans state this and they are completely wrong every time. It is your money if you do any of the following: pay taxes in WNY, buy any Bills merchandise/collectibles, Bills tickets, food in stadium, support outlets that show Bills content like Sunday Ticket, any tv showing Bills games, CBS, ESPN, radio stations etc etc...…... It's not your money once you spend it. It is now their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 11:34 AM, BillsFan17 said: Please explain look at how many plays he was in for the last 2 years. sleep well on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 All I will say with Star is this. What he does in the defense is not splashy. But there are reasons why Luke, and K Short excel. 1. They are good. 2. There has to be someone else there to keep guys off of Luke and allow K Short to go 1v1. PFF can't talk about him being ranked dead last, but they don't know the scheme and what he's being asked to do. The Panthers were tough to run on and he is a big part of that. If he can help that happen here then I'm good with it. The thing with PFF is that I find it no coincidence that they are basing this off of tackle numbers. In 2013 Star had 37 solo, 4 assists and 4 sacks and 7 tackles for loss. But his numbers have declined every year since 2013 to a whopping 12 tackles in 2016 with 1 for loss and 15 in 2017 with 3 for loss. They take these numbers and compare to other guys at the position then rank them. That's fine but it doesn't factor in what a guy is being asked to do in a defense. Did we overpay? Maybe, but if his play allows Edmunds to run around and eat vs the run like Luke and our run defense is in the top 7 in the league then I'm fine with the overpay. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 We're really gonna take the PFF chart over his prior coach's opinion? we drafted a hyper active DT, kept our aging one for one more season, signed an all around DE, and traded up to draft a stud ultra athlete (freak really) 20 year old LB. the guts of our D have totally been revamped. if Star does his job as mccoach expects him to, it was a good signing. imo he's a beast and has been one since college. i could give a fuzz what some pff chart says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: All I will say with Star is this. What he does in the defense is not splashy. But there are reasons why Luke, and K Short excel. 1. They are good. 2. There has to be someone else there to keep guys off of Luke and allow K Short to go 1v1. PFF can't talk about him being ranked dead last, but they don't know the scheme and what he's being asked to do. The Panthers were tough to run on and he is a big part of that. If he can help that happen here then I'm good with it. The thing with PFF is that I find it no coincidence that they are basing this off of tackle numbers. In 2013 Star had 37 solo, 4 assists and 4 sacks and 7 tackles for loss. But his numbers have declined every year since 2013 to a whopping 12 tackles in 2016 with 1 for loss and 15 in 2017 with 3 for loss. They take these numbers and compare to other guys at the position then rank them. That's fine but it doesn't factor in what a guy is being asked to do in a defense. Did we overpay? Maybe, but if his play allows Edmunds to run around and eat vs the run like Luke and our run defense is in the top 7 in the league then I'm fine with the overpay. he played a lot of snaps on that d line. a defense that has been top five against the run the last few years. we might have overpaid but i dont think by a whole lot. our run d was so bad last year i see us being top 10ish this year if we keep healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, aristocrat said: he played a lot of snaps on that d line. a defense that has been top five against the run the last few years. we might have overpaid but i dont think by a whole lot. our run d was so bad last year i see us being top 10ish this year if we keep healthy. Which is the reason why IF we "overpaid" I'm completely fine with it if our run defense is anything similar to the Panthers. I think we could have been more competitive and won at least three more games last season with a better run defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said: look at how many plays he was in for the last 2 years. sleep well on that. Lol, okay I'll look at those plays that reflect how his numbers have declined in the run game. Literally showed you proof that his numbers declined and you tell me to sleep well on what exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: Lol, okay I'll look at those plays that reflect how his numbers have declined in the run game. Literally showed you proof that his numbers declined and you tell me to sleep well on what exactly? His tackle numbers declined but did Luke's and K Short's increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plano Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 does anyone actually even watch ESPN anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 4 hours ago, NewEraBills said: All I will say with Star is this. What he does in the defense is not splashy. But there are reasons why Luke, and K Short excel. 1. They are good. 2. There has to be someone else there to keep guys off of Luke and allow K Short to go 1v1. PFF can't talk about him being ranked dead last, but they don't know the scheme and what he's being asked to do. The Panthers were tough to run on and he is a big part of that. If he can help that happen here then I'm good with it. The thing with PFF is that I find it no coincidence that they are basing this off of tackle numbers. In 2013 Star had 37 solo, 4 assists and 4 sacks and 7 tackles for loss. But his numbers have declined every year since 2013 to a whopping 12 tackles in 2016 with 1 for loss and 15 in 2017 with 3 for loss. They take these numbers and compare to other guys at the position then rank them. That's fine but it doesn't factor in what a guy is being asked to do in a defense. Did we overpay? Maybe, but if his play allows Edmunds to run around and eat vs the run like Luke and our run defense is in the top 7 in the league then I'm fine with the overpay. Exactly.. Look at the scheme and defense as a puzzle. You got 11 pieces and Star is one of the most important pieces,but his piece of the puzzle is not flashy and isn't meant to be a playmaker,he makes the playmakers jobs around him much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Again, I'll trust (the process of) McD. I doubt he spent that much money to get him just because he coached him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 You can never overpay for a star.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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