Moving up to #2 = No Playoffs for the next three years

[Boca BIlls]

It has nothing to do with how many draft picks you have, it is about getting the right mesh of players and picking the correct talent. It all starts with a QB and if you can piece together everything else by selecting the correct talent you will be a contender as long as the coaching staff does their job as well. Giving up picks does not mean no playoffs. Selecting the wrong players does.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

if they hit on the qb wouldn't they have enough cap money next year to buy a bunch of solid starters ?  yes they would 

[reddogblitz]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

So they Built around their trade up QB. 

 

Amazing people here against trading up say that is impossible 

 

How far did they have to trade up for Nick?

[Domdab99]

Say we do this instead of reaching for a QB:

Round 1 Pick 12:  James, Derwin, SS/FS, Florida State 
Round 1 Pick 22:  Vander Esch, Leighton, OLB/ILB, Boise State
Round 2 Pick 21:  Lauletta, Kyle, QB, Richmond
Round 2 Pick 28 (PITT):  Chark, DJ, WR, LSU 
Round 3 Pick 1:  Sutton, Courtland, WR, Southern Methodist 
Round 3 Pick 28 (PITT):  Christian, Geron, OT, Louisville 
Round 3 Pick 32:  Settle, Tim, DT, Virginia Tech 
Round 4 Pick 21:  Griffin, Shaquem, OLB, Central Florida 
Round 5 Pick 29:  Scarbrough, Bo, RB, Alabama 
Round 6 Pick 13:  Dickson, Michael, P, Texas 

 

Now that's a draft that will plug some holes. Then next year you have the possibility of Lauletta, McCarron, or even Peterman stepping up, or you draft another QB or go after one in FA/trade.

 

Trust me, I'd love to trade up for Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield, too, but I just think the cost is going to be too high.

 

It's a conundrum, I know....

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Domdab99

[greeneblitz]

hahaha, dumbest thing I've read on this site the entire draft season. Getting a franchise QB at any cost is the only chance we have to ever get back to the playoffs again (other than a BS back door sneak in that we did to break the streak).

No player on the roster matters even 10% of a great QB, this fact has been proven over and over and over again, and yet we have a dedicated set of fans apparently living in the 1970s that QBs are just another player on the team.

8 hours ago, wagon127 said:

When we missed the playoffs for 17 straight years, were we without a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks the entire time? Or were we missing a franchise QB?

/end thread

[reddogblitz]

43 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

 we have a dedicated set of fans apparently living in the 1970s that QBs are just another player on the team.

 

Did you watch football in the 70s?  It was the same then. Teams with great QBs were perennial winners. Cowboys with Staubach. Stealers with Bradshaw. Fish with Griese.  Raiders with Stabler.  Those were some great QBs.

[ColdFront_USAF]

14 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Rams say Hi 

 

Thats what I was thinking. One in a hundred? It worked twice in one draft. 

 

I really can't understand why people want to play the game of "let's just take what falls to us". I think we tried that once, and the guy that fell to us is unemployed while the others are either Hall of Fame bound or at the very least have been solid starters for over a decade. 

[MJS]

Bull crap. What happened to the Eagles when they traded the farm for their QB?

[#34fan]

9 hours ago, Batman1876 said:

So if he is so obviously good why was he the last FA picked and why did we get him so cheep?

 

He wasn't the last.

AJ was picked up less than a month after winning his grievance against the Bengals and becoming a FA.

Both Sam Bradford and Mike Glennon Signed contracts after that.

As to why he's so cheap... Well, he's still got a lot to prove doesn't he? I think the money is right for where he's at in his career.

[GreggTX]

Not so fast. We might be able to get a decent QB at 6 and still ha e some picks.  Then next year we'll have a lot more for FA's. Trading up to 2, I agree, could be far too expensive. Having a good QB is also a good way to attract good FA's at reasonable rates.

[Boatdrinks]

31 minutes ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

 

Thats what I was thinking. One in a hundred? It worked twice in one draft. 

 

I really can't understand why people want to play the game of "let's just take what falls to us". I think we tried that once, and the guy that fell to us is unemployed while the others are either Hall of Fame bound or at the very least have been solid starters for over a decade. 

Actually , the Bills moved up to draft that QB. He didn't fall to them. 

[ColdFront_USAF]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

Actually , the Bills moved up to draft that QB. He didn't fall to them. 

Thanks for the correction. Was a bit too young to remember exactly how that went, I just knew we took Losman at 22. 

[buffalo2218]

16 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Plus, we've got a huge cap surplas next year....we can be very pro-active in FA then. 

All the more reason to gamble and move up this year. Seriously, missing out on Mahomes and Watson has to be the final straw. With all the grief the fans gave to guys like Whaley, Nix and Levy for missing out on QBs, do we really want to take that chance again knowing we have the ability to move up? 

 

I would risk it this year because to me, either way, McCaron will be the starter. I really don't want to wait another god knows how

many years for another opportunity and waste any more time with project QBs until another QB heavy draft. 

 

How many years have we ignored the QB position hoping to be the exception to the rule? 

Edited April 4, 2018 by buffalo2218

[GunnerBill]

If the Bills move up and get the QB pick right then they will probably not make the playoffs in 2019 but I can see them having a chance to be really, really good in 2020.  

[OldTimer1960]

17 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

Rams say Hi 

The Rams had a very solid defense and a good deal more talent overall when they traded up for Goff than the Bills currently have.

 

Even with the ability to add some players in FA next year, it will hurt if they are missing their 1st pick next year due to a big trade up this year.

 

i would be very surprised if Beane's master plan is to load up on FAs next year eating up all the cap room he just cleared this year. Yes, I think they will sign some FAs, but I wouldn't expect them to spend like drunken sailors.

[What a Tuel]

59 minutes ago, ColdFront_USAF said:

Thanks for the correction. Was a bit too young to remember exactly how that went, I just knew we took Losman at 22. 

 

To be fair Donahoe was too chicken to trade up for Roethlisberger. So we did just let the pieces fall, and who was left? Losman and we still had to trade up to get him. 

[JM57]

18 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Moving up is sexy, it's fun, it's what's for dinner these days. But moving up will set the team's growth back three, maybe five years. Possibly longer. This team has so many holes, that to throw away all these picks on a QB who might be good is insanity. 

 

If we can somehow move up and still have 1 2nd and 1 3rd...I'd be willing to listen. But only for Rosen or Mayfield. Trading up for any of the other QBs is insanity. Especially since Jackson has a very good chance of being there at 12. Hell, he has a good chance of being there at 22.

 

I'd rather pick an elite player at 12 - Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea....etc. Use the rest of the picks on holes like WR, OL, DL, LB....

 

Throwing away this draft along with a first next next year? No thanks. 

I'm sure that it has been covered already in the multiple pages, but if ignoring holes at other positions to move up to #2 and fill the gaping hole at QB means no playoffs for 3 years, how do you explain the 2017 Rams and Eagles?

 

The Bills are set up currently where they could do something very similar to what both of these teams did in the Goff/Wentz draft. That is, give up a bunch of picks in that draft class as collateral to get the QB the franchise thinks is The Guy. They'll have a challenging rookie season, no doubt, but that's likely to be the case no matter how many picks you make in that class. It's just a matter of learning on the job at the NFL level.

 

Come next off-season, the team is flush with cap space and starts bringing in free agents on short term deals to plug those holes, even if only temporarily. Last I heard, the Bills had somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million in cap space for 2019. Even without splurging on top free agents, that is more than enough space to sign guys to plug plenty of holes, then draft the rest. Not to mention, once you have fixed THE HOLE at QB, that helps to mask some of the other deficiencies. 

 

Get the guy. I'm sick of waiting for a franchise QB and even more sick of this team not even trying to get one.

[row_33]

Jimmy G had a very soft slate of opponents, not to say he isn’t the real deal.

 

 

[Batman1876]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

He wasn't the last.

AJ was picked up less than a month after winning his grievance against the Bengals and becoming a FA.

Both Sam Bradford and Mike Glennon Signed contracts after that.

As to why he's so cheap... Well, he's still got a lot to prove doesn't he? I think the money is right for where he's at in his career.

So he’s s mystery who had a lot to prove. How often do guys like that turn into franchise QBs? And he signed after Bradford. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Batman1876

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, Batman1876 said:

Who was the last team to make it in the playoffs and contend year in and year out without a franchise QB? We’ve had years with talented rosters and we lost games because our QB was not good. 

 

Minnesota.  Back in the late 1990s the Vikes went to the playoffs with Brad Johnson (1996 & 1997), Randall Cunningham (1998), Jeff George (1999), Daunte Culpepper (2000).  Then they came back in the last decade to make the playoffs 5 out of the last 10 years despite not having an entrenched franchise QB in his prime:  Gus Frerotte (2008), Favre (2009), Ponder (2012), Bridgewater (2015), and Keenum (2017).   

 

Furthermore, the Bills 17 years of playoff drought wasn't because they lacked a franchise QB.  They failed to make the playoffs for so long primarily because of poor FO decisions, from selecting HCs to drafting players to decisions about which FAs to keep and which FAs to sign.  The Bills had a franchise QB in Drew Bledsoe from 2002-2004, and failed to make the playoffs.  The only year where you actually argue that better QBing would have put them in the playoffs was in 2014 when Marrone dumped Manuel and went with retirement list refugee Kyle Orton who played rather poorly toward the end of the season.   Through most of the drought, the team didn't have enough talent on the sidelines or on the field to even be a playoff contender.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by SoTier

[Batman1876]

So 1 team made the playoffs 50% of the time. Although some of those years they had one of the top QBs in the league that year. 

[CountDorkula]

17 hours ago, Pete said:

It is a well calculated, educated guess.  You pick the QB- and I pick Roquan.  Lets see who makes probowl

An all pro LB Does nothing for a team

AN All Pro QB means your team is a perennial playoff contender. 

8 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Say we do this instead of reaching for a QB:

Round 1 Pick 12:  James, Derwin, SS/FS, Florida State 
Round 1 Pick 22:  Vander Esch, Leighton, OLB/ILB, Boise State
Round 2 Pick 21:  Lauletta, Kyle, QB, Richmond
Round 2 Pick 28 (PITT):  Chark, DJ, WR, LSU 
Round 3 Pick 1:  Sutton, Courtland, WR, Southern Methodist 
Round 3 Pick 28 (PITT):  Christian, Geron, OT, Louisville 
Round 3 Pick 32:  Settle, Tim, DT, Virginia Tech 
Round 4 Pick 21:  Griffin, Shaquem, OLB, Central Florida 
Round 5 Pick 29:  Scarbrough, Bo, RB, Alabama 
Round 6 Pick 13:  Dickson, Michael, P, Texas 

 

Now that's a draft that will plug some holes. Then next year you have the possibility of Lauletta, McCarron, or even Peterman stepping up, or you draft another QB or go after one in FA/trade.

 

Trust me, I'd love to trade up for Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield, too, but I just think the cost is going to be too high.

 

It's a conundrum, I know....

 

That draft gets you a 6-10 to 8-8 record every year. In 3-4 years when half of those players hit UFA and the other 25% turn out to be less than predicted. you are sitting here doing this same stupid song and dance over and over again. 

[T master]

21 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Moving up is sexy, it's fun, it's what's for dinner these days. But moving up will set the team's growth back three, maybe five years. Possibly longer. This team has so many holes, that to throw away all these picks on a QB who might be good is insanity. 

 

If we can somehow move up and still have 1 2nd and 1 3rd...I'd be willing to listen. But only for Rosen or Mayfield. Trading up for any of the other QBs is insanity. Especially since Jackson has a very good chance of being there at 12. Hell, he has a good chance of being there at 22.

 

I'd rather pick an elite player at 12 - Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea....etc. Use the rest of the picks on holes like WR, OL, DL, LB....

 

Throwing away this draft along with a first next next year? No thanks. 

 

I'm with you to an extent if they are to move up if they needed to give a few of this years picks away i would be good with that but not give away enough to jeopardize this & next years drafts that IMHO would be foolish on a none guaranteed pick !

 

I think AJ will be a very good QB for the team better than a lot of fans think he will be & that if they use this years picks as you said to build the team if a realistic situation to move up doesn't come around then that would really benefit the teams future !

 

Next year with all the cap they will have they can either look to FA & get a proven QB or do some finagling to trade or upgrade IF AJ winds up to be less than expected ...

 

GO Bills !! 

[The Now Moment]

21 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

Look at the rest of the Rams team. They're loaded. We're not.

The Rams and Eagles added the rest of their talent after getting their QB...

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

Brewing doing what? Standing on the sidelines for 4 seasons holding a clipboard?

 

I can make a very long list of QB’s that have done that and turned out to be no good at all.

 

Either you are or you aren’t. 

 

 

That just does not follow. It's like saying that of the people who get an education, many fail anyway. Therefore the education doesn't help anyone at all, you either are a failure or you're not and nobody needs an education. It simply does not follow. 

 

Nobody is saying that sitting on the sidelines for a while will help absolutely everybody succeed. Some people simply don't have the capacity to be a successful QB. But there absolutely are some people who are helped by sitting. Aaron Rodgers is one. Carson Palmer is another. And there are plenty more.

 

On Peter King's podcast that I posted yesterday about Josh Allen, NFL QB coaching guru Jordan Palmer makes a very convincing case that every QB out there would be helped by a year to sit. He acknowledges there are political and practical reasons that will never happen for many QBs, but says ideally every college QB would get that time. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but he's absolutely right that many young guys can benefit tremendously.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

 

 

10 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Say we do this instead of reaching for a QB:

Round 1 Pick 12:  James, Derwin, SS/FS, Florida State 
Round 1 Pick 22:  Vander Esch, Leighton, OLB/ILB, Boise State
Round 2 Pick 21:  Lauletta, Kyle, QB, Richmond
Round 2 Pick 28 (PITT):  Chark, DJ, WR, LSU 
Round 3 Pick 1:  Sutton, Courtland, WR, Southern Methodist 
Round 3 Pick 28 (PITT):  Christian, Geron, OT, Louisville 
Round 3 Pick 32:  Settle, Tim, DT, Virginia Tech 
Round 4 Pick 21:  Griffin, Shaquem, OLB, Central Florida 
Round 5 Pick 29:  Scarbrough, Bo, RB, Alabama 
Round 6 Pick 13:  Dickson, Michael, P, Texas 

 

Now that's a draft that will plug some holes. Then next year you have the possibility of Lauletta, McCarron, or even Peterman stepping up, or you draft another QB or go after one in FA/trade.

 

Trust me, I'd love to trade up for Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield, too, but I just think the cost is going to be too high.

 

It's a conundrum, I know....

 

 

 

You're right, the cost may be too high. They should do it anyway.

 

Unless the demands are all our picks from the first three rounds and our next three 1st rounders besides, we should do it anyway.

 

Those guys simply DO NOT make us Super Bowl contenders on a consistent basis a few years down the line, not without a franchise QB they don't. And that's the goal. Nothing less.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Thurman#1

[What a Tuel]

10 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Say we do this instead of reaching for a QB:

Round 1 Pick 12:  James, Derwin, SS/FS, Florida State 
Round 1 Pick 22:  Vander Esch, Leighton, OLB/ILB, Boise State
Round 2 Pick 21:  Lauletta, Kyle, QB, Richmond
Round 2 Pick 28 (PITT):  Chark, DJ, WR, LSU 
Round 3 Pick 1:  Sutton, Courtland, WR, Southern Methodist 
Round 3 Pick 28 (PITT):  Christian, Geron, OT, Louisville 
Round 3 Pick 32:  Settle, Tim, DT, Virginia Tech 
Round 4 Pick 21:  Griffin, Shaquem, OLB, Central Florida 
Round 5 Pick 29:  Scarbrough, Bo, RB, Alabama 
Round 6 Pick 13:  Dickson, Michael, P, Texas 

 

Now that's a draft that will plug some holes. Then next year you have the possibility of Lauletta, McCarron, or even Peterman stepping up, or you draft another QB or go after one in FA/trade.

 

Trust me, I'd love to trade up for Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield, too, but I just think the cost is going to be too high.

 

It's a conundrum, I know....

 

 

Except we could do a bunch of this AND get our QB? Why are we adding in picks we wouldn't be giving up as part of the consequence? If we give up the maximum projected which is 3 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd in return for a 1st rounder, we still have 12 picks for the next two years to fill holes instead of 16.

Edited April 4, 2018 by What a Tuel

[maryland-bills-fan]

Yes, I agree and have another thread which is along the same lines.  We have a lot of holes and that is what the draft picks should be used to fix, unless a very good QB falls into our laps.  Spending everything to move up for a 50% shot at Mr. Wonderful is foolish.  Mr. Wonderful might be a bust just on his own, and since he would be playing with a "B" team supporting cast and defense, he would be wasted. 

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Yes, I agree and have another thread which is along the same lines.  We have a lot of holes and that is what the draft picks should be used to fix, unless a very good QB falls into our laps.  Spending everything to move up for a 50% shot at Mr. Wonderful is foolish.  Mr. Wonderful might be a bust just on his own, and since he would be playing with a "B" team supporting cast and defense, he would be wasted. 

 

In 22 years, since Jim Kelly retired, a QB hasn't fallen into the Bills lap. It led to a 17 year playoff drought. That's really your plan?

[maryland-bills-fan]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

In 22 years, since Jim Kelly retired, a QB hasn't fallen into the Bills lap. It led to a 17 year playoff drought. That's really your plan?

No, my plan is to have a decent QB fall to us at #12. If not we draft somebody in the 2nd round or the #22 pick, and try again next year with a better roster in place.   We wind up with a decent QB and a strong team and win the division as Brady gets injured and retires.  Does that work for you?

[BillsFan17]

How on earth does a garbage thread like this make it ten pages?

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

No, my plan is to have a decent QB fall to us at #12. If not we draft somebody in the 2nd round or the #22 pick, and try again next year with a better roster in place.   We wind up with a decent QB and a strong team and win the division as Brady gets injured and retires.  Does that work for you?

 

So a decent QB is you plan... seriously? 

[What a Tuel]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

In 22 years, since Jim Kelly retired, a QB hasn't fallen into the Bills lap. It led to a 17 year playoff drought. That's really your plan?

 

Not to mention we have tried playing the "fill the holes on the team" game during that time. Like really tried. It was never enough. The vast consensus of what held us back during these years was lack of a QB. Even if we just get one on our roster and even if we don't fill those holes through the draft for 2 years because of it, we can always fill those holes in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and free agency. We won't be in the position we are in now for a long while.

Edited April 4, 2018 by What a Tuel

[maryland-bills-fan]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

So a decent QB is you plan... seriously? 

 

 

Sorry, that is a deep as I will explain it to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Yes, I agree and have another thread which is along the same lines.  We have a lot of holes and that is what the draft picks should be used to fix, unless a very good QB falls into our laps.  Spending everything to move up for a 50% shot at Mr. Wonderful is foolish.  Mr. Wonderful might be a bust just on his own, and since he would be playing with a "B" team supporting cast and defense, he would be wasted. 

There is no hole on the team bigger ( or harder to fix) than the one at QB. Anything else can be found, including WR. If the pick is a bust, you draft another one in a couple years. That's much easier to do than it was pre- rookie cap. Get a QB when you can. That's this year. 

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Not to mention we have tried playing the "fill the holes on the team" game during that time. Like really tried. It was never enough. The vast consensus of what held us back during these years was lack of a QB. Even if we just get one on our roster and even if we don't fill those holes through the draft for 2 years because of it, we can always fill those holes in 2020, 2021, 2022 and free agency. We won't be in the position we are in now for a long while.

 

No, no, all the Bills need is a decent QB. Not good or great... just decent. You know one that doesn't turn the ball over, keeps the game manageable 

[Tyrod's friend]

1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

In 22 years, since Jim Kelly retired, a QB hasn't fallen into the Bills lap. It led to a 17 year playoff drought. That's really your plan?

 

Not sure, but I believe in the 17 years since Kelly has left we've resigned 2 first round picks. 

If you think that we missed the playoffs for 17 years because we didn't draft the right QB, you are missing the larger point. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

23 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

Moving up is sexy, it's fun, it's what's for dinner these days. But moving up will set the team's growth back three, maybe five years. Possibly longer. This team has so many holes, that to throw away all these picks on a QB who might be good is insanity. 

 

If we can somehow move up and still have 1 2nd and 1 3rd...I'd be willing to listen. But only for Rosen or Mayfield. Trading up for any of the other QBs is insanity. Especially since Jackson has a very good chance of being there at 12. Hell, he has a good chance of being there at 22.

 

I'd rather pick an elite player at 12 - Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea....etc. Use the rest of the picks on holes like WR, OL, DL, LB....

 

Throwing away this draft along with a first next next year? No thanks. 

I agree our talent level is not good, there are only 3 player on this roster that I would trade for in Hughes, Shady and White. I don't feel their is a down side to trading up, down or staying put.

[BuffaloHokie13]

4 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

Not sure, but I believe in the 17 years since Kelly has left we've resigned 2 first round picks. 

If you think that we missed the playoffs for 17 years because we didn't draft the right QB, you are missing the larger point. 

On the contrary, almost all of them resigned

 

But really, I know Dareus got a 2nd contract. McKelvin got a 2nd Contract. Lee Evans got an extension. Clements got a 1 year tender. Maybe more? Not sure.

[What a Tuel]

16 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

Not sure, but I believe in the 17 years since Kelly has left we've resigned 2 first round picks. 

If you think that we missed the playoffs for 17 years because we didn't draft the right QB, you are missing the larger point. 

 

So you are going on record right now and saying the Bills had the playoff drought because they missed on drafting and that was more detrimental than missing on QB?