Bleacher Report (And ESPN) - Bills possibly trading w/ Giants for #2 Spot

[Dkollidas]

22 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

Lawson has zero value as hes not been healthy or productive when on the field.

 

I mean adding him really wouldn't push the needle to or for a deal IMO.

Could be. But then again, a few weeks ago no one thought we’d get anything for Tyrod. No one thought we’d get anything for Cordy either. Regardless, we have the capital, change Shaq to a 2nd Round Pick if need be. 

 

This team wont be afraid to add for a guy they want in my opinion.

[Lothar]

13 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

Could be. But then again, a few weeks ago no one thought we’d get anything for Tyrod. No one thought we’d get anything for Cordy either. Regardless, we have the capital, change Shaq to a 2nd Round Pick if need be. 

 

This team wont be afraid to add for a guy they want in my opinion.

But the difference in including him in a trade versus just keeping him is we lose 6-7 million of the cap. It's not happening. These players are not tinker toys.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Can we just get this deal done already for crying out loud, everyday there is some report of us moving up. What is the hold up, get it done. 

 

 

On 4/5/2018 at 5:12 PM, Captain Murica said:

Draft Fatigue is real at this point.. 

 

Preach brother, I'm done with this crap, just do it already.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Dkollidas]

14 minutes ago, Lothar said:

But the difference in including him in a trade versus just keeping him is we lose 6-7 million of the cap. It's not happening. These players are not tinker toys.

According to what I saw on Spotrac, if they traded Lawson before June 1st this year, it would be $2.8M in dead cap. But the team does seem to be loading up on d-linemen, it just makes me think that if another player moves, it could be him. He does have pedigree, and while he’s been hurt, and hasn’t put up huge numbers, he’s been a decent edge setter when he’s played and done solid against the run. 

 

Again, this is a hypothetical deal. It’d be a negotiation. Don’t want Shaq, fine, want a pick instead, ok. What kind of Pick are you looking for, this year or next year, etc. etc. 

 

My basic point is that I think the Bills have the ability, and are determined to make the move to #2. And to do that I think they will need to make two more moves. One with Denver/Indy/Tampa. My money is on Tampa Bay. It’ll be the cheapest deal that still allows the Giants a good chance at one of Barkley, Nelson or Chubb. 

 

And from that point, I think Buffalo will add whatever picks necessary to get up to #2. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Can we just get this deal done already for crying out loud, everyday there is some report of us moving up. What is the hood up, get it done. 

 

 

 

Preach brother, I'm done with this crap, just do it already.

 

 

 

 

I think a big part of it is the Giants waiting to see what Cleveland does. The word is if Cleveland takes Allen, the Giants will stay at #2 and take Darnold. 

 

If Darnold goes first, then the Giants will move out, and that’s when the Gettleman/Beane relationship will come into play and I would believe Beane has been talking to teams like Denver, Indianapolis and Tampa Bay about a small jump before the big jump to #2. 

 

McDermott before he got here, and especially Beane since he arrived, have been meticulous in their dismantling of the old roster, in order to collect as much capital as possible in order to go ahead and make the move up for a franchise quarterback. 

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Dkollidas

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

According to what I saw on Spotrac, if they traded Lawson before June 1st this year, it would be $2.8M in dead cap. But the team does seem to be loading up on d-linemen, it just makes me think that if another player moves, it could be him. He does have pedigree, and while he’s been hurt, and hasn’t put up huge numbers, he’s been a decent edge setter when he’s played and done solid against the run. 

 

Again, this is a hypothetical deal. It’d be a negotiation. Don’t want Shaq, fine, want a pick instead, ok. What kind of Pick are you looking for, this year or next year, etc. etc. 

 

My basic point is that I think the Bills have the ability, and are determined to make the move to #2. And to do that I think they will need to make two more moves. One with Denver/Indy/Tampa. My money is on Tampa Bay. It’ll be the cheapest deal that still allows the Giants a good chance at one of Barkley, Nelson or Chubb. 

 

And from that point, I think Buffalo will add whatever picks necessary to get up to #2. 

 

 

I think a big part of it is the Giants waiting to see what Cleveland does. The word is if Cleveland takes Allen, the Giants will stay at #2 and take Darnold. 

 

If Darnold goes first, then the Giants will move out, and that’s when the Gettleman/Beane relationship will come into play and I would believe Beane has been talking to teams like Denver, Indianapolis and Tampa Bay about a small jump before the big jump to #2. 

 

McDermott before he got here, and especially Beane since he arrived, have been meticulous in their dismantling of the old roster, in order to collect as much capital as possible in order to go ahead and make the move up for a franchise quarterback. 

 

 

what happened to when teams signed the first overall pick weeks in advance? Cleveland needs to do this so we can make our deal.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Can we just get this deal done already for crying out loud, everyday there is some report of us moving up. What is the hood up, get it done. 

 

 

 

Preach brother, I'm done with this crap, just do it already.

 

 

 

 

 

They are not going to do it until they know the Browns have not taken their guy. If it happens it will be on the clock not before.

[Dkollidas]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

what happened to when teams signed the first overall pick weeks in advance? Cleveland needs to do this so we can make our deal.

 

 

I think that’s especially different because Cleveland owns #4. They want to keep everyone on their toes just as much as possible. 

[bills522]

The longer this drags on, the value of any top 5 pick is going to increase, and increase, and increase summore.... I gotta think once Beane gets most of the QB in-house visits outta the way...and locks in his top 2-3 QBs, he'll want to make a move by...let's say the 15th.  I feel like if he waits til draft night we're gonna have to enter a pretty savage bidding war for any high spot.  That said...I'm of the mind that I don't care what it costs, go get your QB and start from there

[3rdand12]

8 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

Seriously? This is some serious Roswell conspiracy stuff

: )

[FeelingOnYouboty]

We're going to part with the 2019 1st

[2003Contenders]

Mayock, who has ties to the Giants, made this rather measured analysis the other day:

 

The Giants believe that they are in a unique position this season to be drafting as high as 2. They (like many teams) also believe that there are 3-non QB top notch players in this draft: Barkley, Nelson and Chubb. All three would fill needs for the Giants. However, if there is one particular QB that the Giants are in love with, that trumps everything. So, first the Giants will have to wait and see what the Browns do. If the Browns take the QB that the Giants would be interested in, then the pick could be up for sale. That is because the Giants know that the #1 pick is a QB, the #2 pick (presumably traded to Buffalo) would be a QB and the Jets are almost certainly taking a QB at 3. Hence, all 3 of those non-QB studs would still be available at 4 and at least one would still be available at 6. That is why Mayock believes that the Giants would be interested in trading down if the QB they covet is gone before 2 -- but not interested in trading later than 6.

 

Obviously, the Bills would have to work a deal to move up to 6 (or possibly 4 or 5) prior to the draft for any shot at getting to 2. Then on draft day they would have to work a deal with the Giants to move to 2. However, this presents a huge risk, as the Giants' decision to trade up or down will be dependent upon what the Browns do at 1.

 

Maybe we will get lucky and the Browns will make their intentions regarding the #1 overall pick known ahead of time, and the Bills, Giants and another team (Colts, Broncos or Browns themselves) can work a three-way deal just before the draft.

[FappyTheClown]

I really need to stay away from here until the draft is over.

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/6/2018 at 12:01 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

what happened to when teams signed the first overall pick weeks in advance? Cleveland needs to do this so we can make our deal.

 

 

 

Cleveland isnt going to likely commit to anyone publicly considering they pick twice in the top 5 and there are a lot of trade possibilities

[26TrapDraw]

Not real sure what the hold up at the #1overall QB pick for Cleveland would be. Do they not have the guy they want on their draft board yet? I'm sure the Bills are in a wait and see. Wish the Browns would just sign their guy and put the Giants on the clock so we can figure out the #2 spot.

[BillsFan4]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, BigDingus said:

If I were the Bills, I'd hope Allen goes #1, then go from there.

If he does, that leaves Mayfield, Rosen & Darnold, to which you then try to trade the Browns to move up to #4. 

If you are confident in all of them, you will have 1 for your choice no matter what. If the Giants don't go QB, you have your pick of 2, with 1 likely being Mayfield who they clearly are interested in (having met with him 4 or 5 times already).

However, if the Browns take Darnold #1 overall (it seems 50/50 between him & Allen according to the "experts"), the pool is a little more murky (IMO). 

At that point, I'd just hope the Jets are the one to pull the trigger on him, and be happy with avoiding that risk. I'd only consider moving up to #2 if there's one guy I like that much more, head & shoulders above all else. 

 

I don't know. I think that could be the nightmare scenario for the Bills if the rumors are true about the only QB the Giants want is Darnold. 

 

If true, and the Browns pick Allen, the Giants wouldn't trade that pick and we'd see QBs go off the board 1, 2, 3 and possibly 5 which would leave the Bills shut out of any of the top 4 QBs (unless the Browns are willing to trade #4 which seems unlikely at this point). 

[YoloinOhio]

On 4/6/2018 at 2:06 AM, BillsFan17 said:

Lawson has zero value as hes not been healthy or productive when on the field.

 

I mean adding him really wouldn't push the needle to or for a deal IMO.

A pass rusher ✅ drafted in the 1st round ✅ on a rookie deal ✅ never been in trouble ✅ played in two different schemes in 2 years ✅

 

going to disagree with you 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Cleveland isnt going to likely commit to anyone publicly considering they pick twice in the top 5 and there are a lot of trade possibilities

 

Sure, ruin it for everyone.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Chuck Wagon]

25 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

Mayock, who has ties to the Giants, made this rather measured analysis the other day:

 

The Giants believe that they are in a unique position this season to be drafting as high as 2. They (like many teams) also believe that there are 3-non QB top notch players in this draft: Barkley, Nelson and Chubb. All three would fill needs for the Giants. However, if there is one particular QB that the Giants are in love with, that trumps everything. So, first the Giants will have to wait and see what the Browns do. If the Browns take the QB that the Giants would be interested in, then the pick could be up for sale. That is because the Giants know that the #1 pick is a QB, the #2 pick (presumably traded to Buffalo) would be a QB and the Jets are almost certainly taking a QB at 3. Hence, all 3 of those non-QB studs would still be available at 4 and at least one would still be available at 6. That is why Mayock believes that the Giants would be interested in trading down if the QB they covet is gone before 2 -- but not interested in trading later than 6.

 

Obviously, the Bills would have to work a deal to move up to 6 (or possibly 4 or 5) prior to the draft for any shot at getting to 2. Then on draft day they would have to work a deal with the Giants to move to 2. However, this presents a huge risk, as the Giants' decision to trade up or down will be dependent upon what the Browns do at 1.

 

Maybe we will get lucky and the Browns will make their intentions regarding the #1 overall pick known ahead of time, and the Bills, Giants and another team (Colts, Broncos or Browns themselves) can work a three-way deal just before the draft.

 

 

For that reason, I think Beane should have pulled the trigger on a deal up to 7 if it was a reasonable ask.  From 7, you know either one of the "non-QB" 3 would be there or the 4th QB.  It's a unique pick, likely one that's not lost on Licht and the Bucs FO.  What's our worst case at 7, all the QBs go top 5 and we are left picking a premier pass rusher, badly needed OG or a stud RB to potentially help extend Shady's career.

 

But what do we know.  There could already be contingent deals agreed to with any one or multiple of NYG / Cleveland / Denver / Indy or Tampa.

[mannc]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:19 PM, Lfod said:

#1 and #2 spots you pick a QB or you trade down. You don't sit on that sweet QB spot to not go QB. Those are the money picks and if you can't get one of them you already lost a lot of ground. Jets going QB at #3. 

 

So that leaves you with a possible #4 trade with the Browns with 3 QBs off the board. I wouldn't be very excited about taking the fourth QB off the board. Unless that QB that was left was one you had a target on. People say it's a QB heavy draft. 

 

If he can't get to #1 or #2 then I'd rather him let the draft fall. A QB might drop in to a range it makes sense to move up a few spots. People say it's a QB heavy draft.

 

The mention of trading for pick #4 just smells of desperation if 3 QBs have already been stolen. The last choice on the top 4 QBs. Yuck. Imagine the Jets lighting us up with the guy they picked at #3 and we traded to #4 and busted. 

 

If the Bills trade up in a place behind the Jets for QB you might find me being critical until it pays off. Yuck.

 

I like the #1 pick or #2 pick or just pick at #12. 

The Browns aren’t trading out of the 4 spot.  They don’t want or need more picks.

[billsfan89]

If the Browns pass on Darnold for Allen they are !@#$ing up on a grand scale. If the Bills trade up to 2 and Darnold is there then they should take him in 10 seconds.

[3rdand12]

going to be one hell of a ride !

[JohnC]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 2:47 AM, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Can we just get this deal done already for crying out loud, everyday there is some report of us moving up. What is the hood up, get it done. 

 

 

 

Preach brother, I'm done with this crap, just do it already.

 

 

 

 

I'm far from fatigued. This has been the most exciting and anticipated draft for a long time. Not only is it intriguing to watch what we will do but it is also inextricably linked to what the teams above us will be doing. There is a list of high end qb prospects each with different attributes. That's also what makes this draft exciting. All the qbs in question have different skill sets. How the Bills rate the prospects is probably not how the other teams rate the prospects. There are so many different options to explore. 

 

What makes this year unique for Bills fans is even though we are not currently near the top of the draft there isn't a team that has as much draft capital as we have. So in almost all the qb talk we are in the middle of the discussions. How much more exciting can that be?  

 

If you think about it the staging point for the qb discussion began last year when the Bills traded down with the Chiefs. Since then the table has been set as to how the Bills will maneuver in this upcoming draft. Mr Barbarian you may be exhausted but my juices are flowing with this draft talk. Although I wish there was more talk about the other positions that will be addressed. 

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

A pass rusher ✅ drafted in the 1st round ✅ on a rookie deal ✅ never been in trouble ✅ played in two different schemes in 2 years ✅

 

going to disagree with you 

To quantify as a push rusher dont you have to actually display that ability?

 

Moreover, Hughes was traded for Kelvin Sheppard, being a former first rounder doesnt inherently mean you have value.

Edited April 7, 2018 by BillsFan17

[Tyrod's friend]

On 4/6/2018 at 4:27 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

They are not going to do it until they know the Browns have not taken their guy. If it happens it will be on the clock not before.

maybe so, seems logical.

But I'd guess the parameters of the deal are already written.

And the more I think about a trade with the Giants, the more I think Shady gets included and not Lawson. It's not an easy trade, but the Bills seem to have met with four or five draftable running backs, and that's a lot when you've just invested money in a backup running back.

[DefenseWins]

I wanna be clear that I don't necessarily want to trade him but if we think about it he turns 30 in July and if the Giants want to try for one or two more playoff runs Shady would have to be considered as a desirable addition to their team. The Bills at the same time would be doing Shady a favor by giving him one or two last chances at a Super Bowl ring that he wouldn't get if the Bills kept him. So I am good with it either way. If it helps the Bills make this trade and get their franchise QB I think it is a win for all concerned.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by DefenseWins

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

To quantify as a push rusher dont you have to actually display that ability?

 

Moreover, Hughes was traded for Kelvin Sheppard, being a former first rounder doesnt inherently mean you have value.

You said “zero value”... he’s not going to fetch a high pick but he absolutely has value 

 

Grigson is no longer employed for a reason 

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

The Browns aren’t trading out of the 4 spot.  They don’t want or need more picks.

 

If the Giants take Barkley at 2 for some reason, then the Browns will be in business at pick 4. They get their QB at pick 1 and then without Barkely their at 4 I think they certainly would turn down 12, 22, and a 2nd next year for pick 4. The Browns could get their QB  and draft 12, 22, 33, 36, and 64, while pocketing a 2nd in 2019 (Which would hypothetically give them an extra 3rd and 2nd in 2019 thanks to the Danny Shelton trade.) 

 

But that being said I don't think the Giants pass on Rosen or Darnold. 

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, DefenseWins said:

I wanna be clear that I don't necessarily want to trade him but if we think about it he turns 30 in July and if the Giants want to try for one or two more playoff runs Shady would have to be considered as a desirable addition to their team. The Bills at the same time would be doing Shady a favor by giving him one or two last chances at a Super Bowl ring that he wouldn't get if the Bills kept him. So I am good with it either way. If it helps the Bills make this trade and get their franchise QB I think it is a win for all concerned.

 

Newsflash:. The Bills made the playoffs last year.  The Giants finished 31st in a 32 team league.  I can buy that the Bills have a lot if work to do, but you guys act like they are further away than any other team in the league.  They are not.

[PIZ]

1.  So, if we are going to trade 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 2019 2nd rounder for the NYGs #2, is everyone on board with it?

 

2.  Then, who does everyone want, assuming Darnold is gone?  Rosen, Mayfield, or Allen?  I go Josh Rosen.

 

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

6 minutes ago, PIZ said:

1.  So, if we are going to trade 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 2019 2nd rounder for the NYGs #2, is everyone on board with it?

 

2.  Then, who does everyone want, assuming Darnold is gone?  Rosen, Mayfield, or Allen?  I go Josh Rosen.

 

It would have to be Rosen.

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, PIZ said:

1.  So, if we are going to trade 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 2019 2nd rounder for the NYGs #2, is everyone on board with it?

 

2.  Then, who does everyone want, assuming Darnold is gone?  Rosen, Mayfield, or Allen?  I go Josh Rosen.

 

 

1. If that's all it will take, then hell yes. We still get a 2 and 3 this year, and keep next year's 1st. That's a win.

 

2. I'll trust Beane with any of those 3, but I think it's Rosen.

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, PIZ said:

1.  So, if we are going to trade 12, 22, 53, 65 and a 2019 2nd rounder for the NYGs #2, is everyone on board with it?

 

2.  Then, who does everyone want, assuming Darnold is gone?  Rosen, Mayfield, or Allen?  I go Josh Rosen.

 

If Darnold is gone, I would be happy with either Mayfield or Rosen... if we ended up taking Allen it would be a fail of epic proportions.

[PIZ]

So, does this give us more hope that NYG trade with us?

 

 

[BobbyC81]

On 4/5/2018 at 6:18 PM, 1ZAYDAY1 said:

They really need to move the draft up...

 

Move the combine up to mid Feb and move draft to early April... keep everything else the same. Give these kids a 3 week break prior to Rookie mini camp.... rest, relax, look at play books, be with family etc...

 

Draft used to be in the middle of April.

[DefenseWins]

9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Newsflash:. The Bills made the playoffs last year.  The Giants finished 31st in a 32 team league.  I can buy that the Bills have a lot if work to do, but you guys act like they are further away than any other team in the league.  They are not.

 

If the Giants want Shady (because they are passing on Barkley by trading us the #2 pick) I would go along with that as it will save us a draft pick or two and facilitate the trade. I am not ADVOCATING trading Shady if the Bills don't have to but if it is a stumbling block then go ahead and do it. The Bills have to think future first. Even if the Bills made the playoffs this year how far would they go? Future first!

 

[ALF]

I would only trade up for Rosen , Mayfield or Darnold.  It's a good draft for RBs. I would give 3 first rd picks or  12 , 22 and McCoy to move up to #2.

 

The Bill's 2nd and 3rd rd picks are needed this draft. Plenty of cap space in 2019 for free agents to cover loss of any traded picks that draft.

[BillsFan17]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

You said “zero value”... he’s not going to fetch a high pick but he absolutely has value 

 

Grigson is no longer employed for a reason 

Okay

[Beast]

I thought about making a thread but there are enough trade up threads already so I’ll post my question here.....

 

For pure entertainment value, would you prefer the Bills to trade up before draft day arrives or when the team is on the clock we are going to trade with? (Obviously, assuming we are trading up)

 

I’d love some draft night drama, TBH.

[Boatdrinks]

20 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

I thought about making a thread but there are enough trade up threads already so I’ll post my question here.....

 

For pure entertainment value, would you prefer the Bills to trade up before draft day arrives or when the team is on the clock we are going to trade with? (Obviously, assuming we are trading up)

 

I’d love some draft night drama, TBH.

I'd like it if the Bills traded to their spot before draft day. Just too nerve wracking otherwise and getting to draft day then seeing them stay put would be extra disappointing. 

[YoloinOhio]

15 hours ago, PIZ said:

So, does this give us more hope that NYG trade with us?

 

 

I saw this helmet thing earlier this week and not sure if i believe it, but virtually everyone connected to the Browns believe he is the pick.