Moving up to #2 = No Playoffs for the next three years

[Chuck Wagon]

Rams

Eagles

Chiefs

Titans

Jags

 

Huh

 

All of them made playoffs last year.  All of them drafted QBs high or traded up for QBs within the last 4 drafts.

 

[Heavy Kevi]

10 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

Hey, it's possible, and I hope it works. But who is Rosen or Mayfield going to be throwing to, exactly? 

 

I would argue that if the QB works out, it's a solution at the position for a decade. Then you spend the next couple offseasons surrounding him, and get that ever-elusive SB window before he gets the big money after his rookie deal.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Quote

Moving up to #2 = No Playoffs for the next three years

 

 

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, RPbillsfan said:

Your analogy is almost correct, the Rams traded, got Goff and they were awful and completely inept on offense in 2016.  They had cap room and made moves with FA selections to bolster their offensive line and WR group.  Changed coaches and then took off in 2017.

 

The Bills have the unique opportunity to get a QB and build their roster in the 2018 draft.  Let's remember any QB we pick is gonna be an unused roster spot in 2018.  Let's stay at 12, 22, 53,56, 65 and 96.  Take Jackson or Rudolph and build the rest of the roster, then let's see what AJ can do and if we can progress from 2017.  Then use our significant cap room and a full allotment of 2019 draft picks to replace the Patriots at the top of the division for at least the next 5 years as the Patriots fall apart after Tommy and Bill leave, the Dolphins are an organizational mess and the Jets have their franchise QB and no players around him.

 

Thats my plan, what's yours?

 

Trade up get one of the top three QBs. (Prefer using 2019 picks as an offset to keep 2018 picks)

 

Fill the rest of the holes with the picks we have left 

 

anything we missed sign post draft. 

 

Continue to grow, use next years cap space to fill out the team to a SB Contender 

 

[Domdab99]

6 minutes ago, RPbillsfan said:

Your analogy is almost correct, the Rams traded, got Goff and they were awful and completely inept on offense in 2016.  They had cap room and made moves with FA selections to bolster their offensive line and WR group.  Changed coaches and then took off in 2017.

 

The Bills have the unique opportunity to get a QB and build their roster in the 2018 draft.  Let's remember any QB we pick is gonna be an unused roster spot in 2018.  Let's stay at 12, 22, 53,56, 65 and 96.  Take Jackson or Rudolph and build the rest of the roster, then let's see what AJ can do and if we can progress from 2017.  Then use our significant cap room and a full allotment of 2019 draft picks to replace the Patriots at the top of the division for at least the next 5 years as the Patriots fall apart after Tommy and Bill leave, the Dolphins are an organizational mess and the Jets have their franchise QB and no players around him.

 

Thats my plan, what's yours?

 

Beer. Lots of it.

 

But I hope you're right!

7 minutes ago, billsfan5121 said:

You said picking 6 players makes it likely to hit on one or two players.  What’s not to understand?  If hitting on one or two players is better than hitting on a qb, then that’s your opinion.  You made it clear.  If that’s not what you said, perhaps you have an issue with getting your point across clearly.  

 

No, I said it's more likely we hit on one of 6 than just one. Remember, that QB can be a bust, too. 

[whatdrought]

We were in the playoffs, so by default, we are a playoff team.... 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Rams say Hi 

 

Rams? They accomplished little more than what the Bills did.  

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Rams

Eagles

Chiefs

Titans

Jags

 

Huh

 

All of them made playoffs last year.  All of them drafted QBs high or traded up for QBs within the last 4 drafts.

 

  Stop being intellectually dishonest.  Not all those teams used multiple picks to get one player.  Not every last one contributed to their team in a meaningful way (Mahomes) last year.

[Mark Vader]

24 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Anyone notice what a real QB did for San Fran ONCE the trade for Jimmy G was made. 

 

Instant upgrade. 

 

But in Buffalo land it means no playoffs for 3 years 

Despite the gushing by the national media, I still think that the jury is still out on Garoppolo, but I understand your overall point. We need a QB, and in order to get one, we have to trade up.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

Really terrible what happened to the Philadelphia Eagles I wonder if they will ever recover. SMH

[NastyNateSoldiers]

25 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

Look at the rest of the Rams team. They're loaded. We're not.

The point is they were able to fill the holes via free agency and a few trades the same can be said for Philly also.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Mark Vader said:

Despite the gushing by the national media, I still think that the jury is still out on Garoppolo, but I understand your overall point. We need a QB, and in order to get one, we have to trade up.

 I agree the jury is still out on His long term outlook. But what he did to that San Fran team thag could not win a game once he was started was the impact a QB makes to a team. 

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

Despite the gushing by the national media, I still think that the jury is still out on Garoppolo, but I understand your overall point. We need a QB, and in order to get one, we have to trade up.

 

5-0 

 

The jury may be out (and I do agree with that) but darned if it aint leaning one way. 

[Tatonka68]

How can you even say such things? LOL Please... Next year the Bills will have SO much cap space they can sign players instead of drafting them. I say they MAKE the playoffs EVERY YEAR. We made it last year with just as many holes.

[RochesterRob]

25 minutes ago, billsfan5121 said:

Why do some people think that picking a position player can’t produce a bust as well?  It’s like people are afraid of a qb because they might fail, but then talk about all of the picks in the first three rounds as if they are locks to be great.  Here’s a concept.  If our staff is good enough to nail 6 picks over 3 rounds, they are good enough to pick a qb.  

  Your logic is faulty.  There is a risk factor in any pick and it is compounded if multiple picks are used to obtain one player.  It is not only if the one heavily invested player that is lost but the opportunity lost on the others.  I would bet that many of the riverboat gamblers here today were crying on the old BBMB about giving the Jags a pick when we obtained Rob Johnson that turned into Fred Taylor.  

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Stop being intellectually dishonest.  Not all those teams used multiple picks to get one player.  Not every last one contributed to their team in a meaningful way (Mahomes) last year.

 

 

You are right.  Some of those teams legitimately stunk and drafted a player with their own pick.  But they all have the same thing in common.  Having a young cheap QB in place offers you a dramatic advantage when it comes to building a deep talented roster around them.  By drafting a QB who hits, you open up a 5 year window of having an insane luxury at the post expensive position in the sport.  There are no guarantees in any draft pick.  That "stud position player" we might draft at 12 might be complete garbage.  We could whiff on one or both 2nd round picks.  But I'm not being any more intellectually dishonest than the "Too many holes to trade" club who would lead one to believe we just wouldn't put 11 players on the field if we don't have multiple 2nd round picks.

[Mark Vader]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Yes, let's look at the Rams team, going all the way back to 2010.

2010: 7-9 No playoffs

2011: 2-14 No playoffs

2012: 7-8-1 No playoffs

2013: 7-9 No playoffs

2014: 6-10 No playoffs

2015: 7-9 No playoffs

-----------------------------------------> Trade up from pick #15 to Pick #1 and select Jared Goff

2016: 4-12 No playoffs

2017: 11-5 Won Division

 

Yep, trading up for a QB reaaaallly set them back.

Getting rid of Fisher helped too.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Honestly, my expectation if we were to trade up for a QB would be that he starts and we win between 5 and 8 games in 2018. Then in 2019 we upgrade the pieces around him with all the cap space we have freed up and start a streak of playoff appearances and runs. This is exactly what the Rams and Eagles did. Our roster is not complete, and won't be for the 2018 season whether we trade up or not.

[GoBills808]

32 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

You think this roster is playoff ready? Yeah, I know, we made it this past year. Yippee! We had no shot at advancing, though. Our roster needs some stars

I believe we would have with a better quarterback, honestly.

[SouthNYfan]

26 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Rams say Hi 

 

So do the Giants with Eli and his two rings.

 

It works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't.

Just like every draft pick.

It's less detrimental now with the rookie wage scale I think.

Another important factor is that bad teams usually have a bad QB, so they aren't willing to part with the top pick.

This year was an exception with the colts and Giants both in the top 5, who both might pass on a QB and be willing to trade down (colts already moved down a couple spots)

Broncos might be willing as well, then after that, all the teams from 6-11 are set at qb and might be willing to trade back as well.

[DrDawkinstein]

If we trade to #2, we're in the playoffs next year and take the division within 3 years.

[John from Riverside]

36 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Moving up is sexy, it's fun, it's what's for dinner these days. But moving up will set the team's growth back three, maybe five years. Possibly longer. This team has so many holes, that to throw away all these picks on a QB who might be good is insanity. 

 

If we can somehow move up and still have 1 2nd and 1 3rd...I'd be willing to listen. But only for Rosen or Mayfield. Trading up for any of the other QBs is insanity. Especially since Jackson has a very good chance of being there at 12. Hell, he has a good chance of being there at 22.

 

I'd rather pick an elite player at 12 - Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea....etc. Use the rest of the picks on holes like WR, OL, DL, LB....

 

Throwing away this draft along with a first next next year? No thanks. 

I do not agree

 

There is a strong possibility that AJM is the starting QB on opening day regardless of the qb pick so there will be a veteran presense.......taking a qb high is not going to change that.

 

The D made a big jump last year and I expect that to continue in its second year.

 

The running game has always been and will always be strong....with a nice stable of running backs.

 

We just need our passing game to work.....it wasnt working last year either and we made a wildcard

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

You are right.  Some of those teams legitimately stunk and drafted a player with their own pick.  But they all have the same thing in common.  Having a young cheap QB in place offers you a dramatic advantage when it comes to building a deep talented roster around them.  By drafting a QB who hits, you open up a 5 year window of having an insane luxury at the post expensive position in the sport.  There are no guarantees in any draft pick.  That "stud position player" we might draft at 12 might be complete garbage.  We could whiff on one or both 2nd round picks.  But I'm not being any more intellectually dishonest than the "Too many holes to trade" club who would lead one to believe we just wouldn't put 11 players on the field if we don't have multiple 2nd round picks.

  The saying "there is safety in numbers" is especially true during the draft.  The more the picks the more likely a productive player or two (or more) may be found.  Look at our own drafts back in 1979 and 1987.  Those two drafts set the team up for playoffs right after those respective years.  We had more than capable QB's in Ferguson and Kelly respectively at those times and getting into the playoffs based on the contributions of those players alone most likely would have not gotten us into the playoffs.

[What a Tuel]

Pick any 5 picks in the first 3 rounds out of the last 3 years and say you would absolutely not trade them for a starting QB? I get, it is scary that they will botch it. The not so newsflash is we have been botching it for 18 years though.

Edited April 3, 2018 by What a Tuel

[SouthNYfan]

Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Honestly, my expectation if we were to trade up for a QB would be that he starts and we win between 5 and 8 games in 2018. Then in 2019 we upgrade the pieces around him with all the cap space we have freed up and start a streak of playoff appearances and runs. This is exactly what the Rams and Eagles did. Our roster is not complete, and won't be for the 2018 season whether we trade up or not.

 

I would be okay with him sitting for a bit depending on who it is.

Rosen and Mayfield could roll day #1

Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, darnold should all sit.

(I'm not avocatingfor any in particular here, just saying that having them sit isn't a terrible idea)

 

Goff sat for a bit his rookie year.

 

[RyanC883]

40 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Be.  Rosen is a very pro ready QB and we could expect an instant upgrade in the passing game immediately.  Now,  we wouldn't be sb favorites or anything but we would be respectable instantly

 

I think it comes down to this.  WHO are we moving up for.  Rosen or Mayfield, okay.  Darnold, I'd be leary.  Allen or Jackson, and I may stop "trusting the process".  

 

With a first round pick, ALWAYS get an impact player.  Hopefully we can get an impact QB.  But don't trade up or take a "project" QB when you can get a "project" QB in the 2nd or 3rd (Kyle L, Mike White, Falk).  

Edited April 3, 2018 by RyanC883

[ndirish1978]

Better than another 17 years without one

[billieve420]

13 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Despite the gushing by the national media, I still think that the jury is still out on Garoppolo, but I understand your overall point. We need a QB, and in order to get one, we have to trade up.

 

And out of those 5 wins only 1 can someone say was a quality win and that was against Jax. 2 if you want to count Tennessee as well. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by billieve420

[Augie]

39 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

Plus, we've got a huge cap surplas next year....we can be very pro-active in FA then. 

 

Are you arguing against yourself now? 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

I would be okay with him sitting for a bit depending on who it is.

Rosen and Mayfield could roll day #1

Allen, Jackson, Rudolph, darnold should all sit.

(I'm not avocatingfor any in particular here, just saying that having them sit isn't a terrible idea)

 

Goff sat for a bit his rookie year.

My statement was definitely specific to Rosen (I know I didn't state that). Just my opinion, but Rosen and Mayfield start day 1, Darnold gets the Goff treatment, Allen gets the Mahomes treatment.

[#34fan]

 

It's a once-in-a-blue-moon opportunity to load up on NFL starters... It'd be crazy to trade it away for someone who might not be.

 

KEEP THE DAMN PICKS! -Go Bills!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

10 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The saying "there is safety in numbers" is especially true during the draft.  The more the picks the more likely a productive player or two (or more) may be found.  Look at our own drafts back in 1979 and 1987.  Those two drafts set the team up for playoffs right after those respective years.  We had more than capable QB's in Ferguson and Kelly respectively at those times and getting into the playoffs based on the contributions of those players alone most likely would have not gotten us into the playoffs.

 

 

I don't care about what happened 30 years ago.

 

Look at the Browns in 2016.  14 draft picks.  They got one guy who made the Pro Bowl at linebacker.  That's about it.  If you trust the FO to hit on multiple draft picks, you should trust them to trade up for a QB who'll hit.  

[Royale with Cheese]

37 minutes ago, Domdab99 said:

 

You think this roster is playoff ready? Yeah, I know, we made it this past year. Yippee! We had no shot at advancing, though. Our roster needs some stars

 

We had no shot at advancing when we lost a game 10-3?  

[SoTier]

18 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Did they say that about Philly???  

 

Philly was a talented team before the Eagles took a flyer on Chip Kelly, and he wasn't in charge long enough to do a total gut job on the team, so Philly already had a pretty talented team.  Even so, the Eagles went 7-9 in Wentz's first season.

 

The Bills weren't all that talented before McDermott was hired, and he proceeded to get rid of more players, including young, talented players like Watkins, Darby, Dareus, etc.  They also traded their starting QB and their starting LT, although Glenn was injured most of last season, and they lost C Eric Wood to injury/retirement.   Through trades and FA, they've only replaced a few of the players they lost, so they still have massive needs at WR and on the OL plus LB. 

 

Even if the Bills use only 1 draft pick on a QB and he develops into a quality starter, it's likely to still take them two or three years to return to the playoffs.  If they give up all of their Day 1 and Day 2 picks and some 2019 picks, too, which is what some advocate, to trade up into the top five, they are going to be doomed to more than three years of no playoffs even if the QB they pick turns out to be a quality starter.  Even greats like Brady, Brees, and Rodgers need protection and targets ... and defensive help so that they don't have to score 30+ points a game to win.

[Augie]

Just now, #34fan said:

 

It's a once-in-a-blue-moon opportunity to load up on NFL starters... It'd be crazy to trade it away for someone who might not be.

 

KEEP THE DAMN PICKS! -Go Bills!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s a once in a blue moon opportunity to get a Franchise QB. Without the QB you go nowhere. 

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

My statement was definitely specific to Rosen (I know I didn't state that). Just my opinion, but Rosen and Mayfield start day 1, Darnold gets the Goff treatment, Allen gets the Mahomes treatment.

 

Agreed.

[Augie]

I’m not sure I’d even give up#12 for Allen. 

[SoTier]

37 minutes ago, BBills88 said:

If these rookies are as great as we want them to be than it doesn't matter as they will make the receivers look good. Many QB's have done it.

 

Name them.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

It’s a once in a blue moon opportunity to get a Franchise QB. Without the QB you go nowhere. 

  I don't see the term "franchise QB" stamped on any of these guys' foreheads.  Instead we have a bunch of guys with both a high ceiling and a low floor due to in part personal attitude.  If there were truly a franchise QB there then the Browns would have been presented with "we'll give you not just one farm but two farms" for the number 1 overall pick.

[Chuck Wagon]

12 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Philly was a talented team before the Eagles took a flyer on Chip Kelly, and he wasn't in charge long enough to do a total gut job on the team, so Philly already had a pretty talented team.  Even so, the Eagles went 7-9 in Wentz's first season.

 

The Bills weren't all that talented before McDermott was hired, and he proceeded to get rid of more players, including young, talented players like Watkins, Darby, Dareus, etc.  They also traded their starting QB and their starting LT, although Glenn was injured most of last season, and they lost C Eric Wood to injury/retirement.   Through trades and FA, they've only replaced a few of the players they lost, so they still have massive needs at WR and on the OL plus LB. 

 

Even if the Bills use only 1 draft pick on a QB and he develops into a quality starter, it's likely to still take them two or three years to return to the playoffs.  If they give up all of their Day 1 and Day 2 picks and some 2019 picks, too, which is what some advocate, to trade up into the top five, they are going to be doomed to more than three years of no playoffs even if the QB they pick turns out to be a quality starter.  Even greats like Brady, Brees, and Rodgers need protection and targets ... and defensive help so that they don't have to score 30+ points a game to win.

 

The Eagles had some key pieces in place for sure, Peters / Lane Johnson / Ertz / Cox / Graham.  But they added a ton of talent last year, Jeffery / Darby / McLeod / Jernigan / Ajayi.  Just like the Rams, having a cheap young QB and a clean cap sheet can allow you to bring in a lot of talent very quickly.