DP Browns want to trade with Giants - Dorsey Confirmed speaking to Gettleman & said Jets didn't offer enough for 1

[starrymessenger]

Sounds like the G-Men dont have to give up picks to land Darnold if the Browns prefer Allen anyway. 

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, section122 said:

Care to share via pm? 

 

I may when it gets closer...

 

 

[Woodman19]

4 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

Here's my thing.  Again, we are working in hypotheticals, but why would the Browns want the Giants to trade up to 1 and take Darnold if they like Allen more?  Why not just take Allen at 1 and be done with it?  To me, they only would entice the Giants to trade up at 1 because they covet 2 to 3 players.  Given the information that we were given, let's say the Browns covet Allen and either Barkley or Chubb.  In either case, they are taking that other guy at 4.  They are not trading the pick.

 

We need to face the possibility of a harsh reality, namely, we might get shut out of the top 4 QB sweepstakes.  It is unfortunate, but it is possible.  I'm hoping for something, anything that lands us a bright signal caller, but at this point, I'm entertaining the possibility that we might get shut out and if we do, what's the next move?

If they can get #2 and get a team to pay up for Darnold #1 it's great value, but as you said there are too many moving parts for Cleveland to mess around with it.

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

Here's my thing.  Again, we are working in hypotheticals, but why would the Browns want the Giants to trade up to 1 and take Darnold if they like Allen more?  Why not just take Allen at 1 and be done with it?  To me, they only would entice the Giants to trade up at 1 because they covet 2 to 3 players.  Given the information that we were given, let's say the Browns covet Allen and either Barkley or Chubb.  In either case, they are taking that other guy at 4.  They are not trading the pick.

 

We need to face the possibility of a harsh reality, namely, we might get shut out of the top 4 QB sweepstakes.  It is unfortunate, but it is possible.  I'm hoping for something, anything that lands us a bright signal caller, but at this point, I'm entertaining the possibility that we might get shut out and if we do, what's the next move?

Take Jackson at twelve.  I'm not keen on Rudolph.  (If the first four go real early, you might even have to make a small jump from twelve to secure Jackson.)  This would be unfortunate, but I don't want to get frozen out of the top five.

[smuvtalker]

7 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

Honestly I think it's more likely that 5 QBs including Jackson are gone before pick 12 than only 3 QBs of the board.

 

Good news, if that happens, Beane will be right, there's going to be a VERY good prospect pushed to 12, someone who would have been gone long before 21.

And the bad news, we would have missed out, yet again, on the chance to grab a potential franchise QB, and even worse, we had a freakin armada of draft capital to swing a trade!

 

You are right, and maybe it does push a very good prospect to 12, but there's literally nobody this year that I would take solace in us drafting that's not named Josh, Baker, or Sam.  Bruce Smith and Reggie White could have a love child named Bruggie, and he could have 32 sacks 19 tfl, and 90 tackles....and if we drafted him at 12 I'd still go in my room and cry.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

55 minutes ago, PIP said:

Don't believe anything the teams are saying at this point its all BS

 

Yep. Reading some of the posts here, you would think many people are new to how the draft, and the lead up to it, works. Teams say all kinds of things, or let out certain "leaks", but there's a reason for that...Thing is, sometimes they're true, but no one believes it due to the nature of this stuff.

 

Come on draft day!

[Woodman19]

1 minute ago, smuvtalker said:

And the bad news, we would have missed out, yet again, on the chance to grab a potential franchise QB, and even worse, we had a freakin armada of draft capital to swing a trade!

 

You are right, and maybe it does push a very good prospect to 12, but there's literally nobody this year that I would take solace in us drafting that's not named Josh, Baker, or Sam.  Bruce Smith and Reggie White could have a love child named Bruggie, and he could have 32 sacks 19 tfl, and 90 tackles....and if we drafted him at 12 I'd still go in my room and cry.

I'm sure if they had a child there would be more than just you going to their room to cry.

[Reed83HOF]

I'm wondering what team put this out there and what their trying to ultimately accomplish by putting this out there...

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Rosen is the only one I would give a kings ransom for. This would be great

Then all 4 would bust and only Rudolph, taken by the Pats at 31,  turns out to be great. 

[sven233]

So, if the Browns really want Allen and they are concerned the Jets will take him, it's time to get on the phone with the Browns.  We get to #1 to take Darnold.  Then, the Browns have to work out a deal with the Giants to get from 4 to 2.  This allows the Browns to get the QB they want and, since the Jets are going QB anyway, the Giants still get their guy at 4. 

 

Every team wins in this scenario.

[richardb1952]

I believe Bills will be denied 3 of 4 top QB prospects up to pick 5.  If Broncos aren't interested in the 4th or 5th QB (likely Mayfield/ Jackson), they might be willing to trade, or they might take a CB or Chubb if available.  Beware of Arizona moving up.   Bills may have messed up in not getting that third round pick but I think they really only wanted Allen/ Darnold at position 1, 2, 3.  I don't see them moving up further until they absolutely see how it all shakes out.  

[PIZ]

1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

we are F'ed if the Giants take Darnold.  it would absolutely screw up our chances of getting one of the top guys.  we need Cleveland to take Darnold at 1

 

How do we know that the Giants covet Darnold.  That too could be a smokescreen, and they may want Allen.  No one really knows.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, billspro said:

Well if they want Allen just trade the number 1 to us and take him at 4. 

Because every homer on this board has the Jets taking Allen, or any QB not named Rosen. So Allen won't be there at #4 for the Browns. Now with this rumor all those Allen picks for the Jets will be switched to Mayfield.

[cba fan]

16 minutes ago, sven233 said:

So, if the Browns really want Allen and they are concerned the Jets will take him, it's time to get on the phone with the Browns.  We get to #1 to take Darnold.  Then, the Browns have to work out a deal with the Giants to get from 4 to 2.  This allows the Browns to get the QB they want and, since the Jets are going QB anyway, the Giants still get their guy at 4. 

 

Every team wins in this scenario.

Only the Browns, who currently own the 1st and 4th pick, could be hoodwinked into giving up draft pick assets to improve the most attractive 1st round sitting position in decades by putting out, or believing other teams, putting out fake news.

 

Why would any team be tempted to try and improve a draft they have the 1st and 4th pick? Has someone gone crazy in Cleveland??

 

Maybe they should trade 5 future 1st rounders to get Giants 2nd pick then try to pry Jets 3rd pick so they have all the first 1-2-3-4 1st round picks.

Go Big Dog Browns or go home. All crazy talk.

Edited March 26, 2018 by cba fan

[billsgpr88]

1 hour ago, NewEraBills said:

Would be interesting.  The Browns dangle the Darnold "fruit" LOL (doesn't sound right), so that the Giants trade to 1 for him.  Then the Browns take Allen at 2 and Barkely at 4. Ideally,   the Browns maybe trying to land a QB and Barkley.   This is all hypothetical of course but let's say they know the Giants like Darnold and Barkley.  So if they take Darnold at 1 then the Giants take Barkley at 2.  But they want to walk away with a generational talent at HB and a future signal caller and are willing to swap picks with the Giants to do it.

 

If this happened, Allen and Barkley would then be the "fruit" of Darnold's dangle

[Chuck Wagon]

There's something to be said for moving down at getting more for the guy you are still going to take, but man does it feel cowardly coming from the Browns.  It would be amazing if there's someone (Jets?) that really want Allen, the Browns trade with the Giants for a ~3rd round pick then the Giants turn around and flip pick #1 for way more and the Browns' guy gets picked right out from under them.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I get the feeling that these teams are using the Bills wanting to moving up to drive up prices and get teams to overpay. The Jets overpaid to get the Colts pick because Buffalo wanted it and now Cleveland is no doubt using news that Buffalo is trying to trade for Darnold to get the Giants to move up and take him. I feel used.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I get the feeling that these teams are using the Bills wanting to moving up to drive up prices and get teams to overpay. The Jets overpaid to get the Colts pick because Buffalo wanted it and now Cleveland is no doubt using news that Buffalo is trying to trade for Darnold to get the Giants to move up and take him. I feel used.

And in the end we prob end up taking Lamar Jackson at 12......

 

Beane pulling the puppet strings

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

And in the end we prob end up taking Lamar Jackson at 12......

 

Beane pulling the puppet strings

 

AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDS
 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

And in the end we prob end up taking Lamar Jackson at 12......

 

Beane pulling the puppet strings

This is my nightmare scenario.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Call_Of_Ktulu

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

This is accurate my nightmare scenario.

Watch him end up being the best qb to come out of this draft

[YoloinOhio]

52 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I'm wondering what team put this out there and what their trying to ultimately accomplish by putting this out there...

Maybe the Browns want OBJ and will trade the Giants the #1 pick for the right to take him off their hands and pay him. The NYG get their QB and say, Corey Coleman who the Browns are ready to move on from. Browns sell them on fact they really want Darnold and will take him there if no trade, but if they can get obj they are willing to move some things around given the fact they already have a starting QB and have some flexibility.

 

But they really wanted Allen all along, and will take him at 2.  

[2003Contenders]

In addition to trying to toy with the Giants and potentially extort a pick or two from them, it is certainly possible that the Browns could also be playing games with the players' agents.

 

The Browns did the same thing back in 1999, when Tim Couch was the apple of their eye. They suggested right up until draft day that Akili Smith was also in play at #1 overall. The Browns never had any serious interest in Smith but just wanted to present the threat of looking elsewhere for the #1 overall pick as part of a negotiation tactic with Couch's people. I know the advent of the Rookie cap and slotting helps to ease some of the negotiating process, but things like signing bonuses and guaranteed money are still in play.

 

Remember that the Browns met with Darnold's family and agent last week. That was very highly publicized. We dd not hear nearly as much about who all they met with in Wyoming on Friday.

[Logic]

As pointed out on Twitter this morning, the Browns:

- Gave up a high 3rd round pick for a very capable bridge QB and immediately named him starter
- Also signed Drew Stanton (Starter: Tyrod, Backup: Stanton, 3rd/development: Rookie)
- Have a GM who was involved in the drafting and redshirting of Mahomes and Rodgers
- Have an OC (Todd Haley) who most recently had success with a big-armed, strong QB (Big Ben)

No one should be the least bit surprised if the Browns DO, in fact, take Josh Allen. And my, what a Browns-y thing that would be! Here's hoping it happens!

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Logic said:

As pointed out on Twitter this morning, the Browns:

- Gave up a high 3rd round pick for a very capable bridge QB and immediately named him starter
- Also signed Drew Stanton (Starter: Tyrod, Backup: Stanton, 3rd/development: Rookie)
- Have a GM who was involved in the drafting and redshirting of Mahomes and Rodgers
- Have an OC (Todd Haley) who most recently had success with a big-armed, strong QB (Big Ben)

No one should be the least bit surprised if the Browns DO, in fact, take Josh Allen. And my, what a Browns-y thing that would be! Here's hoping it happens!

 

Nothing would make me more happy than Allen going #1 and we get either Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold.  It would be a dream.

 

[YoloinOhio]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

As pointed out on Twitter this morning, the Browns:

- Gave up a high 3rd round pick for a very capable bridge QB and immediately named him starter
- Also signed Drew Stanton (Starter: Tyrod, Backup: Stanton, 3rd/development: Rookie)
- Have a GM who was involved in the drafting and redshirting of Mahomes and Rodgers
- Have an OC (Todd Haley) who most recently had success with a big-armed, strong QB (Big Ben)

No one should be the least bit surprised if the Browns DO, in fact, take Josh Allen. And my, what a Browns-y thing that would be! Here's hoping it happens!

He’s going to be pretty good imo, for a team with the time and patience to allow him to develop. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

He’s going to be pretty good imo, for a team with the time and patience to allow him to develop. 

I agree. I think Allen is going to run the league for a long time personally.

[NewEraBills]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

As pointed out on Twitter this morning, the Browns:

- Gave up a high 3rd round pick for a very capable bridge QB and immediately named him starter
- Also signed Drew Stanton (Starter: Tyrod, Backup: Stanton, 3rd/development: Rookie)
- Have a GM who was involved in the drafting and redshirting of Mahomes and Rodgers
- Have an OC (Todd Haley) who most recently had success with a big-armed, strong QB (Big Ben)

No one should be the least bit surprised if the Browns DO, in fact, take Josh Allen. And my, what a Browns-y thing that would be! Here's hoping it happens!

 

Except that this time, they have the right people surrounding Allen and he'd be in a perfect situation.  It might be Brownsy, but I think that would be a perfect situation for Allen to succeed.

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Nothing would make me more happy than Allen going #1 and we get either Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold.  It would be a dream.

 

Me too. Allen could go #1, but there's no way the Bills get one of the top four QBs imo. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

Me too. Allen could go #1, but there's no way the Bills get one of the top four QBs imo. 

 

Why do you think that?

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

He’s going to be pretty good imo, for a team with the time and patience to allow him to develop. 

I respectfully disagree, and will be more than ready to eat crow if I'm wrong. 

I'll admit to being predisposed to anti-Allen bias by being a Bills fan, and thus being terrified of big-armed, inaccurate QBs who "check all of the physical boxes" but can't actually play QB well. Nevertheless...as pointed out by The Ringer, in all major measurable quarterback performance metrics, Josh Allen ranks DEAD LAST among draftable quarterbacks this year. Dead last. 

To choose him over guys like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold -- who are superior in every statistical category despite playing against vastly superior competition -- simply based on the idea that Allen has a cannon arm and big upside, would be foolhardy and arrogant. I expect it to happen, though, because NFL GMs ARE often foolhardy and arrogant, and they fall into this trap over and over again.

Again, I recognize that scouting (especially at the QB position) and projecting players into the NFL is a very complex business, and I'll admit if I'm way off on this one. But I don't think I am. Allen terrifies me.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Logic

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I agree. I think Allen is going to run the league for a long time personally.

Darnold is more raw than Allen. His footwork is a mess. He has less than 2 years experience playing cfb. He is turnover prone - that doesn’t usually get better in the pros. However his strengths are making plays under duress and when things break down in the pocket. He is definitely an Aaron Rodgers type given the time to develop. Last part is key. He should have gone back to school but I understand why he didn’t. 

[dezertbill]

3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Josh Norris‏Verified account @JoshNorris 3m3 minutes ago

This morning on the @dpshow, Dan Patrick cites a scouting source saying the Browns are using their "love" of Sam Darnold as bait, hoping the Giants trade up to No. 1... adding the Browns prefer Josh Allen.

 

 

To me this means the Browns have a potential deal in place w/ Buffalo and the Bills covet Darnold.  

 

Why else would the Browns try to bait Gmen to move up one spot for a QB they don’t  want.

 

My sense is Browns know if Bills take Darnold, GIants will take Barkley or Chubb.  That leaves 2 of 3 (either Allen, ROsen, Mayfield), at 4. Browns must know Jets would rather have Rosen or Mayfield and they will still get Allen.

 

So their message to gettlemen is you either trade up to get your QB or lose him to Buffalo. 

 

I know there is a lot of what if. But I truly believe teams at the top have a sense of who wants what player by now. That’s why the are able to jockey so freely. 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by dezertbill

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I respectfully disagree, and will be more than ready to eat crow if I'm wrong. 

I'll admit to being predisposed to anti-Allen bias by being a Bills fan, and thus being terrified of big-armed, inaccurate QBs who "check all of the physical boxes" but can't actually play QB well. Nevertheless...as pointed out by The Ringer, in all major measurable quarterback performance metrics, Josh Allen ranks DEAD LAST among draftable quarterbacks this year. Dead last. 

To choose him over guys like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold -- who are superior in every statistical category despite playing against vastly superior competition -- simply based on the idea that he has a cannon arm and big upside, would be foolhardy and arrogant. I expect it to happen, though, because NFL GMs ARE often foolhardy and arrogant, and they fall into this trap over and over again.

Again, I recognize that scouting (especially at the QB position) and projecting players into the NFL is a very complex business, and I'll admit if I'm way off on this one. But I don't think I am. Allen terrifies me.

 

I feel the same way about Allen.  I know he played at Wyoming and doesn't have the greatest talent to work with but also didn't play against higher level competition consistently.

His production is just lacking for me.

 

I haven't seen Allen play a lot so I'm relying on what other "experts" are saying about him and the video I've seen....both highlights, lowlights and breakdowns.  His accuracy is just so inconsistent I'm not sure it can be fixed.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I feel the same way about Allen.  I know he played at Wyoming and doesn't have the greatest talent to work with but also didn't play against higher level competition consistently.

His production is just lacking for me.

 

I haven't seen Allen play a lot so I'm relying on what other "experts" are saying about him and the video I've seen....both highlights, lowlights and breakdowns.  His accuracy is just so inconsistent I'm not sure it can be fixed.

Don't you talk about the Mountain West like that!

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Don't you talk about the Mountain West like that!

 

They definitely have a great conference name....Mountain West sounds pretty cool.

[Reed83HOF]

53 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Maybe the Browns want OBJ and will trade the Giants the #1 pick for the right to take him off their hands and pay him. The NYG get their QB and say, Corey Coleman who the Browns are ready to move on from. Browns sell them on fact they really want Darnold and will take him there if no trade, but if they can get obj they are willing to move some things around given the fact they already have a starting QB and have some flexibility.

 

But they really wanted Allen all along, and will take him at 2.  

That would be one heck of a blockbuster trade!

[Chuck Wagon]

I do thoroughly enjoy how people have decided Allen is just garbage who has no chance of success.

[Seventeen]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I feel the same way about Allen.  I know he played at Wyoming and doesn't have the greatest talent to work with but also didn't play against higher level competition consistently.

His production is just lacking for me.

 

I haven't seen Allen play a lot so I'm relying on what other "experts" are saying about him and the video I've seen....both highlights, lowlights and breakdowns.  His accuracy is just so inconsistent I'm not sure it can be fixed.

 

Russell Wilson played in the ACC his 1st 3 years and was sub 60% completion. Transferred to Wisconsin and was 70 +.  If Wilson had come out after his junior year, folks would have said the same thing about him.

 

I would like to think Allen would have improved his senior year, but no way to really know. I'm sure part of his decision was related to how Wyoming was looking for next year.

 

[CLTbills]

3 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Rosen is the only one I would give a kings ransom for. This would be great

I agree here. If the Jets take Baker at 3, I have no problem trading up to 4 for Rosen