If the Bills get a veteran QB...........

[njbuff]

and let's say the Browns take Allen (I will almost guarantee you that Allen will wow everyone in the process).............

 

Would you want the Bills to trade up to 3 get either Rosen or Darnold? Even if the Bills get a good veteran QB?

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, njbuff said:

and let's say the Browns take Allen (I will almost guarantee you that Allen will wow everyone in the process).............

 

Would you want the Bills to trade up to 3 get either Rosen or Darnold? Even if the Bills get a good veteran QB?

 

I guess it Depends on the price...

 

but nothing that Allen does should sway any Scouts or GMs any further...

 

you cant raise a QBs grade because of a good combine... that's how you draft Blaine Gabberts of the world

 

Johnny Manziel had the best pro day ever... and did it in pads and helmet... didn't do nothing for him

 

Allen should be great in shorts and a T shirt... let's the browns take him and pass on much better QBs like Rosen and Darnold

[ProcessAccepted]

 

You've got to be careful when selecting the next franchise QB. Let's get a solid vet and not overreach in the draft.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I want the bills to trade up and get Darnold regardless. The only safe way to do that is to get to #1. I’m tired of settling for scraps here and hoping a draft goes a certain way. Go up and get the best guy for once. Not reach for some 4th round trash in round 1 like EJ. Actually get a good QB abd the best in a real class for once.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Brianmoorman4jesus

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I want the bills to trade up and get Darnold regardless. The only safe way to do that is to get to #1. I’m tired of settling for scraps here abd hoping a draft goes a certain way. Go up and get the best guy for once. Not reach for some 4th round trash in round 1 like EJ. Actually get a good QB abd the best in a real class for once.

 

It really is debatable if Darnold will be a better  QB than Rosen. Because as of today Rosen is the better QB hands down

 

you are drafting Darnold for 3 years down the road

 

You are hoping on Darnolds upside to kick in... because They both have good football IQs but Rosen has a better arm today

[ALLEN1QB]

What do you guys think about getting Nick Foles from Philadelphia? Would you give up a 2nd?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, PIP said:

What do you guys think about getting Nick Foles from Philadelphia? Would you give up a 2nd?

 

No!

[Captain Murica]

Depends on the Veteran. If you get Alex Smith/McCown then I'd say trading up to get one of those two would be good as they would only serve as a stop gap for one year. But, let's say you get Case Keenum and we sign him to a 3 year deal with a possible out after 2 years then sitting and waiting to take guys like Jackson, Rudolph, and White(not that I would want them to sit and take White)but wouldn't be bad either as they would have time to sit and develop.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, PIP said:

What do you guys think about getting Nick Foles from Philadelphia? Would you give up a 2nd?

2nd is too much. Most think a 3rd or 4th could land Alex Smith.

 

I'm not keen on Foles, but that's just me. He's not terrible but I just see a continuous cycle of trotting out other team's back-ups and portraying them as an NFL starter. 

[VirginiaMike]

If the Bills are fortunate enough to land a veteran like Alex Smith, I would say NO.  The Bill's have enough other holes (O-line, D-Tackle, Pass Rusher, linebacker, wideout) that I want to spend my draft capital in those areas.  There is alot of age on this team in some areas and if it's not addressed, it could be a steep fall.  

[MrEpsYtown]

If we sign a guy like Cousins, he instantly becomes your long term guy so no trade up or drafting a guy is necessary. If you get a guy like Alex Smith, he's older and more of a bridge, so a trade up could make sense. 

 

If McBeane believes in any of those guys he will make the trade up. If we don't trade up, I think it is a clear indication they don't love any of those guys. In the end I think we trade for Smith and trade up for Rosen, Darnold, Allen. 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

you trade up you better be 100% sure this is the long term solution and get him ready. We can add some great players who will be instant starters with picks #21,22 and  possibly our 2nd and 3rd rounders.  5 potential starters trumps a project QB any day, but losing 2-4 starters for a franchise qb is a little easier to take.

Edited January 24, 2018 by BillsRdue

[hondo in seattle]

14 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I want the bills to trade up and get Darnold regardless. The only safe way to do that is to get to #1. I’m tired of settling for scraps here and hoping a draft goes a certain way. Go up and get the best guy for once. Not reach for some 4th round trash in round 1 like EJ. Actually get a good QB abd the best in a real class for once.

 

I get the sentiment.

 

But I'd hate to pay a premium price for another disappointment.   So many 1st round QBs fail to work out.  What makes you so confident that Darnold is The Guy?

 

I'd personally rather spend a lot of draft picks on a lot of players than package draft picks to move up.  

[Stank_Nasty]

15 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

You've got to be careful when selecting the next franchise QB. Let's get a solid vet and not overreach in the draft.

I get this. but the browns didn't really do anything to reach, like trade or waste a super early pick, for johnny kegstand.

 

its not the greatest example of a team overreaching. 

[KDIGGZ]

If Rosen had Darnold's heart and leadership I would trade way the entire draft to get him. He's too flakey though. And Darnold isn't a sure thing although he's pretty close. If Darnold falls to 3 and Indy isn't greedy I think it would be a tough call. You would have to be sure this is your franchise QB for the next 10 yrs. If you are wrong you lose your job and set the team back 3 years in the process. The safe bet is to get a solid veteran and take someone at 21 like Rudolph who might be good. If not no big deal

[hondo in seattle]

16 hours ago, njbuff said:

and let's say the Browns take Allen (I will almost guarantee you that Allen will wow everyone in the process).............

 

Would you want the Bills to trade up to 3 get either Rosen or Darnold? Even if the Bills get a good veteran QB?

 

It's  hard to read between the lines but I didn't get the sense that Beane was eager to overpay to move up when interviewed the other day.

 

And I have no clue what he thinks of Rosen and Darnold.   

 

Personally, I don't watch enough college football to be confident either is worth the price.

[transplantbillsfan]

16 hours ago, njbuff said:

and let's say the Browns take Allen (I will almost guarantee you that Allen will wow everyone in the process).............

 

Would you want the Bills to trade up to 3 get either Rosen or Darnold? Even if the Bills get a good veteran QB?

 

I don't want the Bills to spend a lot of money to get a veteran QB because I want them to trade up to 3 or 4 for Rosen or Darnold, but probably Darnold.

 

My gut says that's what the Bills brass is planning right now and I suspect they'll keep Taylor on the roster til draft time to offer as part of a package to trade up to #4 with the Browns.

 

The only vet QB we might acquire and still do this with is Alex Smith since his contract will expire in one year.

[TigerJ]

In all likelihood, the Bills will sign a veteran well before the draft.  The identity of the veteran will determine their draft strategy with respect to QBs.  The more years they can anticipate the veteran starting, the lower in the draft they will be looking for a QB.

[Big C]

I feel like you need another dot in the title.

 

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I get the sentiment.

 

But I'd hate to pay a premium price for another disappointment.   So many 1st round QBs fail to work out.  What makes you so confident that Darnold is The Guy?

 

I'd personally rather spend a lot of draft picks on a lot of players than package draft picks to move up.  

 

I agree. It's best to let the pieces fall into place rather than force it. For instance, if we don't trade up for JP Losman in 2004, we'd have been able to take Aaron Rodgers with the 20th pick in 2005. 

 

We can add a vet and/or, frankly, restructure Taylor one last time (hate all you want but I bet Daboll will be able to embrace Tyrod's skill set much better than Rico) and flesh out the roster with the extra picks instead. That is the route I'd like to go, personally. But if we trade up and we hit on the guy, I wouldn't be mad.

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, kdiggz said:

If Rosen had Darnold's heart and leadership I would trade way the entire draft to get him. He's too flakey though. And Darnold isn't a sure thing although he's pretty close. If Darnold falls to 3 and Indy isn't greedy I think it would be a tough call. You would have to be sure this is your franchise QB for the next 10 yrs. If you are wrong you lose your job and set the team back 3 years in the process. The safe bet is to get a solid veteran and take someone at 21 like Rudolph who might be good. If not no big deal

I get that Darnold is a good prospect, but nobody seems to mention the 13 INTs he threw in 13 games and had 11 fumbles on top of that.  That is A LOT of turnovers for someone whom is supposed to be a top prospect.

 

Again, I am not saying that Darnold isn't one of the top QB prospects.  I am just surprised that nobody mentions the turnovers.

16 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't want the Bills to spend a lot of money to get a veteran QB because I want them to trade up to 3 or 4 for Rosen or Darnold, but probably Darnold.

 

My gut says that's what the Bills brass is planning right now and I suspect they'll keep Taylor on the roster til draft time to offer as part of a package to trade up to #4 with the Browns.

 

The only vet QB we might acquire and still do this with is Alex Smith since his contract will expire in one year.

I was with you right up to the point where you talked about trading Taylor to the Browns.  Why would the Browns want Tyrod Taylor?  They are going to draft their own QB and Taylor is not a long-term answer for any team as a starting QB.

 

[teef]

50 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

In all likelihood, the Bills will sign a veteran well before the draft.  The identity of the veteran will determine their draft strategy with respect to QBs.  The more years they can anticipate the veteran starting, the lower in the draft they will be looking for a QB.

this has been my guess as to how the bills will approach the qb position too.  it all depends how FA plays out.  

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Again, I am not saying that Darnold isn't one of the top QB prospects.  I am just surprised that nobody mentions the turnovers.

I was with you right up to the point where you talked about trading Taylor to the Browns.  Why would the Browns want Tyrod Taylor?  They are going to draft their own QB and Taylor is not a long-term answer for any team as a starting QB.

 

 

Because Josh Allen is incredibly raw and needs time on the bench, Tyrod Taylor is a helluva lot better than Kizer, and Taylor's contract would expire after 2018 so the Browns would get him for literally one year and then be free of him as Allen takes over.

 

This way the Browns would be able to sell their fanbase that they're actually trying to win in 2018 with a capable vet QB and offensive talent one would assume they would have stockpiled with all their draft picks and FA while also having the QB of the future on the roster.

 

That's why 

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Because Josh Allen is incredibly raw and needs time on the bench, Tyrod Taylor is a helluva lot better than Kizer, and Taylor's contract would expire after 2018 so the Browns would get him for literally one year and then be free of him as Allen takes over.

 

This way the Browns would be able to sell their fanbase that they're actually trying to win in 2018 with a capable vet QB and offensive talent one would assume they would have stockpiled with all their draft picks and FA while also having the QB of the future on the roster.

 

That's why 

I think you are valuing Taylor much too high.  I would not expect that the Bills could get a 5th round pick for him.

 

im not a Taylor hater, but the reason that the Bills want to replace him is why most teams would not trade for him.  Maybe someone will, but I will be surprised 

[transplantbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think you are valuing Taylor much too high.  I would not expect that the Bills could get a 5th round pick for him.

 

im not a Taylor hater, but the reason that the Bills want to replace him is why most teams would not trade for him.  Maybe someone will, but I will be surprised 

 

Uhhhh... wait... did you think I was saying it would be Taylor for the #4 overall pick?

 

If that's what you thought I was saying, I wasn't.  Taylor would be part of a package.

 

[OldTimer1960]

27 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Uhhhh... wait... did you think I was saying it would be Taylor for the #4 overall pick?

 

If that's what you thought I was saying, I wasn't.  Taylor would be part of a package.

 

No, I was just commenting that Taylor would really be a throw-in, at best equivalent to a 5th round pick or so - at least in my opinion.  

I am not saying that Taylor has no value to any team, but I wouldn't expect Cleveland to want to trade for him as a "vet bridge" for a rookie that they draft early.  Rationale is that Bills don't seem to want him in that role, why would Cleveland?  If they are looking for a veteran mentor, I don't think Taylor is really the guy for that given where his weaknesses are.  I'd think someone like Josh McCown would be a better alternative and they may not need to trade for him.

 

 

[xRUSHx]

8 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

No, I was just commenting that Taylor would really be a throw-in, at best equivalent to a 5th round pick or so - at least in my opinion.  

I am not saying that Taylor has no value to any team, but I wouldn't expect Cleveland to want to trade for him as a "vet bridge" for a rookie that they draft early.  Rationale is that Bills don't seem to want him in that role, why would Cleveland?  If they are looking for a veteran mentor, I don't think Taylor is really the guy for that given where his weaknesses are.  I'd think someone like Josh McCown would be a better alternative and they may not need to trade for him.

 

 

I do not understand how some think Tyrod will be on the team to trade considering his bonus to be paid this year and to only get a 5th rounder for that type of bonus is a complete waste of cap money IMO.

Edited January 24, 2018 by xRUSHx

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, xRUSHx said:

I do not understand how some think Tyrod will be on the team to trade considering his bonus to be paid this year and to only get a 5th rounder for that type of bonus is a complete waste of money IMO.

 

We get to find out in less than 2 months.

 

One possibility is the Bills package Taylor in a trade to a team like Cleveland for a top 5 draft pick in the first couple days of the league year so we don't pay that roster bonus. 

 

One possibility is the Bills trade Taylor by himself or as part of a package for another QB like Alex Smith with every intention of drafting a 1st round QB, too.

 

One possibility is the Bills keep Taylor, pay him his bonus, indicating that they're good with him on the team for 2018 while also waiting and seeing what unfolds on draft day and being open to all offers if the draft shakes a way they like.

 

 

I think the last possibility is the most likely, but we'll see.

[dezertbill]

We are a playoff team with some of our core being in the 30 plus age range.  

 

While our goal will be to get younger, I don't see the Bills scrapping their momentum to take a step back.  Taking a QB to play in year 1 at any point in the first round would do that, unless they really felt a guy could come in and play well game 1.   History says that's a long shot.

 

It makes all the sense in the world for the Bills to sign a veteran guy on the south side of 30 years old that can start for 6-7 years (the age most successful QB's play till these days).  That way they can use those high draft picks this year and not only shore up some much needed weaknesses, but also get younger in a number of different areas.

 

Alexander, Kyle Williams, Incognito, Wood, Shady are all guys to name a few that the Bills realize time is ticking on their careers.  Shady truly has another good year or two left but he has missed games and the Bills need to have a guy they can count on to replace him besides Tolbert.

 

If they draft a guy like Rudolph, he needs time to develop.  Bringing in a journeyman to play .500 football doesn't makes sense right now.  We are too good (funny to say that).  The only scenario would be to draft a guy like Brees who has a year or two left, but prying him away from the Saints will be impossible.

 

I only see us going after one of the FA QBs and draft four starters in the first two rounds to get this team deeper into the playoffs.

[xRUSHx]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

We get to find out in less than 2 months.

 

One possibility is the Bills package Taylor in a trade to a team like Cleveland for a top 5 draft pick in the first couple days of the league year so we don't pay that roster bonus. 

 

One possibility is the Bills trade Taylor by himself or as part of a package for another QB like Alex Smith with every intention of drafting a 1st round QB, too.

 

One possibility is the Bills keep Taylor, pay him his bonus, indicating that they're good with him on the team for 2018 while also waiting and seeing what unfolds on draft day and being open to all offers if the draft shakes a way they like.

 

 

I think the last possibility is the most likely, but we'll see.

That bonus kills most of what your saying IMO. Can not spend that kind of money in a bonus wishing a team will want him for even a 5th let alone anything else IMO.

I do agree that if they pay the bonus this team is stuck with him another season as the starter. Please get my barrel ready I am going over the falls if that happens because I lose all faith in this new staff.

4 minutes ago, dezertbill said:

We are a playoff team with some of our core being in the 30 plus age range.  

 

While our goal will be to get younger, I don't see the Bills scrapping their momentum to take a step back.  Taking a QB to play in year 1 at any point in the first round would do that, unless they really felt a guy could come in and play well game 1.   History says that's a long shot.

 

It makes all the sense in the world for the Bills to sign a veteran guy on the south side of 30 years old that can start for 6-7 years (the age most successful QB's play till these days).  That way they can use those high draft picks this year and not only shore up some much needed weaknesses, but also get younger in a number of different areas.

 

Alexander, Kyle Williams, Incognito, Wood, Shady are all guys to name a few that the Bills realize time is ticking on their careers.  Shady truly has another good year or two left but he has missed games and the Bills need to have a guy they can count on to replace him besides Tolbert.

 

If they draft a guy like Rudolph, he needs time to develop.  Bringing in a journeyman to play .500 football doesn't makes sense right now.  We are too good (funny to say that).  The only scenario would be to draft a guy like Brees who has a year or two left, but prying him away from the Saints will be impossible.

 

I only see us going after one of the FA QBs and draft four starters in the first two rounds to get this team deeper into the playoffs.

So you are saying they are better off doing what many GM/HCs do and try to win now, sadly that gets most of them fired and this team continuing the same long haul fall to the next record breaking of no playoff seasons IMO.

[Success]

I’m so torn on this.  I love the draft picks we have, and we can probably build a great team if we stay put.

 

But after so many years of getting owned by Brady, I’d really love to take a shot at a QB who has a good chance of being great.  A great QB can cover so many other flaws.  With an average QB, everything else has to almost be perfect, all the time.

 

I trust the process right now.  But I’d be more excited if that process had us trading up for a guy like Darnold.

[Fadingpain]

18 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

I do not understand how some think Tyrod will be on the team to trade considering his bonus to be paid this year and to only get a 5th rounder for that type of bonus is a complete waste of cap money IMO.

Aside from the fact that he has no trade value around the league.

 

[ndirish1978]

Either way this draft will either set us up for the next 5 years or tank us for a minimum of 3.

 

I'd LOVE it if we could figure out an Eagles-style trade up, to get Darnold and no t waste all our draft capital for him, but it's unlikely. I'd love it even more if we could just pay Cousins and draft a crapload of good players. Heck, we could trade up to 14-15 and get a premium DT/LB and still have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds.

 

Most likely - we get someone like Alex Smith and draft the 3rd or 4rth best QB in a minor trade up scenario where we lose a 2. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by ndirish1978

[transplantbillsfan]

51 minutes ago, xRUSHx said:

That bonus kills most of what your saying IMO. Can not spend that kind of money in a bonus wishing a team will want him for even a 5th let alone anything else IMO.

I do agree that if they pay the bonus this team is stuck with him another season as the starter. Please get my barrel ready I am going over the falls if that happens because I lose all faith in this new staff.

 

Nah, I could see them paying the $6 million bonus and then seeing something happen in the draft they really didn't expect in a good way and throwing Taylor in as part of a trade package.

 

As for the Taylor being a starter again in 2018.  It might still happen, but that'll be his last year in Buffalo.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

It really is debatable if Darnold will be a better  QB than Rosen. Because as of today Rosen is the better QB hands down

 

you are drafting Darnold for 3 years down the road

 

You are hoping on Darnolds upside to kick in... because They both have good football IQs but Rosen has a better arm today

 

....surrendering MAJOR capital for ONE guy with a multitude of holes to fill makes no sense to me and I don't see this gang as "riverboat gamblers" willing to roll BIG dice like that....strictly opinion.......

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....surrendering MAJOR capital for ONE guy with a multitude of holes to fill makes no sense to me and I don't see this gang as "riverboat gamblers" willing to roll BIG dice like that....strictly opinion.......

 

Oh I don't think we are trading up to the top 5

 

Im just saying the best pure passer in the draft is Rosen

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Oh I don't think we are trading up to the top 5

 

Im just saying the best pure passer in the draft is Rosen

 

 

....I know....you're one of the SANE ones around here....a minority.............

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, TigerJ said:

In all likelihood, the Bills will sign a veteran well before the draft.  The identity of the veteran will determine their draft strategy with respect to QBs.  The more years they can anticipate the veteran starting, the lower in the draft they will be looking for a QB.

 

4 hours ago, teef said:

this has been my guess as to how the bills will approach the qb position too.  it all depends how FA plays out.  

 

I agree and have said the same thing.  Too many people saying things like will just pick up so and so if we can't move up and get so and so.

FA/Trades will determine what happens because of a simple thing..................it comes first.

OBD has to have all it's ducks in a row for the first few days of the new year.

 

15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Nah, I could see them paying the $6 million bonus and then seeing something happen in the draft they really didn't expect in a good way and throwing Taylor in as part of a trade package.

 

As for the Taylor being a starter again in 2018.  It might still happen, but that'll be his last year in Buffalo.

 

You have said you can see the Bills picking up Alex Smith in a trade.................I don't think OBD has Smith under contract for 17 million and Tyrod under contract

with a 6 million Bonus for 18 million hoping to trade him later.  IF they pay TT 6 million in bonus he will start next year.

The thing is, OBD's odds of paying TT the bonus are very slim.

[Jay_Fixit]

20 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

It really is debatable if Darnold will be a better  QB than Rosen. Because as of today Rosen is the better QB hands down

 

you are drafting Darnold for 3 years down the road

 

You are hoping on Darnolds upside to kick in... because They both have good football IQs but Rosen has a better arm today

Hands down? Nope.

 

The only thing Rosen does objectively better than Darnold is look better throwing. And possibly more arm strength. 

 

That’s it.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

You have said you can see the Bills picking up Alex Smith in a trade.................I don't think OBD has Smith under contract for 17 million and Tyrod under contract

with a 6 million Bonus for 18 million hoping to trade him later.  IF they pay TT 6 million in bonus he will start next year.

The thing is, OBD's odds of paying TT the bonus are very slim.

 

I've said I can see picking up Alex Smith in a trade, yes.

 

If we do there's no way in hell Taylor's still on our roster, obviously.  I could see Taylor and another player or a draft pick being swapped for Smith.

 

Sorry, thought it was pretty obvious that if I thought we were to acquire Smith, Taylor would no longer be a Bill.  But that would have to happen in the first few days of the league year before the roster bonus is due.

 

But if they pay TT the 6 million bonus, I disagree that OBD no longer considers or actively tries to trade him if it's for a draft pick.  At that point it would not be for a vet QB like Smith.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Hands down? Nope.

 

The only thing Rosen does objectively better than Darnold is look better throwing. And possibly more arm strength. 

 

That’s it.

 

Most scouts and execs will admit that Rosen is the better QB today

 

he also has great pocket presence and throws a great ball to all levels. He is more accurate than Darnold . Completion % isn't the whole story

 

UCLA was top 10 in the country in drops 

 

I love Darnold but he just led Division 1 in turnovers and can admit Rosen is better today 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Buffalo716

[transplantbillsfan]

28 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....surrendering MAJOR capital for ONE guy with a multitude of holes to fill makes no sense to me and I don't see this gang as "riverboat gamblers" willing to roll BIG dice like that....strictly opinion.......

 

Disagree.

 

I think the main reason the Bills traded down in last year's draft and traded Watkins and Darby was to accrue the ammunition to trade up in this draft for a QB.

 

In terms of value (if you're going by one of those "charts") to get into the top 5 the Bills would have to give up 2 1sts this year (which we have) and 1 2nd (which we have 2 of).  Isn't it worth going up and getting your future Franchise QB (assuming McBeane are that much in love with one of these guys) and being left with "only" 1 pick in the 2nd-4th rounds and 2 picks in the 5th?  If this past season proved anything for me it's that coaching and system trumps talent but having that coach and system ALONG WITH a great QB can make you a serious contender for as long as those 3 things remain in tact.