Refs miss obvious illegal formation penalty on Foles TD catch

[Ol Dirty B]

I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

[Ol Dirty B]

48 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Eagles kick off to Cheats who down the ball.  On first and 10 from the 25, Cheats WR is stepping on 25 yard line, no offsides call.  The refs in this league miss plays every game, a lot of them.  It's why I stopped doing the Zebra Report, it was a waste of time.

 

It was a waste of time because that call rarely gets made anyways.

 

If that's what you are looking to point out, get over it. Tons of relatively inconsequential things are looked over in every sport.

[papazoid]

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, papazoid said:

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

 

Problem is that is not PI at most that is illegal contact since the ball is not in the air at that point.  They could of had an extra play, but I think it was a good no call.

[mjt328]

11 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

It was not.The camera angle creates the impression. It is a matter of camera perspective in the strictest definition.

 

Actually I was being sarcastic.

[mead107]

Refs never get anything wrong.   

[oldmanfan]

Bottom line: he checked with the ref and the ref gave him the OK.  Ergo, it was not a penalty.  we of course have those here who claim the ref is wrong or that the player was lying, but no reason to take any of that seriously.  It is a judgment call, the ref makes the judgment, and that's that.  The ref makes the judgment because that is his job.

 

The call on the back of the end zone pass?  Could have gone either way.  But, again, it is a judgment.  And that's what refs do: make judgment calls.  Personally I wish they'd get rid of replay entirely, and allow the teams and the fans to simply accept that human error can happen at times.

 

I'm sorry some people want to have the world as all black and white when in reality the world is a series of grays. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

As for "moving the ball," yeah, you can move the ball but when he initially catches it he appears to have control but not be sure of it. More than half of the ball is out but he's got what appears to be a good grip and both feet down.

 

Then that's a catch right there, as long as he has control when he goes to the ground.

 

Quote

But then his left foot comes off the ground and he lets go with both hands to move them to a surer grip. He gets the better grip but his left foot having been in the air lands half in and half out. Incompletion. 

 

I don't see both hands come off the ball.  I can find no angle on the Interwebs where you can see both hands come off the ball.  The ball is not being bobbled or juggled - you agree with that, yes?  It's not slipping down his body or popping up towards his chin?

 

To call moving the ball as he steps out of bounds "losing control" or an incompletion, would be adding a new rule.

 

I agree there is no "toe dragging" but whether or not his foot steps out of bounds while he's moving the ball is irrelevant, as long as the ball is in control as he goes to the ground.

 

 

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

 

Where was Brady at that point, is key.  Remember Sherman blowing up Powell in Seattle?

If Brady is in the pocket, it's PI.  If Brady has rolled out of the pocket at that point (I believe he had), it's not PI, it's a legal mugging.

 

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

 

I think he was headhunting, legally.  But while I'm sorry for Cooks, after Gronk mugged Tre White after the whistle and stayed in the game, I've had a big layer of "sorry" stripped right off the top of me where Pats as a team are concerned.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Come on, that's not three yards.

 

The WR's foot is slightly inside the three yard-line and the LOS is the one and a half. As folks say, it wasn't a worry if he confirmed it with the ref, but that's no three yards. There was another play much earlier where it was clear a play went against the Pats. Can't remember what it was. But it happened.

 

Apparently the relevant body parts are the center's hip and the WR helmet (head), not his hips.  I give him maybe half a yard.

[CommonCents]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

I loved it. If you don't want to get knocked out stop dancing in the middle of the field.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I didn't realize by the letter of the law it was a legal hit.

 

It still is a bad look for the NFL, that a hit like that where he clearly targeted Cooks head with his helmet at full speed is tolerated. Remember how many people watch the Super Bowl. A lot of Moms just had confirmed in their minds why they won't allow kids to play.

 

 I stand by my comment about it having a bigger impact than the Jeffery incident.

[Albwan]

Who gives a &^%$ ...%^$# the pats

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

2 hours ago, papazoid said:

The Eagles committed pass interference on the last play of Super Bowl LII. Why didn't refs throw a flag ?

 

http://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/05/eagles-pass-interference-patriots-super-bowl-final-play-hail-mary/

 

I call that a good no call. Every Eagle is turned around, and contact is far less than the mugging than Gronk regularly doles out to DBs

[Matt_In_NH]

Jeffery checked with the official, this was legal.   There is a lot of leeway given with receivers and lineman being "on the line".  OTs are often a couple yards back on obvious pass plays.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/2/4/16972192/nick-foles-touchdown-illegal-formation

[cba fan]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I just don't see what either of you two do.

 

The whole foot has to get down inbounds. He's not sliding that foot, he's stepping. If any part of the foot hits out, it's out. And it's out.

 

As for "moving the ball," yeah, you can move the ball but when he initially catches it he appears to have control but not be sure of it. More than half of the ball is out but he's got what appears to be a good grip and both feet down.

 

But then his left foot comes off the ground and he lets go with both hands to move them to a surer grip. He gets the better grip but his left foot having been in the air lands half in and half out. Incompletion. 

 

A virtually impossible play to call at game speed but if there was a conspiracy, they'd have gone the Pats way initially and that might have been tough or even impossible to overturn.

 

 

Yeah, or guys in motion coming to a stop but not holding it for the second they're supposed to. The play starts milliseconds after they were moving. Never gets called. 

 

It is hard to see unless you blow up the vid to full screen and play in slow mo due to navy blue end zone. At 41 sec mark you can clearly see a dark line mark made as his toes slide on turf kicking up rubber pellets of the turf. That means he is touching in bounds. Just like the dark strip KB made dragging his toes in NE on TD called back vs Pats this year. Except Eagle has ball secure as he already changed hands unlike KB did.

 

at 1:08 he clearly has ball secure in left arm. Right foot down and left foot toes ar starting to drag. He never steps down flat footed, and toes slide out of bounds.

 

The whole foot does not need to get in bounds. That only comes into play when a player steps straight down like a normal step walking, and contacts heel first then toes come down flat. For some reason then NFL considers that out of bounds if heel is in but flat footed toes are out. It was reversed in Bills favor in MN Super Bowl vs Wash on end line in end zone negating a Wash TD. You could argue if heel touches down first then completing the step flat footed with toes out could still be legal catch but NFL has set precedence for that and they say Out of bounds. If you are going to argue Eagles needed whole foot to be inbounds you are wrong. He never steps flat he slides his toes and that is all he needs to do.

 

Just when he gets full control in left arm after changing ball position his right foot is down, he then drags his left toes inbounds and maintains control in left arm before his toes reach the white. TD all day.

Edited February 6, 2018 by cba fan

[Solomon Grundy]

Here's a famous quote "there's no there there"!!

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Doc]

If Jeffery checked with the ref, it doesn't matter. 

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

If Jeffery checked with the ref, it doesn't matter. 

 

I'm not complaining at all with a call going against the Patriots after all of the "breaks" they have received from the officials over the years. 

[Boatdrinks]

On 2/6/2018 at 1:31 AM, Ol Dirty B said:

I know it wasn't a penalty per the rule book... but that was a dirty and unnecessary play by Malcolm Jenkins. 

 

I wasn't a fan of that hit on Cooks at all. 

I thought it was just a great defensive play. Cooks was doing circles on the field completely unaware and unafraid . Jenkins tried to separate him from the ball and make a big play for his team. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Boatdrinks

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I thought it was just a great defensive play. Cooks was doing circles on the field completely unaware and unafraid . Jenkins tried to separate him from the ball and make a big p,any for his team. 

Agree. It was a great defensive play.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

I'm not complaining at all with a call going against the Patriots after all of the "breaks" they have received from the officials over the years. 

 

I'd rather the calls still be legit.

 

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

I thought it was just a great defensive play. Cooks was doing circles on the field completely unaware and unafraid . Jenkins tried to separate him from the ball and make a big play for his team. 

 

It's a play that's happened many times. 

[/dev/null]

https://sports.theonion.com/flustered-father-struggling-to-answer-all-of-son-s-ques-1822736902

[Big Turk]

Well...looks like Perreira agrees with me...said they were lined up wrong and it should have been called.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mike-pereira-eagles-lined-illegally-224246088.html

Edited February 13, 2018 by matter2003

[oldmanfan]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Well...looks like Perreira agrees with me...said they were lined up wrong and it should have been called.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mike-pereira-eagles-lined-illegally-224246088.html

It is a judgment call.  The ref on the field had a better view and judged it as OK.  The WR checked with him on it.  Let it go.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

5 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Well...looks like Perreira agrees with me...said they were lined up wrong and it should have been called.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mike-pereira-eagles-lined-illegally-224246088.html

 

I'm going to repeat what a lot of people have said: that Jeffrey checked the formation with the line judge beforehand. Now, if you want to hit the Enhance button enough times to figure out down to the millimeter where someone was lined up, and it was off, then it's a no call, but it looks like the Eagles make legitimate attempts to make sure they were in an acceptable formation.

 

And of course, no one is mentioning how, on the play before that, Alshon Jeffrey was mugged in the end zone with a no call. Scoring there would have eliminated the need for the "Philly Special". Same thing on the interception, where if the refs were being ticky tak, that could have been holding. They called fairly consistently through the game, and gave the Patriot DBs plenty of leeway.

[26CornerBlitz]

31 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

 

I'm going to repeat what a lot of people have said: that Jeffrey checked the formation with the line judge beforehand. Now, if you want to hit the Enhance button enough times to figure out down to the millimeter where someone was lined up, and it was off, then it's a no call, but it looks like the Eagles make legitimate attempts to make sure they were in an acceptable formation.

 

And of course, no one is mentioning how, on the play before that, Alshon Jeffrey was mugged in the end zone with a no call. Scoring there would have eliminated the need for the "Philly Special". Same thing on the interception, where if the refs were being ticky tak, that could have been holding. They called fairly consistently through the game, and gave the Patriot DBs plenty of leeway.

 

The Patriot Lee-Way. 

[dave mcbride]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

It is a judgment call.  The ref on the field had a better view and judged it as OK.  The WR checked with him on it.  Let it go.

It's actually not really a judgment call. It's math-related, and there's a right and wrong answer. The fact that the WR checked with an official who gave him a categorically wrong answer doesn't mean that it was OK. It should have been a penalty, and it's pretty cut and dried. That said, Philly won, which is a very good thing. 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

done deal. game over.

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It's actually not really a judgment call. It's math-related, and there's a right and wrong answer. The fact that the WR checked with an official who gave him a categorically wrong answer doesn't mean that it was OK. It should have been a penalty, and it's pretty cut and dried. That said, Philly won, which is a very good thing. 

 

It's semantics.  He checked with the official that would have flagged him and he said it was okay.  And it changed nothing at all about the play. 

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It's actually not really a judgment call. It's math-related, and there's a right and wrong answer. The fact that the WR checked with an official who gave him a categorically wrong answer doesn't mean that it was OK. It should have been a penalty, and it's pretty cut and dried. That said, Philly won, which is a very good thing. 

No, actually it is not. Unless you are going to give the refs tape measures to align guys every play it is a judgment.  So no it is not cut and dried.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No, actually it is not. Unless you are going to give the refs tape measures to align guys every play it is a judgment.  So no it is not cut and dried.

He was *clearly* not on the line. It wasn't close. It was very much a cut and dry case. More importantly, though, Philly won. That's what matters in the end.

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's semantics.  He checked with the official that would have flagged him and he said it was okay.  And it changed nothing at all about the play. 

It's not semantics; it's math. The referee was in error. Regardless, it probably wouldn't have changed the outcome, and it helped Philly win. 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

He was *clearly* not on the line. It wasn't close. It was very much a cut and dry case. More importantly, though, Philly won. That's what matters in the end.

Please.  Eyeballing something is a judgment.  Actually measuring something and giving it a defined value is math.

 

My reading says they give about a half yard from the tackle.  The ref said fine and that's all that matters.

[Big C]

18 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

I thought it was just a great defensive play. Cooks was doing circles on the field completely unaware and unafraid . Jenkins tried to separate him from the ball and make a big play for his team. 

 

Yup. At that point he's not a defenseless receiver. He's running against the grain and looking up field and that's his own fault. 

[Doc]

15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It's not semantics; it's math. The referee was in error. Regardless, it probably wouldn't have changed the outcome, and it helped Philly win. 

 

Again it's a judgment call.  Had the official told Jeffery "no, you need to be up a couple feet," Jeffery would have done it and nothing else would have changed about that play.  And being a few feet back was no advantage to Philly.  Now if Jeffery didn't ask the official, then you could argue that they got away with one.  But again, being a few feet back didn't mean anything. 

 

And frankly I have no idea why that rule is in place.  Does anyone know?

[Luxy312]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Again it's a judgment call.  Had the official told Jeffery "no, you need to be up a couple feet," Jeffery would have done it and nothing else would have changed about that play.  And being a few feet back was no advantage to Philly.  Now if Jeffery didn't ask the official, then you could argue that they got away with one.  But again, being a few feet back didn't mean anything. 

 

And frankly I have no idea why that rule is in place.  Does anyone know?

 

I believe it has to do with knowing who are eligible receivers and who are not.  Speculating, but believe I read that somewhere.

[Bills of Boston]

I love how pats fans are taking pride in the fact no ones opening complaining about the refs and telling other fan bases to do the same Etc 

 

wonder where their insufferable NEXT MAN UP mantra has been?

 

oh right. It’s next man up until they lose and need an excuse. #malcolm

 

 

 

[benderbender]

On 2/5/2018 at 5:16 PM, matter2003 said:

Jeffrey had to be on the LOS as they only had 6 players lined up on the ball instead of 7...play should have been flsgged for illegal formation...

 

Guess it was Pats turn to get screwed last night by the stripes Hahahahaha.

Like this?

[Shamrock]

On 06/02/2018 at 9:16 AM, matter2003 said:

Jeffrey had to be on the LOS as they only had 6 players lined up on the ball instead of 7...play should have been flsgged for illegal formation...

 

Guess it was Pats turn to get screwed last night by the stripes Hahahahaha.

It also looks like a Pats helmet is into the neutral zone, at least shading the tip of the ball. Which is offside and an offensive free play... /penalty. 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Screw the Pats.  

 

Karma bitches!!