Rumor: Trade up discussion with Giants

[BuffaloRebound]

If next years 1st rounder is included, all I'm giving is the three 1st rounders and keeping the other picks.  Next years 1st rounder could easily be a top 5 pick with a rookie and McCarron at QB.  I'm sure Beane is smart enough to sell it that way.  If we kept Tyrod, it'd be a different story.  

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

I don't know why people think this sort of disclaimer is insightful.  If they make the move up, of course they believe it's the franchise guy.

Do you think it’s possible that McBeane likes more then one guy ? And would be willing to move up if one of them is still there ? 

Thats what scares me , I hope there’s one QB that he’s ready to give up ( the farm as they say ) 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Wait i thought ICB was a fraud?  Someone tell me what to believe?  This is playing with my emotions 

“Take this as you will” - means you decide whether you believe it based on what you think of him as a source and other things that are out there. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Anybody but Rosen.  Can't see him wanting to be here, can't see him fitting with this regime (doesn't "trust the process"), already said he didn't want to be in Cleveland, fragile.  I don't believe we would ever take him, and I will be bitterly disappointed if we do!

[P51]

36 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Take this as you will

 

 

 

Some quick numbers;

 

As is...

J. Johnson trade chart: Giants 2600 pts, Bills 2615 pts, plus a 2019 2nd round as a sweetner (265 points estimate, as 1st pick in 3rd round value) roughly 2880 pts total. Personally I think given the Jets trade (34% increase/23rd pick in draft value) it will take a little more to seal the deal. 11% increase? Ideal for Buffalo, but unlikely IMO from the Giants. 280 pts is 63rd/64th pick value. Could hold still and see if the Giants bite. 

 

Probably need to be more like this...

J. Johnson trade value chart: Giants 2600 pts, Bills #12, #22, #53, #56, #65 (pts) and 2019 2nd round pick (265 estimate again) is 3220 pts total and an 24% increase... Still might not be enough, 620 pts is the 30th pick, still 140 pts off the Jets trade value which is about the value of the 90th pick. This is where I would hold firm, regardless. 

Equivalent of #2 for 2-1sts, 2-nds and a 2-3rds.

Add pick 96 (116pts) and its still only a 28% increase in value, about the 24th pick in the draft. 

Thats pick #2 for the equivalent of 2-1sts, 2-2nds and 3-3rds. 

 

As is...

Rich Hill trade chart: Giants 717.17 pts, Bills 861.43 pts (2019 2nd rounder estimate value 2018 65th pick (rd3/pick1) 77.95pts), 144.26 pt difference (roughly the 41st pick (rd2/pick 9)) and an 20% increase.

 

Probably need to be more like this.... 

R. Hill trade chart: Giants 717.17 pts, Bills #12, #22, #53, #56, and 2019 2nd round (estimate value 77.95pts) for a total of 881.75 pts, 164.58 pts increase, 23% increase or the 36th pick (rd2/pick 4) value. This is where I would hold firm, regardless. 

Equivalent of #2 for 2-1sts, 2-nds and a 3rd.

Add pick 65 (77.95pts) and the value meets the Jets trade value (+34%) roughly the 23rd pick in the draft. 

Thats pick #2 for the equivalent of 2-1sts, 2-2nds and 2-3rds. 

 

Hopefully they (Giants) use the R. Hill trade chart and value the 2019 2nd round pick similarly to me... Either way, I dont see the Giants not countering higher at least the 56th pick in addition. 

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Sooo “Rumor” and “take this as you will” = gospel in your world.

  No, you put the proper disclaimer in but to numerous others this applies but it would be tedious to re-list my opinion versus putting at the head of the story.  Next time I will make sure I don't throw a quote in if a similar situation arises.  My intent was to question Inc Bob's accuracy when it comes to speculation.

[Putin]

1 minute ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Anybody but Rosen.  Can't see him wanting to be here, can't see him fitting with this regime (doesn't "trust the process"), already said he didn't want to be in Cleveland, fragile.  I don't believe we would ever take him, and I will be bitterly disappointed if we do!

I wouldn’t even take him if we stayed at 12 , and he was still on the board 

[Meazy26]

3 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Anybody but Rosen.  Can't see him wanting to be here, can't see him fitting with this regime (doesn't "trust the process"), already said he didn't want to be in Cleveland, fragile.  I don't believe we would ever take him, and I will be bitterly disappointed if we do!

Kelly didn't want to be here... that turned out well.

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I'd much rather they take a swing then be yet another regime that settles in hopes of finding a diamond in the rough.

 

So just curious - if they trade up for Rosen and he busts, should they be fired? Are we accepting the inherent unpredictability of picking a QB high, or are we demanding they get this right on their first shot? I remember when Jameis Winston was a can't miss prospect...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Sooo “Rumor” and “take this as you will” = gospel in your world.

to some people yes.  

 

Fool me once ....... 

Where is Dunkirk's Hanging Chad when you need him or her?  

 

[DCOrange]

18 minutes ago, DJB said:

 

Has he though ?  I'm not  sure. He definitely  flopped on the last foles rumor

 

The beauty and curse of rumors is that if they don’t pan out, there’s no actual proof that they weren’t true at the time. We’ll never be able to disprove IB’s assertion that the Bills offered a 2nd round pick for Foles. 

 

Edit: I personally take IB with a major grain of salt, but I do trust him when it involves NYC teams like the Giants. He’s proven to have good connections there IMO.

Edited March 20, 2018 by DCOrange

[RochesterRob]

3 minutes ago, Meazy26 said:

Kelly didn't want to be here... that turned out well.

  Don't count on that happening twice.

[Putin]

3 minutes ago, Meazy26 said:

Kelly didn't want to be here... that turned out well.

Yah but Kelly was a LB playing QB , Rosen could be one hit away form going into politics 

[26CornerBlitz]

16 minutes ago, Putin said:

Yah but Kelly was a LB playing QB , Rosen could be one hit away form going into politics 

 

Rosen is 6'4" 225 lbs.  Seems plenty sturdy to sustain NFL punishment. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[CaptnCoke11]

10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

“Take this as you will” - means you decide whether you believe it based on what you think of him as a source and other things that are out there. 

Just waiting for someone to tell me what to think.  Normally what goes on around here 

[RochesterRob]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So just curious - if they trade up for Rosen and he busts, should they be fired? Are we accepting the inherent unpredictability of picking a QB high, or are we demanding they get this right on their first shot? I remember when Jameis Winston was a can't miss prospect...

  Of course they should be fired according to the move up crowd here and they will be brandishing the torches and pitchforks under new accounts complete with I told them this was going to fail or the tea leaves said it was going to fail.

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Rosen is 6'4 225 lbs.  Seems plenty sturdy to sustain NFL punishment. 

He already had 2 concussions 

( if I’m not mistaken )  

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

That is exactly what my opening offer would be..... that isn't to say I believe the rumour.... but that is where I would start.  Let the Giants try and talk me up from there.  

If the Giants don't want to take a qb with their high pick some version of this deal would make a lot of sense for them. For Buffalo it would be a good deal because we have a bonus pick in the first, second and third round. So essentially we would still have the normal number of picks in most of the rounds. If the Giants squeeze us harder and demand a first round pick next year I would with a stone face (masking my happy face) say where do I sign? 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Putin said:

He already had 2 concussions 

( if I’m not mistaken )  

 

That he's recovered from with no lingering issues.  

[Chuck Wagon]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So just curious - if they trade up for Rosen and he busts, should they be fired? Are we accepting the inherent unpredictability of picking a QB high, or are we demanding they get this right on their first shot? I remember when Jameis Winston was a can't miss prospect...

 

 

If you've already decided the QB is going to be E.J. 2.0, why don't you find something more enjoyable to do with your time?

[MarlinTheMagician]

Two concussions and a rotator cuff.  Shut down after six games in 2016.  Shoulder surgery he characterized as "minor" - but who knows (I trust Beane to find out, hate to see a repeat of two years ago).  I believe 6'4" but seriously question 225. Does not appear that thickly built.  No thanks.  He is a highly opinionated West Coast guy who I just can't see loving the cold, the snow, and, frankly. our town.  He "treasures" playing in LA according to one interview.  Read a lot about him, but who knows if accurate.  Please no. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If the Giants don't want to take a qb with their high pick some version of this deal would make a lot of sense for them. For Buffalo it would be a good deal because we have a bonus pick in the first, second and third round. So essentially we would still have the normal number of picks in most of the rounds. If the Giants squeeze us harder and demand a first round pick next year I would with a stone face (masking my happy face) say where do I sign? 

 

The question for me is if they ask for 3 1st rounders (2x 2018 and 1x 2019) how much else do I have to give up?  If it is those three picks I think there is an argument for it being just those 3 picks.  

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, rodneykm said:

I'd be fine with the two 1sts this year but if I do that I wouldn't be willing to give up next years 1st. 

 

I wonder if next year’s first might be the price.  That would be my counter if I was the Giants. Personally I would give up next year’s one and try to dilute the back end of our offer (eg, include the lower picks in the second and third rounds).  But even if it takes next years one without that dilution I would make the trade today.

 

 We have the cap space to buy players next year in lieu of that pick, but we likely won’t have the capital to get a QB then. I assume this was Beanes design, and it was brilliant.

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Two concussions and a rotator cuff.  Shut down after six games in 2016.  Shoulder surgery he characterized as "minor" - but who knows (I trust Beane to find out, hate to see a repeat of two years ago).  I believe 6'4" but seriously question 225. Does not appear that thickly built.  No thanks.  He is a highly opinionated West Coast guy who I just can't see loving the cold, the snow, and, frankly. our town.  He "treasures" playing in LA according to one interview.  Read a lot about him, but who knows if accurate.  Please no. 

 

 

We should probably suspend operations as a franchise until a QB from the Rust Belt comes around.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Two concussions and a rotator cuff.  Shut down after six games in 2016.  Shoulder surgery he characterized as "minor" - but who knows (I trust Beane to find out, hate to see a repeat of two years ago).  I believe 6'4" but seriously question 225. Does not appear that thickly built.  No thanks.  He is a highly opinionated West Coast guy who I just can't see loving the cold, the snow, and, frankly. our town.  He "treasures" playing in LA according to one interview.  Read a lot about him, but who knows if accurate.  Please no. 

 

His official combine weight was 226 lbs; there's no reason to question it.

[eball]

2 hours ago, JXCOL3 said:

The best part about this if it does happen is that we could potentially box out the jets from the QB they wanted. Which would make this trade that much better

 

I don't know, I think it's a pretty safe bet that the QB the Jets want is the one nobody else does.

[Nihilarian]

1 minute ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Two concussions and a rotator cuff.  Shut down after six games in 2016.  Shoulder surgery he characterized as "minor" - but who knows (I trust Beane to find out, hate to see a repeat of two years ago).  I believe 6'4" but seriously question 225. Does not appear that thickly built.  No thanks.  He is a highly opinionated West Coast guy who I just can't see loving the cold, the snow, and, frankly. our town.  He "treasures" playing in LA according to one interview.  Read a lot about him, but who knows if accurate.  Please no. 

 

I agree. I would rather Darnold over Rosen. I hope they stay put or trade up slightly for Mayfield, Allen. 

 

Three firsts this year for a QB is a desperation move. I don't see a Wentz, Luck in those first two. 

[eball]

I'm very torn about giving up that much, but I haven't done the research these guys have as to the QB they think will take us over the top.  They had better be right.

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Take this as you will

 

 

 

I'd rather give up next year's #1 than this year's #53 and #65 and the 2019 #2.     

 

They need to plug holes NOW for a rookie QB.   If they get no help in this year's draft, they'll be going down the same road that ruined so many other #1 QB picks, IMO... 

[nucci]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

We should probably suspend operations as a franchise until a QB from the Rust Belt comes around.

Blue collar, lunch pail, wing eating Buffalo guy, right?

Just now, Lurker said:

 

I'd rather give up next year's #1 than this year's #53 and #65 and the 2019 #2.     

 

They need to plug holes NOW for a rookie QB.   If they get no help in this year's draft, they'll be going down the same road that ruined so many other #1 QB picks, IMO... 

They still have a 2nd and 3rd in this draft....not advocating the trade but still have picks available

[eball]

1 minute ago, Nihilarian said:

I agree. I would rather Darnold over Rosen. I hope they stay put or trade up slightly for Mayfield, Allen. 

 

Three firsts this year for a QB is a desperation move. I don't see a Wentz, Luck in those first two. 

 

If you follow Daniel Jeremiah (I don't, but he's apparently a pretty dialed in draft analyst) he has Darnold ahead of Wentz (as a prospect) and Rosen just behind him.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Just say no to Rosen.  I trust them picking among the others, and even Rosen if he is their guy.  I will be as big a fan as anyone if he is picked, but I think he gets broken in the NFL and has a high-risk of being a pain in the tail.  And I think he would hate, hate being in Buffalo.

[gobills1212]

13 minutes ago, Putin said:

He already had 2 concussions 

( if I’m not mistaken )  

i forget which pundit it was - but they said most guys come out of college w at least 2 concussions (reported or not) fwiw

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

I'd rather give up next year's #1 than this year's #53 and #65 and the 2019 #2.     

 

They need to plug holes NOW for a rookie QB.   If they get no help in this year's draft, they'll be going down the same road that ruined so many other #1 QB picks, IMO... 

I know that I sound like a broken record but I think that the 2019 1st is their best asset. That is the deal breaker for me. I’d keep loading the picks from this year.  You are getting guys this year with those picks. You may get a star DL with that 2019 1st. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

The Bills want Allen or Darnold is my guess.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

I know that I sound like a broken record but I think that the 2019 1st is their best asset. That is the deal breaker for me. I’d keep loading the picks from this year.  You are getting guys this year with those picks. You may get a star DL with that 2019 1st. 

 

What if it was 3 1s but keep every other pick? Trying to work out how I feel about that as an option....

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Take this as you will

 

 

Yolo, it's ICB. If he right it's by coincidence.

[BuffaloRebound]

I don't think we'll have to pay a giant premium to trade up to #2.  It's in the Giants interest as well to not let the Jets get the 2nd best QB.  

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

What if it was 3 1s but keep every other pick? Trying to work out how I feel about that as an option....

I don’t like it still personally. I’d rather 12, 22, 53, 56 & 2019 2nd. I think if they go up and get Rosen now and then Bosa/Oliver/Gary etc... with the 2019 1st they are heading in the right direction. I think that star DL are tough to get. They are probably 2nd only to QB in terms of scarcity. I’d give the picks this year and hope to hit at 65 (or 53/56) and 96. I’m assuming that the Bills will have to give 4 of their first 5 picks from this draft. That’s okay with me.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I know that I sound like a broken record but I think that the 2019 1st is their best asset. That is the deal breaker for me. I’d keep loading the picks from this year.  You are getting guys this year with those picks. You may get a star DL with that 2019 1st. 

 

I used to have next years first as a dealbreaker as well but changed my mind recently.  

 

With all all the cap space we will have next year, we could fill a need with a free agent.  

 

Also because I think we can build off of last year so I am expecting (hope is probably the better word) that this pick will be in the middle 20’s.  If I thought the Bills would regress and the first next year is top 12....I wouldn’t do it.